Over at MSN Money there’s an interesting article about the tyranny of cheap crap that we, as a people, are accustomed to living under. Why do we buy a coat every year instead of one high quality coat that will last many years? Why do we buy crappy kitchen knives that go dull and become dangerous? Do we enjoy shopping so much that we’re content to keep rebuying the same stuff?
From MSN Money:
Part of the issue is in the market itself, with the spread of mass production and wide availability of consumer credit. But consumers are also less knowledgeable, explains Paco Underhill, president and CEO of market research consultancy Envirosell and author of “Why We Buy: The Science of Shopping.”
Americans in their 20s and 30s are now at least one generation removed from the era of homemade clothing and hand-crafted wood furniture, Underhill says. “In the 1950s, 90% of homes had sewing machines, which means women knew something about how clothes were put together. They could look at something in the store and tell if was of good construction or crappy construction,” he says. “In my office, I don’t know anyone who has bought a custom suit. They don’t know the difference between off-the-rack and custom.”
This reminds me of a post we did awhile back that talked about the buying habits of millionaires. They buy things gently used or they buy high quality new merchandise. They don’t waste money on cheap crap. I’m not a millionaire, but you don’t need to be in order to shop smart. The MSN Money article offers some tips on which items to buy “cheap” and which ones not to. Here are a few:
* Mattress: SPLURGE. You sit, sleep and God knows what else on this item. Get a good one.
* Men’s dress shirt: SKIMP. If your suit is well-tailored and the tie spectacular, the shirt will be an afterthought.
* Chef’s knife: SPLURGE. One 8-inch chef’s knife is all you need.
It’s good advice, but we don’t think you should think of it as “splurging.” It’s not irresponsible or decadent to buy a quality item that you can use for decades at a reasonable price. (Of course, just because a product is expensive doesn’t mean it is high quality…) And remember, if an item is high quality, sometimes can buy it used!
Which products do you “invest” in for the long term?
Should you skimp . . . or splurge? [MSNMoney]
(Photo: big-film )
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@zeroaxs: Knives have a couple of things to look for. First, anything with a wooden handle is right out. Today, the best knives are made with a plastic/composite handle. The next thing to look for is called the tang. that is the depth the blade extends into the handle. A “full tang” is best meaning it extends all the way to the base of the handle. Sometimes you can see it (like in a Cut-Co knife, sometimes you can’t (wustof of Henkel) but high quality knives will always advertise this feature on the packaging. (or if buying from a blade shop, the salesman will be able to tell you.) NExt thing are rivets. If the knife has rivets you want them to be nickel, not steel. They will last longer and wont corrode or break as quickly. If the knife doesn’t have rivets (again, Hinkel or Wustof) then you OK too. Look for “carbon-stainless” Steel which is the highest quality steel type. Both high carbon and rust resistant, it will hold it’s edge well without rusting, and is an excellent home-chef alternative to high-carbon varieties. Also, look for “forged” steel not “stamped or pressed” steel. Sometimes it’s difficult to find these days but the extra will payout big over the lifetime of the knife.
A really good starting knife if you are looking to buy that “one perfect knife” is a Santuko style, or a similar “french chef” Both will be 7-10 inches and will be flat 80% up the blade from the handle and then round up to form a sharp tip, This is a great knife to begin with because it is very easy to handle and does about 75-85% of anything you will ever need a knife for anyway.
@Crabfeast:
@bonzombiekitty:
I’ve got to disagree with that. I make sushi and I have a special knife just for that. I wouldn’t dare cut some things with it, because it must remain razor sharp.
@Shrink_Ray_Bandit: way to close your tags idiot.
The answer to this is very simple: Companies make more money when you have to replace your stuff every 10 months rather than every 10 years. It’s a very deliberate tactic by businesses.
To make products of TOO high a quality would all but eliminate the prospect of repeat customers which is what every business thrives on.
