I wanted to come in and snark, but I don't know if I can. The ADA has serious teeth, and I think White Castle is going to lose.

Most places don't say "Open 24 hours," they say "Drive-Thru open 24 hours." If that was what the sign said, she doesn't have a case. They aren't allowed to serve people without cars from the drive thru window for liability reasons.

I was going to say "cue the they-don't-have-to-serve-handicapped-people", but it looks like it already started.

She is a terrible person.

@youbastid: Yep. I actually tried to go through the JITB drive through in a shopping cart once (college) and was turned away rather quickly.

Then I crashed it on a curb and broke my arm.

what about the speed bumps in the parking lot? Her Rascal Mobility Scooter could bottom out on one of those...

I will be sad to see if there is a genuine disability issue here -- they will serve her, if she's in a car. Just like someone who is not disabled.

Okay, now that I've had time to actually think about it ...

It seems as if this brings up an issue bigger than ADA: is it right (or legal) to have hours of the day in which you only serve people in cars? What about people not in cars? Why do I need a car to eat at your establishment?

I distinctly remember going through the McDonalds drive-thru at the age of 12. They didn't seem to have a problem with it.

But are they really "discriminating against customers who can't drive"? They are only able to serve vehicles after 11pm, and there's no reason this woman can't be a passenger in a vehicle and be served. I'm a strong supporter of people with disabilities, but this is a little too much.

Of course, it would be great if drive thrus served people on foot after the dining rooms are closed, and then we wouldn't have this issue, but.....

This should not be an ADA issue, it's a safety issue. Cars and People sharing the same window service tend to lead to all sorts of problems.

How do you "line up"? car person person car car? and if the car behind a person moves up a little bit, and hits the person in front of them?

Ok, 2 lines then .. a people line and a car line. so 5 people on one side, and 5 cars on the other ... who is first? who is second?

As far as the scooter being considered a "vehicle" or not? Does it have a license plate and require a drivers license? So much for that argument.

I really don't see why they can not serve people without cars. Seems a bit arbitrary, unless of course as youbastid stated above it is for liability reasons. Which is usually in and of itself a retarded arbitrary reason. Just another example of how dependent our society is on vehicles.

@TCama: But you were 12 and couldn't legally drive, so what were they going to do - tell a kid he has to go home and get mom and dad to drive him back to McDonalds?

"You can try to butter me up all you want to. Free meals ain't going to work," said Wade.

Why do some people make it so dang easy to laugh at them? I really didn't want to...

This does not seem like discrimination to me. Seems more like a liability issue.

Discrimination would be if she came in a handi-van and they turned her away.

I mean, imagine the drunks in cars from the bar after 2am behind her in line at the drive thru.

Other than the liability White Castle would have if she got ran over in their drive thru I don't see why they wouldn't serve her. Maybe they just didn't want her to come back and think she could do this every night? They should have served her then and requested that she call ahead next time and they would have someone meet her at the door and then she wouldn't need to go through the drive thru.

It doesn't seem very safe to me to be in a motorized wheelchair/scooter in a lane that is designed for car traffic - maybe that's the crux of the issue here.

If they have the same policy against motorcycles and bicycles, and a good reason for it, then they might have a leg to stand on; otherwise no, they are going to lose.

Could someone on a motorcycle get service? What about a Vespa?

First the Popeye's incident and now this? There used to be a time when MN foolishness/ignorance was ignored by the MSM and now we're BEGGING for the attention.

We have a bad enough rep as it is! (Thanks to the Coen brothers ;-)

Since she can't walk and has to use the scooter to get around, to me using it would effectively be the same as walking up to the drive thru, and it should fall under the same policies/laws that someone who walked up would. If they were serving walk up customers, and gets refused, then she would have a case.

@david.c: Look at it this way:

The restaurant most likely has drive-thru-only hours because they don't want to keep their dining room open during those hours. So they only serve people who don't need a dining room. Makes sense, doesn't it?

So if I don't need a dining room, does it matter what vehicle (if any) I'm in/on?

@hillsrovey:
...then you would have people being hit by cars as they rounded the building, leading to other lawsuits.

@labeled:
How is this even an ADA case? Not being able to drive isn't a disability, otherwise everyone under the age of 16 would be considered disabled.

She could have had a friend drive her, she could have taken a taxi, or she could have picked up some tasties from the supermarket.

Her motorized scooter is not designed to be on the road. The drive-thru is technically like a road, designed for cars. You can't ride your bike/scooter down a highway or in the middle of the road, so you can't ride it in a drive-thru. If they had let her order, and then someone drove up and didn't see her because she is so low to the ground and she got hit, she would be suing just the same.

@Nayrlladnar: Yes, because both are classified as vehicles and you have to have a license and motorcycle training (in the US anyway) to even ride a Vespa.

@TCama: How long ago were you 12? No drive thru allows that nowadays.

But yes, it is right and legal to have hours of the day in which you serve only people in cars. These places used to NOT be open 24 hours. They'd close at 10 or midnight and that was it. Then they found that if they closed the dining room, A) They didn't have to pay as much to keep the place maintained, B) They didn't have to pay as many people to work, and C) They didn't have to deal with drunken idiots and drug addicts wandering in at 3AM.

So what would you prefer, only open to cars or not open at all? Because that's the alternative.

Degenerative Disc 'Disease' isn't really a disease at all. It's caused by stress on the spine, frequently caused by obesity. I fucking HATE people like this.

@UnicornMaster: Yeah, damn those fat lazy people ... with degenerative arthritis ...

