I have found the thief and its name is kitty
Microsoft hasn’t returned Tiffany’s XBox 360 for four months because they think she is a thief, even though she has her original receipt and a credit card statement proving that she is the console’s rightful owner. Microsoft repaired the XBox back in January and tried to return it via FedEx, but a shipping snafu landed the box back at Microsoft’s service center. Tiffany has called repeatedly. She even sent a letter to Microsoft’s legal department, after sending her receipt and statement, asking how else she could prove ownership. That was 22 days ago. She has yet to receive a response.
Tiffany writes:
I’m writing to you in hopes (just like Dustin at the military base, but possibly a little more desperate) that some day in the near future I can get my Xbox360 back.I sent it to Microsoft to fix on January 5, 2008 and shipped it back to me on February 2, 2008; however, FedEx shipped it to my home address and I unfortunately couldn’t sign for it because I was stuck at work. I requested that FedEx change the delivery address to my work address, but they said they couldn’t without Microsoft’s permission. I asked FedEx to hold it at the shipping center but it accidentally got returned to Microsoft’s service center.
At that point, Microsoft had done no wrong, but this is where it starts to get frustratingly nightmarish. I contacted Microsoft who assured me that they would send the package back, this time to my work address where the package could be signed for during normal work hours; however, somewhere along the line, Microsoft decided I had stolen the Xbox from the original owner since it was suspicious that I was “opening two repair orders” in such a short time. Countless (I lost track after 10ish) phone calls were made to Microsoft customer support about my case in a fruitless battle to get them to send me my console back, but they kept dancing around the reason(s) they were refusing to send it back to me. Eventually, a customer service representative admitted that all along they were unauthorized and had no means to actually help me, so all the times they claimed a supervisor assigned to my case would contact me about my case were lies. They eventually coughed up an address to the Microsoft Legal Department and said if I sent a letter their way, they would help me out. She hinted that the reason corporate had put a hold on my console may be because they didn’t believe I was the original owner, despite the fact that I sent them a copy of my receipt and credit card statement as bona fide proof of purchase.
My coworker had suffered similar bad luck with his console repair and also had to write the legal department several letters before finally receiving his console back, so I felt like I finally had a chance to get my missing console returned to me. I sent a letter to the Microsoft Legal Department and CC’d a copy to the Vice President of Consumer Affairs at Microsoft 22 days ago begging for at least a response to my letter. Thus far, my e-mail inbox has remained vacant and my phone has not rung with news from Microsoft.
At this point, I’m quite at the end of my line and know that contacting customer support would just wring what little humanity I have left out of my soul. I noticed last week you posted about Dustin’s grief with Microsoft not sending him a box to ship his Xbox in for repairs and also provided some links to file a small claim and contact my attorney general. I’m wondering if you can assist me further in any way, or know of someone who can since you’ve mentioned that multitudes of people of submitted similar complaints. Being completely left in the dark as to why they won’t send my Xbox back to me after four months is making me more than a little crazy.
Thanks,
Tiffany
Looks like Alberto Gonzalez got a job with Microsoft. Your XBox may be transfered to Gitmo until it provides irrefutable proof of its owner’s true identity. Efforts to identify you will result in an extended and unchallengable sentence.
You can try going even higher, straight to the top, and emailing big billg@microsoft.com, but reason apparently has no home at Microsoft.
Our advice to reader Dustin, who, after three months, still hadn’t received a shipping box, was to speak with his credit card company, consider small claims court, and to launch the mighty Executive Email Carpet Bomb. Tiffany wants even more, a customer service weapon so powerful, so effective, that it hides beyond our conception. For that, we’re going to turn this one over to you, our beloved and infallible Consumerists. Tiffany has reasoned, waited, begged, all without results. What should she do next?
PREVIOUSLY: It’s Been 3 Months And 12 Days Since My XBOX Broke And Microsoft Still Won’t Send Me A Box
(Photo: Jake of 8bitjoystick.com)
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Sounds a bit extreme, but plee the fifth. Nor shall any person be deprived of life, liberty, or PROPERTY. If you really want to, you can fight this and take it to the Supreme Court. No matter how great MS’s lawyers may be, in front of the Supreme Court, they look at facts. You have PROOF that it is your Xbox and they are DEPRIVING you your PROPERTY. Send a god damn message to corporate that way, I’m sure the crappy customer support would stop then. And this really would work. I’m sure if you conversed with your lawyer his jaw would drop in a heartbeat.