I’d splurge on: Pots/pans, knives, messenger bag/man purse, clothing, mattress, couch, table, in home laptop repair warranty w/ accident protection, phone repair/replacement insurance, food, car/transportation, appliances
I’d spend a moderate amount on: Home Entertainment, PC (build it myself), Laptop, cell phone / plan, gadgets
The things I’d splurge on all make my life more comfortable/easier. I would see the benefits of these things daily, unlike a Voodoo laptop which (although nicer than my Dell) wouldn’t be exponentially better than my decently specc’d laptop. If you buy quality bags/clothes/appliances/furniture/mattresses/etc they might just last you the rest of your life. Other stuff will be outdated in a few years and there’s no point.
Many busy people are given choice-less options when buying. They are offered one unrealistic extreme and then two crappy affordable alternatives. They make do while yearning for the ‘good’ option. This means they buy twice because they allowed themselves to be rushed.
I learned in the early Eighties to skimp on natural fibers. When times are tight, more people avoid dry-cleaning bills. Great pieces of clothing are donated to resale shops because people cannot iron or hand wash. This means that it’s now time to treasure hunt.
I splurge on food because I have time to prepare it. If I worked a 60 hour week I’d go back to cheaper frozen food.
I have three pairs of dress shoes that 1. are at least ten years old 2. have been resoled 3. are conservative (no square or pointy toes) 4. Cost more than comparables, but were not outrageous.
I also have some Gucci, Prada and Ferragamo mistakes thrown in the back of the closet. I paid too much to throw them out, but I’ll probably never wear them again.
I sell used furniture for a living. Shit furniture has been with us forever – I still see 1800′s versions of Ikea every once in a while. Price has very little to do with quality and more to do with manufactured trend. If you HAVE to have mid-century modern, you will pay more for high and low quality pieces than any other period. You have to look at joints and structural materials (like the person examining seams). There are wonderful bargains out there. Great pieces are still being created. It takes time, though.
@Balentius and @miramesa: and other people who are looking for a really good pair of shoes that will last a year or more. SAS Shoes are hard to beat (and no, I do not work for them!) They were recommended by my podiatrist (got a bunch of things wrong with my feet) and I’ve been a customer for about, oh, 15 years. They are like walking on air, very solidly-made, classic styles, and hand-sewn out of San Antonio, Texas. They run around $100-150 but they really will last a long time. They make very comfortable shoes, unlike a lot of cheaper women’s shoes. They also have a great reputation (think Costco) for treating their employees well and keeping them happy. The two women who helped us try on shoes were employees for 17 years and 28 years respectively, gushed about working there, and gave us a bunch of free shoelaces.
In short, they’re as solid and time-tested as the clothes from J. Crew, Banana Republic, LL Bean, and Land’s End. My spouse did merchandise testing out of college – this was ten years ago, but soft testing felt that Land’s End and Banana Republic were two of the best brands to go with. Old Navy was pretty crummy, but Gap (which owns them) middle of the road. I have secondhand clothes I’ve bought from LL Bean and J. Crew that have lasted for years.
years ago my mother got me an inexpensive ‘tomato knife’ for $2 at a discount store. i wish it had a brand name on it so i could track them down. once i was using it to slice ham and accidentally cut through the bone with it.
insanely good knife, never seen another one like it anywhere. would love to buy them for everyone i know.
but i got lucky. usually a $2 knife isn’t worth using more than a few times
i used to skimp on shoes but after thinking about a pair of hiking boots [timberland] i have owned since 1992, the last time i had to buy shoes i skipped payless [$5 shoes, lasted 8 months] and instead i went for a pair of clarks. at $100 it seems expensive up front [expensive to me anyway] but according to the company’s history, i can reasonably expect them to last ten years. plus, they feel wonderful
good pots and pans are a dream to own. i inherited my grandmother’s ‘revereware’ and aside from the copper being a little worn off the bottom, they have been around since the 40′s and look [and function] better than the saucepan i bought a couple of years ago
most of the clothes i buy at goodwill/salvation army/cause for paws thrift stores ARE brand name. some with the tags still on. the good quality stuff actually lasts long enough to be donated instead of getting thrown away.
the things i never ever skimp on:
bandaids
toilet paper
the stuff that keeps my hair from being a frizzy nightmare
I hope this has been covered… but I can’t read all of the fluff.