@m4ximusprim3: Funny, I did the same exact thing, except through a Krispy Kreme. They told me to get out of there and bribed me with a free donut. Then my friend pushed me down the parking lot, Jackass style. I crashed into an island and got nice and bloody. Maybe I should sue the Home Depot that we got the cart from for not properly keeping me from doing something stupid by leaving carts unattended.

Isn't it drive thru-only when it is dark outside...doesn't this lady worry about her own safety?@hillsrovey:

There is no reason she couldn't be the driver in a vehicle with hand controls either; unless she's legally blind in which case maybe she shouldn't be driving a scooter either.

And how is her "disorder" keeping her from driving? If she can drive an electric mobility vehicle, why is she unable to drive?

She really said "Madder than fish grease". That's fantastic.

@youbastid: Just 8 years ago, actually. Maybe it was just the particular McDonald's?

I'd honestly prefer an option in which anyone who doesn't need a dining room can get food. Here's an idea: have a window that one can only walk to. No drive-thru, just a ... walk-thru. If you're in your car, park it and walk up to the window.

Just an idea.

@TCama: You walked through? If that's the case, 99.99999% of fast food joints have a sign saying no walk through customers in the drive through. Like someone said above, it's a liability thing. Maybe they made an exception for you, or maybe it was some high school kid that didn't care. I walked through a McD's at 3 in the morning one time, and the guy let us through, probably because he was working at McD's at 3 in the morning and didn't really care or have life goals and losting his job there really wouldn't be the end of the world...

@TCama: Restaurants usually limit the food service to the drive through because they are disinclined to have people loitering inside without much purchasing going on. Imagine a group of teenagers with the argument, "You can't kick us out, we ordered fries" and staying there for hours. Similarly, homeless people could use coins to buy one item and stay there for hours.

They recognize that there is business to be done, but by limiting it to a controlled window, they view it as more profitable and safer. THey can also use fewer staff.

Is it legal? Why not? As long as the refusal to serve is based on something legal, yes. So they could refuse to serve you for not being in a vehicle, but they couldn't refuse to serve you because of your ethnicity.

It may not be your preferred business practice, but they're willing to take the risk.

@William Brinkman: Pretty much. Yup.

I reckon the liability argument does win out, but it's still a shame. What's the point of a White Castle that's inaccessible to the inebriated? A friend of mine hitchhiked through a White Castle drive-thru a few weeks ago, just so he could place an order.

At least she has a valid reason for using the scooter. If this was going to be another case of lazy fatties trying to be even lazier I was going to .

That said, a motorized scooter ain't exactly a motor vehicle. I think some organizations actually classify them as "pedestrian devices" or somesuch to differentiate between them and cars. This is a huge safety and liability issue, which is what this lady just can't seem to understand. When people and cars start to occupy the same space, bad things happen.

If she somehow manages to win this case i'm going to go straight to my nearest wendy's, get in the drive-thru, get denied service, get pissed, file suit against them using this case as precedent, and when I win I'll sue myself for whatever winnings I have for being that. freaking. stupid.

GAH.

I hope she looses.

BTW: Penn and Teller's ADA episode is a classic.

@ssaoi: Does she look hungry to you?

It seems that they could (should?) have found an alternate way of accommodating the patron if the drive-thru only serves vehicles after a certain time and she was in a legitimate situation of being unable to operate a vehicle. Compassionate service is always the better choice, seems to me.

The issue does not seem to be just about using the drive-thru, but about those that are disabled being unable to access services during the business's operating hours.

As a wheelchair user for non-fatty ass reasons, I agree that people who eat themselves into a wheelchair are an unfortunate drain on society, the health care industry, and themselves and I do not think a scooter or wheelchair should be served at a drive thru for safety reasons. This is no more discriminating than it would be against people who don't own a car at all.

@labeled: The fact that she is 'disabled' is irrelevant - she could have been Lance fucking Armstrong riding a scooter and the issue would still be that their policy is cars only.

Anti-"discrimination" legislature is a waste of taxpayer dollars and government time. Businesses should be motivated to serve the most possible people because it gets them more money. Discrimination in hiring? Kick people out of your club? Lose business from the people you kick out and anyone else who doesn't want to put up with your shit.

whitecastle will WIN.

@TCama: What happened to "management reserves the right to refuse service to anyone" ?? Being an occasional cyclist, this irks the crap out of me, but it's their restaurant. If the business doesn't want to serve you unless you're in a car, that's their right. Isn't it?

@pecan 3.14159265:
If a moped/scooter is less than 50cc you don't need a license (at least here in NC)

@acasto: Two reasons: One, because people in cars have a car door between them and the window, which provides some level of protection for the employees, and second because they don't want vagrant pedestrians asking people for handouts or assaulting their drive-through customers.

It's really a safety issue.

Of course, that really doesn't apply here - if the OP is fully disabled (but then, how would they know) there probably is no safety issue.

@acasto: Ever seen what a car does to a person upon even the lightest of impacts? Not pretty. Ever seen what a person does to a car upon impact? Maybe scuff the wax a bit.

Once you start mixing occupied/mobile cars with pedestrians you open up all kindsa bad juju for the meat popsicles.

@AmberFromAr:

Now, that being said, I'm not sure Wade is a sympathetic figure for this dispute.....

@TCama: I walked through a Taco Bell drive-thru about 10 years ago. The one on Addison near Wrigley Field in Chicago. After some qualms, they served me.

I wasn't even madder than fish grease. I was just drunk as a skunk.