If Tiffany was serious .. she would file a police report for theft of property. This is a clear cut case. Microsoft stole her property, and need to be held accountable.
This is really simple … common sense really …
Help me out here…
@The Whaleman: While I agree, I think the PS3 comments make sense in that it doesn’t seem worth it to bother with the 360 and the only way to play most games that are released on the 360 is to get a PS3 and play it on that. Shizz, if they put the same games out for the Wii; I’d say get a Wii but such is life.
Take 2…
Help me out here…if she doesn’t live in WA state, how is small claims court going to help? Sure, she’ll win, but how does she collect? An attorney would charge more than the a new xBox will cost. And I can just see MS corporate now – “Sure, you won, now try and collect.”
This doesn’t end well, I’m afraid…
@Ess: WRONG! It is a crime because they are refusing to return the property.
I would say – get the attention of Major Nelson. Don’t know if it will help or not but he’s the most visible face of Xbox and if he sees this story he might be able to help sort it out.
This problem has an easy fix. Sue them.
You have been too kind just sending them polite letters and phone calls. They have your property that you bought with your own money and won’t cooperate to give it back.
Sue them.
@Ess: Thank you for posting that. I was about to, and you saved me the trouble.
@DarkFestim: Thank you for posting the dumbest comment in Consumerist history.
Small claims court might be the route to go – but also contacting the better business bureau may not hurt, I’m assuming that Microsoft is a member.
@Jinx
I’m not sure that filing a police report would be the first thing to come to mind but perhaps that would get the ball rolling.
IMHO when the right people hear about it the situation will be corrected. Microsoft is an extremely large company. I’m not trying to defend them here, merely explain that customer service woes at such a mammoth company often get lost in the bureaucracy. So, while there is an excuse for this, it’s not an acceptable one.
My 360 needed repair about the same time as Tiffany’s and I sent my xbox into be repaired, BUT…
When you call in to the repair line and they set you up the SPECIFICALLY TELL YOU tha the xbox can ONLY be shipped to the address on the account (I have LIVE) and there is abslutely NO exception to this.
While MS needs to get their crap in gear and get ther 360 back to her, Tiffany should have LISTENED to the repair line whn they told her they could not ship it to a work address or any other. To call FedEx and request a change in delivery address just raised all sorts of red flags. Thats not MS’s fault.
@DarkFestim:
^ ^
$ $
.
^^^
| |
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Is what his face would look like if he looked like symbols on a keyboard!
@moe84:
boo, looked better when I was typing it… /sigh
Worst console ever.
@DarkFestim:
kthnx.
Hello there, I am new to commenting here, but have been reading for quite some time. First and foremost let me say that I am sorry for my grammar in advance. My point of view on the whole thing (as well as other comments) is from a perspective that some of you may or may not have ever had. I am big into electronics, and consumerism in general. At the same time I currently work for a very large business in electronics and have worked for several in the past. I will not speak the name of my current employer due to privacy policies they have. I can see where everybody is coming from and can understand the reason most people assume that if you get screwed by a company the best thing you should do is call to their customer support line (If they have one) and scream, yell, cuss, demand things etc. Let me say that this does indeed get you places sometimes, however you would be better off to go about it differently. Most people assume that if you call in and get up to a supervisor level that you will get what you want with enough yelling, well say for example the level one rep you spoke with as well as the supervisor wants to help you very much and is personally willing to do what you want. In this scenario we are going to assume that they work for “Big Mart”, and the big wigs of “Big Mart” do not like it when their employees play around with their money. They have policies that prevent all of their reps from just doing what you want, no matter how much you curse etc, the only thing you are going to get in this scenario is upsetting the rep you speak with (who is just another person like you and I trying to do a job). Granted most of the places you speak to are outsourced and it requires a lot of patients in order to keep from yelling at them trying to get them to even understand english, however there are many places based right here in the states. Lets go back now to places I have worked, being big into consumer electronics I have went from company to company trying to find one that actually allows their employees to treat their customers well, I have worked in places that do, as well as places that do now. Assuming that “Big Mart” is one of the places that do not allow their reps to make a free will decision to help their customer we can compare them to Microsoft AND Sony in this case (trust me, both of these companies have their good and bad parts). Now lets assume that “Big Mart” has your “extreme game console” in for repairs and will not ship it to you because they think you are not the owner. At first you call, get a rep that is at least understanding the situation but tell you that they can’t just sent it out