I covered it in the comments about REI.
I have yet to buy an expensive pair of boots that outlasted, on a price-performance scale, a cheap pair of boots ($50 random sears boots: more than 4 years. $150 Timberlands: 1-1.5 years). The same goes for a lot of other items, as well. I have pairs of generic khakis that have outlasted dockers (gifts) by many years, and cost less than half as much. I have numerous shirts that have outlasted various “name brand” (again, gifts) shirts by the same margins – hell, I have polo shirts from ten years ago that look and feel far better than any of the $30-$40 shirts I’ve been given, and they only cost $10-$15.
And that’s not the least of it. I pay $50 for heavily-used CRTs and get 2-3 years out of them, while I see people buying new LCDs all the time because their $200+ LCD has broken and they can’t wait 2 weeks to a month for warranty service, or the LCD has just gone out of the warranty period.
The problem is that price is not tied to “quality,” price is more often tied to “whatever we think you’ll pay for it.”
@RabbitDinner:
A good suit goes a long way. I have a Brioni that I bought at a thrift store for $12.
Most I ever spent on clothes is $25 for a lined Burberry trench.
Shoes I buy new.
The most glaring example of Americans buying crap is the fact that over 90 percent of computers run Windows.
@Eyebrows McGee:
Then, for the love of God, people, TAKE CARE OF YOUR LEATHER. Your purses, shoes, coats will last five times as long if you treat and protect the leather once a year. (It’s skin, it needs moisturizer.)
You just made my day, but now the quote “it rubs the lotion on its skin” keeps running through my mind.
And I definitely agree about the footwear. When I was 18 I bought a pair of standard eight-eye Dr. Marten’s boots for about $100, which to me was a hell of a lot of money to be spending on footwear at that age. I wore those boots practically every single day for five years before the creased leather at the base of my toes finally cracked and gave way, showing a peek of my socks. During that time I worked many retail jobs and walking was my primary mode of transportation. I was so happy with how well those boots held up that I didn’t bat an eyelash when I spent the money to replace them with an identical pair. The boots are still $100, and to me $25 a year for super-comfortable footwear is tough to beat. On top of that, all they needed was a little cleaning and shoe polish to keep them from looking scruffy.
@SkokieGuy: desccribed it well-the lastest and greatest mentality.
Everybody wants everything.Everybody wants to be hip and cool along with items they desire.
But the statistic on sewing machines is more telling than knowing how to sew.It also shows the willingness of the average US consumer to be more self reliant and repair things and not just throw them out creating a disposable mentality.Now a days you have people hiring people to do anything from screaming at you to workout or figure out a 1040ez form.
Self reliance=survival but since the basics of survival seem taken care of I think people still need to hunt for something-a bargain in this case.
@atrixe: You have heard the song by the Greenskeepers based on that scene, I hope? If not, here’s the video:
And yes, that’s Ted Levine, the lieutenant from Monk, as Buffalo Bill. Awesomeness abounds.
asymitric information.
Do I buy x for 10 dollars or y for 100 dollars? For all I know they might both last just as long. Why don’t I got with x?
@Powerlurker: I agree to a point on tvs,the problems with tv service was I think things like length of down time combined with price help reduce the amount of service wanted.It all goes back to instant gratification.
What scares me is that I’ve read a lot of things where people are having trouble getting 2-3 year old tv’s fixed because of lack of parts or expensive parts-usually a board not manufactured anymore.That’s a load of crap,to me the manufacturer should have to make critical parts for more than a year or two.Sell the patent for it if you don’t want to manufacture it anymore.
But then you have planned obsolesence which is 3-5 years which by coincidence is the average payment schedule for many items.As soon as your ‘old’ is bought and paid for it’s ‘time’ for a new one.Take cars for example,I don’t think you can even get anything longer than 5 years of financing and by the 5th year is when things start wearing out because of age and not miles.
