Why Did Toyota Sell Me A Van With An Obsolete Navigation System?

Ben bought a Toyota Sienna minivan last year, and one of the fancy options included was a built-in navigation system. That’s neat. But what’s strange is that his car has the wrong system. It has the one meant for the 2011 model, not the 2012 that he purchased. This doesn’t seem like all that big a deal, but it hurts the resale value of his van and is just generally annoying. Wouldn’t you want the technology that you paid for?

In late 2011, I purchased a 2012 Toyota Sienna XLE with Navigation. It took them 3 months to deliver the car to me (I received it in February), and my wife and newborn twins have been relatively happy with it since then.

Fast forward to about a week ago when I was browsing the Toyota website. It turns out that 2012 Sienna’s are supposed to come with a completely different navigation system than the one I received. The one I received is actually the 2011 model nav that has no special features, while 2012 models allow you to search Bing, make restaurant resevations, stream Pandora, etc.

Needless to say, I’m annoyed. My 2012 Sienna is effectively worth less than every other 2012 Sienna, as it has older technology than the others.

I called the dealership, and they will do nothing. They claim that I got a great deal on the car and should be happy with what I got. They also claim that they reviewed the options with me when I bought it, and if I didn’t like what I was getting, I should have said something then.

My position is that it never occurred to me that they would put 2011 options in a 2012 car. I saw that my 2012 car had nav, and just assumed that it would have the 2012 version of it. They also didn’t specifically state that I was getting the 2012 seat belts – do I now need to go and check those as well?

I spoke to Toyota corporate, and they said that these things have to go through the dealership, so there is nothing they can do.

Any advice on where I can go next?

Comments

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  1. Marlin says:

    Many car lines have mid-model updates. Sounds like yours was one of them.

    Not much you can do.

    • What’s your problem, Kazanski? says:

      Damn. You beat me to it.

    • Loias supports harsher punishments against corporations says:

      According to Edmunds, this is not the case:

      http://www.edmunds.com/futuremodels/2012/

      (I assume Carryover means no changes, since other models have the word Refresh)

      • Nigerian prince looking for business partner says:

        Refresh usually means appreciable changes unrelated to platform (frame and drivetrain).

        It’s exceedingly rare for a model to stay exactly the same from year-to-year. It’s also not that unusual for models to undergo minor changes over the course of the model year. My car (2008 model year, bought in ’07) had slight changes during production. This included different air boxes and the removal of engine covers between production in July & August ’07.

        • jefeloco says:

          Yeah, BMW is kind of notorious for coming out with slight upgrades or tweaks anywhere from 2-3 times a year. I have a 2003 3 series but it has different settings and equipment from those made three months after mine due to a slight refresh.

      • scoutermac says:

        I don’t think this includes small changes like the factory radio/navigation. This is more of body and engine changes.

        • Loias supports harsher punishments against corporations says:

          Edmunds gets pretty specific on their refresh details. But to be fair I could not find an example on their website specifically for a software upgrade as part of a refresh.

  2. What’s your problem, Kazanski? says:

    The dealer may not have had an option. Sometimes the manufacturers do mid-model year refreshes. Meaning that what came with the 2012 model year now may not be what came with it 3 months ago.

    Call Toyota back. It’s ultimately their product no matter what the dealer says and does. Demand consideration for your trouble, or at least an explanation of why the nav systems are different throughout the model year.

    Disclaimer: I do work for a car dealer, but not a Toyota dealer.

    • Loias supports harsher punishments against corporations says:

      No refresh occured based on this:

      http://www.edmunds.com/futuremodels/2012/

      • Nigerian prince looking for business partner says:

        That wouldn’t constitute a refresh. It wouldn’t be all that unusual for a car built early in the model year to have parts from the previous year. I think the OP should escalate it with Toyota but he’s probably just going to be told the same thing.

