As we’ve mentioned previously, Starbucks has purchased the company that makes the $11,000 Clover coffee maker. Now that acquisition isn’t sitting well with some of the Clover’s current customers.
One indie coffee shop says that it will discontinue use of both their Clover machines on Friday:
The Portland independent bought one of the first Clovers in 2006, later bought a second and also began selling them to smaller shops.
All that ends this week.
“We’ve never purchased parts or service from Starbucks in the past, and we’re not going to start now,” said Matt Lounsbury, Stumptown’s director of operations, who said the company’s two stores with Clovers would stop using them by Friday.
Take that, Starbucks!
Starbucks buys tiny Seattle maker of Clover coffee machine [Oragonian via Starbucks Gossip]
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@katylostherart: Great minds think alike …
@Machete_Bear:
Stumptown is known here in Portland as one of the ultra-Indy coffee shops. They have a reputation to uphold, esp. when people specifically go there because they hate Starbucks. This guy’s making a smart business move. He wants to keep his market segment happy.
When I was young (way back in the 70′s and 80′s) coffee was something your grandfather drank to keep awake at his desk job.
Add a little (lot) of sugar, whip cream, flavored syrups, and some atmosphere and suddenly coffee is the new hip drug of choice. It seems as if coffee has filled the void left by the decline of cigarettes. I don’t ever remember anyone at my college drinking coffee. Now I imagine you’d have a hard time finding a college or even high school student who hasn’t had coffee in the past week. These indie coffee shops owe a great debt to Starbucks.
$0.90 coffee at the local gas station.
Am I the only one that prefers that??
Sometimes you guys are so frantic to get in your “lolllll sbux haterz r stupid” that you don’t even make sense. It really doesn’t look like many of you even stopped to think about the post before tapping away your responses.
Why would an competitor shop pay money to Starbucks for parts or service or additional machines!? That’s counter-productive to their existence. They’re helping their competitor build profit. The business owners are put in a position to harm their own business by helping build a competitor, through a third party. Fairly crafty of Starbucks, but also very obvious outcome.
I think this is a pretty good idea, personally, and no, I don’t drink coffee and have no vested interest either way. The indie shops can sell off the currently owned Clovers to recoup some of their costs, avoid paying Starbucks for any parts or service, and make a statement that they reject the yoke of their corporate adversaries. Their patrons will probably applaud such an effort, because that’s why they went indie in the first place, and end up marginally increasing the indie shop’s profits for doing so. It’s win-win-win for the small business owners.
So, what I want to know is if Starbucks stores get a discount now that they own the company that makes machines they may be using? Is it $11,000 “regular” price but only $8,000 for Starbucks locations? Do they get discounts on parts and service? Will they eventually be making and selling machines ONLY for themselves, at MSRP, because indie stores have all sloughed off the product?
@Machete_Bear: self-righteous douche indeed
@AaronC: I sorta agree with you. You know that blog that Sbx has now, soliciting opinions? The northwesterners (as in NW U.S.) seem a bit outta control with their demands for Demeter-certified biodynamic soy and other coffee-aspie minutae. It is a strange and unbalanced obsession full of misplaced ardor.
@backbroken: I suspect we are approximately the same age and from the same part of the world (W Pa). I started drinking coffee in the 70′s, and I knew some other people who did too, although within a few years, Coca-Cola became the morning drink of choice for many. There were no other stimulant drinks, save tea, but that was only for my southern relatives. Are you aware that some kaffeehauser are serving up tobacco-laced drinks now? [www.laweekly.com]
Some people are missing the point, here. This little no name coffee shop that could is taking it to the man. The time is right for revolution!!!
@Machete_Bear: “
That’s pretty lame. So the store will stop making the coffee that they’ve made for over 2 years, because the owner has indie pride.
What a self-righteous douche. “
agreed. i also laugh at people who think they’re “sticking it to the man” by shopping for organics at Whole Foods.
I do not blame them. It isn’t smart business to trust one of your competitors to also be one of your critical suppliers.
Apparently, I am the only one who noticed that in the link it reads “Oragonian.” However, as the State is spelled OrEgon, the paper is also the OrEgonian.
@nwogoldberg99: Oragonian is the phonetic spelling for the rest of us.
@Claystil: They’re not a little “no-name” shop. Only two of their six locations had Clovers; the other four were still on french presses. Their clients will probably say, “right on, I hate Starbucks” (see winter_in_asia and smitty1123 above).
Check out the “News” section on their site: [stumptowncoffee.com] . (I’d link directly, but it is flash and lame.) Their name has gotten around.
@unklegwar: “Too mad so many responders on here don’t understand a simple concept: Principles.”
Yes, because hating Starbucks cures so many ills of society.
I will say one thing about Starbucks: I’m loosely affiliated with a grassroots environmental organization and Starbucks funded us with grant money when the local government couldn’t/wouldn’t.
Does Stumptown do anything to further responsible environment stewardship or any other social cause? They seem like they have a lot of money to burn.
