UPDATE: Tenant's Surprise Nudist Colony Will Now Be Limited To Pool, Tenant Still Can't Break Lease

Last week, we wrote about Sam’s surprising discovery that his apartment complex was to be converted into a “European style” nudieland. The apartment complex apparently hadn’t notified its tenants, and Sam learned about it from a newspaper. Last weekend, Sam wrote in with an update.

Sam says he received the following letter from the property manager:

Dear Resident(s),
As some of you have recently seen or heard from media outlets the property will be converting to a condominium community which includes a clothing optional pool. Contrary to some media reports the community will not be a fully clothing optional community but rather will be limited to one pool area only . . . .
This change does not affect your lease in any way . . . .
We have prepared the following questions in order to have a clear understanding of how our residents feel about the planned change. We appreciate your understanding and help in this matter.
1. Would you be opposed to a clothing optional pool?
2. Would you move if the property proceeded with the clothing optional pool immediately?
3. Would you be interested in purchasing your condo with the addition of a clothing optional pool?
. . .
We will have a drawing from all surveys received by June 30, 2008 (Monday) and one recipient shall receive $100 off of July rent.

The clothing-optional pool only story is contrary to some media reports, mainly because we reported on the original version of Eden’s website, which has since changed. For example, this was the text we pasted directly from the site last week:

You’re going to be very comfortable with our dress code. Our residents are welcome to shed more than their inhibitions as they enter the gates of Eden. Because when our residents come home after a busy day in the working world, they want to completely unburden themselves, shed the trappings of the outside world… and be totally free.

Since then, someone has clumsily inserted “poolside” as a qualifier before the good stuff:

You’re going to be very comfortable with our poolside dress code. Our residents are welcome to shed more than their inhibitions as they enter the gates of Eden. Because when our residents come home after a busy day in the working world, they want to completely unburden themselves, shed the trappings of the outside world… and be totally free to be themselves in their poolside sanctuary.

Just to be totally clear, though, Eden has added the skeeziest FAQ ever, with questions like “Will people be allowed to get naked as soon as they enter the gate?” and “Will public sex be allowed?” Missing from the FAQ: “Will current residents who signed leases to live in a community without a sexy naked pool be allowed to break their leases now that you’re adding a sexy naked pool?”

Previously: So Apparently They Decided To Turn Our Apartment Complex Into A Nudist Colony

Eden Tampa

(Photo: Getty)


Edit Your Comment

  1. “Will public sex be allowed?”

    Silly Americans, always equating nudity with sex. What if nudity were associated with something else related? Like defecation, for instance.

    “Are floaters permitted, or only sinkers? I eat a very fatty diet.”
    “I’m allergic to oleander. Will there be other wiping material available?”

  2. RetailGuy83 says:

    No. ONLY at the super private and concealed adults-only “South Beach” pool area.

    What’s the problem guys, come on, it’s SUPER PRIVATE!

  3. sickofthis says:

    I would imagine that any tenant who takes this complex to court and asks to be let out of their lease will win.

  4. @Ash78: LOL!!!

    As for living in a nudist colony — thanks but no thanks.

  5. Myrddraal says:

    Sounds like they are backpedaling as quickly as they can

  6. khiltd says:

    I’m sure even a marginally competent lawyer could find a way to argue this constitutes a decrease in services and get that lease re-negotiated.

  7. snowburnt says:

    is a polygraph required to gain access to super private?

  8. se7a7n7 says:

    This sounds awful for the current residents. You know that most nudist are not people that you would want to see naked. Unless you’re into old fat guys.

  9. sir_pantsalot says:

    @RetailGuy83: Exactly. Words don’t have any meaning anymore. The other day I went to the Super Big Jumbo Chinese Buffet and it was not super, big or jumbo. It was a buffet so I have to give them that.

  10. MayorBee says:

    From the linked FAQ:

    Is the South Beach pool going to be an “Adults Only” pool?
    Yes! Only those 18 or older will be allowed in this area. There is a family pool on property out of view from this pool for people of all ages to enjoy.

    So what’s the problem? There’s a clothing optional pool that’s completely secluded from a clothing mandatory pool, “In fact, we will not even allow thongs at that pool.” People can’t just get naked all over the place.

    Oh, and I’m wondering if the condos would take an unexpected turn with the surveys. “Seems that no one likes the idea of a ‘clothing optional’ pool, so we’re making both the pools ‘clothing-verboten’.”

