Wal-Mart Employee Trampled To Death As Mob Tears Doors Off Hinges

The New York Times is reporting that a temporary employee of a suburban New York Walmart was trampled to death when a throng of shoppers tore down the front doors of the store and surged inside.

At 4:55 this morning, a group of 2,000 shoppers began pushing at the doors of the Walmart in Valley Stream, NY. The mob broke the doors off of their hinges and pushed inside the store, knocking down Jdimypai Damour, 34. No one helped him as he lay on the floor.

The NYT says:

People did not stop to help the employee as he lay on the ground, and they pushed against other Wal-Mart workers who were trying to aid Mr. Damour. The crowd kept running into the store even after the police arrived, jostling and pushing officers who were trying to perform CPR, the police said.

“They were like a stampede,” said Nassau Det. Lt. Michael Fleming. “Hundreds of people walked past him, over him or around him.”

Mr. Damour was taken from the Wal-Mart to nearby Franklin Hospital, where he was pronounced dead at 6:03 a.m., the police said.

The NYT said that crowds were allowed to begin forming at 9pm the previous night. The police were called at around 3:30 AM, but were apparently overwhelmed by calls from other stores.

At the time the doors were broken, several Walmart employees, including the one who died, were trying to hold the doors in place but were overwhelmed by the crowd.

Wal-Mart Employee Trampled to Death [NYT]

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  1. WiglyWorm must cease and decist says:

    Yes. “Employee is a top concern” said their spokesperson.

    Is that why they hired no professional security?

    I’m surprised we haven’t gotten a “taking it seriously” out of them, but then, we still might as this progresses.

    • wickedpixel says:

      @WiglyWorm: I agree Walmart probably should have hired professional security, but the mob seems far more at fault than the store on this one.

      • WiglyWorm must cease and decist says:

        @wickedpixel: Oh, without a doubt the mob actions are dispicable and the larger concern here.

        This wasn’t all that hard to forsee, though. Black Friday has been getting more and more chaotic, and this was only a matter of time. Security should have been present or police on hand. Just because the crowd acted like animals doesn’t excuse the fact that the company was also negligent, IMO.

      • DH405 says:

        @wickedpixel: My concerns there are that the “Black Friday” phenomenon as a whole is engineered to create this frenzy. The reason they do that is that it also creates a situation where these easily-manipulated customers will buy about anything the major retailers put in front of them.

        The store created a monster in people, and one of its little disposable handlers got killed. I say it’s open season on Wal-Mart for the lawyers handling this poor man’s estate.

        • omgretail says:

          @SMSDHubbard: You’re right about that. People forget that this is seriously scientifically engineered (probably with more R&D than cancer drugs) by agencies hired by these huge companies.

          We’ve seen it over and over, year after year, and still these things keep happening. I feel like it’s time to take some action against Black Friday and I don’t mean Buy Nothing Day. I think it’s time (next year) to go around and remind people what they’re doing. Whether it be with big signs, or physically blocking the entrances to these places, I think it’s important that we stop this ourselves.

        • Parting says:

          @SMSDHubbard: I don’t care who adverstised. If you cannot stop to help someone, then you’re a piece of sh@t. Cattle.

          Common decency, is THAT dead and buried?

          • DH405 says:

            @Meltdown: You’re a piece of shot? Perhaps an exclamation point would be a better surrogate? Or you can just say the word shit. Nobody will cry or get their feelings hurt.

            Here’s what you’re completely failing to see.. You are sitting at a computer making somewhat rational decisions. You are warm. You are comfortable. You are well-rested.

            Due to the way the whole Black Friday is engineered, people have been sleeping on a sidewalk in the cold, possibly being rained on. They are humans, and humans are animals. Try as you might to make yourself feel above this, you are a glorified primate. When presented with a certain set of environment + stimuli, people behave in certain ways. It is cause > effect with a relatively high rate of consistency.

            When these people, stripped of their “civilized” morality by their situation, are put in this position, they are not able to make such reasonable decisions. They panic, they do stupid crazy shit. They’ll knock your mother over for a Wii.

            Wal-Mart KNOWS this. You think they don’t have books and books of data on this phenomenon? They know how it works and they know what happens. They keep on recreating it again and again. Why? Money. They make LOTS of money. They don’t care about this employee. Go to his funeral. See if you can spot a Walton. Not. Gonna. Happen.

            • slopirate says:

              @SMSDHubbard: Nobody forced them into that environment. They CHOSE to wait in line. They CHOSE to break down the doors. And they CHOSE to not help him up when he fell or call for help when he was injured.

              Luckily, this cause > effect does NOT occur with a high rate of consistency as you say. There are hundreds of Wal-Marts around the country and thousands were lined up in front of them, yet this is the only one where someone was trampled to death.

              Humans may merely be “glorified primates” as you say, but part of what makes us glorified is personal responsibility for our actions. This mob was not a victim of Wal-Mart or a victim of their environment. The responsibility (and blame) rests on them.

    • MrsLopsided says:

      @WiglyWorm:
      “Employee is a top concern”
      Let’s see if they Walmart tries to weasel out of it by pointing out he employed by a temp agency.

      • Anonymous says:

        @MrsLopsided: I feel like a horrible devil’s advocate here, but the temp employee is slightly at fault himself, unless his assignment from the temp agency was to do security. All temp agencies require that if the temp is asked to do something not in their job description, the temp is to call the agency immediately, and it sounds as if he was indeed asked to do something outside his job description, ie, to hold the doors closed. Having said that, however, I need to make it clear that GREED is the real culprit here, plain old American greed, and I in no way blame the temp.

    • Anonymous says:

      It is no secret that Walmart won’t do many things, such as hire professional security when they could have predicted a need for it. This reason is that these things cost money. Just one lawsuit for one employee death will not break them, even if they settle, which they will likely not. (They usually fight.) This is the real reason that they are so profitable. (Are you really surprised?)

    • trk182 says:

      @WiglyWorm: Pretty sure after seeing 2000 people storm into Walmart and trample a guy,that if I were an employee I woulda said “Fuck this” and left out the back.

  2. trujunglist says:

    Jesus christ, what the hell is wrong with people? Saving $50 on a flatscreen TV is not worth someone dying! Everyone in that store should be brought up on charges; involuntary manslaughter, breaking and entering, and destruction of private property. I doubt I’ve been more disgusted in my life.

    • Anonymous says:

      @trujunglist: I’m not sure if I could possibly agree with you more. The police should’ve rounded up every one of the sheeple in that store and then closed it down. They needed to take every one of those soulless soccer moms/dads and impress upon them their very insignificance and that of their families and children in terms of the society as a whole. This is a byproduct (in part) of the I’m special mentality that runs rampant in this country. I wan to be sick, but even more than that I want to line up each of the clowns that rushed that store and trampled another human being under their feet for literally no reason at all (not that their are many good reasons, but it’s not as if they were fleeing imminent danger) and hit each of them in the mouth with a crow bar.

    • bobcatred says:

      @trujunglist: I would love to see the look on a judge’s face when 500 defendants were brought into the courtroom for that.

      But seriously, you’re right. there is NOTHING in Wal-Mart worth acting like spooked cattle for. Breaking down doors is bad enough, but killing some poor employee who was just trying to do his minimum-wage job?

      Wal-Mart better be ready to offer combat pay on Black Friday from now on.

    • TechnoDestructo says:

      @trujunglist:

      It isn’t like they all aren’t on video.

    • Anonymous says:

      I couldn’t agree more with the fact that I too have never been so digusted, not only with these horrible selfish people, but also with the way that Wal-Mart was so greedy, that they would put an innocent minnimum wage earning employee who was just trying to do their job, in danger because they’re too cheap to get professional security to handle this situation.

    • proskills says:

      @trujunglist: It looks like next year some of these store should really consider riot gear and tear gas to prevent this from happening again.

    • CharlieInSeattle says:

      @trujunglist: You are absolutely spot on, and hell the officers should have taken out a few while they were being pushed around.

      • Yokai Monsters Spook Warfare says:

        @CharlieInSeattle: If I were one of those cops, I would have taken out my gun and fired a warning shot – I bet those people would have stopped bumping into them pretty quickly after that…

        ah well, hindsight is always 20/20

    • joellevand says:

      @trujunglist: I agree with you 100%. There are security cameras. Most probably paid by credit card. Charge the murderous m*f*ers with manslaughter AND breaking and entering since they BROKE THE F**KING DOORS OFF to enter the store while the employees were trying to keep them out since the STORE WASN’T EVEN OPEN YET!

      OMG, I’d love to stomp on the backs of each and every one of those people myself. See how they like being crushed. Grrr. I’m so angry about this, I could scream.

    • Anonymous says:

      my heart goes out to the family of Jdimypai Damour. I can’t even begin to comprehend the mindset of the shoppers waiting to get their greedy hands on that fantastic deal that day. talk about a win/win situation here. cheap deals (and i’m referring to price and qualilty) for the customers, and huge profits for the company. I smell bonuses. And somewhere in the background is a grieving family trying to make sense of the f%*%^ senseless hell they’ve been thrown into. Disgusted beyong words, saddened to tears.

  3. katiat325 says:

    Wow. Are people really that desperate to buy some stupid appliance/t-shirt/razor/electronics? Seriously, people need to chill out over the whole “Black Friday” thing. Thank goodness I do my shopping either on off times when I know there are sales, or on the internet where I can find stuff twice as cheaper.
    My condolences to his family, and I hope karma gets those people that broke down that door.

    • KyleOrton says:

      @katiat325: I’m volunteering to handle crowd control at this or any other Walmart next year. Just let me in the night before with a baseball bat.

      I’m not trying to be macho heroic, saying I’d battle the crowd back. I’d just take an hour to smash all the cheap crap and send the people home to bed.

    • SpruceStreetPhil - in a new Pine flavor says:

      @amandakerik: I doubt any of these people have any sort of money that walmart or this poor man’s estate, may he r.i.p., want. I don’t know, but the type of people that seem so eager to break into a store seem like the type who would be strapped for cash, not possessing means for an attorney, and a plain ruckus in the courtroom. No one will want to take this to court, everyone will just blame it on everyone else, and the mob will rule once again.

  4. CyrusOpeth says:

    And in California, two men are dead in a shootout at a Toys R Us.

    People LOVE to buy crap. The day after Thanksgiving has turned into a Vegas-like experience, where anything people do has an automatic, built-in excuse.

    • Cafezinha says:

      @CyrusOpeth: In fairness, though, I believe the people involved in the shooting had conflict completely unrelated to Black Friday madness–there were just an unfortunate number of people who had to witness the shooting because the store was packed with shoppers.

    • Parting says:

      @CyrusOpeth: At Toys R us, it’s a ”Darwin awards” type of situation. Luckily, innocent bystanders weren’t hurt.

      At Walmart, it’s murder for a crappy special.

  5. Whiskey Tango Foxtrot says:

    I simply cannot comprehend HOW somebody can calmly step over somebody lying on the ground and go about their business ESPECIALLY in a situation like this. I read that people were getting angry that they *had to leave* once the Police arrived and closed the store because they hadn’t finished shopping yet. They didn’t give a rats ass that somebody was dead. And people wonder why this world is going to Hell in a handbasket.

    • bobcatred says:

      @Neecy: See, here’s the bad part: To kill him, they didn’t step OVER him. They stepped ON him.

    • jwissick says:

      @Neecy: You are under the mistaken impression that it was calm and the people who stomped on him were able to avoid doing so. They were being pushed by the mob outside. It’s like being a small boat in heavy surf. The crowd moves, you move. You can’t control it. You resist it and you may be trampled yourself.

      The people did no wrong. It was the store’s fault. They failed to control the mob.

      Black Friday door busters like this need be to either tightly controlled or outlawed.

      • thrashanddestroy says:

        @jwissick: Wow, just wow. You’ve won the award for most ignor-fucking-ant thing I’ve read on Consumerist ever.

        • omgretail says:

          @thrashanddestroy: I disagree. If you’ve ever been to a somewhat rowdy concert, you know how these things work.

          • thrashanddestroy says:

            @omgretail: A concert, with restless fans behind you, is one thing. A swarm of indignant assholes breaking down a door, crushing another person to death and not stopping to help because their precious 32″ LCD might sell out is entirely different.

            I’m not arguing the mechanics of a surging crowd, jwissick’s complete and absolute dickbaggery comes from the rest of his poorly formed opnion.

            When a crowd of people are cited as breaking down the entrance, it is CLEARLY their fault and not the store’s.

            • Trai_Dep says:

              @thrashanddestroy: Wow, you’re ignorant. You really need to get out more. Look up “mob” and all of the meanings center around unthinking, unreasoning, uncontrollable masses.
              I’m wryly amused that someone with “thrash” in their screenname is so unknowing of the behavior of crowds. Ironic, that.

              Look. Crowd control is a science, the most basic rules of which is, never allow a critical mass of them to gather, since control is quickly lost over a certain number. Second rule is plan routes for surging masses to flow that are safe. Third is to staff well enough to control the crowd when things get unsafe. Note that #2 and #3 are wishful thinking if #1 is ignored, which Wal-Mart did in this case.

              THAT is where the calls for Wal-Mart responsibility come from. They knew better, but it’d get in the way of their building a buying frenzy to con the Black Friday rubes into buying crap they don’t need. Can’t have that, right?

              There’ IS some limited culpability for the first several people trampling on the poor employee, sure. In the sense that one’s responsible if, when fleeing a burning building by dropping two floors, he lands on, and kills a passer-by. But if the hotel negligently locked all fire exits, the ultimate responsibility rests with the company. Painful as it might be for you to assign blame to mega-corps. They’re wrong. And so are you.

          • Trai_Dep says:

            @omgretail: Hear, hear. I’d wager that the degree that people think it’s an person enmeshed in a large moving crowd of people’s fault rather than the venue’s (store’s) fault is a person who’s never, ever been to a concert. Especially in the SRO, up-front type. Anything real, in other words.
            Err, Céline Dion’s Vegas show don’t count, troopers. Don’t embarrass yourself (even more) by bolstering your cred with that show, hmmmm?

            • joellevand says:

              @Trai_Dep: Guess what, been to NIN, Manson, and others — at the front and in the pit. Never stepped on someone, never been crushed, always got to the back when I needed a break. I’m 5’2″.

              Your analogy, like so many others, is full of fail.

              • Trai_Dep says:

                @joellevand: But the masses aren’t hurtling forward at running speed. It’s more like a sea rocking back and forth in a cove. And, as you point out, with an easy out: head backwards and the crowd parts cooperatively around you.
                My point was, imagine the relative lack of control that you experience at a SRO event, only when everyone’s sprinting forward. Where the only escape is by hurtling forward even faster. Imagine how fragile a skull is when hurled onto a tile floor. Possible that some might find themselves in a difficult-to-control situation? Just a bit? (It only takes a half-second of loss of control to send some poor, temporary worker crashing down hard on the floor, recall)

                I’ve been at a lot of events as well, and more times than I can count, I’ve had to brace myself over 5’2″ people who’ve slipped and to see the sheer terror in their face as they fear the worst melt into relief when they see the crowd has the time (because no one is sprinting forward) is a magical thing. None of that would be possible if we were in a Running of the Bulls type situation.

                Before you hop on the Epic Fail bandwagon, try a smidgeon of empathy. These are similar, but not identical situations. C’mon, you’re better than that. :)

                And for the record, like many here, I think some responsibility is in the hands of whomever knocked the guy down. Of course. But I strongly doubt it was purposeful. And the majority of Fail (so to speak) rests with the idiot managers who where hoping to make this year’s Worst BF Rush on YouTube. They’re the criminals, since they set all the balls in motion then sat back, snickering.

