You can stop many people with a lawsuit apparently in USA...
Of course it is better not to be in *bad* debt in the first place..

I love how Webrecon states that this will help their collection efforts by giving them 4 different options when dealing with an sue happy client- one of them being, GO STRAIGHT TO LAWSUIT to collect on the money before they have a chance to sue.

Some of these collection companies MUST realize there are errors out there, that can't be a smart move on them to do that.

Welcome back, the "Do as I say and not as I do" Hypocrites! And only for $99/month!

@verucalise: I guess a good defence is a good offence.

I imagine I'm on that list. They didn't believe me when I said the debt wasn't valid, didn't accept my proof, and then acted astonished when I sued them after their repeated violations of the law.

Interestingly, the company has vanished from their location and there is no more false debt on my credit report.

I've seen these web recon asshats all over my consumer blog (in the web stats) www.fivemilliondots.com I expose and fight idiot FDCPA violating debt collectors and debt collection law firms.

@hypoxia: I counter sued an agency that I had paid but could not keep their records straight to save their life. It was fun watching the judge tell them how stupid they are and that I had better record keeping than they did. I noticed another agency that had been bothering me about a zombie debt and for a wrong amount quit sending me letters after I won the suit.

they also stop when you pay your bills you deadbeats

@Obijuan:

Lol.

@verucalise: I'm not a lawyer, but I've done some pro-se work and I can say, at least in my circuit court (Cook County), the first thing the judge will ask when it reaches his bench is "Have you tried to work out a settlement?" If the defendant mentions that he or she was sued without any contact (e.g. "GO STRAIT TO LAWSUIT") the judge will pretty much throw it out. Judges don't like their time wasted, and going strait to lawsuit without any contact or attempt to collect as seen as a waste of their time. For which they punish severely.

@Obijuan: You might try reading some of the other comments. One guy did pay his debt and they still didn't stop.

Obijuan: You make 'them' sound so bad.

--

Anyway, if you get a collection call, send a limited cease and desist.

@Obijuan: Sometimes the debt isn't valid- I don't think this list is limited to people owing the debt. I get a LOT of calls from debt collection companies, harassing me, actually calling me a liar when I say "THERE IS NO PAUL HERE. THIS IS THE SO AND SO RESIDENCE" and continue to call even when I tell them this, discussing the debt! It's illegal to discuss a debt to anyone but the person responsible and I would be furious if a company called my parents or employer to ask them about payments and disclose information.

And please keep an open mind- many people WANT to pay their debts but losing their jobs, medical problems, ETC will put a people back and they have a choice. Pay a credit card, or pay for food. I hope to never have to make that choice.

@ColoradoShark: i wasn't directing this to any of the people posting here it was meant to be directed at the people suing companies while they still have debt as a way to get them off there back.

@Obijuan: No they don't, I constantly get robo-calls from collections for the previous owner of my phone number, years after it was assigned to me. It's like spam, it doesn't stop.

This industry relies on their records and doesn't have any reasonable provisions for error correction, even though it should be expected.

@Obijuan: I think your at the wrong website, and you get no points for stating the obvious; that's not the point of these articles.

@humphrmi: My experience in Small Claims is that arbitration/adjunction is part of the process. A court officer, like a lawyer, mediates the claims to see if it can be solved before hitting the judge.

But then again, what's to stop a collector from saying they tried contacting the debtor through mail with no response. As long as they don't contradict themselves later, there is no proof that they did not send stuff in the mail.

@Obijuan: If companies stopped braking the law, and kept their records straight, they would win those suits.

@Obijuan: Thank you for clarifying, as I took it the wrong way as well.

Yes, I agree on a certain level. The people who sit around and wait for the day they can prove the debt collection company violated the law to sue- that's not right. But, on the same level- these companies shouldn't be giving people reasons to sue as they have. People don't pay their bills and get bombarded, harassed, and berated on all sorts of levels. These companies need to understand that if they are LOSING these lawsuits- then maybe they shouldn't be in business.