        • failurate says:

          They can share the same parts, but the unit labeled as a new model best have the features that distinguish it from the previous model. It seems this navigation system is a pretty key model year specific feature.

          I wouldn’t even put this on the dealership, Toyota should fix this. Unless of course the dealer hoodwinked him and he actually purchased a 2011 model. He might want to have his VIN checked.

    • StarKillerX says:

      “Demand consideration for your trouble, “

      The trouble of being happy with the van but then getting his panties in a bunch because the newer ones come with a slightly better navigation system?

      Next he should start complaining to Dell because his 6 month old computer has a smaller hard drive and slower CPU then the ones currently on the shelf and round out the day complain to Proctor & Gamble because the Cheer he bought last month to do his laundry with isn’t “New & Improved” like the new ones.

      • Duke_Newcombe-Making children and adults as fat as pigs says:

        The trouble of being happy with the van but then getting his panties in a bunch because the newer ones come with a slightly better navigation system?

        Didn’t he already purchase the “newer one(s)”? It looks like he just wants what he had coming when he purchased the vehicle–the options that he purchased and that come with that model year. He’s not exactly trying to cheat the dealership, here.

  3. mbd says:

    >In late 2011, I purchased a 2012 Toyota Sienna

    Model year and actual year are two different things. OP bought a 2011 model.

    • What’s your problem, Kazanski? says:

      Obviously you’ve never bought a new car. We’ve had 2013 Model Year vehicles on our lot since March. It’s not 2013 last time I checked.

    • YouDidWhatNow? says:

      lolwut?

      Hi, welcome to the real world, where next-year’s model vehicles go on sale in August of the prior year.

    • webweazel says:

      Generally, model year changes in June/July. In other words, a model year runs from July 1 of one year to June 30 of the next year. This is the times that the cars are actually BUILT. So, yes, a 2012 model is built in August of 2011, and is also built in February of 2012. By the end of June, they’re starting to get their tooling together for the model year switch.

      I worked on cars matching paint codes/colors and I had to have a date of manufacture to figure out the model year. These things make a significant difference in paint colors, lemme tell ya. If you look at the label on the driver’s door, it will give a month/year date somewhere on it. I had to figure out what month is on it, between July and June and figure the year accordingly. Check yours. You may (or may not–depending on what month yours was built) be surprised.

    • scooter-z says:

      I agreee– i bought my 2009 Pathfainder in Sept 2008. and NO McFly, i did not go into the future.

  4. Blueskylaw says:

    Ask for free rustproofing and floor mats in consideration for the old navigation system. It shouldn’t cost the dealer more that $20 dollars out of pocket expense for those two items.

    • skakh says:

      Rustproofing? No one pays for rustproofing any more! In over 30 years I had one car rust proofed and one car which rusted. Yep, same car. Thankfully, rustproofing was such a great product it has virturally disappeared.

  5. conquestofbread says:

    They at least owe you an explanation.

    If it was a mid-year refresh for the model, then it sucks, but you technically got what you paid for, because it would have been what anybody else who bought the same car would have gotten.

    If the navigation system was outdated when you bought it and it wasn’t clearly indicated on the paperwork that it would be so, I wouldn’t stop bugging both the dealership and the manufacturer until they upgrade your shit.

  6. MrEvil says:

    I highly doubt the resale value of Ben’s Sienna has been hurt in any appreciable manner. He bought a vehicle early on in the model year and Toyota did a refresh (it’s not unheard of). Did Ben know about this new better navigation system when he sat down to purchase the van?

    • keepher says:

      This whole thing is a waste of time and effort. We all know that electronics are old news almost before they hit the shelves. Fact of the matter is, by the time he goes to resell the 2012 unit won’t be worth much either. Give it a rest, this is small peanuts.

      Now if you have proof that they charged you extra for a 2012 that is a different kettle of fish.

