Every day for the past eight months, Dell has called Kat to demand payment for a bill she doesn’t owe. Kat unfortunately inherited the phone number of a Dell debtor when she started a new job, something Dell would rather overlook—along with the Fair Debt Collection Practices Act. Kat has tried calling, escalating, and having the debtor tell Dell to leave her alone. Dell continually assures her that the problem has been fixed. And then they call again.
She recently sent us the Executive Email Carpet Bomb she lobbed towards Dell’s headquarters:
To: tips@consumerist.com
Cc: michael_dell@dell.com, donald_carty@dell.com, ronald_garriques@dell.com, michael_cannon@dell.com, mark_jarvis@dell.com, lawrence_tu@dell.com, susan_sheskey@dell.com, andrew_esparza@dell.com, paul_bell@dell.com, stephen_felice@dell.com, david_marmonti@dell.com, brad_anderson@dell.com, jeffrey_clarke@dell.com, martin_garvin@dell.com, alex_gruzen@dell.com, joan_hooper@dell.com, william_gray@dell.comGood Morning,
This is my last resort. I am writing today to share with you a problem that has become so excessive over the last eight months that I no longer know what to do with it. I have given up the idea of ever having a Dell hassle-free life so I am just trying to live mine by minimizing their interruptions in my day to day life. Here is my story:I am not a Dell customer. I DO NOT OWN ANY DELL PRODUCTS (AND I NEVER WILL). I got a new job last July and for my job I inherited a very important phone number that all of my clients have used for the past seven years. I work for an extremely small non-profit (i.e. I am the only paid employee) and I work with youth and their families. I have 30 families who move around often and the only way we keep in contact is through this stable phone number so changing my number was not and option.
In August 2007 I started receiving calls from the Dell collection center in India. The calls were not for me or my job, they were for the man who previously had my job and phone number. He linked his personal Dell account to his then work phone number. The first ten times Dell called I gave them the previous employee’s new phone number and asked them to remove my number from that account as it was no longer current… But the calls kept coming….
Steps I have taken to avoid hearing from Dell:
1) I notified the person they were trying to reach. I had him call and change his contact information. He did that and Dell assured him the problem was solved and that they would not call me again. But the calls kept coming…
2) I had 6 lengthy conversations with supervisors at the Dell Call Center in India. Sometimes they would give me a badge number, recording ID, their name and one time in a thick Indian accent I was told I was speaking with a “Michelle Woodward” for the record. Dell promised the problem was solved and that they would not call me again. But the calls kept coming…
3) I called the customer service line on Dell’s website. Since I am not a Dell customer and I don’t even know what item they want me to pay for that I do not own, it was a long and frustrating call. In the end Dell assured me the problem was solved and that they would not call me again. But the calls kept coming…
Now, 8 months later, Dell calls my work phone up to three times daily. I finally bought a new phone (but I can’t change the number because I need it to do my job) just so I could set it to ring silently when Dell calls. I try to ignore the calls the best I can, but recently the calls have started coming from local DC numbers as well as the Indian 800 number. I am sometimes fooled into answering the local calls only to find that I am again on the phone with a company where I am not a customer.
Now I understand that people must lie and give fake phone numbers to dodge paying for their stuff. I am sympathetic to a point about how hard it must be to streamline a system. But I have done everything in my power to point Dell in the right direction, but they refuse to take my number out of the system. Dell you don’t want me. Please leave me alone.
Finally someone suggested that I write to consumerist. I saw the Dell executive emails on your site, so I will be CCing this email to them as well. All of them. We will see if they respond. Maybe I will start calling them three times a day.
Sincerely,
Dell’s used up call girl
Kat
We see that Kat cc’d Lawrence Tu, Dell’s General Counsel, who should be able to recognize that Dell is flagrantly violating the Fair Debt Collection Practices Act. 15 U.S.C. 1692c(b) states:
Except as provided in section 1692b of this title, without the prior consent of the consumer given directly to the debt collector, or the express permission of a court of competent jurisdiction, or as reasonably necessary to effectuate a postjudgment judicial remedy, a debt collector may not communicate, in connection with the collection of any debt, with any person other than the consumer, his attorney, a consumer reporting agency if otherwise permitted by law, the creditor, the attorney of the creditor, or the attorney of the debt collector.
