BonnieMoira

I wonder how much EMF they have in their home and their workplace? Presumably they spend more time there than in their car? How much radiation are they getting from their cell phone irradiating their reproductive organs (when mounted on the hip or pocket) and brain (when mounted on their ear)?

This sounds like people wanting free money from corporations and trial lawyers wanting money from deep-pocketed corporations.

S-the-K

dirk1965

Meanwhile:
"Neysa Linzer, 58, says that since she bought her Honda Civic Hybrid her blood pressure has increased and that she has fallen asleep at the wheel 3 times."

Sounds like she has sleep apnea. This has nothing to do with EMF.

Ciao!

docwhat

Nonsense Jay, I think this article was informative to the consumer. Hybrids masquerade as some environmentally friendly goodie-2-shoes car when they are not. Manufacturers and the oil companies are in bed with each other, there's a reason it's hybrid -- it still takes gasoline, and we'll be dependent on gasoline as an energy source for the next 50 years until someone gives an ACTUAL alternative that makes sense.

Lucky225

A)You originally said, "There are Magnetic fields and there are Electric fields but there are no electromagnetic fields." and that's 100% wrong guy. Electromagnetic fields DO exist. [en.wikipedia.org]
There's no edit button, so everyone can still see what you said.

B)We now agree is wrong, after I corrected you.

C) You implied DC cannot generate an electromagnetic field, and several people in the thread corrected you. See: Step-down, step-up transformers. [en.wikipedia.org] You said, "Step down transformers lower voltage not frequency." Yes, they do lower voltage. For example, by inductive transfer of a DC generated electromagnetic field. I never said they lower frequency. No one did. Again, no edit button, so everyone can see that's true.

D) Ever heard of a power inverter? You could not draw DC power from your cigarette lighter and turn it into AC power for your laptop if DC was incapable of generating and radiating an electromagnetic field. If it "generates" an electromagnetic field, as you've now admitted, then it "radiates" electromagnetism. This, by definition, is electromagnetic radiation. [en.wikipedia.org] The field doesn't magically stop at the edge of the wire, it "radiates". Even if you have to pulse it on and off for it for be effective, DC still generates an electromagnetic field in a transformer.

It's cool that your job title says you're an Engineer, but I think you're a bit confused on a few basic principals of electronics.

I didn't reply to be hostile, I just don't want people to be misinformed. Mad_Science seemed to think that you were right, and that my understanding of electronics was, "from 1865". Obviously I didn't want this to remain uncorrected. There needs to be some reliable info out there. Correcting such blatant misinformation is what any knowledgeable good Samaritan would do..

Take Care.

Radoman

Wow, how nice of him to give away something he considered to be a such a health risk to someone else.

DanPVD

Jay Slatkin

rfjason

kc2idf

[www.trifieldmeter.com]

Ragman

-- VE3HOP, amateur radio hobbyist, and lover of RF

wackyvorlon

ArdelisCeryneian

wackyvorlon

Consumerist, you are a consumer protection and advocacy blog. Nothing under that umbrella should allow you to spout incomplete and unscientific data as actual science. I'm very disappointed in your incomplete commentary on such claims regarding electromagnetic fields and personal health.

And for not making one stink about a quote that an A.C. Meter is enough to detect these? That's hogwash. Not only is an A.C. Meter the incorrect device to measure EM, it's not even that accurate.

Apparently Jay Slatkin isn't familiar with any of the recent nonsense surrounding EM:
- wifi causing sickness in the UK? Proved to be nonsense. Even children who were interviewed by the BBC said it was idiotic.
- cell phones predisposing people to cancer: inconclusive. The technology has not existed long enough in a consistent state to provide proper controls for study. Moreover, people seem to forget how much Gamma Radiation (oh my god, GAMMA) comes from their TV sets.

And therein is your failure when you posted this article: like Jeff the Riffer said: stupidity of the masses.

Welcome to failure. I hope you can learn from this one.

wesrubix

When microwave ovens came out in the 1970's for general consumer use, there was a lot of people who were afraid of getting cancer. Older people especially who didn't trust them. Because the general populace has no FUCKING CLUE what ionizing radiation is.

