Every so often Southwest Airlines arbitrarily and incorrectly decides that someone is too fat to fly in a single seat. These are people who have regularly flown Southwest in the past and can fit themselves in one seat without a problem. Prior to now, none were cult celebrities with more than a million and a half Twitter followers and a smartphone. Then an air captain declared filmmaker Kevin Smith a “safety risk,” and all hell broke loose. Update: Southwest has responded.
Yes, Kevin Smith tweeted that Southwest Airlines kicked him off a flight. Yes, it was purportedly because of his weight. Southwest’s Twitter rep apologized (as did the VP of Customer Relations) once the incident took Twitter by storm. Smith took the opportunity to point out that the prompt apology was only because of his fame, and the same exact thing happens arbitrarily to other passengers who also shop in the plus-size section.
Fuck making it right for me just ’cause I have a platform. I sat next to a big girl who was chastised for not buying an extra ticket because “all passengers deserve their space.” Fucking flight wasn’t even full! Fuck your size-ist policy. Rude…
We’ve written about similar incidents here at Consumerist before, and are glad Smith is bringing more attention to the issue.
Update: Southwest has posted their response to Smith’s tweets. Their explanation: He had booked two seats for himself, but chose to take an earlier flight standby when there was only one seat available.
The airline explains:
Mr. Smith originally purchased two Southwest seats on a flight from Oakland to Burbank – as he’s been known to do when traveling on Southwest. He decided to change his plans and board an earlier flight to Burbank, which technically means flying standby. As you may know, airlines are not able to clear standby passengers until all Customers are boarded. When the time came to board Mr. Smith, we had only a single seat available for him to occupy. Our pilots are responsible for the Safety and comfort of all Customers on the aircraft and therefore, made the determination that Mr. Smith needed more than one seat to complete his flight. Our Employees explained why the decision was made, accommodated Mr. Smith on a later flight, and issued him a $100 Southwest travel voucher for his inconvenience.
Kevin Smith [Twitter]
Customer of Size Q&A [Southwest Airlines]
Not So Silent Bob [Southwest Airlines Blog]
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Given the fact that an airline ticket gets you these days is a seat, is it unfair to expect that it fit the same sized ass that your average chair in a restaurant or movie theater accomodates? And let’s face it, in the event of a water landing, Kevin Smith can be used as a floatation device.
In the event of an emergency, the passengers behind the fat person would die.
When I get on the train every day the only thing I expect is that they will get me where I’m going. Sometimes I get a seat to myself. Sometimes I get squished between two other people. Sometimes I have to stand.
It’s never comfortable.
When did it become an expectation that air travel would be comfortable? Particularly in the cheap seats? If the airline promotes comfort, then they owe us comfort. But I haven’t noticed any such ads lately.
Do you reserve a seat for your train commute?
Probably not. I usually didn’t when I commuted by train. Sometimes I do travel longer distances by train, though, and I do reserve a seat, and in those cases I do expect that seat to be mine and mine alone for the duration of the trip, just like on an airplane.
Upon what do you base that expectation? Your reservation gives you the right to expect that they will let you on the train, and assuming that they do not permit standing, a place to sit, Even a specific place to sit. But unless there is a guarantee of comfort, your expectation of it is unwarranted.
When did he get fat enough to get kicked off a plane? Seriously, he’s never been a BIG guy.
Airlines should just make fat seating.
He got fat enough in the past couple of years.
http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/herocomplex/images/2008/10/30/elizabeth_banks_seth_rogen_and_ke_2.jpg
http://cache-03.gawkerassets.com/assets/images/1/2008/11/Rogen_Kevin_Fat_Guys.flv.jpg
He needs to use this as a wakeup call and lose some weight.
At least he can lose weight.
You however will always be a fat phobic ass hat.
FYI, It’ ain’t’ easy to “just lose weight.” It is hard work and a lot of mental and emotional dedication.
You know, I really really like Kevin Smith. I’ve been a big fan of his since Clerks first came out. In the past few years, I have noticed he’s gained quite a bit of weight.
He’s got a beautiful wife and a young daughter, and maybe this could be a wake up call for him. Maybe he should hire a personal trainer and try at least to shed a few pounds so that in 10 years time he isn’t leaving a widow and young adult daughter without a dad.