We’re not sure if Kat has standing to sue Dell for harassment under the Act, but maybe a helpful consumer lawyer can appear in the comments and offer some advice.
(Photo: publicprivate)
Still doesn’t work, just look up agency law in wikipedia…
@GizmoBub:
I’m familiar with Agency law, but your claim is a bit over broad. Since you don’t know the particulars of the case, you can’t make that conclusion. I imagine the fact that the “Agent” is based in a foreign country might affect the outcome. Further, the state Dell is based/incorporated in might have statutes or caselaw pertaining to vicarious liability. It’s not an absolute concept, and as a (presumably) law student, you should know that a citation to the Restatement of Agency is secondary authority and isn’t binding. I’m not saying that you’re wrong, because I haven’t done the research, but your claim is too broad either way.
@NeoteriX: The OP has already told them that they are calling the wrong number.
The answer is to sue for harassment. Repeatedly calling someone who has told you to stop is harassment.
@tankitore: She has. They are actively attempting to continue to harass her by using fake caller ID to get around her call screening. And if this EECB fails, the law definitely needs to be involved. There’s real hurt for them if they fail to stop at that point.
Forget the email. Start using snail mail via certified mail to transmit legal docs.
Have the Dell people respond with WRITTEN information concerning the account. Then respond to that information in WRITING via certified mail with this party died, moved or whatever.
Then when ever somebody calls you can reference your previous mailings and request the party to cease all future contact.
Get the address where they want you to send the payment.
Then write a letter stating that you will never, ever pay it & just type out the name & address of the actual ower of the debt. You already have his address. Tell them to take you to court. Tell them to contact you by mail only.
Leave no fingerprints or DNA on the envelope or letter [wear gloves,don't lick the envelope, use a tweezers to put a self-stick stamp on the envelope].
The collection agency will think it’s from the real person they’re trying to contact.
Mail it.
I had a similar problem & the collection agency never called my phone again.
@Greasy Thumb Guzik:
Yes, committing fraud is a great idea.
Next time they call, have someone else answer the phone and tell the collection agency that this a homicide detective and that this call is interfering with the investigation of a very bloody multiple murder scene at this location and that all further calls to this number will be forwarded to investigators at the police department.
This phone line is maintained by your non-profit organization who I presume has some legal authority with whom they engage in other matters of business. Since this line is a business line the most logical course of action is to speak with your non-profit about resolving this issue. You are PAID by them, not a volunteer, and therefore this is your job.
There’s no reason you should be approaching this from the personal setback standpoint.
@Riddar: Pre-Do-Not-Call days, I used to have a similar message on my answering machine, that I’d gladly accept telemarketing calls at the cost of $250 per call. If the person did not agree to these terms, they were more than welcome to hang up. In Florida, automated telemarketing calls are illegal and no human’s going to leave a message after hearing that (if they’re listening).
To make a long story short, I got ~$800 by calling the companies who left messages back and I’d offer to settle with them for less than $250 (~$100 avg). This was far less than what they would be nailed for by using an automated call by the state.
Definitely more of a valid case than what I’m suggesting to the original poster, but there’s a good chance the certified letter will reach Dell’s legal department and a real human with power to change things.
@edrebber: … again, they have caught on that they’re being screened and are (apparently) spoofing caller ID so that she’ll answer. I would hope that a good lawyer would use this as evidence of willful harassment.
@Riddar:
Actually, End User License Agreements for software have a tendency to not hold up in court. This is primarily due to the fact that you are not able to read the terms of the license agreement until after the purchase, and therefore are not given the opportunity to decline the agreement until after you’ve already paid for it.
End User License Agreements are really more of a roadblock for people willing to accept it as one and not challenge it if necessary.
@mgy: I understand that the writer is frustrated. And that’s completely Dell’s fault. But a better organized letter would only help her cause.