    • kpsi355 says:

      Early? Nope. He paid early, but the 2012 model came out in August 2011. So when he finally got his in February the model year was 1/2 over.

      http://iguida.com/2012-toyota-sienna#releasedate

      If it’s popular enough that he had to wait three months to get his car, he probably got one that just rolled off the line. How does he deserve an old software version? Seriously, this should be simple:

      He should get a 2012 nav system.

  7. mbd says:

    > Any advice on where I can go next?

    A lawyer’s office, if you want to waste your money…

    Honestly, cars designs and features are always being updated thought the year. Unless it is a safety issue, the manufacturer is under no obligation to retroactively update older vehicles.

  8. clippy2.1 says:

    Did you already do the dealership feedback on your shopping experience? if not, remind them you have yet to complete it, and if they are willing to do anything to improve your shopping experience

  9. Loias supports harsher punishments against corporations says:

    Lawsuit – seriously. They pulled a fast one on you.

    • eyesack is the boss of the DEFAMATION ZONE says:

      …how? If there was a bait and switch, he would have said so. He test-drove this car, right? He liked it and agreed to a price with the dealer. Now he finds out that he could have had something better, but we don’t really have anything here that suggests he would have paid the same amount of money for the car.

      That said, it’s a rather odd move from the dealer, and I don’t really understand the “nothing can be done” attitude. I’m assuming the nav system already has full integration with the stereo system, so it should just be something akin to a software upgrade to get him the new stuff.

      • Azagthoth says:

        Actually, he didn’t test drive the vehicle. In the article it states that it took the dealership 3 months to get him the van, which usually indicates a special order. That being said, if a dealership took 3 months to get me a vehicle I would want everything the newest and most up to date on that model year.

    • Loias supports harsher punishments against corporations says:

      And according to Edmunds, no redesign occured for the Make/Model

      http://www.edmunds.com/futuremodels/2012/

      • Here to ruin your groove says:

        “Your honor, the basis for my complaint is that this website about cars tells me I should have this, and that ABSOLUTELY IN NO WAY WAS THERE A REFRESH. No, the site has nothing to do with Toyota really, and is about as reliable as Wikipedia, but hey, it says what I want it to say right there!”

        I am sure it’s a great source and all, but considering the OP HAS a car with a 2011 GPS system, I’m willing to think there are 2012 models with this GPS.

      • az123 says:

        Changing a radio or some sub system in car is not a redesign or refresh, I currently work at an automotive electronics supplier and all sorts of things get changed mid-year, from the radio to the engine control module and they never tell the consumer they are doing it. What makes life suck more for the consumer is that when you need to go get a replacement part one day you need your VIN number so they know what is in your car.

        When places like Edmonds report updates on cars they are talking about them changing the body / engine / transmission or other very large and very visible changes, not what radio/sat nav goes into the car. In fact many times to ensure supply they will have multiple variants of this stuff they put into cars.

        There is no way you would win in court, the documents the OP is looking at are from advertising that was probably dated after he purchased the car, so they changed the feature and all is good.

      • sirwired says:

        That page says nothing of the sort. All it is is an estimate for when the 2012 model year will be released and if the model is all-new, a significant set of changes (refresh), or largely identical (carryover.) And even a “carryover” model will have minor option and feature shuffles year-to-year (such as a new nav system.)

        That page says absolutely nothing about running changes in the middle of a model year, or the lack thereof.

    • sirwired says:

      No, they didn’t. As many previous posters have noted, automakers make mid-model-year changes (referred to as “running changes”) all the time. I suspect something very complicated like the described system wasn’t ready in time for the 2012 model release.

      As long as the feature isn’t advertised as existing on the vehicle he ordered, Toyota is legally (and morally) in the clear.

    • stevenpdx says:

      Stop it. They didn’t. There are always in-year production and specification changes that do not rise to the level of being a refresh of the vehicle.

  10. HappyPig says:

    Unofficially: Get a DVD burner, find the appropriate torrent of the map info, and save yourself the hassle of bugging Toyota about this update. I don’t understand why they charge for updates when all the major navigation companies now give free map updates several times a year.