@verucalise:

Ya, whatever happened to the good old days when bill collectors just came to your house with a board with a nail in it? I'm feeling all nostalgic now.

@silver-bolt: Judges aren't idiots. They want to see signatures on things like delivery attempts. Collectors that come into court without written evidence are even more severely punished.

@Obijuan: It doesn't work that way. If it is a valid debt your going to owe it no matter what. If they violate FDCPA in the process and you can prove it that is a separate matter but you can also sue for that. Suing and winning a FDCPA suit doesn't mean you no longer owe a debt.

I have had two fraudulent debt collectors try to get me to pay them money both for debts the original creditors stated repeatedly I didn't owe anything on. Both were fly by night collection agencies with rip off report type listings on their misdeeds all over the internet.

I have had a legit agency screw up their own records and refuse to even look at their accounts when I pointed out that I paid a debt. I had to take it to court before they would even look at their files. I kept good records, the judge handed their asses to them.

People can end up in debt without being the stereotypical "deadbeat". Half of the bankruptcies are for medical bills and most of those people had insurance. Nobody middle class as a spare $20-50 grand hanging around to pay major medical bills and some providers won't write off or give people enough time to pay them down. I have seen people literally lose their homes because medical providers were collecting so much they couldn't pay their other bills.

@Obijuan: Thanks for the tip. I was getting robocalls from a collector for the previous owner of my house. Clearly I must pay his debt, or I'm a deadbeat. Thanks.

@humphrmi: There was a woman for a while giving out my home phone number to her debtors, her son's truancy officer, and her parole officer. It was super-awesome. That's about when I just quit ever answering the phone.

(The truancy officer was actually the hardest one to get to stop calling.)

@henwy: Not sure where those bill collectors went, but I can direct you towards a lovely gang, errr, group of men that make a business out of snapping kneecaps, errr, politely asking for their money back.

Really sweet guys, honestly- decent interest rates and payback programs to suit your needs.

ahhhh, I miss Uncle Vinny.

@nytmare: I also have numerous debt collectors calling me nonstop from 8am to 10pm, no matter how many times I tell them that I am NOT the person they're looking for (also the previous owner of my number). Three years this has been going on. Surely they realize that people do move, and people do change their numbers. To keep harassing someone just because you're looking for another person and only have an outdated phone number to go on is outrageous. Can I sue for that?

Nations Bank sent the collection agency Pressler and Pressler after me. Mountains of paperwork. Motions for summery judgement. Months and months. If I was any sicker and let just one thing slip by they would have attached my disability income. It is illeagle to attach a disability income but leagle council I had early on said they were doing it anyway. The public assistance Lawyer couldn't contine with me on to court and I was on my own.
They got me in a room before going in front of the Judge and really put the pressure on for the $7,000 plus balance. Having paid more then the principle charges and noticing the tacked on bogus, unaccountable fees I offered $200 to settle out. They said no. We went before the Judge. The Judge asked the atterny if he had a witness to the accounting of the tacked on fees. The answer was NO then we had a break. A gentleman in the back of the courtroom motioned me to come over to him. He wispered to me, "When the Judge comes back, ask him just like this:Judge, I would like you to dismiss this case WITH PREJUDICE.". And thats exactly what he did! They got nothing and can never come back after me! I felt a little bad for the Pressler & Pressler atterny. I got over it.

My attitude is, f*ck all debt collectors. They are parasites, feeding on people who usually have already paid more in interest and fees than the original debts.

I went through Debt Collector Hell™ back in the 1990s. I suffered a disabling back injury. I lost about a year of income, and I could not file bankruptcy because I had a worker's comp case pending... for three years. So, at the same time that the insurance company investigators were spying on me 24/7 for evidence that I was faking (I wasn't), I experienced every single debt collector trick.
They called my neighbors, my employers, and my relatives; they even harassed people with the same (common) last name whom I had never met. They freely gave out confidential information about me, until all my neighbors knew how much I owed and to whom. They called at all hours of the day and night. They ignored my employers' demands to stop calling me at work; one company got sick of it and fired me to stop the calls. They threatened me with arrest, and some even threatened to do me bodily harm.