I fly on a regular basis lately and I’ll be damned if a person of size is allowed to use my sit while I’m in it! I’m not a small woman, but I do fit. If and when ANYONE is sliding under or over the armrest (trust just because you can put it down doesn’t mean you’re only in the seat YOU paid for) I’m going to ring the call light. I paid for MY seat and I plan on using ALL of it…on my own!
The airlines need to some up with a way to take care of this. I don’t want to embarrass anyone, but I will. I’ll be that bitch if I need to be. I don’t want some stranger and their girth laid on me, just ain’t happening…fatties (of which I am one) can be mad. But let’s face it, if you’re fat/big (which is your right) be prepared to make accommodation for your girth.
If you RTFA, the flight was not full. They didn’t ask Smith to move to a seat next to an empty one so he wasn’t getting into anyone’s space.
Seems like a lot of strong, uninformed opinions are being expressed. I suggest getting informed – read the FAQ on the policy:
http://www.southwest.com/travel_center/cos_qa.html
One thing I haven’t seen anyone mention: If you book the extra seat, and the flight isn’t full, you get a refund for that ticket.
Except, as I found the last time I flew SW, their definition of “full” seems to vary. I’ve been told it’s “When we have oversold the flight and have to ask people to take another flight”, but that definition doesn’t always seem to stick true.
He lowered both armrests and the flight wasn’t full. Can you explain it to me now?
http://www.blogsouthwest.com/blog/not-so-silent-bob
The flight was full. Not sure where you’re getting your facts.
Ironically, KS followed the exact procedure Southwest recommended (booking two seats, with the expectation of getting a refund if the second one isn’t necessary). He switched to standby on a flight that was full. If he booked two seats in the first place, why is he suddenly up in arms when someone says he’ll need two seats? Does that come as a surprise?
Southwest was probably right to kick him off the flight. It isn’t fair when a person buys a seat and a fat person tries to squeeze into one, admittedly small, seat and oozes over into the other person’s space. That’s a pretty miserable way to fly for both people. If you can’t fit in one seat, buy two. Duh.
any one remember how much comfort the planes had in the late 70s?
I was a kid then, so I don’t know about the room, but I do know they allowed smoking on the planes then, and smoking is an excellent way to keep thin, like Troy McClure’s self-help book says.
The biggest mistake the airlines are making is not communicating clear policies.
I travel a lot, and I can assure you that there is nothing more miserable than being stuck sitting beside someone who doesn’t fit in their seats. I’m thrilled that the airlines have started enforcing policies that require people to purchase a second seat if they don’t reasonably fit in a single one.
Trying to cram an exceptionally large person into a normal sized seat just isn’t fair to the people who have to sit around them.
Let’s also be honest about Kevin Smith – the man has gotten VERY large compared to when he was acting in Clerks. He’s got a serious weight problem and is very much obese. He recently was in the press when his weight broke a toilet he was trying to use. http://www.fitsugar.com/Reality-Check-What-Broken-Toilet-Told-Kevin-Smith-2447763
There is not a single person reading these forums that would not be struggling to sit in the seat beside him. The only reason any of us would be willing to do it would be because we’re stargazing, and hoping to strike up a conversation with the man.
The fact that he’s famous? I give props to Southwest for enforcing this policy even against a famous person. No matter how famous Kevin is, it still isn’t fair to the person who has to sit beside him.
What Southwest should be doing is taking a few moments to ensure their policies are clear, and fairly applied.
Wall-mounted toilets will snap off the wall for any weight more than 250 lbs. Now, that might mean someone who alone weighs 250 lbs, but it can also mean someone who weighs far less and drops onto the toilet suddenly. Say, for example, someone swinging themselves onto the toilet from a wheelchair.
For some reason people think 250 lbs is “exceptionally large” but it’s really not that big. Most people have no real concept of what real people’s weights look like, which is part of why there is such a problem with body image.
I travel every week on United and it is tough to sit next to someone big. That also means wide shoulders, since shoulders can be touching as well. FWIW, I HATE physical contact with strangers.
My first flight was when I was twelve in the mid ’70′s aboard a Braniff 727. I saw many very over weight people on that flight. I flew many times after that either to DFW or to Shreveport, always from Memphis. Fast forward to my army days in the ’80′s and I was flying ALL THE TIME, usually on Republic Airlines. Once again, many, many obese folks and VERY friendly and polite flight crew.