    • scoutermac says:

      Garmin charges you after your first initial update.

    • Tmoney02 says:

      The problem is not the maps, but all the additional features that are missing, and wouldn’t be able to be just updated. Its like getting a basic Garmin vs. one of their deluxe models.

    • Eyeheartpie says:

      Umm, that’s not the issue. The issue is that the nav that he got cannot do all the extra things that the updated nav can do, like search bing, stream Pandora via bluetooth, etc… Map updates are not the issue.

      Reading is your friend.

  11. Thyme for an edit button says:

    They also claim that they reviewed the options with me when I bought it

    So, is this not true?

    Were expecting something other than what you received? Or is this just retrospective wishing you had something different?

    • Thyme for an edit button says:

      Were expecting something other than what you received?

      To clarify, I mean in terms of functionality. Were you expecting to receive the system that let’s got a bunch of features other than Nav, or were you just expecting it to navigate for you?

      • StarKillerX says:

        Of course he wasn’t, he’s just crying because the new ones come with something better.

    • Loias supports harsher punishments against corporations says:

      I think he’d notice if they said “And loaded with the OnStar 2011 system.” but he probably would have no idea since they would say “And loaded with OnStar v8.1124562″

  12. Keep talking...I'm listening says:

    This sort of thing happens all the time, and is a result of automakers producing vehicles for the next model year earlier than the calendar year. New parts are usually introduced as ‘rolling’ changes on the assembly line, meaning they use up all the old parts before switching over.

    I would check to see when the vehicle was manufactured (usually on a sticker on the driver’s door). I would also have the dealership check the manufacturing order, and the vehicle brochure. I’m willing to bet that the ‘new’ navigation system was subject to availability (and listed as such in both places) and was not available at the time the vehicle was assembled.

    Essentially there is no legal recourse here since the papers are signed, sealed and delivered and has been for 3 months. It’s up to the buyer to inspect, then accept or reject the vehicle at time of delivery. From a sales perspective the deal is done over with (I know, that’s not how things should be).

    If I personally were in this situation, I would buddy up with the service manager and see if he or the regional rep would be willing to do a swap. Keep escalating it (politely) and see where it takes you.

  13. Nigerian prince looking for business partner says:

    I’d check the invoice code for the entertainment center to verify that there really was a mid-year refresh. I think that’s the most likely scenario but it’s also possible that the stereo was swapped out with another vehicle, as a condition of sale to someone else.

    My previous car (2000 Ford Focus) had a factory cassette deck and one of the conditions of buying the car that day was that I wanted a CD player. To make the sale, the dealership swapped out stereos from another car on the lot.

    • scoutermac says:

      I went to a local Toyota dealership to buy a Toyota Camry. They had two in the parking lot. The one I wanted did not have the wheels I wanted the other car I did not want did. They also had another customer that wanted to Camry I did not want and wanted the wheels I did not want. Easy fix to swap. The problem was they decided they were going to charge me I think it was $300 for labor to swap the wheels. I refused and left.

      • Nigerian prince looking for business partner says:

        Wow, that’s some serious BS right there.

        Usually, dealerships will bend over backwards to make a sale right then and there.

      • DonnieZ says:

        $300 labor?

        Discount Tire would have done this for free. It literally takes 15 minutes to swap 4 wheels between two cars.

        • joako says:

          Yes but it’s the dealer.

          Once my car was in the dealer for like 2 weeks. The insurance pays many thousands of $$$ for the repairs and I go to pickup when its done. They tell me the battery is dead. And I tell them sure I just pay you $8,000 now charge me the overpriced battery but no labor. No they must charge me $200 battery and $200 labor to swap the battery. I say hell no and go pickup a $120 battery from the autoparts and take the 3.5 minutes to install it.

      • dollym100 says:

        Business must be very good for them to walk away from a sale that required so little effort.