                • Edjamacator says:

                  @Trai_Dep:

                  I don’t buy any of this nonsense. First off, a mob wouldn’t start “rocking” without intent. There had to be a point where some people in the mob decided to try and push forward. You can’t say “the mob” did it because that’s not assigning any blame to people’s willful intent. A mob of people standing in one place won’t cause anyone to be trampled. People pushing each other to get somewhere will.

                  So who started the push? People in the back? If I’m in a mob and the person behind me starts to push, I can push back. Especially if it’s only one person. So if those in the back started to push, it wasn’t just the ones in the very back. Others had to allow themselves to be pushed all down the “line” without resisting. Those in the middle and the front, though, I can see being unable to push back. But still, there were people who wanted to go forward who could have been stopped, and people who didn’t stop them.

                  The stores aren’t to blame for Black Friday. People are to blame. It doesn’t matter how engineered BF is, or how great the sales are supposed to be, or anything. People have a free choice about how they behave, and what they choose to do, and at least many of these “people” choose to give into mob mentality and kill a person.

                  Of course, Walmart is at fault for keeping the store open and letting those animals buy stuff. “Don’t mind the dead man, we have 8 lanes open!”

                  • SadSam says:

                    @Edjamacator: @Neecy:

                    There is more than enough blame to go around. The individuals that made up the mob for staying up all night to buy Wal-Mart crap on sale. The mob for crushing this poor man to death. Amd Wal-Mart for encouraging people to stay up all night to buy cheap made in China crap and for not providing enough security or crowd management. There are other stores, IKEA comes to mind, that encourage this sleep outside all night for some cheap and/or free crap but they manage it and no one dies because there is a good plan in place and enough cheap crap that everyone can get their fair share.

          • joellevand says:

            @omgretail: Yeh, and as I’ve already commented above three times — been to more than enough rock concerts to know that YOU CAN STOP YOURSELF.

            And I should point out I’m 5’2″ and about 145 lbs.

        • Trick says:

          @thrashanddestroy:

          Wal*Malt attempted to control these animals by keeping them out of their *CLOSED* store. These animals broke the door down.

          Wal*Mart has their issues but to blame them for what these animals did is sheer stupidity.

      • ngc6027 says:

        @jwissick: Three words to begin: What the fuck?

        Now the rest: …are you thinking? “The people did no wrong” my ass. If someone was pushing me and I saw someone laying on the ground, I would beat the shit out of them. If the people trampled the man, they are absolutely to blame. Especially the people pushing, but not them exclusively. The people in the front trampled him, broke the door off the hinges, and fucking killed him. I agree with trujunglist, every single person that didn’t stop should be charged for killing him. They’re all to blame for this.

        • WiglyWorm must cease and decist says:

          @ngc6027:

          The people did no wrong” my ass. If someone was pushing me and I saw someone laying on the ground, I would beat the shit out of them.

          But that’s just it. If you tried, you would likely suffer the same fate. You would either keep moving with the flow, or be trampled yourself. You may not even know there is someone on the ground under you while you’re in the situation.

          Especially the people pushing, but not them exclusively. The people in the front trampled him, broke the door off the hinges, and fucking killed him.

          The crowd was at least 200 people. Those behind the front few rows didn’t see it happen, and those in the front few rows were powerless to stop, unless they wanted to be bowled over as well.

          I agree with trujunglist, every single person that didn’t stop should be charged for killing him. They’re all to blame for this.

          Despite everything I’ve said above, I still agree with this. I would have at the very least locked all those mother-fuckers in the store, made them see what they did, and cited them with disorderly conduct, trespassing, inciting a riot, involuntary manslaughter, and anything else I could have thought of.

          • joellevand says:

            @WiglyWorm:

            But that’s just it. If you tried, you would likely suffer the same fate. You would either keep moving with the flow, or be trampled yourself. You may not even know there is someone on the ground under you while you’re in the situation.

            Bullshit.

        • trk182 says:

          @ngc6027: You’re gunna beat the shit out of a crowd of 2000? U R NINJA!!!

      • Mary says:

        @jwissick: “The people did no wrong.”

        I completely disagree. I’ve been in my share of huge crowds of unruly people and it IS possible to not trample a person to death. While not every person who may have pushed over this man’s body is neccesarily at fault, and while some of them might harbor a lot of guilt because they couldn’t move in any other direction the fact is that it absolutely is the fault of the mob.

        No, no one person takes the entire blame in this situation. But the fact that it happened? Maybe some blame falls on the store for not finding ways to control the situation, but the bulk of the blame does fall on the people stampeding to get in the store.

        Pushing a person just to get in a little faster is despicable. There’s never an excuse for it.

      • joellevand says:

        @jwissick:

        You are under the mistaken impression that it was calm and the people who stomped on him were able to avoid doing so. They were being pushed by the mob outside. It’s like being a small boat in heavy surf. The crowd moves, you move. You can’t control it. You resist it and you may be trampled yourself.

        I’m calling BS on this.

        How many rock concerts have you been in the pit for, when the main act (NIN, Manson, whoever) gets on stage and the entire GA section crushes forward?

        I’ve been in more than a few, and let me tell you, you can resist. You can stop it. Anyone who says otherwise simply didn’t give a shit. End of story.

    • smonkey says:

      @Neecy: Sadly, they were probably forced to step on him from the people behind them. I use to work concert security. 6’3” 310 lbs and part of my job was to help people who fell to the floor of the venue. Even with my size sometimes I’d get tossed about. I think no one is explcity at fault her, the people at the back don’t know that there is someone down in front, they just want in, forcing the people to step somewhere or risk being trampled themselves.

      • joellevand says:

        @smonkey: Weird, in all the GA “seating” rock concerts I’ve been to, I’ve NEVER been forced to the front and have ALWAYS been able to back out easily when the crush at the front got to be too much.

      • ShizaMinelli says:

        @smonkey: Oh lord, I was almost trampled to death at a concert once, and I’m only about 60 pounds under you! It’s amazing, people HAVE to keep moshing to fucking Good Charlotte (I was 18, free tickets, and my friend wanted to go lol) while someone lies on the ground. I almost got my fingers crushed and then lost my wind when a 400 pound whale in a micro-mini decided to pile on top of me (good god it stank, whatever “it” was, I didn’t want to find out!!!). I got lucky, though, ONE person in the whole group said “WHAT THE FUCK PEOPLE, SOMEONE FELL!!!). I was scared shitless though!

    • shufflemoomin says:

      @Neecy: The country isn’t going to hell in a handbasket, the US is. If the world is going, the US is leading the way.

  6. wickedpixel says:

    Do people not realize the term “Door Buster Sale” wasn’t meant to be taken literally? They should use a combination of sales receipts and security footage to prosecute everyone involved. Mob-mentality isn’t an excuse for trampling someone to death in order to save $8 on a video game.

    • DH405 says:

      @wickedpixel: The problem with this is that you can’t tell who did the actual pushing in a mob. The people pressed directly against the poor person or the doors might not be pushing. They’re more than likely just being shoved by the group of jerks about three assholes back.

      • XianZomby says:

        @SMSDHubbard: Yes look at reciepts. If you actually bought something after you learned a person had been killed by the mob you were a part of, then you are guilty. A sane person would have left the store — their shopping enthusiasm completly gone.

        • DH405 says:

          @XianZomby: It’s not a crime to lack enough compassion to give up an entire night’s effort over seeing someone get stepped on. I’ll bet 95% of the people in there had no idea that the man’s injuries were so serious.

          • Parting says:

            @SMSDHubbard: Oh yes it is! If you leave a person in distress, without any attempt to help, then you can get charged. 911 call is the least you can do.

            • DH405 says:

              @Meltdown: So, with all of the other employees there helping this guy, you think this still applies? So if I pass by an auto accident with people already on the scene it’s a crime?

              You make a weak argument here.

  7. karmaghost says:

    So did they rush into the store because the doors came off, or did they rush in when they were allowed and the doors came off as a result? If it was the latter, then why were they allowed to enter at all?

    • flidget says:

      @karmaghost: Sounds like they were pressed up against the doors in the minutes before the store was about to open – the doors gave, and they stampeded, all before the store officially opened.

    • parnote says:

      @karmaghost: Are you f*cking kidding??? What does it matter????? The man DIED. Who the hell cares why they rushed into the store. THE MAN DIED! And all in an effort to save a few $$$ on a few soon to be forgotten trivial gifts!

      You need to a) re-read the post (and the accompanying article from the NY Times), and b) re-evaluate your sense of right vs wrong.

    • trk182 says:

      @karmaghost: why were they allowed to enter at all?

      Are you a ninja too? mob of 2k people vs 60 or so employees?

    • insideedge says:

      My question is, is the almighty dollar that important to Wal-Mart that they could not close, send everyone out of the store and not accept peoples money after this happened?

      • rainbowsandkittens says:

        @insideedge: I tend to agree with your line of thinking the most in this scenario. While blame for the employee’s death should be assigned to the mob and the store based on security footage analysis, the fact that Wal Mart didn’t take steps to immediately close the store, coupled with the indignance of those who refused to stop shopping in the wake of this tragedy is what reeks the most here. Should the situation have been managed better from the beginning? Yes. But the lack of action afterwards shows a true lack of humanity. Remember, folks: if you are killed at Wal Mart, you are not important enough for them to close the store.

      • ShizaMinelli says:

        @insideedge: If I were the manager of that store, I woudl officially announce “Attention guests, all sales cancelled, store is closed, and I hope you all burn in hell” or something of the like. Remaining in business after something like that is just callous!

        • Oranges w/ Cheese says:

          @ShizaMinelli: Yeah, if I worked there and had access to the intercom – regardless of if it got me fired – I’d be all up ons “You people just killed someone to save a few dollars, shame on you all, now GTFO!”

  8. What The Geek says:

    here’s the thing – you can’t JUST blame the shoppers here. Yea, they trampled the guy, and that was extremely irresponsible and horrible of everyone present, but the bigger issue here is how our culture treats Black Friday. Stores hype their deals weeks in advance in some cases. They allow people to stand in front of the store for over eight hours, regardless of weather. What you wind up with is an anxious, tired, hungry, and cold mob. Why do companies do this? Profit. If Wal Mart had sent those people that were lining up at 9 PM last night home, this may not have happened. Sure, let people start lining up at 3 or 4 AM. An hr or two is no big deal, and the corwd most likely won’t be as big…. but that would hurt profits now wouldn’t it? The end result is one dead employee, and most likely, record breaking profits for that store. It needs to change.

    • corbyz says:

      @What The Geek: I disagree.

      I get the mailers every day in my mailbox about what’s going to be on sale. I toss them without looking at them, resenting the waste of paper.

      Most people don’t give a crap. Look at the comments here. No one is saying they would have done it, too. We’re all saying we don’t understand how people can get so worked up over saving five stinkin bucks on some useless consumer crap.

      I do blame these sheep who did the stampeding. They need some professional therapy or something.

      • What The Geek says:

        @corbyz: The marketing tactics I’m referring to, and the portion of our society I’m referring to don’t really apply to consumerist readers. Clearly, we make up the minority of the populace. It happens every year. This is the first time I can remember someone getting killed, but it happens every year – people charge in to stores at five in the morning on black friday, and store employees get hurt. I spent eight years in retail, and the only years I didn’t see it happen were the years I worked for a home improvement retailer – and that’s ’cause they don’t really get a huge amount of business on BF.

        Just because YOU don’t stampede stores due to marketing, and societal pressures doesn’t mean it doesn’t happen. We (and by “we” I mean consumers and retailers) built black friday up, and it’s time we started tearing it down.

      • Segador says:

        @corbyz: No, they need to be prosecuted, not counseled. Every person who pushed the door over should face manslaughter charges. They should have been ID’d immediately from storefront CCTV, then hauled off by the cops. That, and only that, might prevent this from happening in the future.

    • ninjatoddler says:

      @What The Geek: Don’t be a retard and blame the companies. Blame the managers who decided it would be a good idea to let people rush in as opposed to having customers stream in through well managed lines. They had a similar problem last year as well.

      • What The Geek says:

        @ninjatoddler: Yes, the managers totally should have seen this coming and put new reinforced hinges on the doors so the crazed mob couldn’t take the doors off the hinges to get into the store. They then should have lead that same crazed mob into the store in an orderly fashion, wagging their fingers vigorously at anyone who stepped out of line.

        Are you serious? Because if you were being sarcastic, bravo – you had me fooled. If not, think before you type. The mob TOOK THE DOORS OFF OF THEIR HINGES SO THEY COULD RUSH INTO THE STORE. No amount of planning, or crowd control on the part of the store managers could have prevented this. Like I said before, I spent eight black fridays in retail, most of them as management. You just can’t stop people from rushing into a store on Black Friday. You open the door, and they immediately push past / through you. No one “decided to let people rush in” – people just rushed in, because that’s what bargain crazed black friday shoppers do.

        • ninjatoddler says:

          @What The Geek: WTG. No offense but you’re unbelievably effin near-sighted. Management of 8 BF events and you tell me the crowd was to blame? Either you’re lying or there’s something wrong with you.

          Sure the crowd mowed down the doors. Sure they trampled of people. Sure there’s something wrong with society but don’t we know this already? Hurricane Katrina and the aftermath? Previous Wal-Mart BF events? These are the straight facts and any idiot can see that the crowd was to blame. Duh!

          CRAZED mob? Were they already “crazed” while waiting outside? Did the store impose orderly lines prior to the store opening cuz the last thing a store needs is a stampede and surely someone with retail management should know about similar past Wal-Mart problems.

          This is why stores have managers, security personnel, and the employees. A steady stream of customers is preferred to a tsunami attack.

          Just to make my point, here are 2 examples of 2 very different Wal-Mart management and their outcomes. Hint: One was prepared, had well managed lines outside along with security. Which do you prefer?

          • What The Geek says:

            @ninjatoddler: No matter how much prep the individual store does, they can’t always keep things orderly. Sure, if the store has barricades set up strategically to funnel customers in, and police officers on scene to keep things in line, it helps, but not always. One BF at a store I worked in, we set up barricades made of shopping carts to create a single file line to the door. We also had a cop at the entrance. The people knocked over the carts and pushed them aside, and when they started spilling in the doors, they just sort went around the cop. If the crowd is big enough, there isn’t a lot you can do to prevent chaos. You’re right that steps should be taken by management, but in a situation like the one in this article where the customers were rowdy enough to push the door off it’s hinges, nothing management could have done would have forced them to act in an orderly fashion.

          • ShizaMinelli says:

            @ninjatoddler: I think it would be fun to combine that “butter the floor then call the phone” prank with Black Friday :)

            The music in that first video had me cracking up, and it’s absolutely ridiculous. I guess I would be called an idiot, but even if there were people running behind me if I see someone go down in front of me I’m helping them up, it’s just the right thing to do, nothing more to it.

    • parad0x360 says:

      @What The Geek: Yes you can blame the shopper and JUST the shoppers.

      What kind of asshole people are these where they rip a door of its hinges then run through the store so quickly the guy cant move THEN they knock his ass down and STAMP ALL OVER HIM?

      The store isnt to blame here. Sick people are and they should identify those in the front of the line and arrest ever single one of them.