  11. friendlynerd says:

    I don’t see how anyone wins here. Certainly not the current tenants who are uncomfortable with their newly-nudist surroundings. Probably not the nudists themselves, either, since they’ll be constantly sneered at and resented by the remaining renters who can’t break their leases.

    Everyone loses.

  12. MayorBee says:

    @sir_pantsalot: Well, originally the buffet was only open to super big jumbo chinese people. You should be glad they let you in. Unless, of course, you are a super big jumbo chinese person. Then you should be upset that they’re letting non super big jumbo chinese people in.

  13. sir_pantsalot says:

    “No. ONLY at the super private and concealed adults-only “South Beach” pool area.”

    Are they repeating them selves or are you required to have some sort of super private parts to get into the concealed pool.

  14. bohemian says:

    The previous story made it sound like they were going to be allowed out of their lease. That still puts an undue burden on the tenants since moving is a total pain and new deposits are usually not cheap.

    But now they are NOT letting them out of the lease either. This is a material change to the lease.

  15. Veeber says:


    I think the big issue is that it was originally advertised as the entire complex was going “clothing optional” The family pool is a new addition and it looks like the other pool is only available to the condo owners and not the renters.

    The FAQ has an interesting piece which makes it look like the original “mistake” was a publicity stunt.

    If that is the only changes, then what is all of the hype in the media about?
    Because newspapers and TV stations love stories that contain the word “naked” or “nudity”. It get’s people’s attention, increases ratings and sells more papers, so they make a big deal about it. This is a huge and exciting amenity. Since the story broke, we’ve been on 100 newspapers, radio and television news programs and countless radio and television interviews, including ABC, CBS, NBC FOX, CNN just to make a few. All the news will die down soon.

  16. MayorBee says:

    @Veeber: Yeah, I agree they backpedaled a lot on this. They originally put out there that it would be a clothing optional community, as Alex noted above.

  17. JayDeEm says:

    @sir_pantsalot: Perhaps a special ‘key’ will be required… I wonder what that might look like.

  18. RetailGuy83 says:

    @sir_pantsalot: But was it even Chinese? I can’t find a single Chinese buffet in my area that has a decent eggroll. Let alone one that does NOT have mashed potatoes, corn dogs, french fries, fried chicken, and buttered rolls.

  19. pdxguy says:

    If they don’t want to live there, it’s probably the best thing at this point to hire an attorney. I think there’s probably a good case here for breaking the contract and leaving as fundamental state of the property has been materially changed. You couldn’t do it if they changed the paint color scheme, or restricted parking etc, but nudity, and how here in the US it is regulated and enforced, I think would be material enough. But IANAL and it’s just MHO.

  20. Orv says:

    Am I the only one who thinks that living in this complex could be a route to building a highly profitable webcam site? I mean, if people are naked in a public area they have no expectation of privacy…

  21. RetailGuy83 says:

    We will be adding several privacy and security measures including additional fencing, relocating the entrance, a security guard at the gate and another security guard that will be roaming the property and the adult pool.

    Holy crap, that is creepy

  22. MayorBee says:

    @JayDeEm: Thank you for making me think of Goldmember and his skin flakes.

  23. Alex Chasick says:

    I am sort of almost but not quite a lawyer, and yeah, I’d be shocked if he couldn’t break the lease. The developer doesn’t know when they’re implementing things though, so that probably puts a hold on people planning to move. The good thing for the company to do would be to let tenants who don’t want to live there be able to break their leases now, instead of making them litigate whenever the clothes come off.

  24. Pylon83 says:

    My guess is they would have a hard time getting out of the contract. The new pool, so long as it really is “restricted” as they claim, doesn’t really change anything in their lease. Depending on their city, they may have a supplemental “Landlord-Tenant Ordinance” that conveys more rights on the renter, but under contract law, I don’t think they can get out. What they actually contracted for has not changed. Further, the “amenities” portion of the lease usually leaves open the possibility for the landlord to eliminate those amenities with due notice. If they can produce some advertising material from when they moved in that is absolutely contrary to having a restricted, clothing optional pool, they might have a chance. Contracts are not easy to get out of.

  25. Wormfather is Wormfather says:

    I’d RAISE the rent. The tenants are getting an extra benefit.