After all that, none of them ever collected a dime. All my debts were discharged under Chapter 7. I rebuilt my credit at great expense, even buying a truck through Fairlane Motor Credit at 17.99% APR and paying it off. Now, I have a prime fixed-rate mortgage on a nice home (not in negative equity) and a credit score in the mid-700's; the bankruptcy itself is the only smudge on my credit reports, and it falls off this year.

@bohemian: Half of the bankruptcies are for medical bills and most of those people had insurance.

Unfortunately, the 1973 HMO Act also included a scarcely-noticed change to the Declaration of Indendence:

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.

This change was necessary since, at the time of the document's writing, as all men (n., 1776) is not the same as all men (n., 2009). Modern usage of the term commonly assumes inclusion of women, the poor, and black people.

@Michael Belisle: There has been a lot of talk about the verbiage following "pursuit"... some scholars maintain that only the pursuit of Justice was protected, and happiness was too vague to be applicable in the 18th century and beyond. So if you exclude life and the pursuit (of whatever), you're left with Liberty.

Which we've been very good at maintaining lately.

At the same time, I'd really like to know where, aside from standard business practices, the 1973 HMO Act actually specifically retracts life. Gotta reference?

Some (for sure at least one) collection agencies are doing "account tasting" without having a legal assignment. That is, they don't really buy the debt; they just get minimal information on the debts to "evaluate whether or not to buy it". But it's enough information to file a lawsuit (e.g. they have debtor name, original creditor name, and amount). They just file suit on every account in the portfolio and track the activity. Those that get a default judgment, they then buy. Those that resisted (e.g. filed a denial response and demand a court date), they just dismiss on before the defendant can ask for "with prejudice". If such a suit actually went to trial, it would be quickly defeated by a smart defendant asking for the plaintiff to show standing (e.g. document of assignment of debt) to sue.

@oldgraygeek:

My attitude is, f*ck all debt collectors. They are parasites, feeding on people who usually have already paid more in interest and fees than the original debts.

Now with that said, collectors have to stay within the confines of the law. Many, from what I hear, don't...but the folks on the other end are often unfamiliar with the law and just let things slide. As I recall, 15 USC 1681 and 1692 basically make every item you mentioned highly illegal. You could easily have sued them for, IIRC, $1000 for each incident...which sounds like it would have added up to quite a nice sum.

@MedicallyNeedy: They can still sell the debt and the new buyer can still sue. It would be easy to defeat, but you have to be sure to do it and not let a default judgment take place.

Option D is interesting: "hand them to their most experienced collector to be processed with extra care"

So it sounds like too many debt collectors are using insufficiently experienced/trained collectors for the majority of cases.

@humphrmi: Judges also don't require out of the ordinary means for proof. Until a company has been proven a liar or unreliable, the normal means of mailing, US First Class (Or even Bulk Rate Second class), which has no tracking or proof of mailing, is expected. This is the why, in NJ, NY, and FL, from personal experience, First Class is acceptable for Parking Tickets, Regular Tickets, Court Appearance mailings, and regular government mail, without the need for Certificate of Mailing, or Return Receipt or anything.

Think about the last court appearance you received for a ticket. Even if you really didn't receive the mailing, or they never sent it, you are still responsible for it, with no proof on the government's side that you did receive it or they did send it.

In short, unless a creditor or debt collector is required to by law to get signature confirmation of receipt of their mail, just saying they sent out something in the mail is accepted as true.

My old supervisor once had our overall boss get on the phone and rip a creditor who would call him at work at least twice a day. They stopped calling after that. BTW, does anyone know if that's legal?

It's always interesting to read these stories and the posts that come with them. Debt collection is one of those fields, like car sales, that has utterly lost people's faith, and generally for good reason. Most firms use uneducated kids whose only qualifications are a bad attitude, no shame, and a bullying personality to make the calls. Nobody wants to take their calls because nobody expects to speak to a real, fellow human.