Tata just bought Jaguar. I don’t like Tata. Should I therefore get rid of my 10-year-old Jag?
Preposterous and petty!
Every single “Indie” coffee shop in the US that has opened in the last 15 years should get down on their knees and kiss Starbucks big sweaty corporate ass.
It was Starbucks that taught ignorant Americans that the 32oz styrofoam buckets of milky dishwater they had been drinking for the last 50 years was not real coffee.
Starbucks single handedly created the industry the indy shops are “me tooing” their way into. I have been to many Indy coffee shops and with a few exceptions they have pretty crappy coffee.
Starbucks is an oaisi of peace and quiet (if there are no kids) in the city. Starbucks is the only thing that keeps me sane when stuck in airports.
Their “anybody but Starbucks indie coffeeshop” manual must say:
1. Point gun at foot.
2. Pull trigger.
3. Pump fist in air and bellow “Take THAT Starbucks!”
So, instead of replacing the coffeemaker when it breaks down, they are just going to stop using it? Are they stupid or something? Do they think that every time they pull the handle, Starbucks gets a nickel? If the Clover coffeemaker is so good ($11,000 and it makes ONLY ONE CUP OF COFFEE?!), why do that for your customers?
What are they going to do now? Go to Walmart and get a $30 Mr. Coffee (that makes 12 cups, BTW)?
So why don’t they just use them until they break down?
@ChuckECheese: Tobacco drinks? Now THAT deserves a Nobel Prize of some sort!!!
it’s an obvious conflict of interest to do any biz with starbucks, not to mention the fear of having your machine tampered with on your next service. plus if all the clover users did this, it may successfully cost starbucks a lot more money in the long run.
Opening today’s paper:
Dozens killed as cease fire ends in Iraq
Economy ground to halt in 4thQtr ’07
Thousands lose jobs as mortgage crisis deepens
.
.
.
Local coffee shop stops using $11,000 machine
OH NOES!!!!!!1!
@bbagdan: You don’t like Tatas?
@bdgbill: You’re absolutely right!
@backbroken: ++
I get coffee about 3 times a week from the Clover machine at Kaldi’s in St. Louis. The machine is amazing, but basically just a workhorse/high-speed french press. Starbucks coffee are all blends and they are overroasted, so it’s really just going to be polishing a turd. I was talking the GM at Kaldi’s about the move, and he was saying that the problem is that no one goes to Starbucks for black coffee. They go for their venti honey decaf skim milk latte or whatever.
@ClayS: PC LOAD BEAN? WTF does that mean?
@ediebeale:
Well said!
It seem what most of you indie bashers are forgetting to consider is that the Clover doesn’t necessarily make the best coffee. It, at least until this point, makes it more easily. A good traditional machine in the hands of a competent barrista can make coffee that set the standard that the Clovers had to meet. This is no different than driving a stick shift compared to an automatic. Additionally the stick shift allows for tweeking and subtle adjustments due to coffee variations should you have the skill. (sbux obviously doesn’t want to have to rely on barrista competency)
These indies, if they are good, could fall back on a good Italian machine and not miss a beat. After all it is the beans, the roasting and most importantly the pallet that really determines the quality of the brew – NOT THE MACHINE. Who knows, for that matter the indies may actually raise the bar and force SBUX to shut down for training again and buy a consulting firm to train their barristas to drive a stick.
No machine can fix a $4.00 cup of burnt coffee and no Gaggenau grill is going to fix a $35 steak cooked well done. Drink coffee brewed by real barristas, steaks cooked by chefs and wine brewed by people who spit it out.
Snobs.
Clover’s machines can, and have been, serviced by independent techs. This the case with a majority of the equipment you seen in an average cafe. Even Starbucks uses independent service techs in a lot of their markets.
Stumptown has a reputation in the industry for having decent coffee and horrible attitudes. Their product hasn’t ever been able to back up their talk. Take it from me, I’ve been in the industry for a LONG time. Cafe Lago and Intelligentsia will still use the Clover, and I’m sure they will benefit from the Starbuck’s deal. Now there will be more techs and more parts available at a lower cost. That’s the way it works.
On a side note; Starbuck’s doesn’t “burn” their coffee. It’s called a Deep Roast Profile, and was pioneered by Alfred Peet (Peet’s Coffee & Tea) to make a richer more european roast, A lot of people like this roast profile, and some don’t. It’s really a matter of preference. I think it is great with certain beans, and not so great with others. But it certainly isn’t burning anything. I’m not sure where that got started, but it’s just stupid.
The reason Starbuck’s coffee isn’t so great anymore is just a matter of freshness. Their coffee doesn’t get into the stores until usually a few weeks post-roast.
@Michael Belisle: i see. the’ve taken their system crippling ways to the press!
@Chols: sure. i also like to get my water from storm drains. yum.
@backbroken: only if they’re bodacious.