    Either way though, naked people dont bother me in the least. Unless of course they’re old, ugly or male, then eh, go somewhere else please.


  26. thelushie says:


    I know, how SUPER COOL!

    So why even change the pool in the first place?
    This came about as a direct result of an increasing demand for a “family pool” separated from an adults pool for those unaccustomed to the sometimes raucous sounds and rough housing noise and splashes that all normal, playful and spirited kids create.

    Ok, just because some of us don’t like kids doesn’t mean that we would swim in a pool where clothing is required. The arguments made after this statement make more sense. But equating no children to wanting naked pool is crazy.

  27. Geekybiker says:

    I read the original site. For those with reading comprehension it already sounded more like a clothing optional pool than a complete complex thing.

  28. thelushie says:

    @MayorBee: I had thought of that too. What is the problem? I think it lies in that most people are not going to stick to that. In a couple of months after opening the clothing optional pool, naked people are going to be wandering around all over the place. Then the management is going to decide that it can’t be controlled (or they don’t want to control it), and then other’s rights to not see fat old people naked will be violated.

  29. DrGirlfriend says:

    I think the Consumerist Guy deserves better than to serve as buttflaps for lumpy naked people.

    It seems to me that they are going to have to go to a lot of trouble to implement this. Super secret hideout pool with roaming security guards, extra fences, new entrance, fighting people who want to get the hell out of their lease….all just to have a single nudist pool? Why the obsession with nudism on premises?

  30. MaliBoo Radley says:

    I don’t understand the problem. Are people that hung up about nudity? If it bugs you, keep your eyes above wang/hooter level. If there happen to be some nice looing people, take a gander. Otherwise, get on with your day.

    This country is so loony sometimes.

  31. JDAC says:

    I can’t help but think Lionel Hutz was involved here.

    No! Nudity allowed.

  32. aidenn says:

    They’re trying to not make a big deal of the nudity thing in theory, but how come fully 1/3rd of the photos on the website feature nude folks by the pool?

    I don’t really care what people want to do with that, but the guy should be able to break his contract once they’ve announced to have the nude pool option.

  33. LouSir says:

    As soon as a kid walks by the pool and sees the old naked guy the cops are going to get called and the naked guy will be arrested and feces will hit the fan.

  34. PDX909 says:

    This post is useless without more pictures.

  35. sean77 says:

    When I lived in an apartment in college, there was a group of people who would go skinny dipping in the apartment pool/spa nearly every night. No one cared.. probably because it was like 1 am.

  36. scooby76 says:

    Some people are into old fat guys…just an FYI

  37. thelushie says:

    @PDX909: See Fleshbot.

    @radleyas: Most people do not have a hang up about nudity and if they do that is fine. If someone wants to be nude, rock on! But others also have a right not to be exposed to it if they do not wish to be. Really, if they want to be clothing optional, the entire complex should be and the let those who do not wish to live in such an environment (and that wish is perfectly normal) move. Most people are self centered and there is no way in hell this will be kept to the super private pool area. As LouSir said, the feces will hit the fan.

  38. MayorBee says:

    @thelushie: I thought the security guards were there not only to keep the under-18s out of the adult area pool, but also to limit the swimsuit eschewers to the adult pool.

  39. Nighthawke says:

    Special keying, special privacy fencing, PLUS two rent-a-cops. That pretty much takes 1/3 – 1/2 of his potential profits right there and throws it away.

    He’d better backpedal faster, for someone is going to get punched in the mouth for this stunt.

  40. MaliBoo Radley says:


    Of all the things in the world, seeing a naked person is not going hurt a kid.

    I realise that it’s a personal choice. That what kids see is up to parents. But I’m a little soapbox-ish about this one. Kids see loads of acts a violence in a day on TV, no one bats and eye. But a kids sees one nake person and everyone flips their wig.

    But, in terms of an apartment complex, at the very least, this dude should be allowed to move. Anyone who isn’t down with nudity should be able to choose to live in a place where nudity isn’t an option.

    But I still stand by the idea that nudity is not harmful to anyone. If it makes a person uncomfortable, it’s says something about the person viewing, not the naked person.

  41. lalaland13 says:

    I have a relative who works as a security guard…in Tampa. Oh boy. Better tell him to watch out for vague job posts.