      • What The Geek says:

        @parad0x360: I definitely agree that the shoppers do deserve a large slice of the blame pie, but like I’ve said, I’ve seen similar scenarios at a variety of places I’ve worked. I had a friend who worked for a Walmart back in…. oh, I don’t know – 98 or 99, and one particular black friday saw a mob of people rush in that walmart, knock down the ONE ARMED GREETER and trample all over him. The only difference between that and this is that in the example from ten years ago, the guy didn’t die – just got bruised up a lot. The same thing happens year after year, and in every state. Do you really think there isn’t a bigger problem here than a crowd full of “sick” people? Is everyone who ever acted similarly on black friday sick? Or is there a bigger problem here? Do we as a society put too much importance on this one day, and the stuff we can buy at discounted prices on it?

        • DrGirlfriend says:

          @What The Geek: There is definitely enough blame to go around here. Ultimately the responsibility lies in the savages who stormed this store, but companies are not helping when they allow people to line up hours and hours in advance, allow big crwods to form, but then are completely unprepared for crowd control.

          I don’t see how starting a line at 9pm the night before is in any way necessary.

          • What The Geek says:

            @DrGirlfriend: absolutely right – yes, as I’ve said, the customers deserve a large part of the blame here – if you see a guy on the floor, stop. Just stop. Don’t move. Wait for him to get up, or for help to arrive.

            Retailers don’t just allow crowds to form, but rather encourage it – and that needs to stop. Door buster sales need to go away.

            BTW, The Venture Bros is easily one of the best things on TV. High five for the screen name, and pic.

          • ShizaMinelli says:

            @DrGirlfriend: “I don’t see how starting a line at 9pm the night before is in any way necessary.”

            If people will wait in that line, they’ll form it. They do, imo, have a responsibility to keep things in control by any measn possible, but they can’t be blmaed for the fact that some people are stupid enough to wait in line for 8 hours to get a discount on a TV. Whoever waits in that line CHOOSES to wait in that line, so they get 0 sympathy from me.

        • DrGirlfriend says:

          @What The Geek: And by the way, I am agreeing with your larger point, upon re-reading it seemed like I wasn’t :)

    • GoVegan says:

      @What The Geek: I have to agree. Just because I see a 1/2 off sale sign at a store across the street. It doesn’t give me the right to make an illegal U turn and run a red light to get there.

      • What The Geek says:

        @GoVegan: You’re totally right, and again, I’m not saying the customers should go w/o blame here – they reacted badly to the advertising hype created around BF by retailers. As far as I’m concerned, the blame is shared. No, the people didn’t have the right to trample the guy – they all acted horribly by doing so. All I’m saying is they’re not the first BF mob to ever do something shitty, and that’s a sign of a bigger problem. That’s a sign that those customers can share some of that blame with the retailers who create these volatile situations. Retailers actually refer to the timed sales that go only for the first two hours of the day as “door buster” sales. They want a crowd to line up, and rush in.If people have the perception that they have to go early to get a good price, then they will. If people feel like they have to run to save $100 on a new TV, the sad truth is, they will run. As the line gets bigger, the people in it get less civilized. It’s a horrible situation, and this time, it ended way worse than usual, to say the least. This man died because Walmart encouraged people to line up for the 5AM opening the night before, and because those people that lined up for EIGHT HOURS got out of hand. The responsibility for this crime is shared by both groups, the customers, and the retailers.

    • halo969 says:

      @What The Geek: I don’t think you have to defend yourself to these naysayers. You are absolutely correct. Ultimately it is on the companies who encourage this insane behavior. All for some discounted merchandise. I didn’t realize inanimate objects were more important than people’s lives.

      Besides, you can order most merchandise cheaper online without paying tax or shipping. That’s the only way I do Black Friday.

      • AlexJP says:

        @halo969: Sorry. Reasonable people don’t trample others to death for Wal-Mart merchandise. So far it seems Wal-Mart’s only mistake was opening up a store in Little Mogadishu.

        This is not like shouting fire in a crowded theater.

        • What The Geek says:

          @AlexJP: So, retailers create “door buster” sales to ensure people line up by the hundreds at 5AM so they don’t miss out on the sales, that line then rushes into the store (same as every black friday), and hurts, or in this case kills someone, and that retailer has no responsibility here even though they encouraged the formation of the mob? I’m not being sarcastic, or anything like that. I genuinely want you, and anyone else who disagrees with me to flat out say one way or the other that the retailer either does, or does not share responsibility for what happened. By creating a situation where not only was a mob guaranteed to form, but it was actually the desired effect of the sales they had, should the retailer share some of the responsibility for this crime?

          • AlexJP says:

            @What The Geek: Wal-Mart’s intention is for people to line up outside the store and proceed inside when the doors open. Now there are things that Wal-Mart may say that would lead me to say “okay, Wal-Mart basically didn’t say no to this, but they really encouraged people to act like assholes.” No doubt if something like that comes to light, Wal-Mart may itself face prosecution. But at least such a prosecution won’t be a prosecution for the sake of sticking it to Wal-Mart.

            • What The Geek says:

              @AlexJP: I don’t have anything in particular against walmart here. Every retailer does it. They create a volatile situation by

              1. creating “door buster” sales designed to make sure customers are all lined up at the start of the day

              2. having EXTREMELY limited quantities of “door buster” items.

              3. ensuring that customers know about 1, and 2.

              All of that leads to the lines that start forming the night before. As that line grows and turns into a mob, the people in the back begin to realize they have to push, shove, and run if they want to cash in on one of the extremely limited “door buster” items. When the doors open, the people in the back begin forcing their way forward, and the people in the front start moving faster to stay ahead of them.

              I’m not saying any of what I’m saying to “stick it to Walmart”. This is a problem with the retail industry as a whole, and some changes need to take place. Every year people get hurt in BF mobs. I personally have had the wind knocked out of me when I worked for a dept store on BF. “Door buster” sales lead to bad situations – it’s as simple as that.

              • BluePlastic says:

                @What The Geek: I agree. You’ve summed up the problem very well in my opinion.

                The people who do this disgust me. However, stores should know by now that this stuff will happen. They could at least allow the doors to open remotely so an employee won’t have to be standing in the way of the foaming mob. Maybe they could do some kind of safety training beforehand. It sounds like the employees were trying to hold back the mob, and they should have been informed not to try to do that.

        • Trai_Dep says:

          @AlexJP: Yay! First person pulling the race card from the deck. Congrads!
          Why not go for the trifecta and blame immigrants and unions, too? Save me the trouble of having to congratulate them as well…

          • AlexJP says:

            @Trai_Dep: I am shocked that a “star commenter” would blatantly troll like this.

            If you genuinely have a doubt as to the meaning of my reference to “Little Mogadishu,” let me clarify: I am using that phrase to signify an area where lawlessness prevails. Anyone who was aware of Mogadishu’s recent history probably understands that. Your apology is accepted.

            If you still believe I am playing the race card, then so be it. I’m not too worried; it is far more telling that your rebuttals of all that I wrote about this topic are limited to a vague acusation of racism.

            • Trai_Dep says:

              @AlexJP: Reflect on what you wrote again, in the context that you did, and honestly ask yourself: is it possible that my comment could be interpreted to rely on negative racial stereotypes?
              Ask yourself, “Hmm, I wonder if reference to UK football mobs* might be a less inflammatory reference? Where did that come from?! Whoa – lesson learned!”
              Get back to me on that, huh?

              * Or 1,000 other references

              • AlexJP says:

                @Trai_Dep: It is sure possible that everything I wrote here may offend someone. Just like it is possible that I would be offended by someone saying I am a racist.

                I know I am not a racist. I also know that your original comment offended me. Lets agree to disagree and drop it.

    • bobcatred says:

      @What The Geek: Nope, doesn’t fly. They hyped the hell out of the election, but I don’t recall hearing about anyone getting trampled to death trying to keep people out of a polling station before it officially opened.
      Mass stupidity is still the responsibility of the individuals who acted stupid.

      • What The Geek says:

        @bobcatred: the hole in your argument is that this happens every year, and in every town in America. If this were a one time random incident, I’d agree with you completely, and the fact is, things being what they are, I do partially agree with you. Like I’ve said in EVERY post I’ve made so far, the customers do deserve a large slice of the blame pie for acting the way they did. My point is that things like this happen every BF, and it’s because retailers try very hard to ensure there are mobs of customers waiting to rush into the store when they open, and SPEND SPEND SPEND.

        One other thing – there are no official numbers on this that I know of, but I’d be willing to bet that more people lined up at 5AM to shop today than voted.

        • bobcatred says:

          @What The Geek: That’s sort of my point. I’d venture to say that the election got at least as much air time as the Black Friday commercials this year, and yet people don’t run around acting like wild animals for elections (an event where fanaticism might be somewhat justifiable) but they do for idiotic sales. The stores may be hyping it up, but it’s still the person’s choice to participate in the madness, so the results of their actions are still entirely their own responsibility.
          obviously we have a difference of opinions on this, so I’ll just leave it at that

          • What The Geek says:

            @bobcatred:@bobcatred: That’s the thing – I don’t disagree w/ you about the customers being held accountable – I just think the stores play a part in creating this mob mentality.

            When it comes to voting, there’s always going to be enough ballots for everyone, and the polls are open all day. Hype it all you want, but everyone who wants to is going to get to vote.

            On the other hand, a black friday door buster sale runs for two hrs or less, and the stores stock severely limited quantities of each item. Not everyone is going to get what they want in this scenario. Retailers take steps like these to ENSURE that there will be a line that wraps around the parking lot on BF. Like I said in another post, the people at the back of the line get anxious, and when the doors open, they push forward as hard as they can. The people at the front start moving faster to stay ahead of them. It turns into a mob of crazed shoppers real quick.

            Does any of that excuse the customers for acting like savages? No, of course not. Trampling someone to death is an inhuman thing to do, regardless of the circumstances around it. All I’m saying is if retailers didn’t strive to create mobs on black friday, things like this would never happen. This mob would never have formed if Walmart wasn’t pushing super low prices on items that they had super low quantities of during a short window of time.

            • trujunglist says:

              @Outrun1986:

              While I agree with you, mainly because I myself was once in a crazed stampede of thousands of people, there are definitely people responsible for this happening. When I was involved in the stampede, it was absolutely obvious that some group of people in the back that had arrived far later than I had were completely out of line and started pushing. It started as a giant push and we all held our ground for that wave. There was yelling in the back from the hooligans that started it (“let us in! rarr” and things like that). Suddenly, there was another HUGE push, and at that point, there was no stopping it. In a tightly packed crowd, there is no way to go but forward once the surge starts. I had to literally carry the girl in front of me with one arm (whom I didn’t know) to avoid pushing her down, while holding my friend up in the other arm (I’m a huge guy). I’ll never forget the look on her face when the surge began; absolute terror.
              Thankfully, no one was hurt, but I’d give anything to get a shot at the people that started it, because the aftermath wasn’t pretty either (police beat downs of innocent people). There were people responsible for the push, whether in the front or in the back at this Wal-Mart, and those people need to be held accountable. There were no doubt some people in the tidal wave that were scared shitless and wanted no part of it, while many others probably didn’t care and wanted a cheap TV.

      • AlexJP says:

        @bobcatred: Funny you bring that up. I wonder how many of those involved in this debacle actually voted earlier this month.

        • bobcatred says:

          @AlexJP: @BeastMasterJ: I’ll give you that the argument may be poor, but I stand by the idea that individuals are personally responsible for their choices, regardless of the size of the group. If it should have been obvious to the store that the situation was potentially dangerous, then it should have been equally as obvious to anyone who has ever turned on a TV or opened a newspaper after Black Friday. They still chose to go, knowing the potential for chaos. And while I’ll concede that those in the front may have been surged forward by the masses, it still takes a LOT of individuals choosing to push and attempt to physically force other people forward to create that sort of rush. Had the majority chosen to stop and wait, those in the back couldn’t have pushed everyone forward.
          And ignoring the fact that the majority may not have known someone was on the floor, I have no doubt that the majority was aware that the doors were being broken (walmart doors aren’t exactly tiny so I’m sure a reasonable portion of the crowd could see at least part of the doors, and I imagine it was no small sound when they broke down, not to mention all the signs that they were about to give way) and that should have been enough to make them pause. Even ignoring that, common sense (or any experience at standing concerts) should make it obvious that pushing the people in front of you into a solid mass is either going to break the mass or break the people.

          Yes, Walmart could have prepared better, I don’t disagree. But their lack of preparation doesn’t mean that they’re responsible for the bad choices that the people in the crowd made. Last I checked, they haven’t installed mind-control chips into the brains of their shoppers. In the end, I still hold the members of the mob responsible.

      • BeastMasterJ says:

        @bobcatred said: “They hyped the hell out of the election, but I don’t recall hearing about anyone getting trampled to death trying to keep people out of a polling station before it officially opened.”

        Poor argument. If there were a limited number of ballots you’d have people line up outside and knocking each other over to get at them. Likewise, if there was an infinite number of Flat Screen TVs at $99 each, I doubt there would be as much chaos.

        Yes, the store management needs to be better prepared for these things. Increased security, company issued tasers, something. It’s not like that they couldn’t see this as a potential problem.

        And yes, the crowd is also responsible. but the problem is that a mob mentality tends to submerge the logic and caring of the individual into the combined greed and heartlessness of everyone within 15 feet. No single person pushed him on to the floor and stepped on him, but about 40+ different people bumped into him, causing him to lose balance, and everyone was probably too busy looking for the $99 TV sets to notice him going down.

        It’s almost impossible to prosecute a mob.

    • johnnya2 says:

      @What The Geek: The problem is stores bring 3 of an item at the cheap prioce hoping to get people in to buy other things. The stores blatant disregard for something that is very forseeable is criminal

    • My Iron Lung is Rusted says:

      @What The Geek: @Outrun1986: Here’s the thing, though. I’ll preface this by saying I’m a Black Friday guy. It’s kind of fun to me for whatever reason. At my local Target, they use shopping carts and employees and barricades and only opening certain doors and all sorts of other methods to keep people in one line, prevent people from bum-rushing in at the last second, and in general turn the mob into an organized group. They also did this at the Target in a city where I used to live, which looks to me like a corporate (or at least regional) policy. You can have the sales and the crowds, IF you take the time to manage it. Walmart never does (again, in my area), and they always have either a heavy police presence or crazed hillbillies pawing at each other for the cheapest shiny pretty thing.

      There is a lot of responsibility on the crowd for this, but at some point the store manager could have gone out there with some cops and said enough. You can’t tell me there were no warning signs that the crowd was out of control before the door broke.

    • ivanthemute says:

      @What The Geek: @What The Geek: I don’t buy it. Three years ago, I participated at a BestBuy black Friday door buster. The management had everything planned. A ticket system for folks so they could leave and still get their place in line at 6am the next morning. They had porta-johns, a concession stand, and three sheriff’s deputies with shotguns for security. Nobody got overly frisky although the crowd was probably 400+. When asked that morning on the news if he thought the security was “a little overboard” he replied “We have some great deals and a very enthusiastic crowd, and we don’t want anyone getting hurt.” Probably the most orderly door buster crowd I’ve ever seen.

    • Anonymous says:

      @What The Geek:

      No.
      Quite simply: the biggest issue of all is that they trampled a guy to death.

      Forget the merchandising, forget Black Friday, forget all that junk.

      The big deal is that these people stampeded a guy, and killed him, and didn’t care.

      That’s the point.
      That’s the Big Miserable Horrific Point.