Team Portland! Hey, if I were a successful indie filmmaker and Brett Ratner bought out Panavision, I’d stop using their cameras.
Oragonian? Try Oregonian.
organonian
Wow, just when I think the Consumerist commenters can’t get any more ignorant, the idiot tribe comes right along to prove me completely wrong.
This is an excellent business decision by a well-known (in their hometown, at least) coffee place.
To give the rest of you idiots an analogy:
You are company Z, competing against company Y. You’re both supplied by a third party, S.
Now, your competetor, Y, buys your supplier. Are you going to continue using it, or are you going to find a new one ASAP?
Anybody who does not say “yes” to this is an utter idiot, and that’s the exact same thing that’s happening here. The only difference is that the names of the companies are different.
@Xkeeper: Well yes. But in this case I will say a much bigger factor here is truly “indie-pride.” I live in Portland. I go to Stumptown sometimes. The coffee is some of the best. But I don’t prefer to go there because the of the snobiness. You could choke on it it’s so thick.
So, while your point is certainly part of the decision, knowing what I know about this place, I have to agree with previous posters who have said it’s done out of douchie spite.
I also agree that its ridiculous to discontinue using $22,000 worth of equipment for such a reason, i would really like to know exactly what type of Maintenance costs are involved because if it costs them 1000$ a month per machine to change filters etc then that is a diffirent story, Fact is you already own the machines, you didnt give starbucks your $22,000 you gave Clover your $22,000 Period. You have been using these machines with success for a long time and you are now replacing them with alternatives only because Starbucks is your competitor. Starbucks is giant, i highly doubt that your costs for maintenance on the machines provide enough profit to starbucks to even make .0001% of a difference.
The wal-mart starbucks comparison is insane, starbucks treats their employees much better than wal-mart does and opening a diffirent coffee shop next door to a starbucks many times results in many more customers not wanting to deal with the line etc at Starbucks. So they arent closing down mom and pop coffee shops left and right.
Im sorry i usually am with the OP and have even been flamed on this site myself by similar if not the same commenters, but i have to say, replacing the machines is just stupid and i truly beleive “indie-pride” is a big part of it. Starbucks didnt manufacture the machines in your shop, clover did. Starbucks purchasing clover shouldnt change your opinion on a machine that was made before the merger especially a machine that you liked so much you spent $22,000 on !
Not that it matters much, but Stumptown actually has more than just two Clover machines. I recently counted four late-model Clovers at their Ace Hotel location downtown, so company-wide they’ve got at least five by my count. I guess this means that they’ll be going back to the old-school rack of Melitta cones at their Belmont St. annex (aka the Stumptown next door to the Stumptown).
Drama aside, the Stumptown is full of good people, and most importantly, a few true master roasters. I’ll happily continue to buy my beans from them, and as a rare indulgence, the occasional espresso beverage too.
Since I travel so much, I’m still curious about how many Starbucks locations around the country will eventually be equipped with a Clover machine. Sure they over-roast, but at least the coffee will be made fresh by the cup. My standards for coffee drop considerably when I leave the PNW – if they didn’t I’d probably be dead by now.
Okay, Wow, So anyone saying indie pride has nothing to do with it SHOULD READ THE ACTUAL ARTICLE “Clover is another casualty, they said, of local indies poured into the corporate white-and-green cup.”
Another quote from another owner of a shop using the machines
For that reason, Layman said, she’s sticking with her brewer.
“Just because Starbucks owns it doesn’t mean that the concept isn’t great,” Layman said. “Besides that, you have to have put great coffee in it to get a good product.”
Indie coffee shops need to learn to make better coffee and give better customer service, and stop being whiny little bitches.
@Machete_Bear: Agreed, and I’m quitting my luxurious SBUX job tomorrow.
Clovers are nice, albeit overengineered and overpriced, machines. There’s nothing wrong with them. And Stumptown is a top-notch coffee roaster and chain of cafés.
Is that enough to justify the Portland Clover Party, where Clovers are unceremoniously dumped overboard to protest any potential for financial contributions to the world’s greatest quality coffee black hole?
Starbucks will kill ideas and technologies that support excellence and quality every time, it’s true. Look what they did to the Torrefazione Italia chain, for example. If this was the Sopranos, Torrefazione Italia is now resting at the bottom of the Lower New York Bay, in the trunk of a Ford Taurus beneath the Verazzano Narrows Bridge with 17 bullet holes in it.
The Clover will likely not be far behind. There’s no reason to accelerate what the Starbucks machine is already so finely tuned to do on its own.
Clovers are not a plug in appliance. They are (were) an ever-evolving system that required a crap-ton of mantainence icluding software/firmware upgrades. It’s unlikely that strbx will provide the same level of support and service as the previous owners of CeCo.
Beyond that, I have always been anti-clover. Automation does not a perfect cuppa make. How can the same industry that redicules super-auto espresso machines cream their pants over something so. . . sterile. Give me French press or Turkish pour any day.