Fuck you, Consumerist, for continuing to pander to the stupidity of the masses.

Jeff the Riffer

Hardly the high voltages of 33,000 to 230,000 volts used in transmission lines and substations that were the subject of the radiation studies carried out by the National Institutes of Health and the National Cancer Institute!

Given that domestic power cables are generally 110v to 250v the world over, the logic in this story is tenous at least.

Ron3KL

DaoKaioshin

A)Wrong. Electromagnetic fields do indeed exist , despite your disbelief. As the name implies, the field can be viewed as the combination of an electric field and a magnetic field. [en.wikipedia.org]

B)Wrong. EMF's formal definition? It's actually the acronym for Electromotive Force (Voltage), not Electromagnetic force. [en.wikipedia.org]

C)Wrong. DC power in a line generates a field or step-down transformers wouldn't work. [www.google.com]

D) Again, wrong. DC generates a field as well.

@Mad_Science: "Electormagnetism" isn't really the correct spelling either. Make sure you're correct before correcting someone. You've hardly shown yourself to have more knowledge about electricity by mistakenly correcting a spelling error. Splitting the spelling into Electro Magnetic Force is simply a way of directing peoples attention to what the acronym "EMF" stands for in the context of this article.

Ya gotta be careful what you write on Consumerist because there is no Edit button. This stuff stays.

Radoman

But they don't, so I'll have to die from excessive orgasm instead of a bass overdose.

Oh well. I'll still die happy.

aaron8301

So does anyone know what the EMF is on a maglev train??? Shouldn't the Japanese be dropping dead from EMF exposure?

Ragman

Guess it was a slow news day.

geoffhazel

That said, the field probably not going to be large enough to hurt anything unless the motor is sitting right next to the person.

BBF_BBF

@WalterBellhaven: And those are the same people who spend hundreds on magnetic bracelets to realign their energies.

Aaron Martin-Colby

WalterBellhaven

It's worse than that. Consider this study:

"Elevated airborne exposures of teenagers to manganese, chromium, and iron from steel dust and New York City's subway system."
Environ Sci Technol. 2004 Feb 1;38(3):732-7.

On the other hand... the EM fields might remove the metal dust from the air. So it's an environmental dead heat!

TexasP

I have a degree in Physics. Direct current electromagnetic fields will not hurt you.

almk

framitz

DeafLEGO

girly

@mariospants: Move to NJ. We take that danger and pass it on to teenagers. God bless NJ!

Git Em SteveDave seeks Lego build buddy. How about you?

Mad_Science

But we do know of a true, powerful carcinogen: gasoline. And yet we're exposed to it every time we pump the tank full.

You'll likely die from eating organic lettuce long before you die of being exposed to electromagnetic radiation from your hybrid.

mariospants

Try this little experiment: scatter metallic paper clips all around on the floor of the subway car. You'll immediately be able to tell where the wheels (and motors) are, because the paper clips above them will actually rise (one end) off the floor, in alignment with the large magnetic fields created by the motors as the train accelerates.

It takes large amounts of energy to get an 80,000-pound subway car moving. I've never measured the strength of these subway-car magnetic fields, but I bet they're in the honkin' range.

I add my voice to those that decry silly articles like this.

Hawkins

Ragman

Tzepish

@boones farmer: there are hign voltage lines and there are HIGH voltage lines - there may be orders of magnitude difference there. What you see close to your neighborhood maybe 33kV (or 33,000V), some other lines - especially them russian ones - are 1200kV (or 1,200,000 V). I've lived in Poland and we had a few 550KV lines going "from" Russia at the time (from was only in theory as we all knew which way the current went).

Anyway: [en.wikipedia.org]

losiek

[www.toledoblade.com]

girly

Lo-Pan

But waiiiit a minute; Europeans _are_ going extinct:

[digg.com]

Panic! Panic!

TexasP

ouphie

ArdelisCeryneian

jimv2000

It was so bad that they had to invent something called 'locking gas caps' to help curb gas theft. You could only buy gas on odd/even days determined by the ending of your license plate number, and there were mile long lines at the pumps.