There is something is journalism called “burying the lede.” It’s when you take too long to get the point of the story. It takes awhile to even understand what the writer is upset about. The best complaint letters get right to the point. Example:
“I am receiving three calls per day from Dell for someone who does not reside at my address and for a bill that is not mine.”
Right away, the reader knows the problem, knows it sucks and doesn’t even have to read the rest of the letter to know who to contact to resolve your problem.
Just a suggestion…
That’s one great thing about having a brother who’s a lawyer. Once some collection agency kept calling us for a bill that my wife did not owe. One call to little brother and problem solved. We never heard from them again.
@snowpuff: This isn’t journalism, some people actully have degrees with a purpose. Way to be a dick.
My guess is that as soon as the designated Dell CS lackey reads:
“I am not a Dell customer. I DO NOT OWN ANY DELL PRODUCTS (AND I NEVER WILL).”
…this well intentioned letter is going right into the trash.
If you are going to ECB, do it the right way.
@Riddar: True!! Just because you say that they owe you money in a letter does not mean that they have to pay you. I think that may even be illegal(ish). They have the right to receive and open mail without it making them obligated to pay. Unless that letter involves something that they ordered or already agreed to.
To those who suggest that the OP get another number. They can’t do it. She stated that lots of her clients move a lot and that her company needs a stable number. If they move a lot, you can’t mail them the new number and be certain that it will get to them. And you can’t be sure that you can give them all the new number when they call, because you don’t know that they will all call before you cancel the number.
And for the few people that are saying to get a caller id..um, read the letter. if you do read it and use some common sense you will notice that they do have caller id. OP states something like “and now they are calling from a local D.C. number that could be a client”. Don’t know how else the OP would know that.
@Pylon83:
It’s not much of a fraud, you’re telling them the correct info on how to contact the correct person that owes the money.
Since the person that owes the money has not paid & has no intention of ever paying, obviously he would take it to court.
No prosecutor would charge anyone on that because it’s a sure loser with a jury, a complete waste of time & looks bad to his or her boss.
@Greasy Thumb Guzik:
That doesn’t make it any less fraudulent. You’re intentionally trying to make Dell think you are the other person. Whether or not you would ever get prosecuted is irrelevant. It’s still fraud.
@snowpuff: Never underestimate the power of irritating somebody way, way up on the chain of command. Sometimes that works when nothing else does.
A friend of mine from overseas got a job in a rural area of the U.S.; he is a cardiac surgeon who performs some delicate procedures, so for that hospital, getting him on board was a big benefit for their patients. In theory. The government would not issue him the visa that would allow him to work — even though he had been legitimately hired, was filling a job that few Americans could fill (or would fill, given that he was in the boonies), etc. The hospital couldn’t put him to work until all this stuff cleared. They told him his paperwork had been filed and was waiting approval — then that the paperwork was lost — then that he had never filed it — then that it had been filed but was in error — etc., etc. Never a straight answer.
Finally, he lost it. He looked up the senior senator for that state in Congress, called the guy’s office, explained things to staffers but REFUSED to hang up until he’d spoken to the senator himself. After about an hour, they actually put him through. My friend explained that the senator’s constitutents weren’t receiving medical treatment they needed because of this. The senator heard him out and said he’d get on it.
TWENTY MINUTES LATER, he gets a call saying his visa is approved. All those problems with the paperwork, the supposedly insurmountable ones — poof. Gone.
You should irritate the powerful only as a last resort, but as a last resort, it can work.
@spamtasticus:
Not that simple, really.
They aren’t telemarketing.
They’re trying to collect debt.
@backbroken: So you want the OP to *lie*? I wouldn’t give harassers my money either!
Only really stupid CS representatives would round-file a customer complaint letter because it was too long or insufficiently precise for bloggers’ tastes. Even angry people who don’t write perfect letters have money, and have friends and family with money, and can choose to spend that money on your competitors.
re Dell specificially, I’d call them and ask to speak to whoever in Legal is their agent for service.