  42. lalaland13 says:

    Also, just let the guy break his lease. Or are they afraid there will be a mass exodus? Even if they don’t, when people’s leases up, I’m sure many will move. Yes, some people have hangups about the human body, yeah. But this is still a pretty darn big change.

    I’d hope I’d only had one or two months left rather than seven or eight. If the latter, wouldn’t blame someone for looking into legal options.

  43. dragonvpm says:

    Personally, I wouldn’t mind the clothing optional pool per se (regardless of who took advantage of it), but I’d be fairly worried about the random folks “who ruined it for everyone else” that would almost invariably cause problems.

    Once there’s a pool on site with “OMG! teh nekkid people!” I’d expect to deal with random teens, and older sleazy people trying to get a peek or get lucky etc… and just wandering around being a nuisance because of the pool.

    Clothing optional areas aren’t bad in and of themselves, but I think that in most US communities, you’d find a disruptively large number of people who don’t get the non-sexual appeal and they’re probably think that it’s a strip-club without the cover charge so I certainly wouldn’t want to live there.

    IANAL, but I do a fair bit of work in real estate and I’m pretty sure you could get out of a lease because of that clothing optional pool. If you were willing to take it to court, I suspect most judges would fairly quickly find that the clothing optional pool and it’s related issues would qualify as an adverse material change.

  44. wgrune says:

    From the creepy FAQ:

    Will there be food or bar service available at the South Beach Pool?
    At this time, we are not planning on selling any food or drinks, however everyone is welcome to use both the summer kitchen tiki bar with professional stainless steel BBQ grill for poolside cook-outs and the kitchen and bar in the clubhouse.

    Nothing like hot hamburger grease splashin on your tender bits!

  45. Orv says:

    @lalaland13: What I find interesting is that this is a condo conversion. Unless there’s some huge untapped nudist market that I’m unaware of, this seems like a bad idea for the value of those condos. They’re really limiting the appeal of the property to a small subset of people.

    @dragonvpm: I suspect anyone who thinks it’s a “strip club with no cover charge” is going to be deeply disappointed when they see what average people really look like with no clothes on.

  46. dragonvpm says:

    @Orv: I’m sure you’re right, that doesn’t mean that you want those people wandering around the apartment complex being disappointed and causing problems.

    I don’t think any of the people who genuinely want to use the clothing options facilities are a problem, but there are secondary groups of people who are likely to be attracted and those are the ones that I suspect could cause problem (hence the folks “who ruined it for everyone else” comment).

  47. thelushie says:

    @radleyas: I don’t think seeing nudity is at all harmful. I just don’t think sagging boobs swishing back and forth should be shoved into someone’s face (figuratively speaking, of course. Well, God I hope). This will be an amazingly hard thing to control. If they want to go nude, they should go completely nude. That way, everyone knows what to expect.

    @MayorBee: I got the impression that is what they are supposed to do. But, if 20 or more people decide they have a right to wander around as they wish, what will one or two security guards be able to do to stop it?

  48. jamesmusik says:

    I don’t think it’s up to the complex to decide if it affects the lease. That’s a pretty fundamental change in contract and, like any other fundamental change to the lease, has to be agreed to by both parties. The tenant should be able to give 30 day notice and leave without penalty, just as if they had raised his rent.

  49. MayorBee says:

    @thelushie: Wouldn’t that be a violation of the homeowner’s association rules or something? Yeah, 2 security guards aren’t going to be able to do anything against a mass exodus of leathery, sagging flesh, but once they exit the designated area (willfully), wouldn’t that be public nudity?

  50. thelushie says:

    @MayorBee: Yeah but it would still depend on if they want to deal with it or not. I have seen many violations of leases in the form of loud music, sexual activity in public areas where management just rolled their eyes and told the offended party to be “more tolerant”. It is a high school sort of attitude but, seriously, alot of people put into management have no clue what they are doing.

  51. thelushie says:

    And they could claim some sort of dumbass “majority rules” thing.

  52. Craig says:

    Bonus points to Consumerist for using the word “skeeziest” in a sentence.

  53. MayorBee says:

    @thelushie: I see. And this management has already shown that they’re not the most tenant friendly one out there.

  54. JanetCarol says:

    Doesn’t changing parts of the community break terms in his lease anyway?
    f- them (the community not the nudist)

  55. evslin says:

    @RetailGuy83: Let alone one that does NOT have mashed potatoes, corn dogs, french fries, fried chicken, and buttered rolls.