    • beboptheflop says:

      @What The Geek:

      I’m an individual with a brain of my own to make my own choices; I chose not to shop on Black Friday because I knew the crowds would be horrendous and dangerous.

      Walmart did not force those idiots to start lining up at 9pm on Thanksgiving. The individuals CHOSE to do that.

      You can’t blame marketing and PR for the tragedy. The only people who are to blame are the thoughtless lemmings who CHOSE to leave their homes to participate in a ritual that has gotten out of hand by the consumer.

      I can’t stand WalMart just like the next person, and yes they should have known there is a need to beef up security on that day, but to say they are responsible makes the guilty parties seem like “victims” for having fallen for Black Friday advertising gimmicks; which simply isn’t the case.

      • What The Geek says:

        @beboptheflop: I’ve said it about fifteen times in this thread now, but I’ll say it one more time just for you, so read carefully, m’kay? The people who did the stampeding should absolutely be held responsible for their actions. There’s no excuse for trampling a man to death.

        All I’m saying is that retailers – and I’m not just targeting Walmart here – create sales designed to make mobs form. The goal of the marketing is to have people line up the night before. They are actively preying on people’s greedy / competitive nature to drive sales. That’s an irresponsible way to conduct business IMO. People get hurt every year, and at every retailer. This isn’t an isolated incident, and it’s not a problem that’s exclusive to Walmart. People are going to react to door buster sales this way, it’s that simple. Read the rest of my posts – if you still disagree with me, that’s your choice, but it seems a little foolish to completely absolve retailers of any responsibility when things like this happen.

        • beboptheflop says:

          @What The Geek:

          I’ve read all of your posts and I’m still going to respectively disagree. I can’t help but feel the way I do because my husband is a retail general manager (thankfully not for WalMart) and it has become essential for brick and mortar stores to get customers into their buildings by having these “door busters” or “early bird” specials.

          That being said, they certainly don’t want a mob mentality at their businesses, because of the obvious that doesn’t need to be stated. And they aren’t going to turn away customers who have been waiting in line to get into their store.

          Hopefully WalMart will take these lessons and beef up their security in the future, but I still hold firm that there is no one to blame but the mob of crazed people who killed this man and not retailers.

          • What The Geek says:

            @beboptheflop: I used to be in management too – and believe me, I understand the need to drive business to the store, however, Black Friday represents the most irresponsible way to do it. First off, don’t let people line up at 9PM the night before. They wind up cold, tired, hungry, and pissed off by 5AM – I’ve seen it with my own eyes. Second, spread the timed sales out through the course of the day. Have a couple door busters, have a couple at lunch time, and have a couple in the evening. There’s no good reason to encourage this sort of behavior the way that retail marketing does. I’m not trying to blame retailers for driving traffic to their stores, I’m blaming them for the way they go about it. The methods in place encourage this sort of mob behavior. People see great sales that are only available for two hours at the beginning of the day, and they see the signs on the front of the building proclaiming limited quantities, and this is how they will inevitably react. Yea, extra security would help, but it’s not a total fix. Revised marketing would solve the problem completely, and eliminate BF injuries.

            • ShizaMinelli says:

              @What The Geek: I understand what you mean, but I have to disagree on a point. They shouldn’t have to stop people from lining up early. If there are people out there stupid enough to leave family celebration (9 PM is still family time at my Thanksgivings anyways ;) and stand and stare at a door for 8 hours, by all means allow them to. However, adequate security measures shoudl be in place. Even if they “didn’t allow it”, stupid people would just line up just off the property line until a more suitable “line time” was decided.

              • insideedge says:

                @ShizaMinelli: I really think people have missed the point of this thing. The store was broken into by a mob of people (taking the doors off) one person was killed and Wal-Marts response was to allow people to purchase the stuff they killed someone to get to?? Why was the store not cleared out and closed. Is Wal-Mart that hard up for the cash?? Also if someone died does that not make the store a crime scene? Should it not have been closed for an investigation.

      • Trai_Dep says:

        @beboptheflop: Yup. And I guess those people who attended a Jersey club a few years back whose floor collapsed are at fault for falling to their death, since, y’know, they should have had the common sense to review architectural plans, permit requirements and minimum occupancy rules before deciding to attend.
        …Not the fault of the promoters or venue owners, at all. Damn those club-goers! To Hell!!

        What a pristine, uncluttered, moralist world you must live in. Let us know when you tire of it and want to join us in the real world, won’t you?

    • Parting says:

      @What The Geek: Pfft, a murderer is a murderer. Sugarcoat it all you want. If it was your family member, what would you say?

    • Edjamacator says:

      @What The Geek:

      Sure. Blame the business for the willful choices of people, and take the responsibility and accountability for their actions away from the people themselves.

      I’m sure you’ll love Obama’s presidency. I hear he isn’t big on personal responsibility, either.

      • SadSam says:

        @Edjamacator:

        Hopefully the wrongful death law suit against Wal-Mart will be large enought to wipe out any profits made at that store on Black Friday.

        Yes the individuals in that mob should be charged with crimes but I’m afraid that it will be impossibled to identify who is responsible for the death.

      • What The Geek says:

        @Edjamacator: alright, I’ve been REAL polite about douchebags like you not reading my comments here, and implying that I think the crowd shouldn’t be held responsible for their actions, but seriously? STFU. Clearly you haven’t read ANY of what I said all the way through. I feel the crowd should ABSOLUTELY be held accountable for their actions. I also feel that retailers in general, not just walmart, encourage this sort of behavior. Read all of my comments all the way through, and if you still disagree with me that’s totally your choice, but don’t post things when you don’t know what’s going on – you just look stupid.

    • ShizaMinelli says:

      @What The Geek: @What The Geek: I didn’t realize people were being forced to stand in crappy weather for the deals…

  9. Outrun1986 says:

    There is no excuse for the actions of customers getting angry for having to leave the store however when you are in a large blob of people you usually cannot move any way but forward.

    Even if you wanted to help it would not be a very good idea until the stampede has ended because stopping in the middle of a mob would only cause yourself injury and injury to the people behind you (and in general it would make the effects of the mob much worse). This is what happens when a crowd gets out of control.

    When you have a mob it is very difficult for one person or a couple people to step up and try to stop the mob, control the mob or try to do something about what is happening, you pretty much have to wait till the stampede ends. For this reason I cannot put fault on the people in the mob for not trying to help, although they put themselves in that situation when they started lining up at the door and started acting like a mob.

    This just proves that humankind will be at its worst when a sale is advertised and that BF is not worth it!

    • What The Geek says:

      @bobcatred: That’s the thing – I don’t disagree w/ you about the customers being held accountable – I just think the stores play a part in creating this mob mentality.

      When it comes to voting, there’s always going to be enough ballots for everyone, and the polls are open all day. Hype it all you want, but everyone who wants to is going to get to vote.

      On the other hand, a black friday door buster sale runs for two hrs or less, and the stores stock severely limited quantities of each item. Not everyone is going to get what they want in this scenario. Retailers take steps like these to ENSURE that there will be a line that wraps around the parking lot on BF. Like I said in another post, the people at the back of the line get anxious, and when the doors open, they push forward as hard as they can. The people at the front start moving faster to stay ahead of them. It turns into a mob of crazed shoppers real quick.

      Does any of that excuse the customers for acting like savages? No, of course not. Trampling someone to death is an inhuman thing to do, regardless of the circumstances around it. All I’m saying is if retailers didn’t strive to create mobs on black friday, things like this would never happen. This mob would never have formed if Walmart wasn’t pushing super low prices on items that they had super low quantities of during a short window of time.

  10. pixiegirl1 says:

    When I heard this it made me want to cry it made me think of the old guys who work the door at my store. It is disgusting that people could keep on trampling and pushing people around instead of stopping to try to help someone in need. I don’t know if they were expecting such large crowds (2000 people is a lot of people coming in at once)when opening however they should have planned to have extra security when opening esp when they are letting people line up at 9pm the night before.

  11. ShivaniAgdistis says:

    Horrifying!
    I hope they’re not the same people who’ll be pontificating in a few weeks about the “real meaning of Christmas.”

  12. A.W.E.S.O.M.-O says:

    Is there anybody in this entire country who cares about acting sensibly in business or in life?

    • Winstonian says:

      @A.W.E.S.O.M.-O: Yeah, but most of them have been put out of business by or lost their jobs to the WalMart mentality. “Profit above all!” and “I got the cheapest price possible!” are two sides of the same coin. Both retailers and consumers have lost sight of the actual *value* of things, as opposed to the *price*.

  13. Blue387 says:

    This is horrible.

  14. varro says:

    Three people dead because of shopping-related insanity.

    And Wal-Mart had to have known about the hazards of opening the doors with a crowd of people ready to charge in –

    “> this was what happened last year.

    You can YouTube lots of videos of crazed (and crazy) shoppers beating each other and rioting to get their hands on the latest piece of Chinese-made crap.

    No thank you – I’d rather save my money for booze, and if I need to buy something, buy it online.

    • Anonymous says:

      @varro: Notice that they try to hold the doors closed, but couldn’t. 2000 people pushing could have pushed in the big glass windows too. I agree that the sales to some extent “instigate” the mobs but Black Friday didn’t start with Walmart, or even store advertising. It started because most people got the Friday after Thanksgiving off work and could get into stores normally closed or busy on the weekends. Obviously, it is now the worst day all year to go shopping but whether the stores advertise or not, people choose to go out and fight over “the best deal.” I try not to even leave home because of the insane traffic and bad, rushed drivers. No one I know needs to go shop that day, and there are only two reasons I can see for camping out before a store opens (1) the “excitement” of the competition, (2) the ridiculously misguided American belief that some THING on sale will make or break your entire holiday. Either way, it’s sick when it becomes so profuse and hostile that employees can’t hold the doors shut, a man is trampled to death, and police cannot even provide CPR properly!

  15. varro says:

    No links – bah….this is what happened last year at Wal-Mart…

    • moore850 says:

      @varro: So waid, wal-mart had a way of knowing this would happen? I wonder how many other hundreds of wal-marts had non-fatal tramplings yesterday.

    • ShizaMinelli says:

      @varro: I saw parts of this video as part of a news story, and I can’t help but LOL at the dumb bitch who falls then lays on the ground until she gets her wig back on, THEN complains of injuries she sustained (in the newsstory vid…) I’m sorry if she got hurt, but when you fall and CHOOSE to lay on the ground (and if you watch she had a chance to get up), no one to blame but yourself, and you will be laughed at forever after that, at least by me :)

  16. Chrome says:

    The managers at Wal-Mart should be charged with inciting a riot. If they can do it to Limp Bizkit at Woodstock, surely it could be applied here.

    Later,
    Chrome…

    • ninjatoddler says:

      @Chrome: Best comment so far.

    • humphrmi says:

      @Chrome: Seriously, have you been waiting 39 years to make that comment? :)

    • The_IT_Crone says:

      @Chrome: Agreed times a thousand.
      Especially since they KNEW that these things happen to them at these times. They should have had security to keep people away from the doors, and had a safe place for the employees to dive out of the way when they opened the doors.

    • AlexJP says:

      @Chrome: If it turns out the managers egged on the crowd by saying “okay, mob, CHARGE!!!,” then I can agree. But it seems like the employees of this particular Wal-Mart were trying to hold them back.

      What we have is a case of a group of people willing to destroy private property, injure and kill over Wal-Mart merchandise. These people value $7 off a DVD player or whatever over human life. No matter how much you want to blame Wal-Mart, in the end you have to recognize that the people involved in this incident have values systems not unlike other murderers. The people in the mob should be tried on manslaughter chargers.

      Could Wal-Mart have handled it better? Probably. Shall we blame Wal-Mart because the local yokels acted like total animals? Absolutely not!

      • Chrome says:

        @AlexJP:

        I understand your point and it is valid. Like others have said, Wal-Mart knew, based on previous events, that the situation could potentially get out of hand and result in injury or death to all of those involved. What they did was create a public health risk.

        I also agree with previous posters suggestions to use receipt information in connection with security camera footage to pass charges onto the shoppers. What do they usually charge rioters with?

        Later,
        Chrome…

        • AlexJP says:

          @Chrome: Yes, Wal-Mart could have handled this better. But it would be perverse to say that Wal-Mart needs to take responsibility for throngs of violent criminals.

          As a society, we pledge to each other basic law and order. This necessarily means that we pledge to Wal-Mart and the employee that we would prosecute these morons, as punishment and in hopes that it may deter others from acting like jerks in the future. It isn’t a popularity contest; one can’t just assign the blame differently just because one party involve is unpopular (Wal-Mart).

          It is unfortunate that Wal-Mart has been hit by mobs of idiots before. But it doesn’t appear that anything Wal-Mart has done would lead a reasonable person to mob violence. We shouldn’t force Wal-Mart, or anyone else for that matter, to bear responsibility for the actions of unreasonable criminals. Our society has graduated from blaming the victim, thankfully.

  17. legwork says:

    That is very screwed up. The guy wasn’t even old. I initially pictured an elderly greeter falling to a heart attack.

    Perhaps Wally should invest in some rodeo bull gates? It’d protect the employees and give shoppers something to consider.

  18. XianZhuXuande says:

    This is so wrong… people are the cause here, but I blame Walmart. It is possible for a store to organize this event without causing a customer stamped. And if this is what they are up against year after year, they needed to be hiring security.

    They’ll get hit with a well deserved lawsuit for this…

    • Snakeophelia says:

      @XianZhuXuande: “Well-deserved lawsuit?” I say negligent homicide. A crowd of 2000 people outside, with no security, and they didn’t have a safe place for employees to stand?

      Seriously, if all that comes out of this is a wrongful death civil suit, I’ll be disappointed. Someone needs to go to jail for this.

      • peggyhill says:

        @Snakeophelia:
        Two things will happen from this:

        1. WalMart will send the Fayetteville Five (their brite squad) to threaten the poor soul’s next of kin back to wherever country they are from or argue in court that the guy deserved to die because he’s an illegal or something worse. WalMart’s high paid attorneys are on the case to verify that they will lose nothing to the family of the bereaved.

        2. There will be a killer Law & Order episode about this come early next season.

    • joellevand says:

      @XianZhuXuande: When the people take the DOORS OFF THE HINGES, essentially breaking into the store ILLEGALLY, it’s Walmart’s fault HOW?

  19. Anonymous says:

    My God… What a horrible and senseless death. This just proves that if stores run sales and allow people to form a mob, the responsibility to control that mob is on them. If they had security limiting the amount of people that are allowed to enter at one time and rope lines to control the overall mob, this wouldnt have happened. Night clubs do this, and if they didn’t they would be held liable. Why not WalMart or anyother retailer?