  14. speaky2k says:

    I will agree with some of the others: mid-model changes. I have a 2009 car I bought as the 2010′s were just starting to come out. This car was a steal because it was “fully loaded” and selling at the base model price (10k difference), but it was one of the first 2009′s delivered (sitting on the lot for over 8 months), so it had a first generation sound system in it. That meant it did not have built in Blu-tooth while the second generation did. Since I already had a Blu-tooth ear piece, I didn’t care, and when I sell it, the price difference isn’t going to be that much of a difference vs how much I saved on the car.

  15. Mrbyte2k says:

    Buy one on the lot next time. That way you know what you’re getting.

  16. rdaex says:

    Has anyone said mid-model refresh, only to have Loias confirm that wasnt the case? Cause Id like to say it was probably a mid model refresh.

    Read before you comment folks.

  17. homehome says:

    This is one of those situation I would need more information on to make a decision, does it say in the book that it’s subject to availability? How much was the difference btw the other models, was your price lower?

  18. offtopic says:

    So the OP is mad that his very early 2012 Sienna came with the older stereo/nav system. As I understand how this worked this was not something specific to the model year, but rather something that Toyota was phasing in. If I were the OP I’d go back and look at all of the paperwork and see what was outlined – my guess is that it was simply an option package or trim level that is specified. On Toyota’s end – they probably considered it a running change – use what is on hand and then when it runs out use a new batch. This is common practice on cars.

    I think that the OP is overreacting on this – the hit on resale is negligible. Had this been important to the OP he should have made sure that everything was OK prior to taking delivery. Driving the car for a few months and then pitching a hissy fit is just sour grapes.

    • StarKillerX says:

      Yep, it’s like using a computer for 6 months and then complaining that the new ones in the same model line come with a faster CPU or bigger hard drive.

      • Duke_Newcombe-Making children and adults as fat as pigs says:

        No. This is absolutely nothing like that.

  19. Sinabu says:

    This is quite common when you get a brand new model year where there was no major refresh. I purchased an 09 Malibu LTZ fully loaded at the end of 08. It didn’t include a USB port but several months later I started seeing the 09′s with the updated radio that included a USB port. It sucks but it does happen.

  20. offtopic says:

    So the OP is mad that his very early 2012 Sienna came with the older stereo/nav system. As I understand how this worked this was not something specific to the model year, but rather something that Toyota was phasing in. If I were the OP I’d go back and look at all of the paperwork and see what was outlined – my guess is that it was simply an option package or trim level that is specified. On Toyota’s end – they probably considered it a running change – use what is on hand and then when it runs out use a new batch. This is common practice on cars.

    I think that the OP is overreacting on this – the hit on resale is negligible. Had this been important to the OP he should have made sure that everything was OK prior to taking delivery. Driving the car for a few months and then pitching a hissy fit is just sour grapes.

  21. Skittl1321 says:

    That sucks. I’m not surprised they won’t help you though. The car dealerships around here act like they are doing a favor by selling you a car.

  22. mrvw says:

    My wife and I ordered a car two years ago, we were supposed to get the very nice stereo with 8 speakers but when our vehicle was built that had replaced that with a touch screen stereo with navigation and 10 speakers.
    It’s just the luck of the draw on when the vehicle was built.
    But if you really want to be a thorn in their side, file a BBB complaint against the dealer.

    • Blueskylaw says:

      If I were you, I would take the dealer to small claims court and ask them to remove the extra 2 speakers and install a cassette player like you originally wanted. They won’t be able to get away with sh*t like this if you call them out on it. You might also be able to get some compensation for pain and suffering.

      • shepd says:

        Sue ‘em for the gas you’ll waste carrying around all that extra free shit they put in the car! YEAH! You know you want to. Doooo eeeeiit!

  23. gtrietsc says:

    I think I would get a brochure for a 2012 model that lists all the features, and take that to a lawyer. You didn’t get what you paid for. My personal feeling is that the dealership switched the nav unit on you, which is why Toyota is giving you the cold shoulder.