    I think they do that to get the parents with children who are picky/messy eaters to come in. Easier to get a kid to eat chicken nuggets than it is to get them to eat fried rice.

  56. DH405 says:

    Is this not removing one of the pools from common use? Thats an adverse situation.. or something. I ANAL. (I like to add the space.)

  57. slim150 says:

    MY SISTER lives there :D

  58. iamlesliegirl says:

    Nudity in Florida. Makes me think of that Golden Girls: Ladies, of a certain age, accidentally ending up naked when everyone else was dressed! Zaney!

  59. krom says:

    The OP doesn’t know how lucky he has it. Srsly. Most apartment complexes are more likely not to open their pool at all due to cheap laziness.

  60. RetailGuy83 says:

    @evslin: I know, just just want an eggroll… :(

  61. this is great

  62. scooterist says:

    @se7a7n7: On behalf of old fat guys everywhere I would like to register a super jumbo sized protest. We like to get nekkid too, you know.

  63. ninjatoddler says:

    I’d have loved to live there back in my college days.

  64. ninjatoddler says:

    Except for the old people. That would be a major downer.

  65. Tzepish says:

    @Geekybiker: RTFA. They changed the website.

  66. ampersand says:

    Though that one specific sentence did not contain “poolside” before, the rest of the website always made it pretty clear that nudity was limited to an adults only pool area. Heaven forbid you have to read more than one paragraph before reporting a story.

  67. ThunderRoad says:

    Meh. Get over it. It’s just skin.

  68. spryte says:

    @ThunderRoad: Oh come on. Don’t act like someone who doesn’t want to be around random naked strangers is uptight or something.

    I love how so many people seem to think if you’re not totally keen on the idea of being around nudity then you’re a total prude. Yeah, because there’s no other options on that spectrum, are there?

  69. hermia_j says:

    My aunt and uncle are “naturists”. They’re currently looking for a “naturist retirement complex”. This place sounded remarkably like what they’ve been looking at over the last few months in the first post, believe it or not.

    That’s one hell of a change to try to sneak by people without even asking how the current tenants felt about it. Perhaps if they’d notified current tenants first they wouldn’t have assumed the worst and this might not be such an issue. By hiding it and having it come out in the paper people assumed the worst.

  70. SOhp101 says:

    The issue isn’t whether the tenant is being a prude because he doesn’t want to see nude people–the landlord is causing significant changes to the property without properly notifying the tenants.

    This may suck, but it sounds like the tenant will just have to break the lease and then demand his security deposit back–and take them to small claims court if necessary. The tenant still has to be very careful to make sure he still leaves the apt. in great condition and follow all necessary protocol before vacating so that the judge will side with him.

  71. empkae says:

    It takes about 15 minutes to become totally adjusted to nudism. Everyone has a jiggle somewhere. So f’ng what?

  72. thelushie says:

    @spryte: Now i see why you have the star by your name. That is a great point. I happen to love to be naked. In my own home. But I don’t want random skeevy guys gawking at my naughty bits. And I am no where near old and sagging.

  73. Parting says:

    Imagine what great conversation topic tenants now have. ”You know, we have nudist swimming pool, wanna come? There are no sex allowed :)

  74. So, does the security guard have to make sure everybody in the nude pool is nude?

    I would want to be paid extra for that. A lot extra.

  75. humphrmi says:

    They may want to think that it has no effect on existing leases.

    I bet a judge would think differently.

  76. FilthyHarry says:

    Seems like an unhappy tenant with a webcam and pc could make their feelings known quite easily.

  77. RvLeshrac says:


    This is NOT in ANY WAY a “material change” to the lease. They are not requiring that tenants sign a form stating that they are perfectly OK with the pool, and they are not requiring a new deposit for the new pool area.

    This is tantamount to the addition of a security gate – or the addition of a pool, tennis court, or other free amenity.

    It cannot be (competently) argued that they are getting “less” service, and it cannot be (again, competently) argued that they are somehow getting less value for their dollar – but most leasing laws don’t guarantee that anyway.

  78. RvLeshrac says:


    But then, they aren’t asking that you be OK nude in a crows, they’re asking that you be OK with someone else being nude – if you have a problem with *SOMEONE ELSE* being nude, you’re being a prude.