  20. SDreamer says:

    [rant]
    I think just goes to show that a majority of the population is very plain stupid. I mean, yeah lots of hype over this event, but seriously, anyone who is smart enough knows that it isn’t worth it when a person is injured. Seriously, anyone with enough sense would not have fallen for this kind of action. This is just stupid on everyone of those shoppers there. I hope everyone of those shoppers that walked on/over/around that employee feels guilt for what they did, at the very least they should all apologize to that guy’s family, for he won’t be able to spend this holiday or any other holiday with them because those people weren’t smart enough to just stop and help because of “savings” on items. I hope when they look at what they were able to purchase that day, they know they killed a guy. When they hand that gift they got that day to their “loved one” that they know there is most likely another family out there without a loved one to give a gift to. In fact, everyone who bought anything, and got their savings from that Wal-Mart should donate their savings to that family for the funeral. It really ticks me off seeing people like this. These people are the first to run away from a conflict, and are usually the first to start the conflict. No responsibility at all…
    [/rant]
    With this, and console launches, and shootings over these things, I think I’ll never participate again in anything like this. I’d rather spend a few more dollars (or shop online for the savings) and know that I have a higher change of surviving the day alive, than fearing of getting into some argument and getting shot or being trampled by “fellow” shoppers. I know there is a huge, large, ginormous number of shoppers who are professional about this, fall in line, and accept what they can get, accept their position. I’ve seen it, I’ve been in it, and it’s a great experience talking to people about what you want to get. It’s the hype that brings fellow shoppers together for a nice experience, it’s the start of holiday shopping. This…. this… I just do not understand how this can happen. Really just pushes it over the edge… >.>

    • NitrousO says:

      @SDreamer: I wholeheartedly agree.

    • ShizaMinelli says:

      @SDreamer: I really don’t understand the “console launch” thing, especially. I’m sure it’s b/c I just didn’t play video games growing up, they just held no interest to me to sit there and push buttons for hours on end, except occasional games of “Sonic the HEdgehog” and “Mortal Kombat” (and forget those stupid combo code things, I just pushed random buttons and occasionally my fighter would do something right lol), so to me it’s just supremely ridiculous that people get into FIGHTS over a fucking PS3 or Wii or whatever. To me, fighting for the chance to pay too much money for something that you push buttons on just makes no sense.

      I admit now I do enjoy some video games on occasion, and bought a secondhand PS2 a few months ago for $65, but for the most part I only use it when I have parties and stuff.

  21. mewyn dyner says:

    This is why I don’t go out shopping on Black Friday. It’s gotten to be consumerism gone amok.

    While the actions of the mob were horrible, once it starts it cannot end until it dissipates, one should never try to stop in a mob unless they are a football linebacker, you will get yourself trampled. It’s just the physics behind it. You’ve got a hundred people behind you, pushing and shoving, trying to get in. Most people won’t be able to provide a force to go against that. Also, I’m guessing people were so packed together they couldn’t see down, they probably had no idea that a person was what they were going over. Now, I’m not absolving them of all blame. They lined up there. They acted like animals (the mob instinct is an animalistic instinct of ours). It’s just horrible of them. Then to get angry when asked to leave… get over yourself and your saving of your money!

    Who is really to blame is the management of the Wal-Mart. I saw in one of the reports of this a sign that said “BLITZ LINE STARTS HERE.” Advertising a “blitz line” is a negligent thing to do, especially when how we’ve been seeing how people have been behaving lately on this day. Also, they should have kept the people well away from the door as to not break it down. Allowing people to push up against a door that’s not very strong (these doors are made to swing open upon a bunch of people pushing for emergency evacuation purposes) is just a stupid thing to do. Not only that, you have to line people up! Don’t allow them to mob up. That’s just flat out asking for trouble.

    A friend of mine went to Fry’s to get stuff today. He wanted to get a TV, but found a madhouse in their TV department. People were climbing over the shelving units to try and get into the TV nook to save $100 on a TV with no regard for anyone’s safety.

    I think this insanity really needs to stop. We don’t need doorbusters. Spread out the sales. Let’s stop the insanity before anyone else gets hurt.

    • Outrun1986 says:

      @mewyn dyner: Other stores were able to survive just fine, they handed out tickets and some Best Buy’s had the corral gates another poster mentioned in order to keep the sanity. They only let a few people in at a time so it did not create the mob that was created here. Letting a large blob of people build up at the doorway is the worst possible thing to do. When your in a mob the only way to go is forward…

      A “blitz line” shouldn’t really be advertised anywhere a large crowd will gather, because its bound to turn into a mob no matter how well the people are behaving.

      I have never participated in any of these events in my life nor a video game console launch (its just a video game system people, not worth freezing over) and I don’t plan on it anytime soon. A stampede could be easily prevented at a game console launch, don’t release the thing until you have built up enough inventory to satisfy at least a good portion of the demand. If manufacturers continue to release a console when they can only ship 5-6 units to each store on launch day then this will continue to happen.

      • Squot says:

        @Outrun1986: For all of the many, MANY issues with Best Buy, this is the one that I have to say they excel at. They meter how many people can go into the store, they give away tickets for the most popular things and ENCOURAGE people to leave and come back later – like, 11AM – because their item is being held for them. They stay neat and efficent, have store maps, and every employee on the floor.

        I’ve worked at Walmart before, and it’s a MESS. Palates of the biggest sales, just scattered around the store – not even on shelves, so people can come and mob from all sides, no crowd control, no tickets, no nothing.

        It was frightening. :(

        • humphrmi says:

          @Squot: Having done the Black Friday thing myself, I agree with you 100%. Wal Mart encourages a mob mentality because it makes them feel better about their sales figures when people are fighting and killing others to get into their store to buy stuff. That same mob mentality doesn’t exist in other stores that better manage their Black Friday events. Which is why I avoid Wal Mart on Black Friday.

      • mewyn dyner says:

        @Outrun1986:

        Yeah, many do this right, and don’t cause riots. This is something that’s going to be with us, it’s just it needs to be done with less hype and more responsibility on all sides.

        I also agree with you about the console thing, these companies need to stop worrying about the hypevertising and start being more responsible.

        I guess it’s disheartening to see events like this get worse and worse every year, right at the beginning of the holidays. It’s adding to my already overly cynical attitude. ;)

    • katylostherart says:

      @mewyn dyner: the sales will never be spread out. this is the one week day most people are able to have off free from their employer in the last month leading up to christmas. everyone goes shopping because on monday they have to head back to work and work every business day til christmas usually unless they take personal vacation time or lose pay.

    • GoVegan says:

      @mewyn dyner: I really don’t think that the management of Wal Mart is to blame at all. My thinking is that the blame lies on a large crowd that is lacking common sense. People need to be responsible for their actions and that includes trampling over someone over a stupid sale. I don’t care if they were giving away cars for free. People have no right to behave like this.

      • mewyn dyner says:

        @GoVegan:

        I think they are highly to blame. [assets.nydailynews.com] This is the “blitz line” I mention.

        I’m not saying the members of the crowd are as innocent as the morning dew, but crowds are not something you can fight against. Even if you see you’re being shoved into someone, knocking them down, you cannot stop. The people behind you, who are shoving you, don’t know something’s wrong. They continue pushing you. You cannot move. It’s a terrible situation. Those people shouldn’t have been acting unruly, and I’m sure none had the intent of doing this, but when bunched up in a mob with no direction one shove, even an accidental one, can multiply into a stampede. If the management of this store (keep in mind, I’m not and never said Wal-mart as a whole, but just this store) had kept things orderly this would *NOT* have happened.

    • mewyn dyner says:

      @mewyn dyner:

      Also, I have to say, that this thread is a perfect example on how people don’t understand mobs.

      I see so many people here clamoring for “we should prosecute everyone in this mob for murder!” When in a mob, your actions have little to no impact! You’re being pushed around from all angles. The mob becomes an entity of it’s own, you are merely a cell within it. If you stop, you may very well die from the same situation this man did.

      One has no choice in actions in a mob. Sure you can choose whether or not to be there, but as this thread has now shown, people don’t understand that if a mob forms, that they have no choice in action.

      • Jon Mason says:

        @mewyn dyner: Absolutely right.

        For those who think that individuals are to blame for something like this, I suggest you read about the Hillsborough football disaster:
        [en.wikipedia.org]

        Once a mob forms, their actions are the system’s fault, not the individuals. Yes the individuals all contributed about 0.0001 percent of the force, but had no idea what was happening at the front of the mob…

      • MrsLopsided says:

        @mewyn dyner: Not being responsible because you were part of a mob is like not being responsible because you were drunk. Don’t get drunk.

        A couple of people interviewed said that they left their prime spot in “line” before the doors opened because they sensed it was getting too rowdy and dangerous. Sober move.

        • batsy says:

          @MrsLopsided: Crowds at concerts are usually completely docile until the music starts – then all hell breaks loose.

          You can’t always tell when you should get out of a situation until it’s too late.

  22. in2insight says:

    Meg-
    Do you know if a legitimate donation fund has been set him for the victims family / survivors?

  23. reviled says:

    The disgusting desire to over-consume everything, regardless of need or actual ability (e.g credit), will eventually be the downfall of this great nation.

  24. dialing_wand says:

    I think it’s time to look consumerism straight in the eye and say enough. Products don’t kill people, people kill people.

  25. johnfrombrooklyn says:

    I’ve been in a crowd once where thousands of people pushed forward and it was impossible to stop, go forward, change directions, or do anything other than just go with the crowd and pray you’re not trampled. The people in front can’t stop. The people in back don’t know someone is down up front. It’s a truly terrifying situation. (And the fact that I was in this crowd at a Chicago concert only makes the memory scarier.)

    • humphrmi says:

      @johnfrombrooklyn: Yeah, I remember my first experience with crowd push at a concert, it was ZZ Top at the Tacoma Dome, and it was pretty terrifying. I was way up front and had no idea what it was going to happen, and at one point my feet were completely off the ground for several minutes and I moved several dozen feet from my original position.

  26. cametall says:

    WTF is wrong with people? I was at BestBuy all night last night and the line was orderly and humane. And this is considered BestBuy’s number 2 store in sales. There were maybe 2 cops there the entire night.

    Is it the crowd that shops at Walmart? I myself prefer Target.

  27. SigmundTheSeaMonster says:

    Marketing and sales” the fall of civilization”…

  28. SigmundTheSeaMonster says:

    …hurry, while supplies last! Sales ends now!

  29. sleze69 says:

    To quote fark.com:

    The Annual American Running of the Bulls.

    Tragic :(

  30. RomeoCache says:

    The article states that the store employees called the police at 3:30 am to report the growing crowd. The police came and left, obviously without solving the problem. There seemed to be no crowd control. I think that if those doors hadn’t broken, the people at the front of the “line” would have been crushed too. Those shoppers are not killers. This was a freak accident.

    I think the police were most at fault for not controlling the situation after they had been called. Hopefully, everyone can learn from this and prepare better next time.

    • sleze69 says:

      @RomeoCache: If this happened at a rock concert, would the organizers have been arrested? Does the manager bear any similar type of responsibility?

      • OletheaEurystheus says:

        @sleze69: yes

        In 1991, Combs promoted a concert headlined by Heavy D. The concert was held at the City College of New York gymnasium following an AIDS charity basketball game. The event was massively overcrowded; it was oversold to almost twice the capacity of the gymnasium. In addition, thousands without tickets were outside. In order to keep them from sneaking in, Combs’ people shut the only door to a stairwell and put a table behind it, despite the crowd jammed inside pounding on the door and pleading for help. At some point people in the crowd outside broke several glass doors in an attempt to get in; this caused a stampede inside the gymnasium in which nine people died.[9] In a 1999 ruling, a Court of Claims judge found Puff Daddy and Heavy D. responsible for 50 percent of the incident. City College bore the rest of the responsibility in part for abandoning security responsibility to Puff Daddy, even though they knew the event was oversold.

  31. tozmervo says:

    All 2000 people should be arrested and thrown in jail. That is just disgusting.

  32. Hoss says:

    Romeocache: Freak accident? I disagree. That term implies that that this incident could not have been anticipated. We see this year after year where people are squeezed against the doors for these sales. Sooner or later something like this was bound to happen. This one will be settled out of court because it is so obvious that without crowd control, lives are at risk. A couple hundred dollars for police fees would have saved this life. Instead Walmart will pay a few million.

  33. gc3160thtuk says you got your humor in my sarcasm and you say you got your sarcasm in my humor says:

    I work at Walmart, have for 3 Christmas’ now and no one in my area of Upstate, SC acted like that no one damn time. Perhaps the folks in that area of NY should learn how to act. Pathetic for sure. My heart is wounded for a fellow associate dying in such a tragic and horrible way. G_d Bless him and his family.

  34. newage44 says:

    I guess he was just a devout employee who failed to realize that he was to use judgment in working at Walmart and that does not include laying down his life. Even 7/11 employees are told to give them the money and not fight back.

    The employees judgment, and not Walmart’s, is what cost the employee his life along with the animals that trampled him to death.

    • Hoss says:

      This remark is quite insensitive.

    • ShariC says:

      @newage44: You’re assuming he had control over the events as they transpired or was in a reasonable position to predict them. We don’t know if he was trying to get out of the way and got knocked down, or if he was shoved the wrong way, or what. I don’t think you can speculate about his judgment one way or another, and it’s in especially poor taste to blame the victim in this case.

      Sometimes things happen because even a reasonable and attentive person couldn’t predict they would unfold as they did. Many people like to labor under the illusion that they have more control than they do or that they could have done better, but it’s just their need to believe they can bring order to the chaos of life.

    • Squot says:

      @newage44: ………………….

      Have you ever worked for Walmart? You’re not allowed to use your ‘judgement’. It is very, /very/ likely he was told to hold the doors.

      If you don’t do what you are directly told to do, it’s grounds to be fired.

      I can’t believe that you’re blaming the victim about him DYING.

    • Anonymous says:

      You are blaming the employee?!
      When I heard this story, I thought that I couldn’t be any more disgusted, but you’ve proven me wrong. Good job.

    • Tmoney02 says:

      @newage44: Troll Harder, your just coming off as lame.

  35. ShariC says:

    This is so incredibly appalling. I was thinking that the bad economy might be initiating a change in people during this season where they’d start to value family, community, and charity over rampant crap consumption. But this shows that the altar of consumerism has many worshippers who are indifferent to the sacrifices made at it.

    This should be a rallying cry for people to boycott the idea of Black Friday, but I’m guessing it’ll simply be forgotten by next year. I feel so terrible for that man’s family.

  36. LordofthePing says:

    It’s these savages who deserve most of the blame, but Walmart should’ve done more to ensure the safety of their employees and customers. I remember waiting overnight at a Best Buy to pick up a PS3 on the opening day and the manager put a lot of effort and thought into ensuring our safety.

  37. krispykrink says:

    When sheeple act like sheeple, they need to be treated as such. Razor wire, electric fencing, and tear gas would have prevented this.

    If they continue to act like sheeple, it’s time to put them down with a round.

  38. Anonymous says:

    All I can say is it is truely sad. Thank goodness our walmart is 24hr so we didn’t have to worry about stampede just the grabbing when the plastic was cut off the skids. Although a man got hot coffee in his face after he tricked a woman into helping him than he ran off with her trampoline and his.

  39. redhelix says:

    GG new yorkers

  40. Cafezinha says:

    According to many of the accounts I’ve seen in the news, there was also a pregnant women trampled who lived, but who lost her baby from the injuries she received.

    Every time I start to feel like a Scrooge and an asshole because I loathe the commerical Christmas, I see something like this and it makes me want to scream. That poor guy, and his family, as well.

  41. parad0x360 says:

    I work at Target and we didnt have any running this morning. We had security posted outside letting everyone know when the store would open. We had management tell people not to run and rush and we also hired Police to stand in the store all day.

    There were no injuries, no crazy running none of that crap. We also did 500k in sales by noon so it was incredibly busy.

  42. GoVegan says:

    People dying at Wal Mart over a sale? I was shocked when I read this. This is human nature at its absolute lowest. Something is seriously wrong with society when we start jumping over emergency workers working on a dead person so we can get a good price on some piece of crap we could probably live without. Perhaps, public manners need to be taught in our schools. I am hoping that Wal Mart will at least help care for the family of their trampled employee.