without authorization. You start to get upset and speak with a supervisor on duty, they again tell you “sorry, we cant do this”. At this point any natural human being would start to get frustrated but this is also the vital point of how you succeed. Kindly ask them for the specific reason as to why they cant send your “extreme gaming system” back from “Big Mart’s” repair center. Take careful notes about what he/she says and most important, do not start yelling, cursing etc. Now before we go further, you may ask why I keep suggesting that you don’t scream, curse and throw things as you are wanting so badly to do. Well my reason is simple, it is for your protection as well as your AND the rep’s better. Making threats over the phone CAN be enforced through law, I will admit that I do not know the specifics of this, but trust me, it can be enforced. Now you are most likely thinking, well cursing is not a threat… Well, no it isn’t, but it can very easily be misconstrued as one. OK on to the next step, once you take careful notes of the reasons they will not send your system back kindly and calmly ask them what you need to do in order to fulfill your end of the deal in order to get it sent back. Again, take careful notes. At this point you want to ask the supervisor to note your conversation in their system (if they have a customer department they will have a log system). At this point you want to do as they request, to a reasonable extent and call back. Once you call back explain that you have done everything the supervisor has requested and it should be noted in their system and you want your system back. Here is the tricky part, they may or may not send it back, for the lady in this letter she still did not get it back. Here is where you want to save any documentation you have, have them email/fax you any form of documentation requesting verification info from you so you will have ammunition to put in your gun. Again, I cannot stress enough that screaming over the phone is not going to help you, do not turn into an ass (this method I am describing has helped me in the past with getting things done through questionable companies I made a mistake to deal with).
OK, I know this is long and you are dead by now, but we are almost finished. At this point you want to try not to contact the place again making repeated calls which will get logged over and over in their system, the people you would be talking to most likely are not even allowed to do anything other than what the head of the company allows, and they do not want to loose their job to do it for one of the 100 people they talk to in a day. Once you have gathered all of your resources and done everything on your end that they ask you will want to call a lawyer. Schedule an appointment with him and take into his office any documentation you can get your hands on (including credit card statements, receipts etc.) and explain that you are looking to file a law suit against “Big Mart” and have him contact the companies legal department on your behalf expressing that you are considering filing a law suit. Explain to him that you would really like to just get your system or your money back but also express that seeing as how you have had to go to him in order to get what is yours back you would also like to have them pay your lawyers fees. Next you wait it out a bit and see if they work with you, seeing as how you have them cornered with documentation both in your records AND their internal system there is not much they can say. If they fail to give you your property back and pay any expenses to a certain degree that you have had to go through to get to this point, go ahead and take them to court. Your lawyer can at this point request records from their internal system to be printed and brought into the court room. Now at this point you will be glad you were not an ass to the rep you spoke with, because if they decided to note in the system that you were making threats, were abusive etc. it is only going to hurt you in front of the judge. If the judge sees that their own system shows that you were trying everything you can to work with them, he would be out of his mind to not rule in your favor. This next part is up to you – seeing as how you have had to go as far as going into court, you may want to consider pushing for more than lawyer fees and your equipment back. Dont ask for anything irrational, but who’s to say you cant get an easy two grand from “Big Mart’s” huge penny bank for your troubles. Once again, if you played it cool from the beginning and have done everything you can to legally prove that you are not to blame for any of this and the company is holding your property refusing to give it up, then you should be a penguin in the ice.
Sorry for such a huge post, but I really feel that I should share my thoughts with people, regardless of how I may get flamed over this. Having previously worked for SEVERAL businesses like this in my time, even being a supervisor at a few, as well as having my fair share of bad experiences as the consumer, I have found that this method usually works the best.
One final note is more of an opinion – do not be a huge fanboy of any one company/manufacturer. They all have their ups and downs. An excellent company can go down hill when ownership is transfered and they outsource. Every company can also have their flukes, even if everything else they make is golden. Blindly buying up anything you can just because it has “Sony” or “Microsoft” printed on it will only result in you eventually getting burned if you do not do some research.