Planned obsolesence makes it tougher for service people to keep up as well which slows them down or takes them out of an entire sector of the business.
Well having worked in retail for a bit here’s why
1) they don’t see things as a cost per use. Why pay $1-1.25 for a 12oz can of soda when you can get a 2 liter for the same price? Price is what you pay…cost is what you pay per use or per time.
2) they don’t know where to find good things. I still know people that hardly use the internet.
3) Most good quality products are NOT sold in major retailers and definatly aren’t at “the mall”
Here’s some things I do and don’t.
1) don’t have an expensive hobby. Golf and skiing come to mind immediatly. It’s ok as a hobby but for God sake look how involved half this stuff is!
2) DO find out how to get things free. Libraries have passes to museums and you can access free dvd’s and cd’s etc
3) don’t get tied up in contracts if you don’t use things that much. I have a prepaid crap cell. ALL I want to do is make a call and send a text…PERIOD. There’s enough wifi in the towns around me to access the net…where I go to school is one of the largest wifi hotspots in the state anyway
4) DO maintain things that are important. Cars obviously but even little things add up. Heck I’ve cleaned my sneakers…nearly look new. If your inside then don’t wear them…less wearing means they’ll stay new longer. Take care of anything that costs money to run
5) Learn to cook more…it’s cheaper than eating at places. Even fast food can add up…$5/day is $25 a week is $100 a month is $1,200 a year! If you do eat try to avoid the liquids as they simply spike up the salt to get you to drink more at more $$$
6) Invest in yourself before anything else…education, eating right, exercise, maybe join a gym
7) network to get more things free. I have a family member that works at a office coffee place. I won’t have to buy coffee again. Plenty of retailers have employee discounts and that can add up etc.
Americans aren’t the only ones who buy cheap crap. There is a plethora of cheap stuff in every country in the world. In Japan, 99 yen shops are everywhere and stuffed with cheap Chinese goods.
Also, I agree with encouraging people to spend more on quality items that endure the test of time. However, I disagree with the assertion that people don’t know quality and that’s why they buy crap. There is a downward spiral that comes with cheap goods and low wages. It’s all well and good to tell someone making $8 an hour to buy a good knife, but he’s got $10 in his pocket now when he needs the knife and the one you’re recommending may cost $15-$20. If you’re poor and you need a knife, knowing that you can buy a cheap one for a buck and still buy a gallon of milk and some bread and still have change in your pocket is going to push your to choose crap over better quality.
The Consumerist featured an article just before this one about how joblessness has just increased and wages are flat. Americans are losing ground against inflation. The poor are getting poorer by the day. They’re going to buy cheap because they have to survive in the short-term and lack the economic breathing room to invest in custom-made suits and high quality kitchen knives.
Sometimes the people who theorize about these issues are so far removed from the realities of the poor and working poor (who are the biggest consumers of low quality items) that they come off as not having a clue about how things are in the real world.
Electronics: Splurge: If it lasts a long time, and I don’t have to rebuy items and dispose of them properly, it not only saves me money, but it also saves me time. I actually don’t really enjoy getting new computers and iPods – it’s too much of a time sink. Buy good stuff – Apple, HP, Epson, APC, Western Digital, Motorola, JVC, Sennheiser, Wacom, any Harman International products (JBL, Harman Kardon, Infinity), and Logitech are all good bets.
Shipping: Splurge: If it doesn’t arrive in a million pieces, and the shipment isn’t delayed over and over again, it’s worth the couple of dollars. I personally use DHL or Federal Express for these reasons.
Food: Skimp Buy what’s inexpensive or on sale, but don’t always do bargain basement, especially if it isn’t up to par.
Gasoline: Skimp: Get it where it’s cheap. It’s all the same stuff no matter where it’s purchased.
Furniture: Get name brand stuff, but don’t spend too much on it.
Clothing: Whatever is on sale as long as it looks nice. I’m cheap.