  43. The_IT_Crone says:

    WTF is this, “shop until our last employee drops?”

    I’m so disgusted beyond belief. I’ve worked BF’s before and I sometimes felt like I needed to keep an item of furniture between myself and them.

  44. Anonymous says:

    What has the world and its people come to today? I know that if I had been one of those shoppers trampling over that man, I would feel so sick. How could they trample him, keep walking & continue their shopping? HOW? It’s just a sad situation that a man had to lose his life for other people to get the latest technology gadgets, those Guitar Hero games, and Rock Band crap, Plasma TV’s, etc.
    Wal-mart, well actually every store that promotes and hypes up their “Special, Great-savings Sale” should hire security, if not additional security, hand out tickets, & keep it organized. I mean Best Buy did an awesome job when I went this morning. Not only do they have the line forming outside, they let a certain amt. of ppl at a time (& really you weren’t waiting long, I got there at 5am when they open & stood outside for like 10 min. tops) & they had lines inside if you wanted to purchase a camera, computer,etc. There were sales associates everywhere, smiling & very willing to help. Other stores can learn from this.
    And really? people seriously got mad because they were told to leave the wal-mart because of the incident? Come on! A man was killed, how could you still shop? Sick people. The video especially makes me sick. Disgusting.
    I think people need to realize that saving so & so amount is not worth someone dying. It’s just WRONG!!!!

  45. ValdisPidgeot says:

    Just like a European soccer game! Tramplings-to-death are not all that uncommon. Logically, the folks in back, who are shoving the folks up front, can’t see what’s wrong.

  46. OletheaEurystheus says:

    I think its very simple. Black Friday needs to be banned or companies need to be required by law to have 1 security officer for every 15 customers when holding these sales.

    And Walmart needs to be sued into oblivion after this fiasco. They are the worst offender. They practically BREED the kind of inhuman animal mob mentality in the way they handle black friday sales and have been doing this for years now.

  47. howtragic says:

    I cannot say too much more than has already been said about this. This whole Christmas stuff has gotten completely out of control. Am I the only one who buys a few people a MODEST gift for X-mas? What’s wrong with that? The only people who really need Christmas gifts are children. Everyone else can go buy their own damn crap. Personally, I would feel sort of weird receiving a big, flat screen TV for Christmas.

    And your kids do NOT need more than a few presents. One big present and two or three small presents is PLENTY!!!

    PS – I saved all kinds of money today just by staying home and not buying a damn thing.

  48. chiieddy says:

    I have to say, I didn’t go to ANY openings today but arrived at 7 am and still got Guitar Hero World Tour for Wii at Target. I hit Sears (I know, I was very nervous) online last night for in store pickup and had all my merchandise in minutes without having to wait in line at all. I got some awesome deals, and was done shopping before noon. Then, I napped.

  49. savdavid says:

    Where was the manager? the assistants? Probably back in the office. The security guy gave his life so the management could not be bothered with the people looking for a deal. What’s a life when lots of folks can save money? This Black Friday stuff should be government regulated or stopped since people are getting hurt and killed.

  50. KyleOrton says:

    I for one welcome the oncoming depression. Maybe when those people stampeding for shit are scrounging for food, they’ll have a chance to reprioritize.

    If Walmart doesn’t ACTUALLY take this seriously and change their nationwide approach to Black Friday next year, I’ll do all I can to disparage their brand and reduce their profits. There is no way Walmart’s actions didn’t contribute to its employees deaths.

    Stop buying toys. Save for bread.

  51. downwithmonstercable says:

    This makes me fucking sick. Yes Wal-Mart is partially at fault here for not being prepared with security and such.

    But who fucking TRAMPLED this guy? PEOPLE! Greedy, stampeding, people. People trampled him, people didn’t stop to help, people nearly trampled police and medics as they tried to help this poor guy.

    Stories like this make me lose faith in mankind. This makes me absolutely sick to my stomach that some POS shopper would trample and ignore a dying man on the ground to get discounted barbies or a cheap TV. Unbelievable.

    • u1itn0w2day says:

      @downwithmonstercable: I agree 200% .And these people aren’t buying for gifts they’re buying for themselves .They hunting for a bargain and just like in the wild if you mess with a predator’s hunt and/or prey they will attack .

      Astounding and to top it off on this BLACK Friday there was a shoot out in a Toys R Us in Calif as well-AFTER a fight between 2 women-in a toy store .

  52. PDX909 says:

    bunch of savages

  53. no.no.notorious says:

    yeah i heard about this at work and my reaction is the same…is a $10 blender worth someone’s life? i think not.

  54. pgaedke says:

    Greed

  55. Eyebrows McGee (now with double the baby!) says:

    Jesus.

    I just heard about a stabbing in Southern IL, a customer who really wanted a digital camera on Black Friday sale stabbed a Wal-Mart employee to get at it.

    People suck.

  56. ThreeBowls says:

    I am confused – when I read this earlier today, I went to CNN.com and it was nowhere that I could find on the front page. (Now, late in the shopping day, it is.) I just watched the news, NBC Nightly News and local here in Seattle. I did miss the first couple of minutes of national, so maybe it was the lead story in which case the point I’m about to make is totally moot, but in internet fashion, I’m going to proceed.

    All I saw on the national news was a smiley story about holiday shopping being down, but busy, and a comment from the reporter that Wal-Mart and other publicity-shy stores letting in reporters. I’ve seen nothing on my local news so far about this story. Even if it is out of the area, it’s still part of the major news of the day: shopping.

    I am not normally a Big Business Conspiracist, but this is really weird to me. All these stories about Black Friday and people dying by shopping on Black Friday doesn’t make the cut? Am I being a loon here or is this odd to anyone else? (And again, if I just missed it on the Nightly News on NBC, disregard that part.)

    • bobcatred says:

      @ThreeBowls: I’m not sure it’s a “big business conspiracy” so much as a “crappy news media” thing. Seriously, when CNN spends the better part of a day covering Paris Hilton’s 2.4 minutes in jail, you pretty much know that they’re not trying anymore.

  57. Cap says:

    video of emt trying to save the man’s life:

    semi-graphic content. if you cant stand moronic bystanders laughing and making stupid ass statements, ignore the video.

  58. jwissick says:

    Door busters like this need to be outlawed. Period. There is no excuse for this.

  59. bohemian says:

    There is plenty of blame here.
    This is also not the first year where crowds have stampeded and people were injured. Walmart should have known this to be a possibility. The store also called the police at 3am so they knew it was a bad situation. There should have been security and crowd control. Walmart deserves to lose their shirt on this one.
    The police bear some blame. They saw a potential situation, showed up and left after they were called due to concerns about 2000 people in front of one store.
    The people bear blame too. WTF. Who stands in line all night to brawl for crap from Walmart?? The sign out front shows there was a mentality around the event brewing.

    They need to outlaw the whole doorbuster nonsense as potentially inciting a riot even if Best Buy seems to be able to handle it. Plenty of others can not.

  60. mikey07840 says:

    People are selfish. I work as an EMT. I had a call where a gentleman had a heart attack in the lobby of a high school. We had him on the stretcher and were doing CPR. While doing compressions, people kept climbing over us and interrupting us so that they could get past us to enter the theatre.

    This report, sadly, does not surprise me at all.

  61. the lesser of two weevils says:

    People everywhere seem to turn their brains off on Thanksgiving and dont bother to turn them back on until the following Monday. Every year on Thanksgiving I see people completely ignorant of traffic and pedestrian safety laws, usually rushing to and from the grocery store or relative’s homes. Everyone is so stressed out and impatient that sense gets blacked out.

    Then on black friday this comes to a head when the dumbest and most aggressive of people flock to stores and malls and take on a survivalist mentality where they’re completely ignorant of everyone but themselves. I had to drop my wife off at the mall she works at today and was almost in three car wrecks – all caused by aggressive drivers speeding around trying to get a parking space. They literally ignored stop signs and oncoming traffic.

    This day only appeals to dumb, desperate, and aggressive people. Put them all together in one area and its reason to just stay home.

  62. LintySoul says:

    I’m sorry that the employees felt they had to “hold the doors in place” to protect…the store? Its almost like chasing the gun man that just robbed the 7-11 while you’re on shift. This is just some sad sad news.
    ‘Czech Dream’ is a great movie that delves into the mad shopper mentality, and also plays a great hoax on impulse shoppers. I recommend it as a great holiday film.

  63. RvLeshrac says:

    I think what most of the commenters here are missing (damn this new threaded view, have to click 800 times to read one page of comments) is that Wal-Mart *DID* call the police – they called them 90 minutes before the store opened. The police didn’t show up.

    The animals tore the doors off the hinges.

    Even when the police *DID* arrive, they were banged around by MORE people while trying to perform CPR on the employee.

    The same crowd knocked over a pregnant woman, who was sent to the hospital.

    Is Wal-Mart partially to blame? Certainly. They allowed 2000 people to gather in front of the store. However, what are they supposed to do? Call in SWAT? There’s only so much they can legally do to control the crowd.

    If the people are willing to KILL to get into the store anyway, what makes anyone think they’re going to stop just for a few cops?

  64. eyemandy says:

    This is a very gross display of humanity. What stabs my heart the most is what his poor family must be thinking/feeling right now. Their son was killed by shoppers–people who cared more about saving $200 on a sub-par TV than a human life. There’s no justice to be had.

  65. MooseOfReason says:

    Talk about your door-busters!

    But it’s New York. They don’t notice anything. There could be a mannequin standing near the door for a year, and people would come in and greet it.

  66. banmojo says:

    I find humans far more disgusting than herd animals. Herd animals like steer, bison, sheep – they have no mind to speak of, can’t think out what they’re doing in any meaningful way. Humans, on the other hand, have full capability to stop and think about what they’re doing, even when in a panicked mob situation (albeit in that case their reasoning is greatly compromised, I’ll admit), and as such this is completely inexcusable and reprehensible. Not only are these people in the mob at fault, clearly so is Walmart. I hope some heads roll over this [avoidable] tragedy, and I hope something is done next year to prevent this kind of thing from happening again.

    My prayers go out to this man’s family and friends – what an awful holiday season they’re about to bear, it makes my heart ache for them.

  67. jimmydeweasel says:

    Baby Jesus cried when he heard about this……..

  68. u1itn0w2day says:

    I hope this store’s security camera system is a good one.That way they can track the stampeaders from their entrance to the time they checkout at the register-hopefully with a check,debit or credit card .I hope they get prosecutions out of this and make a very public example out of them .

  69. Anonymous says:

    what has this world come to? It is rediculous that people now days are such big idiots and could care less about others. all they care about is saving 30 F@#!#@# dollars on there xmas shopping. now some poor family has to spend thousands of dollars on a funeral that a bunch of stupid consumers caused.

  70. Aisley says:

    I’m not that much of a softy, but this brought tears to my eyes. When did we become such degrated beasts that the life of another human being became so disposable? Was a 30 dollars vacuum worted of you becoming an assassin? Do you think that there was a need for this man to pay with his blood for your $399 laptop? God I have never, ever felt like prosecutors, but I will pay to be one right now, so I can prosecute them on homicide charges. Each an everyone til the last person deserve to pay for this; those who ran over him, those that prevented the coworkers from helping him and those that were outside screaming like animals when the police closed the store. And let’s not forget the poor eight months pregnant woman that was seriously injured. Thanks God the baby is doing fine, but she is in sad, sad shape. The last time I went to one of these beasts marathon was five years ago. Right there and then I swore not to return. What a coincidence (irony here) back then I saw this comming. Lord, how much I would have like to be in the wrong in this one. This is one of those situations where “an eye for an eye” will be more than appropriate.

  71. Anonymous says:

    I’m not exactly a WalMart defender or anything, but the store in my area handled BF well last year. They were open Thanksgiving Day 24 hours and brought the pallets of BF merchandise up a few hours early – they just kept close so customers didn’t unwrap them early. I got in an hour before the sale (started at 5AM), found the items I came for (people grouped around the item they wanted), and was through the checkout and out of the store by 5:05.
    Doing this wouldn’t cut out all the rush, but at least lets customers into the store over a period of time, not all at once.

  72. DamonHiggins says:

    Has common sense flew out the window when it comes to saving a buck? These people should not only be ashamed they should be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law just to teach the rest a serious lesson.
    R.I.P. Jdimypai Damour!!!!

  73. Anonymous says:

    Walmart should have shut the registers down. What’s doubley screwed is to imagine walmart running the registers the whole while! That was a riot. Those people should have been detained!

  74. Anonymous says:

    The mob was stupid of course, but why were the Wal Mart employees so gung ho about keeping the doors shut? I mean at the point that they are about to literally tear the doors off the front of the store, just run away. What is Wal Mart going to do, punish you for not holding the line? It’s not a war zone, and even if it was I think those odds would permit retreat.

  75. Ayo says:

    from the yahoo article…

    “When they were saying they had to leave, that an employee got killed, people were yelling ‘I’ve been on line since yesterday morning,'” she said. “They kept shopping.”

    That is just sad. I hope they identify who is responsible, and prosecute them to the fullest. They took the meaning of door buster to a whole new level. Its just effin’ ridiculous.

  76. chenry says:

    So was that big screen TV worth another man’s life? Was it? God. Makes me sick.

  77. competentgirliegirl says:

    This disgusting behavior happens every year at these sales. They should be outlawed!

    Instead of wasting all that money advertising these cutthroat sales, marketers could agree to run their sales “after Thanksgiving” but not necessarily on that Friday, keeping the ad hype in check. Everyone with half a brain knows there will be good sales all through the holiday season including some that match the Black Friday ones. Why do they all have to be on one day? It’s stupid and dangerous, as we can plainly see, to incite the morons enmasse!

    No one’s life is worth losing in order so all the moronic consumer-monsters in society can have their way with a bargain.

    Disgusting, just downright sick.

  78. Inglix_the_Mad says:

    Just stopping by the thread to express my sorrow for the employee dying in such a horrible manner. I hope his family, if he has one (did not read the article), can remember the good he brought without too much sorrow.

    To all the morons that act like this mob:

    Grow the f*ck up.

  79. TheSurlyOne says:

    EVERY single person who participated in this stampede and murdered this poor soul should be prosecuted to the full extent of the law- mandatory jail time!

    There is something deeply and fundamentally flawed in any person who could walk past another human being whose life is in jeopardy- regardless of their motivation or reason for doing so! The reason (saving a few dollars on merchandise) sickens me and I hope it bears weight on the severity of their punishment!!!

    Store management AND the stampeding cretins killed this poor felllow- and GREED lit fuse…..

    I’m not a religious man, but I have a gut feeling that there is NO absolution for this! We’re way past the point of having the “true meaning of Christmas” discussion- the desire to save a few dollars overpowered basic human decency and compassion. I hope they all rot in HELL!

  80. vermontwriter says:

    Every year it is something like this. I think they should drop Black Friday sales. I stay home and do my shopping closer to Christmas when the crowds have died down.

    I hope they identify every single one of those shoppers and try them for murder. There’s just no excuse.

  81. closed_account says:

    Why would this guy stay in front of a door like this for $8 an hour? I hear a lot of people blaming the shoppers, and the store, but why not this guy? I mean, isn’t your life worth more than an $8 an hour job?

    • diamondmaster1 says:

      @chadbailey: I’ve seen this question asked several times now in this discussion, and must ask in return:

      How would this guy have *known* that he was risking his life at that particular moment? How events would unfold?
      That the mob would literally tear the doors off just to get in the store?