My most recent flight was two years ago from DFW to Cancun via Mexico City. American Airlines to and from Mexico City. Rude, nasty flight crew. Mexicana Airlines between Mexico City and Cancun. Polite flight crew. A meal was served although the flight was less than two hours and an all around pleasant experience.
I do not understand why business allow things like this to happen. When I was in business school, we were taught that business were in business to make money, not to create massive PR nightmares. And as a pilot, I know that the engines used today are lighter, more powerful than those used in the ’80′s. So, if a 727 could carry 50 obese passengers in 1986 why can’t a much more powerful 737, 757, MD80 or Airbus do so today?
Sorry folks, I have to agree with Southwest on this one. (And by the way, “Size-ist”? How degrading to racists and sexists…)
The consumer jets of today, unfortunately, were not designed to accommodate people who are the size of 2 or 3 persons. Even if someone like Kevin Smith can “fit comfortably” in a coach-class seat, if that person is overflowing onto my seat, then it has decreased my comfort considerably. In the same way that I wouldn’t want to sit beside a smoker (because their smoke invades my personal space), I don’t want to sit beside someone who can’t fit in the seat (because the physical boundaries of their person invades my personal space).
It’s hard to quantify “how big is too big” to use a single seat, and perhaps Kevin James is petite-enough to fit in the chair well enough without invading anyone else’s personal space… but at a certain point, it’s just rude to assume that you can take up more of the seat than someone else, and think no one else should mind.
Maybe we should add a few rows of “plus size seats” in the airplanes. Maybe like, every 10 rows of 3-across chairs, we have one row of 2-across. If you’re over 300 lbs, then you automatically get put in one of those chairs. No extra fee, just less choice in seat arrangement. Either that or you purchase 2 seats.
I think the doors of the SWA planes should be cut outs like that “Hole in the Wall” game show. If you can’t pass through you can’t get on.
The fact that Southwest will kick off a foul-mouthed overweight publicity whore, makes me continue to want to fly Southwest. This is not a blame-the-OP. The guy is rude and overweight. There’s no way I’d ever want to be stuck by him on an airplane. Southwest did the right thing; I hope they stand by their actions as well as the SWA employees who took the action.
I think Southwest owes him a lot more than a $100 Voucher and an apology, Southwest is the last airline I would consider buying a ticket from right now and yes I’m telling all my friends of every size to take their business elsewhere. They need to get ready to see their ticket sales go down and hopefully another airline will learn from their mistake and let people of size know they are actually welcome to travel on their airline without being in fear of being humiliated and discriminated against while travelling. Kathy Hernandez-Club Catalina-San Diego
Fuck yea! Now maybe people will take these kind of BS policies more serious! AS I’ve said many many times before I am a large man, both in weight and height. and I CANNOT sit down in coach in any SW flight. Not because I’m fat, but because I’m too tall. It’s not my fault I’m too tall. They do nothing to help me and everytime I’m forced to sit with my legs sticking out into the aisle I’m defintely causing a flight risk. However, since it’s THEIR FAULT and not mine, they won’t do anything about it. Funny how they decide to if they can easily pin the blame on someone else.
Myb f Kvn lst sm wght ths wldn’t b prblm. Stp whnng. t’s yr wn flt fr bng dsgstng td. ‘ll cntn t fl Sthwst. ‘v stll hd th bst xprncs wth thm.
I think Southwest owes him a lot more than a $100 Voucher and an apology, Southwest is the last airline I would consider buying a ticket from right now and yes I’m telling all my friends of every size to take their business elsewhere. They need to get ready to see their ticket sales go down and hopefully another airline will learn from their mistake and let people of size know they are actually welcome to travel on their airline without being in fear of being humiliated and discriminated against while travelling. Kathy Hernandez-Club Catalina-San Diego
I listened to the whole story on Smodcast. What a crock of crap that SWA is passing off on people.
I won’t fly with them, ever again. I’d rather drive than to fund a company who will not allow people their dignity- where humiliation is company policy.
Or, perhaps I could offer my services in teaching their employees a few things about customer service, and adhering to standards and practices without allowing personal interpretation, since they obviously don’t know how to treat anyone. If they’d do this to him, how would you as a non-celebrity expect to be treated?
I’d never in a million years expect Mr.Smith to accept what they hand him in apology , since they cannot give him or his fellow passenger their dignity back, or erase the humiliation.