    I have a problem being nude in front of others, but I really don’t care if other people want to walk around naked. It does not affect me.

  79. thelushie says:

    @RvLeshrac: I have no problem with others being nude. Like I said, if someone wants to be nude, rock on. BUT I don’t want to be exposed to it against my will. Just like they have a right to be nude, I have a right not to have to look at them. I like looking at the nude male form if it is nice looking. I don’t want to be exposed to every male form just because they now can be nude.

    I have already addressed why this sort of situation would not work out. Really, if they want to be “clothing optional”, the entire complex should be that way and then those who do not wish to live that way should be able to break their lease and move.

  80. claudia says:

    To me, being nude is being the same person but in a sensually charged ambience that is very pleasurable. Indeed I prefer being with my family and other sociable mixed gender naturists in clubs and resorts for all of our recreation or relaxation. My personal best was three weeks vacation at a resort in France, with everything except sandals put away for the entire duration. The strangeness of shirt and shorts to depart there was almost as strange as becoming a naturist many years before. As regards sex-life; being nude together promotes an appreciation of the pleasure that can be given one to another.

  81. claudia says:

    It is pretty pathetic to know this. This is supposed to be a free country, and in a free country one cannot be prosecuted for the choices of another. Sure, many people who have something better to do than think are offended by nudity. Many others are not. Clearly, being offended is a personal choice, and people have a right to make that choice, but no one should be required to cater to that choice as a matter of law. Nudity is not obscene and should not be offensive.If you find nudity offensive for its own sake, ask yourself WHY.Naturism is the great human equalizer. It’s about accepting yourself and others for who you are and not what you look like, own, or wear. It’s about de-stressing, relaxing, getting back to innocence. When I sit on my back deck in the morning or evening, contemplating my surroundings, I really feel close to God. I feel my batteries being recharged. The world is full of surprises and the secret naturist, who tends to explore country side and other areas not usually explored by ‘normal’ people and who also present an attractive target by being naked, tend to attract all manner of interesting creatures, many of which are intend on biting, stinging, eating and generally making life a misery for any unfortunate who passes by. Naturist looks like you and I and come from all walks of life. You will find it to be a relaxing lifestyle that is free of the daily stress we all experience. Naturist groups like naturistmingle.com are looking for people who are open minded and want to enjoy the company of others of a like mind.

  82. baraboo says:

    hot naked people = free porn
    ugly or fat naked people = free comedy

    What seems to be the issue here?

  83. spryte says:

    @RvLeshrac: I have no problem with someone else being nude away from me. But you know, if I got on the bus and it was full of naked people…no thanks, I’ll walk.

    I have no problem with nudity in certain circumstances. I have no problem with someone wanting to live as a nudist. And please try to remember that just because someone doesn’t feel the same way you do about something doesn’t make them automatically wrong. This is a subjective, not an objective, issue.

    Thinking about this more today, I wonder what the policy on clothed people hanging out at the clothing-optional pool would be. If I was a nudist and was at that pool, and there were a couple dudes in clothes sitting around staring at people, that would be offensive. Most nudists do not live that way for exhibitionism or sexual gratification, so I can imagine it would be irritating if someone was ogling them as though they were up on a stripper pole. It would seem to me, if they want everyone to be comfortable, the pool should be ONLY for nudists to prevent the lookie-loos.

  84. RvLeshrac says:


    I can’t think of any nudists that would really mind others sitting around looking at them.

    That’s part of the philosophy. You have to be very comfortable with yourself in order to live as a naturist/nudist. They’re not doing it *personally* for exhibitionism or sexual gratification, but (at least the majority) they’re not going to be bothered by people who are, so long as it doesn’t directly interfere with them.

    As far as nudity goes, it isn’t a subjective issue excepting insofar as it doesn’t continue past one’s person. Nudity is subjective if you’re the one choosing whether or not you wish to walk around nude, but objectivity must set in where others are considered.

    Keep in mind that the nude human form is natural, and the use of clothing is unnatural. Clothing was originally intended as utility – a way to shelter one’s body from the elements. It wasn’t intended to “cover up” and hide the body. If you’re uncomfortable around people who are nude, that’s a personal psychological problem. (And that’s not a personal, “you’re crazy if you think…” statement, that’s just a statement regarding human psychology.)