    • BluePlastic says:

      @chadbailey: Even though we hear about this kind of mob reaction each year, I don’t think the poor guy realized what he was standing in front of. He probably thought he was standing in front of people, not a single-minded, crazed shopping beast.

  82. diamondmaster1 says:

    I’ve seen this coming for a LONG time, as each year the behavior gets worse–and each year, there seems to be a growing mindset that glorifies in the hooliganism in media, discussion groups and worst of all shoppers themselves who see BF as a yearly ‘right of passage’.

    Last December 24 was my last day in retail after 30 years, and the BF insanity I was forced to endure yet again was one of the many reasons I finally called it quits.

    To all of you who expressed the thought that BF should be outlawed, good luck with trying to push that agenda into law; the major retailers alone will prove to you just who has the money to influence your lawmakers (you know, the guys who allegedly work for YOU, the PEOPLE, because YOU voted them into office) the most.

  83. EightIsEnough says:

    I’m waiting for “Black January” for any purchases.

  84. weave says:

    This is a case when lawsuits are a good thing. Make the cost greater than the profit realized. The chain will take, per store, some loss leaders that might cost then $100 each and limit them to 10 per store, like a Blu-Ray player, repeat for several other items, then that generates an atmosphere where people have to rush to get the items else they’ll be sold out.

    It’s a reckless disregard for safety.

    I bet the total loss per item they sell at these prices is less than the cost to advertise the things.

  85. Huabtais says:

    These people are consumer WHORES!

  86. KatherineDadinator says:

    They need to just put an end to this Black Friday bullshit. Pretty soon the black in “Black Friday” isn’t going to mean the retailers going in the black from sales, but from the number of employees that die because of the stupidity of the masses.
    Seriously, how many of the low-income wage slaves have to die until people realize that they need to start acting like adults? I realize that one or two people stopping to help might have gotten trampled, but godamn…
    They should charge Walmart for not having appropriate security precautions- I mean, come on. We all know that people will step over the bodies of their fellow man in order to get something they want. They should also take all the sales receipts from that crowd and charge them. There’s got to be a Good Samaritan law in NY.
    Then this Black Friday crap- over, done, fini, whatever. It’s all well and good to want t a deal, but we shouldn’t be sacrificing people on the altar of saving a few bucks.

  87. Youthier says:

    This is an awful, awful tragedy. But putting it in perspective, there are thousands of Wal-Marts, thousands of stores that had Black Friday sales and this happened at one place. I was at three places prior to their openings yesterday and everyone was pretty well-behaved (one person was a total bitch to an employee but it did accomplish the employee finally bringing out the rechargeable Dirt Devil brooms Target forgot to put on the floor that 7 of us were roaming the store for).

    While I think there are some problems, there are obviously plenty of stores and people that are capable of conducting Black Friday with some common sense.

  88. Possinator says:

    If Police Officers were not able to get the people under control I doubt personal security could.

  89. smokinfoo says:

    And what did the police do about all the people who trampled him? Nothing.

    • OletheaEurystheus says:

      @smokinfoo: they are trying to find them so I wouldnt say they are doing nothing. Problem is when a couple hundred people bumrush a store its a little bit hard to say “that guy did it, and her and her and him.”

      They are going back to the tapes and showing everyones faces on TV.

  90. 108Reliant says:

    I’m surprised that a publication like the consumerist got this wrong. [abclocal.go.com]

    The story I just pasted the link to says the man suffered a heart attack not died because he got trampled on.

    • mewyn dyner says:

      @108Reliant:

      Well, all reports say he was knocked to the floor first. He probably suffered from cardiac arrest after some degree of trauma, but it won’t know until the autopsy is done. Thing is it’s rather rare for a 34 year-old to just suffer outright from a heart attack, there is most likely another cause, and there is a most obvious other cause that can cause enough trauma to induce cardiac arrest.

    • closed_account says:

      @108Reliant: Thats funny. I recall watching some old cop in a suit say he did not suffer from any medical issues (aside from being trampled to death)

    • OletheaEurystheus says:

      @108Reliant: How about YOU got it wrong. He was trampled, even Wallyworld is saying it jackass.

      • madanthony says:

        @OletheaEurystheus:

        Umm, I wouldn’t say that Wal-Mart is saying he was trampled. They haven’t said a whole lot of anything beyond we’re sad that this happened and we’re investigating – their official statement is here.

        Do you really think a company is going to admit something that might be considered admitting guilt and thus leave them open to a huge amount of liability? They are keeping quiet, and probably praying that the autopsy shows the guy had a bad heart that was a ticking time bomb.

  91. pollyannacowgirl says:

    Are there even such great bargains? Putting aside for a moment the tragic death and mob mentality… Are these “sales” even saving people more money?

  92. parnote says:

    It’s things like this that have caused me and my wife to TOTALLY avoid ANY “Black Friday” sales. For the last two years (together … the last 5 years for myself), all of our Christmas shopping has been done online. We get better prices, avoid the crowds, and just sit back and wait for the USPS/UPS/FedEx to deliver everything to the house. Plus, I don’t have to spend the gas $$$ running all over town looking for the “deals.” Most of the deals online are FAR better than what you can get at any brick-n-mortar store. Now we know that we are/were justified in avoiding the traditional “mob mentality” that goes along with the annual Black Friday sales.

    I agree that the Wal-Mart managers should be held accountable for this man’s death. They should have taken measures to insure that the crowd remained orderly, even if it meant that they had to spend extra $$$ on hiring additional security.

    Maybe now we’ll see some type of “deterrent” system put in place, to avoid similar future incidents. Hmmm … perhaps electrify the doors with a low-amperage, 10,000 volt DC current (similar to that produced by a taser or stun gun) that will shock anyone who touches it until it is turned off simultaneously with the unlocking of the doors.

    Or even better yet … maybe we will finally see an end of all this Black Friday insanity, and just simply outlaw such sales.

    Hopefully, something good will come from this young man’s death.

  93. jpdanzig says:

    I must agree with others who say the responsibility lies totally with Walmart, who were negligent in not hiring enough security to control the crowd and protect their employees and shoppers during their Black Friday promotion.

    I hope the family of the fallen employee sue the pants off Walmart and win such a large amount that the store will be dissuaded from ever mounting such a promotion without making proper security arrangements again.

    Yes, this is a story about greed, but the crowd who showed up to score big savings were only half the greedy party. The other is Walmart, who cheaped out on security to save a few bucks.

    A Black Friday indeed…

  94. synergy says:

    Again, I don’t get this annual frenzy. There is nothing I am willing to put myself into a mob for except food and water. Poor man. He was possibly one of those 78 year old men who lost their Enron-killed pension and had to suffer the indignity of being a Walmart employee.

    • catnapped says:

      @synergy: The employee was 34 years old. As for your comment about food and water, this may be a harbinger of things to come in which case, god help us all…

  95. Anonymous says:

    I don’t know who to blame… but that poor man and his family. The thing that gets me, beside the obvious lack of compassion and disregard for a human life within the mob, is that Walmart always has good prices. I mean, I know we’re in a recession, and I can’t comprehend acting this way anywhere, but a price break at Walmart is not the same as a price break at an upscale store where the prices are usually outrageous. And those TVs are not going for free. Anyways, that is not the most important issue. But the mob mentality issue is something that I really don’t understand.

  96. bnelson333 says:

    A good deal on cheap consumer crap is NOT worth anybody’s life, this lunacy needs to stop.

  97. cinlouwho says:

    The “Crowd (or Mob) Mentality” we learned about in Sociology. This theory has proven true for many years:
    [www.geocities.com]

  98. parnote says:

    How about try this YouTube video for a perspective of the crowd from OUTSIDE the store (same store) … totally disgusting!

  99. parnote says:

    Holy shit! The 8-month pregnant woman suffered a miscarriage from this! So now two lives have been taken, in addition to the up to 8 people who were injured.

    • pollyannacowgirl says:

      @parnote: I’m sorry she lost her baby, but she was very very foolish. It was a really bad decision to participate in something that has CLEARLY led to stampedes in the past.

      Back when I was pregnant with my first child, I desperately wanted to attend an anti-war protest at the UN. I didn’t go because I knew that sometimes protests get out of hand and there was a risk that I or my unborn child could be harmed.

      At 8 months pregnant, I can’t imagine wanting to stand in line at 3:00 in the morning in the cold without a bathroom nearbly — for any reason.

      She was a dumbass, plain and simple.

      • parnote says:

        @pollyannacowgirl: Granted, she was a dumb ass for even placing her unborn child in such peril. But what is equally appalling are the videos of the “Black Friday” rush in other parts of the country on YouTube showing so-called “parents” carrying babies in their arms! We’re talking BABIES … as in under one (1) year old!!! Are people so stupid/dumb as to line up in the wee hours of a cold morning with their BABIES in tow? Those folks are total dumb asses as well.

    • Cafezinha says:

      @parnote: I’ve heard conflicting reports as to whether or not the woman lost the baby. Some stories have said yes, some said no, some said it wasn’t clear. Do we have a link with confirmation in either direction?

  100. Anonymous says:

    I don’t understand the thought behind these early morning doorbusters! They only cause trouble. Put out the special sale, open at normal times and run it for one day or throughout the weekend. I have never stood in line for one of these and refuse to shop on Black Friday. It is my biggest non-shopping day of the year. I can’t afford the items one way or the other and it sickens me to see welfare and Medicaid patrons blowing away their money on the item of the day. Spend it on food and clothing for your family, leave the tv’s and Wii’s out of it. Their priorities are all wrong, as shown by the disregard of a human life! Selfish, selfish people.

  101. hoffmeister_hoff says:

    With all of the bad things I read about everyday, nothing has disturbed me more than this. This was a poor innocent joe, probably was trying to earn some extra money for his family’s own Christmas. May have had young children, I don’t know. Opening the doors at a major retailer shouldn’t be potentially fatal.

    He, and no other retail employee deserves to die a humiliating death at the hands of savage cretins seeking poorly made crap.

    Think about what type of indiviual would start waiting in line at a WalMart on Thanksgiving night to purchase a $9.00 Incredible Hunk DVD, and not think about killing someone to save 10 bucks. Most likely, a complete miscreant. Walmart knows what type of customers they have and should have appropriate security.

    I needed some laundry detergent and paper towels this morning, and I’ll usually got to Walmart once a month to purchase these items. But I went to Safeway instead, and just paid more, because I was actually scared to go to WalMart.

  102. Zorantor says:

    I often go shopping on Black Friday, but never, ever, ever at a department store.

    I usually hit places like local record shops or clothing stores. Smaller places that have more modest sales, but that are shoppable.

    It’s absolutely appalling to anyone with any common sense or decency that these already-rich corporations would intentionally engineer a hazardous and potentially fatal event like Black Friday. Irresponsible and disgusting.

  103. Grrrrrrr, now with two buns made of bacon. says:

    I am sad for this country when I see such tradgedy caused by people who will trample another human being just to be the first in line to get $20 off on Guitar Hero.

  104. newfenoix says:

    Outlaw after Thanksgiving sales.

  105. BytheSea says:

    I wonder why they were holding the doors. Were they trying to keep the mob out, or trying to keep the doors from falling on people? Cuz it sounds like a bad idea for a few people to keep out a mob of hundreds.

  106. BytheSea says:

    I wish people would stop saying that this is down to consumer culture or money or sales or the hype of Black Friday. This had nothing to do with any of that. It was a mob of people out of control and motives mean nothing. A mob of people are a herd of bulls, if you stop you die. Anyone else in that mob who stopped could have been the second casualty.

  107. Anonymous says:

    Nothing brings out the season more than the death of a minimum wage employee and the physical assault of a pregnant woman.

  108. tbax929 says:

    I fired up the laptop yesterday morning about 7 and was finished with my Christmas shopping by 11. I got a ton of good deals and, more importantly, I didn’t have to deal with the idiots out shopping. I really wish retailers would stop having the Black Friday sales, even though I know that’ll never happen. Since it won’t ever stop, we’ll continue to get more and more of these tragic stories every year.

  109. Parting says:

    Now please use Walmart’s cameras, and charge all those f@ckers with murder. I really feel stabby now.

    This is how much a life is worth for these shoppers? Let’s give them some prison time!

  110. bsalamon says:

    as a person who lives in that area, and has shopped next door at Home Depot and NWL, I am pissed off. All those shoppers who killed this man should be held jointly and severally liable for this action. Also, the cops who left the place at 4:30am for no real reason should be charged criminally. this is beyond embarrassing.

    • Anonymous says:

      @bsalamon: dont bring home depot into this story, be pissed off at walmart not home depot ..proud hd employee–home depot and walmart are 2 seperate corporations! we had no trouble on black friday-and i work at a ghetto store in houston, thank you

  111. ironchef says:

    American consumerism is disgraceful. A god damned feeding frenzy.

  112. Scatter says:

    I think that eventually the whole Black Friday thing is going to have to change.

    First of all, are any companies REALLY doing their customers a favor by opening up at 6, 5 or even 4 in the morning and then only stocking a very limited quantity of the products that most people want? I sure the hell don’t want to have to get up at 3am in order to shop for something that I’d like to buy. And I’m sure that the employees of retail stores don’t want to deal with getting up that early and working ridiculous hours for the same pay.

    What these companies need to do is to stop teasing us. If you’re only going to have 10 of the laptops for $399 then announce it in stores for a few weeks beforehand and then have people register for vouchers for them on the companies website.

    This would prevent most of the mob mentality and competitiveness that shoppers are driven to when they get to a store at 5am and see 500 other people there.

  113. Corporate-Shill says:

    Sad, sad, sad.

    All in the name of greed.

    The sadder part? The people that stepped over the guy as he laid dying. I hope those people have a rememberable Christmas… as they deal with the nightmares that resulted from their greed.

  114. shufflemoomin says:

    Well done America. Well done. Take a bow.

  115. humphrmi says:

    I expect to see Wal Mart implement the same sort of ticket system that (I think most) Best Buys use.

  116. Anonymous says:

    A woman named Kitty Genovese was killed in NYC in the 1960’s while many people heard her screams for many minutes. Just knowing and staying mindful that these terrible things can happen seems to have a sobering and maturing effect, except that new people come along who didn’t get the word, until now . . .

  117. mushroom104 says:

    I can’t even put words to my disgust over this. It’s just totally mind blowing. Wal Mart doesn’t sell anything I need that bad.

    I could understand it if we were talking about a stampede in a grocery store in some third world country where people were starving to death…but a Wal Mart in New York? Unbelievable.

    For the last couple of years, if I do any shopping (other than groceries and toiletries) between November and December it get’s done online.

  118. cluberti says:

    “A person is smart. People are dumb, panicky, dangerous animals and you know it.”

    Who knew the movie Men In Black was so accurate on human behavior?

  119. batsy says:

    This isn’t something you wouldn’t see at your average mosh pit. I’m just continuously confused as to why moshers do it – they’re not rushing to get a plasma television or anything. But god.. what a tragedy.

    • CFinWV says:

      @batsy: Sorry, but with any mosh pit I’ve seen they have actually HELPED people get out of there if they fall or get hurt. This was nothing more than a mob.

      • batsy says:

        @CFinWV: And what’s the cause of the fall or injury? The mosh pit…

        I’m not saying moshers don’t help people who need help, but it’s the same physical forces and mob mentality at work.