@Riddar: a bit OT, but that case is not that far reaching as far as EULAs for us end users. A EULA has not really been tested in a way that generally applies to us, AFAIK.
I would get her employer involved with this. They are using resources that her employer is paying for for their own purposes, and I’d bet that that non-profit has counsel that would be happy to make this stop, and possibly secure a large donation from Dell.
Years ago in a previous job I had an employee who started receiving dunning calls on her desk phone at work. It was a farly small office and my desk was close enough that I could hear her talking to them. The third time in one day I heard her talking to them I walked over to her desk and demanded the phone, then told the person on the other end that she was on the clock, and they called her on my phone, and I was not going to tolerate them using my resources to conduct their business. I told them that the next time they called they would be transferred to my extension and that I would be contacting our legal department if they continued to interfere with my business. No more calls.
@backbroken: She’s writing them because she keeps getting phone calls about a debt she doesn’t owe. Doesn’t it make sense to point out that she has never done business with Dell (which makes it impossible for her to owe them money)?
@NeoteriX:
Not a good idea, she’s the wrong person and saying she’s the real debtor will only make the situation worse. Collection agencies have all sorts of record searching tools and this is nothing but a bunch of lazy-ass collectors who don’t want to do their job right. Example: doing a reverse phone number search on lexis/nexis to find out who the number is registered to. It’s not always a guarantee but still worth a search and only takes a few seconds.
@cac67: Yes, people don’t know that a verbal cease and desist when dealing with a work number is the only thing you need to stop the calls. I should know, I work in collections and this is currently a hot button issue around work because alot of reps are too stupid and arrogant to do their jobs right. Or too inept…sometimes they’ll “zero” out the work number and when the number “drops” to the “history” field they don’t bother to update the number to read “WRK NMBR VDNC” or something similar and when the skip trace people see that “previous” number they just put it right back into the work number field and instead of verifying it (like they’re supposed to) they mark it as a “found” number.
Is this a cell number? Since you said you got a phone that allows you to silence their number, I’m wondering if it is (I don’t know of a landline phone that has such a feature, but maybe they’re out there). If it is a cell number, Dell is probably violating federal law every time they call you. It is illegal to use an auto-dialer or a recorded message to call a cell phone (47 U.S.C. 227(b)(1)). I’m pretty sure that if they are calling you three times a day, they are using an auto-dialer. If it’s a cell phone, inform them the next time they call that they’re calling a cell phone, that they’re violating federal law, and that the next time they call you will be reporting them to the United States Attorney General’s office for federal prosecution. I’ve had to do this a few times, and it always gets them to stop calling.
@LittleBit12:
Correct, if it’s a cell number then they have to stop calling immediately because you are incurring charges to get that call. This is a good reason to NOT put a cell number on a credit card application. Although no body in their right mind should even consider giving their cell phone number to any third party.
@BeFrugalNotCheap: Keep in mind that for many people their cell phone is their only phone.
I know this is coming in a bit late (like a week late), but this should fix it:
Dell Legal only does business via mail and fax, which is good because they keep EVERYTHING on record. Contact them via certified mail, request a receipt, and the calls should stop fairly quickly. Dell Legal does not, in my experience, let things like this sit around festering.
Dell Legal Department
Dell, Inc.
1 Dell Way
Round Rock, TX 78682-7000
We are Kat’s family, and after this episode, abashedly admit we own Dell products. Since the folks at Dell seem to be speaking to her constantly, we wondered if they could do us the favor of telling her how proud we are of her? Better yet, let us be the ones to tell her, and Dell, stop hassling her!
I routinely get various 800 numbers calling me from something i must have filled out online, calling me on my cell phone and I came up with a good idea. If you see a 800 or 900 number answer the phone saying “911 What is your emergency, and tell them that this is the 911 call center for whatever town and that they will be reported to the local and state police and not to call again.
I don’t know about the original poster, but my cell phone has a great feature that allows me to set a custom ring-tone for anyone in my directory. Just add Dell’s automated calling phone number to your directory and set the ring-tone to silent. Presto – no more 5am wake-ups!