    • ajaxd says:

      There is always a lot of small print in those brochures. Companies make changes to equipment all the time based on availability and other factors and in no way guarantee that the vehicle you get will be 100% as pictured. The company website typically offers more up to date information (and probably it did not list the new Nav at the time when OP placed an order). Besides, hiring a lawyer over what amounts to several hundred dollars of perceived value drop is just plain waste of money.

  24. formatc says:

    My friend had some music playback issues with the nav system in his 2011 VW, and during troubleshooting the dealer swapped his with a 2012 model they had on their lot to see if the newer hardware fixed the issue. It didn’t work, and VW eventually swapped it back, but it sounds like the OP bought a car that they swapped like that.

  25. LMA says:

    I just bought a 2012 Prius that was manufactured in February of this year, and I also was dismayed to find that the data in the navigation package is old — there’s a highway nearby that was completed and opened late last year that doesn’t exist in their mapping software. I’ve been told by other, older model Prius owners that it’s about $300 to get an update, which I’m certainly not going to do! I’m annoyed but chalking it up to “what can you do?”

    • Beave says:

      Request a map pack update. Good dealers will do them automatically. They’re supposed to be free within a certain period from purchase.

      • The Cupcake Nazi says:

        Even that may not fix it. It takes time for the changes to trickle down from the map creators through the actual software packages. It can easily be two years or more before roads show up, in some cases.

  26. Important Business Man (Formerly Will Print T-shirts For Food) says:

    I blame the OP. They should have bought the car using Paypal so that they can escalate the dispute to a claim!
    /s

  27. Beave says:

    Go back to the dealership and tell them to submit it to Toyota as a warranty claim. Chances are they already did this and were rejected, but then you can start asking for the name of the district service manager for Toyota. He’s the guy who has the power to overturn these sorts of denials.

    As for the dealership, they’re full of crap because they don’t want to potentially lose money. Your point on the seatbelts was spot-on. If you buy a 2012 model year vehicle and the Toyota literature indicates they come with certain features, it should come with those features.

  28. shepd says:

    I’d be more upset in 5 years when I want to upgrade the stereo/gps/whatever and find out that Toyota isn’t a software company, that nobody wants to even sell and update, and that the weird dash required to make this fit means you can’t fit a nice double din stereo.

    I guess I’m just old skool, though.

  29. astraelraen says:

    Toyota had “regular” navigation, then they changed what navigation units they were using to their new “Entune” navigation that has additional features.

    I’m sure this is what the OP is referring to.

    According to the Toyota website, NO 2012 Sienna comes with the pre-Entune navigation system.

    The OP should review the window sticker that came with the car, it will say what type of Navigation they purchased.

    • scoosdad says:

      I’m thinking that someone buying an older model that never came with the new nav system, demanded that the dealership install the newer nav system as a condition of the sale, so they swapped out the units and our OP ended up with the older system. Would make sense that the dealership wanted to clear out leftover models for the new ones under whatever circumstance they could provide.

      Doesn’t make it right if the car the OP bought was supposed to come with it. I agree, check on the sticker and all the available Toyota documentation and if everything is on his side, then go fight with the district manager and if necessary, small claims court.

      I know that in my particular Toyota vehicle, it could have a nav or radio system installed that covered a span of at least two model years since the hole and mount in the dashboard was the same and the wiring harnesses matched.

      • MrEvil says:

        I would buy that explanation if Ben took one off the lot, but he ordered the van. As in, he had to wait 3 months for Toyota’s factory to put it together and truck it to the dealer. Those cars are sold before they roll off the truck and from my experience aren’t touched except for delivery prep.