  120. tailstoo says:

    They way to stop this is to prevent retailers from putting limits on their “Door Busters.” They would cry foul, but people have proven time and again how stupid they are when it comes to crazy deals (I recall when a man pulled a gun on a CompUSA employee in Miami during the windows 98 launch when he was told that the $98 computers had run out.)

    Retailers love the attention that their ads get, and they make these deals to get just that. Thousands of people at their door when they open. If customers knew that they could get the same deal at 8am, or 11am, then there wouldn’t be such a crazy rush.

    Sure it would mean much lower discounts, but that’s okay – the Black Friday craze just shows how F’ed up our priorities are anyway.

  121. katieoh says:

    everyone should pay some sort of reparations to that poor man’s family. if the li walmart is anything like my local one, they have those assholes on security tape and they should all be prosecuted for rioting. charge the ones that started the pushing with murder.

    i hate people.

    • Rectilinear Propagation says:

      @katieoh: THIS

      Honestly, the only thing I want to hear next from this is that people are getting charged with something.

  122. CaptainConsumer says:

    Any of you youngsters remember the 1979 tragedy at the Who concert in Cincinnati? After 11 people were trampled to death, legislation QUICKLY was enacted to stop ‘festival seating’ and every ticket sold had to come with an assigned seat.

    Perhaps it’s time on Black Friday to REQUIRE those online to have a ticket for entering the store, 500 people in the store at a time perhaps. The stores would be held legally responsible for ensuring they had proper security for the safety of the general public. Sure retailers will piss and moan, my reply, SO WHAT.

    It is EXTREMELY disingenuous for any of these big box retailers (and this just happened to happen at Wal-Mart, it could have been Best Buy or any other big box store) to get exactly what they want, slobbering mobs of over-caffienated, shopping mad people and then to deny responsibility for the golem they have willfully created.

    I’m loathe to add any new laws but it is apparent, for the safety of responsible shoppers who WANT to participate in shopping such as this to be protected.

  123. Consumerist-Moderator-Roz says:

    Folks, just a friendly reminder to keep it civil.

    Disagreeing with each other is fine. Escalating disagreement and debate to name-calling will not be tolerated.

    Please make sure that your comments are within our guidelines before commenting or risk revocation of your commenting privileges.

  124. catnapped says:

    Do the combination of this and Walmart’s incessant airing of that register lane holday showtunes commercial make anyone else sick to their stomach?

    • diamondmaster1 says:

      @catnapped: Ah yes–the Ringing of the Registers WallyWorld commercial that always has me LMAO–because every one of the lanes is staffed and open at once. With bright, energetically smiling faces, just dying to do business.

      ..and if you look at the background during this thing, there’s no one on the sales floor for them to be smiling at..not a customer OR associate.

  125. Anonymous says:

    I spent 8 hours in line at a FRY’s, 50th in line. an hour before any employee arrived to open the store, we got bum-rushed by the hundreds of people in line behind us. Everyone who waited patiently lost their spots.

    I blame the situation on two groups. Highschool students who use the evening as an excuse to party all through the night. The other group are mexicans. They have no morals.

  126. kaptainkk says:

    Welcome to America! A microcosm of mindless consumerism!

  127. Aisley says:

    People, people, people. When are we going to stop the childish behavior of blaming others for our actions and start accepting respnsibility for them? What Walmart did or din’t do is irrelevant. The animals pretending to be shoppers are the ones to have ALL the responsibility on this. We all know that you cannot control the things that happen. You can just control your reaction to them. Didn’t we got angry when a policeman killed a groom last year without a reason? Did we say that the policeman should have CONTROLLED himself? (and I think he should have!). Then why we want a policeman to control himself from commiting a senseless killing, but do not hold that mob to the same standard? In the most farfetch of cases we can still say that the policeman was right and try to make it look that way. In the case of the Walmart employee HOMICIDE there’s no chance. Look at the videos, interview employees, and round as many of those killers as you can and march their posteriors to jail.

    • floraposte says:

      @Aisley: I’ll have to agree in order to disagree–Walmart is included in those who need to accept responsibility for their actions. Captain Consumer describes the known problem with this sort of door crush above; it’s also happened at soccer games. The New York Times has a good piece about the event at [www.nytimes.com]

      If it’s clear from the videos that people are knowingly inflicting fatal injury on the poor man, by all means, they’re criminals who deserve their fate. But that’s not enough to get Wal-Mart off the hook for setting up a situation that’s demonstrably and forseeably dangerous. It’s not an either/or.

    • JPinCLE says:

      @Aisley:

      The whole Black Friday mess needs to be outlawed just like a bar staying open and serving beer all night.

      People are just too fucking self absorbed for incidents like this to stop.

      I am usually NOT a fan of government or law enforcement intervention, but it sure seems to be bordering on necessary, here.

      I have NO idea how to do it right, but if I’m in any position of power, I look at this and say, “Nope… people can’t behave like responsible adults… we have to take away this privilege.”

      Sick.

  128. Anonymous says:

    I worked at wal-mart during the back to school rush in the office supply section. There were so many people fighting and cussing each other that I spent most of my time reporting incidents to management. I never tried to break it up. People are just too crazy when it comes to saving a few cents. Wal-mart should have had police there for black friday. They should have had some type of crowd control.

    There was a fist fight over a note book when I worked there. Two grown men beating the crap out of each other over a lisa frank note book. Crazy, just crazy.

  129. LaneFlying fox says:

    Looks like all those speeches Bill Cosby has been giving have not been heard…..

  130. Anonymous says:

    Has anyone actually witnessed a cattle stampede? The ones at the front can’t just stop at will…they are being pressed from the rear! WalMart should have had professional crowd control! They are liable.

  131. JollyJumjuck says:

    Not sure if this has been mentioned, but at least one shopper was heard to say, (after it was announced that shopping would be suspended because an employee had been killed) “I’ve been waiting outside since last night.” So the callousness and lack of humanity was not confined to the initial stampede. There were obviously at least some shoppers who were (and probably still are) OBLIVIOUS to the fact that their actions caused the death of a fellow human being. Because saving money is the most important thing in their lives, fuck the rest of the world attitude prevails.

  132. terrapin says:

    Is this the sign of the Big Box Store take over America syndrome? We loose all our good jobs to China so Big Box retailers and their OVERPAID executives and owners can put more change in their pockets. While the tax payer foots a trillion dollar recovery bill these businesses. Finally the trampling of a consumer (R.I.P.) who simply wants to spend their hard earned dollar.

    Lets try to get back to the Ma&Pa type stores for the good of all.

  133. Novaload says:

    Time to sue Walmart big time for deliberately creating a situation they knew would cause a frenzy, for not providing security and for not closing the store and detaining the “shoppers” for questioning. But for their unsafe practices, this could not have happened.

  134. Sollus says:

    I wish they would have locked all of the doors and arrested every single customer in that store.

    • ZekeSulastin says:

      @Sollus: Because certainly every customer in the store is culpable in the man’s death.

      Be real.

    • Rectilinear Propagation says:

      @Sollus: I don’t think they should have arrested everybody but I think they should have held everyone until the people on the video were identified.

  135. Anonymous says:

    I believe a federal law now needs to be put in place similar to that for buying concert tickets. A lotto system that determines who gets in first etc., real security with real arrest and detain powers, and if it gets out of hand, the store must immediately close for 8 hours. What at the least should’ve happened here, only a 24 hour immediate shutdown as that particular walmart, IMO, was now a murder crime scene.

    -Markus

  136. u1itn0w2day says:

    I think there’s going to be some liability issues here along with the fatality since several others were injured and taken to a hospital .

    I heard a shrink on CNN Headline News last night and she started to blame the economic conditions and the anchor stopped her and pointed out this stampede wasn’t over food .

    Walmart will blame the tramplers and tramplers will blame Walmart .I do not say this jokingly but if at least one of these tramplers is caught and identified what’s to stop the excuse-I was running for the restroom and claim a medical emergency of their own .Still BS .And they’ll claim like the one manager said -people in those lines wind up being cold,tired and hungry among other things .Again not an excuse but it will be used .

    Walmart should have a ticket system and/or demanded a more structered and orderly LINE before opening.The customers knowing basically they basically were on an all night camping trip( be it outside a Walmart instead of the woods) should have planned for one physically and mentally .

    Too me the ends do NOT justify the means and that’s basically what’s going here .

    • Rectilinear Propagation says:

      I heard a shrink on CNN Headline News last night and she started to blame the economic conditions and the anchor stopped her and pointed out this stampede wasn’t over food .

      @u1itn0w2day: Good for the anchor.

  137. u1itn0w2day says:

    What’s one of things most people do when they accidentally bump into somebody-they say excuse me .What’s one of the things that people do when they want to get by someone-they say excuse me .

    They say excuse me because they know they just violated someone’s personal space or will have to invade their space to get by .

    But to not think twice about stepping on someone or pushing someone aside… How many ball games,concerts,movies,buses,trains,planes or over crowded bars and clubs have most people been to where you have to slither by and say excuse to just about everyone to get to the other side of the room ? How many crowded situations have you been to like that without incident or you did say excuse and felt embarrased or guilty that you were in someone’s space .I’m still trying to get how the crowd : the mob or the alledged people outside didn’t even feel or didn’t realize they were offending if not hurting someone by barging through the doors and pushing into people AND employees .

    There were so many lines crossed here I just don’t get it .

  138. Bargaineering.com says:

    They tore the freaking doors off the hinges and STEPPED on people… what the heck is wrong with these people? I hope they somehow managed to catch some of these people.

  139. chemmy says:

    Ok, I work right by this Wal Mart. It’s in a mall complex with a Macy’s, Target and dozens of other stores. No matter the day of week, time of year, time of day, this Wal Mart is always a mad house.

    I have stopped in there at 2PM on a Wednesday afternoon in mid-May and it is still a madhouse. It never made sense because I would walk across the parking lot to Target for the same item (at approx the same price) and there was no madhouse.

    I absolutely refuse to shop in this WalMart – I’ve been in dozens and have never seen anything like this in my life… So as sad as it is… suffice it to say that this was a disaster waiting to happen. And unfortunately, it did – with tragic results. The entire store – employees, managers, everybody – needs to be fully retrained and the store needs to institute a zero tolerance policy for the way the employees act and get away with it.

    I am not saying it’s the store’s fault (I mean, the poor guy was trampled by the neighborhood morons) but at the same time, the store is pretty much a madhouse ALL THE TIME. Restore some order NOW. Customers – shape up or ship out. They have the right to refuse service and should do so and kick your asses out.

    It’s sad something like this had to happen. I hope the rich-ass Waltons will do right by this guy’s family (no, they don’t have to… but it would be a nice gesture).

  140. Anonymous says:

    Wal-mart is to blame as they should have taken precautions to only let so many in the store @ a time. I would think that 2000 is way over the fire code.

    The fact that problems such as this happen each year @ Wal-mart…without the company doing anything differently each year, says that they care more about profit than human safety.

    Three years ago, I was #5 in line and as I entered the store, I was cold-cocked by a guy who ran in from the parking lot. I was there for laptop computers and this guy wanted 4, so he took measures to secure them. The woman who was #3 in line saw the frenzy and actually laid upon her laptop to protect it. It was no use, as the guy picked her up and tossed her aside to get the computer.

    And what did Wal-mart do? Nothing.

    They have been told for years to implement a ticketing system for BF. We never even saw one employee from Wal-mart come out and and request us to come in nice and calm. They invite the frenzy and feed off its victims.

    I would say that this is very close to a ‘negligible homicide’ case as Wal-mart has been warned that this would happen one day and they still haven’t take the measures to prevent tragedies such as this.

    Damn you Wal-mart, Damn you to hell! I hope for a large multi-store lawsuit….maybe then they will change their process and policies.

  141. calquist says:

    I saw this on the news and got a little excited to read all the comments about it on this site. Is that sad?

  142. SWBLOOPERS says:

    “I hope you appreciate that gift. You have no idea how many people I had to kill to get it!”

    Yes, that’s a merry Christmas thought…

  143. jcargill says:

    Three other people were injured, including a woman who miscarried an 8 month pregnancy after being trampled.

    I’ll bet my last turkey sandwich there were plain-clothes security guards in the aisles waiting for people to attempt shoplifting. Well, at least no $29 dvd players were harmed in the riot.

    Everybody is talking about this tragedy: work, family, barber shop, church, etc., yet on Black Friday all the newsies could do all day long was beat the drum to shop shop shop!!! I suppose they don’t want to be a buzzkill for shoppers–wouldn’t want to slow down the consumption.

  144. Marshfield says:

    As a carpenter and remodeler, I think I need to point out that every picture I’ve seen shows SLIDING doors, not swinging doors. Sliding doors have tracks not hinges. All the reports of the doors being knocked off or pulled off their hinges are incorrect. It wouldn’t be hard to push a door off its tracks, in fact probably easier than detaching a door from its hinges.

    Yeah, nit picking I know but if they got this wrong, we should wonder what else they got wrong.

  145. Anonymous says:

    It’s because of insanity like this that I will forever boycott “Black Friday” from here on out — in fact, I’ll avoid shopping anywhere for that whole extended weekend.

    All of the “doorbuster deals” being offered are offered in such ridiculously limited quantities that you literally have to camp out in the cold for an entire day and night just for a VERY remote shot at getting that particular item anyway. Everything else is regular price, or on sale for the duration, so why play the Black Friday Mob Game at all?

    It’s just gotten to be a truly ugly mess. Best to just avoid it entirely.

  146. Parting says:

    In today’s news :
    Autopsy: Wal-Mart Worker Was “Trampled to Death”

    [gothamist.com]

  147. Mr.SithNinja says:

    I worked at Walmart for over a year and on 2 Black Fridays. I have to say this doesn’t even come close to surprising me. Given the WalMart clientelle, and the way WalMarts are run, and the people who work there, I am surprised it didn’t happen in more places and every year.

  148. redkamel says:

    Whats even sadder is I doubt few of the shoppers even reflected on how sad their life/society is if they are willing to not only wait in the rain, at night, on thanksgiving, with such fervor that they will wrestle and trample other people, just to save a few bucks on the completeley optional and non essential purchase of Guitar Hero.

  149. Anonymous says:

    We always stay home and put up our holiday decorations on the Friday after Thanksgiving. You can bet we’ll be sticking to our own schedule in the future, knowing what we’re missing is getting worse each year!

  150. xdurus says:

    It’s unfortunate that someone lost their life this way and Walmart should have hired better security for crowd control.I myself working as security and being under staffed for large rock shows have found myself on the floor of a huge mob and there is nothing anyone can really do! I can remember looking up at people and seeing the look on their faces and them wanting to help but it is impossible for them to do anything with that much uncontrollable mass/force being applied.Fortunately I was able to work my way back to my feet which was no easy task even for me being 6’2″ 240lbs and in good physical shape.
    I’m sure everyone in the crowd at Walmart weren’t acting like uncontrollable savages, it’s just that when there is a huge unorganized mass of people all taking a half step forward in anticipation of entering the store it creates an unstoppable force at the front of the crowd.The only people I can see as being labeled complete and ignorant jack-asses are those who were angry that the store was closing due to a life being lost, and of course Walmart’s neglect of hiring trained security personnel for crowd control.

  151. fonfa says:

    Is shopping really that important?

    :(

  152. Anonymous says:

    I don’t know about you guys, but if I had my way, I would have all shoppers arrested and charged with first-degree murder. Maybe over the top, but there has to be some justice for killing someone just to save a few bucks.