Spending a lot of money for quality requires you to trust the company providing the high-quality good, unless you can really tell the difference on your own (i.e. inspect the stitching on that shirt, look at the construction of that table, etc). Since more of the things we buy have hidden microchips and whatnot, making the device more complicated, it’s harder than ever to inspect an item and determine if it’s of good quality. That puts one in the position of trusting the company…but those big corporations have made a bad name for themselves, creating an air of suspicion that they’re all out to screw us whenever possible. If you can get a kitchen knife for $5, therefore, a $100 knife is going to immediately set off alarm bells: possible scam. Throw in the fact that it’s hard to quantify quality: is the $100 knife really 20x better than the $5 knife?
@satoru: heh. Wedding flowers.
When a close friend of mine got married, we bought 4doz long-stem roses in red and white for about a hundred bucks. Then we made the bouquets and corsages ourselves. The process could have been a little more organized
but it saved the bride buckets of money.
/planning to elope one of these days
Also on computers in this new age:
Learn to put one together yourself or have someone knowledgeable that you
trust put one together for you. If you buy component based and just upgrade
the parts that need as you go you end up spending ~50% for ~200% of the
performance vs. retail, with generally higher quality components if you
research what to look for. And although they are a bit daunting at first,
computers are basically like really expensive LEGO sets where the only real
worry is not delivering a static charge to any of the components while
working on it.
Another thing to chew on, if you’re running a computer that’s a couple years
old and it’s starting to feel a little sluggish, have someone experienced
(preferably someone who’s not out completely for your money like a lot of
these big chain computer shops, pc techs are a lot like car mechanics in
their variability) look at it before just tossing it out and getting a new
one. They’ll be able to identify if the computer’s just ‘sick’ and needs a
software ‘doctor’ session or if it could improve dramatically in its
performance by just putting $100-$200 into a chokepoint in your hardware.
(Often times it’s RAM (memory), that’s not always someone just trying to
sell you junk.) One of my pet peeves on the geek side of things is seeing
otherwise great computers hobble along on one leg.
Personally, I have a “buy it once” rule for all of the ‘durables’ around the house (furniture-like items). Meaning: save until you have enough money to buy something that is built well enough that you will not need to buy it again. For example, a solid wood desk and bookshelves (no laminates under ANY conditions, no matter how much we like the piece) and a couch we paid $4k for 8 years ago — seems like a lot, but the couch has a solid oak frame with furniture quality joinery, etc. Eight years later, still solid. Of course, if you’re going to follow this philosophy, you need to keep two things in mind: 1) don’t purchase trendy looking items (they may be functionally sound after 8 years, but you’ll be wondering “What the hell was a I thinking?”), and 2) you still need to take care of them (i.e., clean them regularly and try not to spill your Cap’n Crunch all over them. Generally, I follow the same philosophy with shoes: don’t buy trendy, buy classic (or at worse non-descript) high cost, high quality shoes that have sewn on soles and con be re-soles repeated (I have one pair of Allen Edmonds that has been re-soled 3 or 4 times and the uppers look great). Those re-soles cost me $40 or so each, so not a huge savings but . . . very nice looking pair of shoes. Same with luggage. We buy Briggs & Reilly which is pretty darn expensive, but they have a “repair/replace it for any reason for life” warranty that has paid for several of these bags multiple times over (I travel a LOT). To me (YMMV) the time required to find a high-quality good that I like is well worth the extra cost of knowing I likely won’t need to buy it again for quite some time.
floraposte – Cook’s Illustrated’s top scorer was a $30.00 Swiss job
@floraposte: What’s the name of it?
@ICherub: …but that’s not really apples to apples. I use a 5+ year old DVD player that was $50 brand new. The extra money meant a better remote and display than the $30 ones. They don’t just break (usually).
A new craptacular Aladdin Stanley still costs a great deal ($35+), and is a far inferior quality thermos to the old ones. I’ve given up on mine. My father’s surviving one is just a much better design. I’m thinking of trying a Nissan.
Laz-e-boy recliners are not the quality they once were, either. They’ll actually wear out in 5-10 years.