“Employees explained why the decision was made, accommodated Mr. Smith on a later flight, and issued him a $100 Southwest travel voucher for his inconvenience.”
I heard he refused to accept that voucher, as his dignity is worth more than a lousy $100. That’s chump change, even to ME, when compared to the value of my dignity and not even close to enough to repay the public humiliation… and I’m unemployed.
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When you are an airline, you know you own the FAA so you do what you want. Period.
I know the Captain is responsible for “the safety and comfort of all customers”, but It’s freakin Oakland to Burbank Not JFK to LAX. Total time making the person next to him uncomfortable…15 minutes. Geez, their statement just makes them sound inept. Create better policies and hire people with better judgment, period.
My fat partner and I chose not to fly with Southwest because they have a history of kicking fat people off the plane. He’s fat. I bet they wouldn’t let him fly. But maybe they will, now.
I honestly think that someone at Southwest is fat-phobic or something. There has to be a reason for this. Then to get on another Southwest flight and be just fine? No.
He’s nothing but a fat publicity hound. I mean c’mon, what’s a Hollywood director doing on Southwest, if not trying to stir up trouble and get some attention on the cheap. I used to have a little respect for Smith, but that’s all gone now. He’s a jackass! Even worse, the fat bastard could actually afford to follow airline policy and buy the second seat. Instead, he tried the faux poor me bullshit and whined on twitter. Complete f-tard!
He lives in LA and was flying to San Fran, SW has hourly flights for that. It’s the logical choice no matter how much money you make.
Of course you would have known that if you followed the story, but you like to whine and complain and make assumptions. Stay classy.
I bet this weeks smodcast will be interesting.
I’m sorry, but as someone who has flown next to someone who was oozing out of his own seat and into my own, I have to say that I appreciate the enforcement of this policy by the airlines.
He wasn’t oozing out of his own seat though and that’s the problem. No consistency in the policy.
LOL $100. Apperently Southwest think’s people dignity can be purchased for so little. I know airline companies don’t really value people who pay to use their services but we are human beings you know. With feelings.
I love Southerwest but obviously they are not immune to poor decisions and rediculous PR replies.
Southwest doesn’t seem to be in the wrong here.
Why is Kevin Smith not flying first class? The seats are way bigger there. Can we just get an extra class of seats? A little more room and slightly more expensive than coach. More than just heavy people would purchase these seats.
What happens if they book three fat guys next to each other?
BTW, he doesn’t look that fat, but we can only see his face.
Get Kevin Smith’s entire side of the story in his latest SModcast. http://smodcast.com/
It’s an hour and a half long, but if you’re bored and like Kevin Smith, it’s worth it.
From what he says, SWA’s “response” sounds like BS.
FWIW, Kevin mentioned on twitter that the apology SW gave him was half-assed at best. They never called him directly, although they said that did, and they said he regularly buys two seats – which he said was untrue. The reason he had two seats on the first flight was because his wife was supposed to join him and then didn’t at the last minute.
I think the problem is that airplanes are simply not designed for human beings. I posted earlier that i just got off a flight where I was seated next to a broad-shouldered guy and spent the entire 7 hrs. 33 minutes crushed against the wall and getting elbowed because he encroached on my space, yet he was in no way remotely out of normal human dimensions. I understand the argument that we’re not entitled to be comfortable, but if that’s your belief then you have no right to say fat people can’t squeeze in next to you either. I think it makes far more sense to have a little extra room so that people can breathe.
HAH! That $100 Southwest LUV Voucher is their solution to EVERYTHING. They forgot to deboard in Austin and flew me all the way to California. Do Not Fly.
I don’t think anyone is reading the update. Consumerist should have posted the update as a separate story so that people could see that he did buy two seats, but switched to an earlier flight that had only one seat available.
To me, that means he was well aware that his size required two seats and that he absolutely was sitting next to someone who was probably put out by being squished into their seat, seeing as the earlier flight was full.
Earlier posters thought he was on a flight that wasn’t full so Southwest just threw him off even though he wasn’t encroaching on someone else’s space.
He said he bought two seats for the privacy bubble which I believe. if you fly out of Burbank or LAX all you have to do is scan the plane for the center seat empty to find the celebrity in the window seat beside it. Actors don’t want to talk to you and can afford the isolation wall.