    • phsiii says:

      I would stop complaining if I were the OP — the Entune radio gets lousy marks. It also doesn’t include satellite radio, which apparently costs over $400 to add. So no, resale value has NOT been damaged; it might even have improved. I thought the original complaint was going to be over which nav DVD was included — we bought ours in March 2011 and got a 2010 DVD because that was the latest available at the time. Not even ONE free update, which seems chintzy.

      And as others have noted, “model year” in Toyota’s case is a fiction: the only reason they have “model years” at all is because the US forces them to.

      Finally, what Toyota’s website states and what is reality are often different. Stories of option combinations that can be ordered *but will never be built* are common with Toyota. And just try to get a Sienna Limited with the AT (Advanced Technology) package — they keep changing their minds on whether it’s even orderable in a given region. We’ve had ours for over a year, and I’ve seen exactly ONE other Sienna on the road with the AT package (it’s easy to spot due to the cover over the adaptive cruise in the middle of the grille). So it’s clearly very rare, and likely available only on Thursday the 23rd when the moon is full…

  30. VintageLydia says:

    Why do people continue to buy on-board nav when you can get a much nicer GPS for less than half the price? My Garmin was about $130 from Costco about a year ago and has included lifetime map updates and traffic! Bigger screen size is the only thing I can see.

    • malraux says:

      Bigger screen, built in to the dash for a cleaner look, integrates with the stereo do that I’m not having to turn down music to hear directions, less vulnerable to smash and grab thieves, better integration from my iPod to the stereo, steering wheel control integration, etc. I won’t deny that it’s overpriced for what you get in some cases, but it’s not all downsides.

  31. dimoko says:

    didn’t you look in the car before you signed for it? You signed for THAT car, not for a theoretical car.

  32. jsimpson says:

    Keep raising enough stink until you get the nav system you want. Later, when your vehicle needs service, they will welcome you with open arms. Or check the window sticker to see what should have been installed.

  33. az123 says:

    As noted by many others, buy an early car during a model year and this can happen, they will do mid-year refresh of it. So what you need to do is find other early model year versions of the van and see they have the same sat nav as you do .

    If you really want to complain about it, call Toyota not the dealer, the dealer had nothing to do with building the car and is not part of Toyota, they still likely are going to do nothing about it except tell you it was a mid-year change over but they may do something.

    The other thing you should learn is that the radio / sat nav in a car has very little to no impact on the resale value. there may be a bit of difference between having a sat nav in the car vs. not, but the specific model that is in there will be unnoticed on resale. First the difference between the two systems is probably $100 in retail cost, if even that, secondly if you keep the van for 5 years it will be old technology by the time you sell it and effectively have zero value on the car.

    Sounds like the OP is upset they cannot search bing while they drive

  34. jsimpson says:

    Keep raising enough stink until you get the nav system you want. Later, when your vehicle needs service, they will welcome you with open arms. Or check the window sticker to see what should have been installed.

  35. animatedantmo says:

    Sort of like what happened to me with my used Toyota Corolla. It had non factory parts in it at the time of purchase and the dealership refused to cover them under the extra warranty I purchased, but didnt not say anything about this at the time of sale.

    I got the situation resolved by following the steps the OP already has. When that didnt work I did the following

    1) Contacted the Better Business Bureau
    2) Wrote a letter to my states attorney general consumer protection division
    3) Made it clear to the dealership that after the states attorney I intended to file in small claims court.

    I got a check for repairs a month after :) So keep on escalating OP, they will hear you eventually.

  36. benminer says:

    I’m not conviced the OP actually bought a 2012 Sienna. What does the sticker on the door say? Ask the insurance company to run the VIN.

  37. DonnieZ says:

    Sounds like buyers remorse to me. The OP signed on the line which means you accept the vehicle as-is. I’m sure the OP had an opportunity to examine the vehicle prior to purchase. If not, shame on the OP.

    Manufacturers make changes and updates all the time – they don’t owe anything to you if they make changes to vehicles sold after yours was purchased.