Thank you for reading if you have made it this far, and may the force be with you in your venture to get your Xbox back.
What if Microsoft has mistakenly sent it out to another customer who is not replying to Microsoft’s requests to send it back to them so they can return it to Tiffany? It makes sense that they’re being so vague with her about sending it back to her…Who knows. I’m in China for a year while my 360 and Wii are back home in Hawaii but I willingly parted with them and KNEW that I wouldn’t see ‘em for a very long time. Good luck, Tif!!
@rusgreim:
I’d agree with you if it wasn’t for the fact that I don’t know what she was told when she made the initial call (and if you heard this from a real person, as opposed to a recording, you’ve got to keep in mind that there are often huge differences in things people at call centers will say, and you DON’T know what she was told). The fact that she contacted Microsoft after the console had been sent back to them, requested it be delivered to her work address, and was told it could be done (either by someone working the repair line, or above them) should have stopped the problem before it started. They could have told her it wasn’t possible, or they could have taken steps to confirm her identity. Instead, they said one thing, and failed to follow through.
@The Brain: I totally agree. The fact is it was shipped back to her and normally fed ex leaves a notice of next ship date and or pick up times available at fed ex’s HQ.
IMO there has to be something missing from this story and im sure in time the full truth will come out, whether it be all MS fault or a problem on Tiffany’s end which in this case I believe may be the problem.
Let’s just get Bungie on the case! She’ll have her system back in no time, and THEN some!
Shit, it really pays to be a 360 owner with a problem.
@Buran: It certainly seems to be theft. I don’t know if the mail fraud statutes have any bearing on Fed-X, but there must be something in Fed-X’s terms saying you can’t use their service to defraud people.
At the least, M$ owes you your system back in full working order, as well as an extension of your warranty for the time they have misappropriated it, as well as compensation for the time you were unable to use it. Perhaps you can get a rental rate from Blockbuster or Rent-a-center for the period of time they have held it since the initial delivery attempt.
I don’t know where you live, but check and see if perhaps there’s a Microsoft corporate center nearby (not too far out of your way). For instance, in the Silicon Valley area Microsoft has a corporate campus WITH an employee store inside. I’d gather all my documents, drive over and walk right up to the receptionist and demand to speak to someone with some authority. Refuse to leave until you get someone wearing a fancy suit to sit down with you and discuss their theft. The resolution you seek is IMMEDIATE replacement of your system with a brand new one out of their store, AND something appropriate to compensate you for the loss of use and distress and expenses they’ve cost you by stealing your system. Be nice but firm.
Another thing you might consider is filing a police report with the police in the area where you shipped your system to. It will probably help to have that report if you need to take the bastards to court – (major hassle, I’d go for a sit-down with an executive person first) – if they’re too brain-dead to figure out Microsoft fucked-up royally here and needs to come clean, then take ‘em to small claims along with a list of your damages and the police report. Once you have an amount – send the sheriff over to the nearest Microsoft location to collect your money from their cash register).
@LarryFabulous: Then Microsoft says “we ‘lost’ your system – here’s a new one to replace it.”
Geez, glad I only have a Wii and PS2, Microsoft really seems to hate their customers.
@richcreamerybutter:
You can’t blame FedEx for not correcting the OP’s address. I am a FedEx Ground contractor/driver, BTW. It is Microsoft’s policy to request a “Direct Signature” with all XBox returns. As a FedEx driver, I must obtain a signature from someone at the delivery address. I cannot have a neighbor sign or leave the package without a signature like I can for most residential deliveries. Unfortunately, with so many people working, this means that many “Direct Sign” packages get returned to the shipper. Even the recipient cannot call have the delivery address changed; any change of address request must originate from the shipper. This “service” is what the shipper (in this case, Microsoft) wants and pays a premium for. Sucks for the poor customer who doesn’t get their package though. At FedEx we are have to do what the shipper tells us to – they’re the ones paying us to deliver the package.
As for the package being returned to Microsoft, although I can’t speak directly to the OP’s situation, I can say that in general a package is held for several days after the third delivery attempt before being returned to the shipper. I would speculate, then, that Microsoft failed to notify FedEx as to the change of address in a timely manner, causing the package to be returned.