While I have mixed feelings about SouthwestAir’s policy about large passengers, I don’t think they can hide behind it in this case. I listened to Kevin Smith’s podcast (http://www.smodcast.com) where he recounted the entire ordeal. it sure sounds like more than one SWA staffer in the Oakland Airport mishandled his situation. He was not having trouble fitting into the seat. Yes, he was trying to get the last remaining seat on an fully booked flight. But he is not that oversized. He does NOT buy two seats cuz of his size, it’s cuz he likes to have some distance from the public. Southwest took the fact he likes a little room and made it part of its rationale in its blog entry, which was totally lame and off the mark.
I have tix to fly SWA with my husband in April. I am both taller and heavier than average (although by no means obese) and my husband is a stocky guy. We are growing a little worried about the random nature of SWA’s imposition of a vaguely worded (at best) questionable policy and whether we will make it to our destination. SWA, whom I’ve typically respected in customer service situations really blew it here, and it’s too bad that the major networks are missing an angle in their reporting.
From a comment at the Telegraph–by a large person–
“It’s just that this XXXLprimadonna obviously thought he was too famous to have to tick the fat box.”
dude got $100 to fly on the flight he originally booked instead of the one he chose to ride standby. stupid.
SWA should have just made it clear that if you book 2 seats and fly standby, they HAVE to have 2 seats available or can’t seat you on that flight, because of the difficulty of re-booking you on the later flight should the 2 standby seats not become available.
seems pretty clear and obvious to me. the dude is all bent out of shape essentially over nothing. why is this guy flying SWA anyway… boggles the mind.
my point being, you’re either one or two, make up your mind. apparently he couldn’t.
This is an Oakland to Burbank flight, it’s an hour and 30 minute flight, AT MOST. How much “inconvenience” can this cause the passenger next to him!?
Heck, I wouldn’t mind being “inconvenienced” to sit next to Kevin Smith for an hour or so. It’s probably the most excitement that passenger will ever have in their life anyway. Kevin Smith would be doing the passenger a favor.
I wouldn’t. It’s nice that you, Kevin Smith and all the fat people think you can make the decision who I want to share my seat with for me.
We’ve got to stop this PC trend of attempting to accept and normalize obesity. Either stop eating shit and lose some frigging weight or pay for however many seats are required (preferably far away from me) and shut the hell up.
Ahh, the “Fatty,” the last living acceptable target of prejudice, bigotry, and down-right juvenile bullying in these United States of the Self Absorbed. Thank God for the “Fatty,” or we would have no one left upon whom we could exorcise our fears, our thinly veiled self-loathing, or our culturally overdeveloped sense of self-righteousness.
Why the temerity! Imagine the horror of an unattractively large individual impinging slightly on MY personal space! Never mind that the seats on airplanes are shrinking noticeably. Never mind that the airlines still serve alcohol to the bleary-eyed sloppy drunk across the aisle. Never mind that obnoxious children under the age of 28 are still allowed to fly. Never mind that we have to make room for the nervous flyer with the demitasse bladder who needs to get up and pee 12 times in a forty minute flight. No, the real impediment to my aerial enjoyment is not the legroom fit for a double amputee, it is the Fatty.
Shame on you Fat Person! Shame on you for not fitting the incredibly shallow, venal, anorexic, mold to which all genuine human-beings aspire. Have you never read a popular magazine? Have you seen no episodes of popular reality TV? Have you never shopped for clothing in this country? How can you live, unaware of the simple fact that we Americans deserve nothing less than for you to lose weight or stop showing up in public! It is our right and we demand it!
You Fatties just better stop being fat or so help me, we will institute a class action law suit against all of you and force you to stay indoors, with the curtains drawn, where we don’t have to look at anyone who doesn’t run 27 mile every day or hasn’t had just the right amount of plastic surgery. Fatty, you have been warned!
Smells like a big, fat publicity stunt to me. He was probably being obnoxious, got kicked off, then reported it as though they kicked him off for being too fat. Does he have any new movies or books being released in the next few weeks? If so, there’s your answer.
I think about 50 of us fatasses should book a flight and all actually show up. Southwest Airlines collective asshole would slam shut. Would they kick off all 50 of us or just 49? Maybe we should start our own airline and call it BigAss Air and our motto could be “we’ll fly your fat ass any where in the world, one at a time…”
Yeah, Smith is fat. But he’s not that fat, unless he’s gained another 100lbs since I last saw him.