I'm an attorney that, in part, collects debts (I don't represent credit cards or the like). Most people avoid my calls and ignore my letters. Those that I talk to are shocked that I treat them with respect and as a result they almost always follow through on deals. My successful collection ratio is actually quite high because of it. (Then again, I also don't tack on fees and more to the principal, like some do.)

Then again, some of the debtors I speak to are more belligerent than those in the worst stories I've read about collectors. I let people tell their sides, have polite discussions about the law, and am receptive to evidence they have. Still, I am often threatened, cursed at, etc. In almost every case, these are people that owe valid debts and end up paying more in interest, costs, etc. than if they just spoke to me.

In any event, the illegal tactics from some agencies come from using kids who don't know the law and don't care because the job is temporary, and the firm condoning or encouraging it while denying it. When law firms do it, I'm surprised, because we operate under such strict ethical rules and most illegal behaviors are either ineffective or easily punishable (or both). I guess those without scruples figure it's worth the risk.

@oldgraygeek:
Most of the people I pursue for debts haven't paid a dime and simply stick their heads in the sand, assuming that no one will ever try to collect. I represent local banks and small, mostly family-owned businesses that are hurting badly due to being stiffed by so many customers. Many will either go out of business or go to cash-only payment policies.

@Skaperen:
Another aspect of this: many agencies will call and call, but when there is no positive response, they reject the account and the debt moves to the next agency. I have clients who have been pursued by as many as a dozen different agencies for the same debt, one after the next. It's obnoxious, of course, and I'm sure it's a symptom of what you're describing. That's one of the reasons I file suit fairly early. Not only does it wake people up, but it provides a clear opportunity to provide evidence of any defenses the debtor has. If I'm reasonably convinced, I will dismiss the case.

I wonder if my two out of court settlements against AAC and Midland would put me on this list of people not to bother with...

@silver-bolt:

Think about the last court appearance you received for a ticket. Even if you really didn't receive the mailing, or they never sent it, you are still responsible for it, with no proof on the government's side that you did receive it or they did send it.

Yeah but if you go to court and say "I didn't get it", the judge will dismiss it.

Again, from personal experience.

@humphrmi: HA! I wish. In my experience, I still get the late fees tacked on.

@MercerCh00x:
In the UK you don't even have to sue them - I drafted up a letter for my girlfriend when she had debt collectors coming after her pointing out just how many regulations and laws they were in violation of.

Two days later she got a letter from the debt collection agency's parent company telling her they'd opened an investigation into them and asking her to contact them if there were any more problems.

I'm sorry guys but I don't get it. Owing debt and not paying it is essentially stealing from whomever loaned you the money. When you refuse to pay them you should be opened up to things such as constant phone calls and being put on public lists. I understand that credit cards come with unreasonably high interest rates and it is easy to get into a hole but it is YOU who chose to get the card in the first place. If you are not mature enough to use a credit card properly you should not have one.

If I loaned somebody money in good faith and they ran off with it I would probably use "aggressive collection practices" too.

@Skaperen: Dismissed "with prejudice." means it's done. Over with.
I was told to emphasize the "with prejudice" part. The judge repeated it back "This case is dismissed With Prejudice." gavel bang!

Just send the debt collectors a certified letter stating you wish them to stop contacting you. Presto! They stop. It is the law.
Yes, they may sell your account to someone else and you would have to repeat the process. You have to decide if it is worth it to you.

@humphrmi: I had one even casing my last house! The previous owners racked up some very large debts and then moved abroad. My house was being cased by some lady in a Saab who I later discovered was a debt collector.

Part of my problem was that the title for my house had not been properly transferred. Rather than listing ME as the owner, it listed me + the previous owner.

@MedicallyNeedy: Dismissing with prejudice means that that deb collector cannot sue any more. It does not legally discharge the debt, so selling to a new collector means the new collector can sue, as they are not a party to the previous dismissed lawsuit.

If you want to block webrecon here are the IP's I found in my web logs.

96.30.10.212 host.webrecon.net
96.30.14.136 indexer.webrecon.net

What about people who are targeted by them who don't have any debt? Similar name, old phone number, etc? How do you stop that harassment?