There are many things where you just can’t buy it as good as it used to be, anymore.
I carry a $50 flashlight on my keychain (Arc). It has made up its cost many times over in saved time and stress, and it will certainly outlast my need for it. I wish I could say that about most things I have. Sometimes I make it like a bandit; yet, sometimes, it’s a turd, where I paid extra to have it polished.
@luckybob343:
1. No doubt. I got even some toys that could have been new used, and have, so far, had two backpacks (one through 6th grade, the second all the way through college…it started coming apart during my last semester). And so on…it wasn’t until after I was out of college that I used up all my school pens and notebooks…that my parents were required to get as supplies in middle school. Most of it, though, was good stuff.
2. I can’t agree with 3 years out of a CRT. That takes negligence, I think. No doubt on furniture (see above). Clothing is also getting worse, though. Brands that used to make good stuff have been going downhill. Levi, Eddie Bauer…I might find my next Nautica jeans not last several years.
3. Really big issue. It seems like there’s more, because all the stuff has gotten so cheap, but relative to goods like food, it’s not so much.
@digitalgimpus:
RAM – he accepted not getting a refund? I’d have sat there blocking a register and making a scene for that. If it can’t pass memtest, they need to take it back.
Whole PCs: yes. I just had to deal with an old Celeron box (600MHz, 32MB RAM, old Intel IGP)…I had a better PC built from leftovers of PCs my dad had upgraded that was far superior when this thing was brand new. It wouldn’t have cost, even then, more than $100 more for one that would be an OK XP box, with a little RAM upgrade. It’s not as bad today as it used to be, but not getting the bottom of the line can yield great results. You just have to know where to spend. You can take an OK PC cand make a nice one, take a slow and give it a few more years, and then let a geek retire it into a neat *n*x appliance…but, a PoS stays a PoS.
Shoes: yeah, and I should go find some, one of these days. Dockers last 1/2 to 1 year, but they fit (I have wide flat Native American feet). It’s exactly the boots thing
.
Chair: not to mention, the cheap ones don’t last…like most anything else. But, good ones tend to be so costly as to be prohibitive. Another very good example of why the cheap stuff sells like it does.
I think a big problem with Americans’ obsession with cheap shit is the fact that too many are brainwashed that your neighbors and friends will think less of you if you wear the same coat for more than one season. That to somehow use the same coat over and over just labels you as a pauper and your friends won’t like you anymore.
Maybe we need to get back to more of the touchy feely crap everyone so maligned back in school. Y’know, how real friends don’t give a shit how much money you have or what clothes you wear? Then again, when I was little I watched Mr Rogers’ neighborhood rather than the patronizing drivel that’s on kid’s edutainment TV these days.
I don’t even wear any kind of a coat more than a light fleece, which has lasted 5 years and has NO SIGNS OF WEAR! Also, my list:
SPLURGE:
-Mattress: your back will thank you
-Pillows: Your neck will thank you
-Speakers/Headphones: You don’t need anything too pricey, but get a good quality set, you’ll enjoy it
-Hard Drives: Data loss is not a joke…
SAVE:
-Food: Store Brands work fine…
-Keyboards: You gamers, I know the urge to get a kickass keyboard, but then I look at my ’97 HP keyboard and realize, it works fine
-Guitars: Epiphone as about as good as Gibson, so if you just want a guitar that plays pretty well, save with the Epi, it’s not bad at all…
Computers are tricky. If you just want it to check email, surf the web, and do some word processing, just get a cheap Wally World special. If you’re looking for mid-range (easier gaming, a little video editing, things like that…) it’s either a fairly decent store-bought, or a home build. If its anything higher end, build it. HTPCs you should focus on fast hard drives and reliability, heavy on the RAM, fast CPU, but you don’t need much of a GPU.I know most of us if not all know all of this, but I like to share around advice, helps people get good products or save money.
@Amy Alkon: Somehow I don’t think going to Paris makes you more frugal. I save money by not going. You can smell BO infested bums anywhere.