As far as the XBox’s are concerned, I can tell you that a lot of them must have quality control problems, judging from the many, many I have delivered recently…
Your state probably has an informational web site about how to file a small-claims action against a Washington corporation. Microsoft sells Xboxes in your state, therefore you can sue them.
@BaysideWrestling: You can arrange with the court to have the sheriff seize property of deadbeat defendants who ignore judgments against them. As in, sheriff goes down to the cash register at the company store and takes money out of it to satisfy the judgment.
Personally,
I agree with the Executive e-mail barage…
Here are some likely candidates I’d include in your quest…
Bill Gates (Chairman)– [www.microsoft.com]
Steve Balmer (CEO) — [www.microsoft.com]
Robert Bach (President of Entertainment Devision) — [www.microsoft.com]
Chris Liddell (CFO) — [www.microsoft.com]
Brad Smith (Senior VP, Corporate Legal) — [www.microsoft.com]
Kevin Turner (COO) — [www.microsoft.com]
Hank Vigil (Senior VP, Consumer Strategy) — [www.microsoft.com]
I would think that you should hopefully get a response from this group. I’m not 100% on their e-mail addresses, but I think you will find them embedded in the link as Bill’s is billg@microsoft.com… and I think Brad Smith’s is bradsmith@microsoft.com.
GOOD LUCK!
Mine has been broken for 2 months and I’m still waiting for a box after 4 calls and 3 emails. They are complete idiots and I’m getting tired of their – “call us back in a week if you don’t hear from us” or “Email us in 72 hours if you don’t get a response”. What is THAT!?
Sue them for Libel and Slander too, don’t forget pain and suffering… after all Xbox withdrawl is suffering too.
Go for a half mil that ought to get their attention.
@KRUZ8ER:
“…normally fed ex leaves a notice of next ship date and or pick up times available at fed ex’s HQ.”
If your FedEx driver is doing his job, you mean. In one case I ran the tracking # I had been sent by the shipper and found they had supposedly made thier second delivery attempt without leaving a notice either time. Fortunately I found out before it was too late so I could have it held at the depot.
Just go through the proper legal channels and file suit. The minute that drops on a rep’s desk they’ll send it to you in no time. A case like this would be a pr nightmare, and Microsoft is too cheap to actually go to court for something like this. Not to mention too squeamish to deal with the bad press a court case like this would bring. You don’t have much to worry about, just file a suit and you’ll be fine.
i know people have said this before but i had my own nightmarish experience with the red ring of death.
i just recently purchased a PS3 and i will never look back. i know xbox live blah blah blah but really is it worth playing with such a poorly built piece of crap?
MS must pay people off because the 360 isn’t even in the same league with PS3 in terms of quality and execution.
I’m sorry tiffany but i wouldn’t waste your time because your 360 will doa on you again and again and again
just my two cents
Wii FTW!!
Maybe they’re assuming they will need to fix the Xbox before putting the game in there.
@newfenoix: No. Actually, I believe ’tis you that are wrong.
In the state of Washington, it is an absolute defense to a charge of theft where:
“The property or service was appropriated openly and avowedly under a claim of title made in good faith, even though the claim be untenable”
RCW 9A.56.020(2)(a).
In other words, Microsoft has to be more than wrong about Tiffany’s Xbox. They have to be knowingly depriving her of it in bad faith. There is no evidence of that.
Who do you suppose the Police should arrest for this “crime?” Steve Ballmer? Joe Schmo Customer Service Rep? Jane Schmo legal department representative? Clippy? Give me a break.
@latinogamer: Ya because at this rate she might get her 360 back about the same time the PS3 gets a XMB “in game” and Home is released.
Instead of just Microsoft’s legal department, send a letter to the registered agent for Microsoft in your state (usually found on the state’s Secretary of State website), explain the situation, and state that a small claims suit will be filed if the item is not returned or a full refund for the purchase price is given within 14 business days. If no response, then file suit and send the summons to the registered agent (as the corporation is required to maintain in order to accept legal documents). I doubt the company wants to send a lawyer to deal with the issue or have a judgment against them.
I had an issue with Dell rebates years ago and all I did was send a letter to the registered agent outlining my intended actions if they did not pay. I was overnighted a check in the full amount withing days of receipt.