  38. StarKillerX says:

    The OP would have a valid complaint if he expected the new features in his nav system, since he didn’t he got exactly what he bought and the fact that the system was upgraded at a later does not entitle him to an upgrade.

    What’s next suing Dell because they started offering your computer model with a faster CPU?

  39. DJ Charlie says:

    I make my own navigation system at home. Literally! Installed a carpc in the Lady with Streets & Trips and a GPS dongle. It also lets me watch movies, listen to music, and surf the web!

  40. oldwiz65 says:

    Typical of Toyota and dealers in general – they don’t really care about customers and do nothing to really help people who have problems. It’s just the way all the auto makers and dealers are these days; if you aren’t happy with something about the car…tough.

  41. plasticorange says:

    i think Cosumerist needs a voting button on these user submitted stories —– for this one, I would click the “Waa Waa I’m being a baby” button.

    So you bought something and then later, it got upgraded and you want the upgraded one? If you bought the car expecting the 2012 system you might have a point. But you only found out about the new features while browsing the website recently?

  42. Rachacha says:

    What does the contract/order form say? Every car that I have ordered from the factory has had a detailed list and part number for each option. If it just said “navigation system” then it is safe to assume you will get the standard nav system shown in the 2012 brochure.

  43. dollym100 says:

    There has to be some kind of description on the invoice about the navigation system. Check the 2011 and the 2012. If they are different and you signed for 2011, you may have no case but it the invoice lists 2012 specs you should proceed to small claims court if they refuse to fix the problem.

  44. smarty-pants44 says:

    I would check and see if theres a software update for the ’11 navs to get the ’12 features. I did that on the nav system in my VW.

  45. Duke_Newcombe-Making children and adults as fat as pigs says:

    Three words: Small Claims Court. You haz it?

  46. jacobs cows says:

    When you buy this garbage what do you expect?

  47. sparc says:

    his order should have a specific code for the type of navigation ordered. Should be fairly easy to look it up.

    I wonder if they updated the navigation mid year.

  48. SteveHolt says:

    So you can spend $$$ getting it updated!

  49. human_shield says:

    Buy a car with a double din slot that can be upgraded. I will never buy another factory nav again. My car is 10 years old and runs great, but the nav is old and they stopped making updated maps years ago. With no way to replace the radio, I’m stuck. From now on I’ll be getting a regular radio and replacing it with a quality aftermarket unit so I can keep the stupid map up to date without replacing the whole car.

  50. Robert Nagel says:

    Go to small claims court. The judges usually have more common sense and less patience with attempts to pull a fast one. You deserve what was advertised, not what you got from their old parts bin. When you do sue them make sure to include both the dealer and Toyota. If this was indeed a running change they will be able to prove it. If not they will have a lot to explain.
    If it doesn’t make any difference in the value of the car, why did they do it? They did it because it did, of course.

  51. timp says:

    Small Claims Court. Claim fraud or breach on contract. A new Nav system would be around $2-3K so it’s allowed in Small claims court.

  52. rzuch says:

    Actually the Nav system they changed to in March 2012 or thereabouts is worse than the one you have! I have it in my 2012 Sienna XLE and it performs worse than a $150 Nav unit from Radio Shack. The Entunes “feature” adds almost nothing. I often can’t hear the instructions from the Nav system as is does not turn down the radio volume when it speaks. Not that it matters much as the directions are often confusing and sometimes just wrong. I gave Toyota a list of problems with the Nav system, most of which are embarrassing oversights on their part, and I asked to return the Nav unit for a credit. I can get an aftermarket Nav system that performs well at about half the price. They refused to do anything for me, even though 2 dealers confirmed the Nav system/Entunes performs poorly. To add insult to injury, a Toyota product specialist told me if I install an aftermarket unit it may void parts of the car warranty. Real nice Toyota: deliver a really poor product, don’t stand behind it, and also make life more difficult for the customer if they install a unit that works! This is my last Toyota. Toyota could care less about customer satisfaction once they get your money.