Here's a wiki link:
[en.wikipedia.org]

elanne

Personally, I'm not ready to pass judgment either way. I don't use a cellphone extensively, I don't eat a lot of eggs, and I don't knowingly expose myself to extra radiation if I can help it. I mean, Electrical Engineers aren't even sure if circuits energize positive to negative or negative to positive, so who knows what's really going on and how much danger this poses? The knowledge just isn't there.

Electro magnetism is a form of radiation. Radiation tends to be generally bad for humans, that's why we're so lucky to be shielded from most of space's radiation by our atmosphere. (and magnetic field) Irradiating humans causes cellular level mutation, and not in that cool "I have superpowers!" kind of way.

When electricity passes through wire, that wire emanates an electro magnetic field. Wouldn't it be a good idea to shield the wire better? (grounded shielding) Or possibly move the wires away from the passenger compartment? You know, just in case.

Seems only prudent.

Radoman

Git Em SteveDave seeks Lego build buddy. How about you?

This looks like a job for the Mythbusters! and BTW, "And Teve said, "Dat, what about Dob?". I loved that sketch. Whenever I catch it, I lose it when they bring Boba Fett's name into it, Lamar Alexander 2.

Git Em SteveDave seeks Lego build buddy. How about you?

Imaginary_Friend

As the saying goes, "The plural of anecdote is not evidence."

--Amy Alkon (who drives a 2004 Honda Insight that gets 60ish mpg hwy, 45ish city).

Amy Alkon

uberbucket

PSN: kingpsyz

You are ABUSING your station.

You have a responsibility to epsitomological integrity. FAIL!

Bad consumerist, Shame.

betatron

kim says:
> I also think that EMFs shouldn't be mocked.

studies have shown the coupling between very powerful EM fields and childhood cancers to be poorly if at all coupled. there work that suggest a causal relationship outside the realm of em field emissions

and we're talking much higher energy levels (ie over 100kilovolts) see:

[en.wikipedia.org]

and no those citations are by in large not from the power industry.

em fields are subject to the inverse square law so when the distance between you and the emitter doubles your exposure is cut by half..

hybrid and electric cards are fairly low voltage (by transmission standards from 48volt up to about 300volts. they are direct current although some implementations use 3 phase ac induction motors... Low frequency noise is produced by the alternator.

Alonso Perez says
>I don't trust exposure to EMF is well understood.
>I barely use my cell phone for precisely this reason.

Dangers from microwave radiation particularly high energy emitters (which are ionzing) should not be examined in the same breath with em fields from power sources. They have different properties. in the same sense ionizing and non-ionizing microwave sources should not be lumped together.

We've got over 100 years experience with em fields at normal household voltages from around 100 to 400 volts. We got 50 years experience safely managing workplace and consumer exposure to ionizing microwave radiation. We have 25 years managing the microwave rf emissions of cellular and ism band devices.

Are cellphone safe? maybe not, but compared to what? the actual power output has dropped by about 3 orders of magnitude since the early 80s, the frequency has gone up.

Are cars dangerous? Absolutely, there are about 40,000 traffic deaths a year in the US in a population of 300 million that means your share of it is 1 in 7500 per year. So what's scarier? a vague but uncertain threat that's low probablity? or one that we're quite comfortable with but face every day.

Am I concerned about exposure to the em field from from my civic hybrid? No...

joelja

The fact that this "hazard" shows up suddenly after we look at Hybrid cars or, fraudulently, when we examine power lines, should be probative. Let me reiterate the FRAUD of the berkely researcher who "found" a connection between power lines emissions and cancer.
It was a LIE.

Fear, innumeracy and antiscientific superstitious claptrap, thy name is EMF hazard.

Following the links in the article, searching on "EMF" the first one points to :
(NIH story link)
DATA TYING CANCER TO ELECTRIC POWER FOUND TO BE FALSE
By WILLIAM J. BROAD
Federal investigation finds that Robert P Liburdy, a scientist at Lawrence Berkeley Laboratory in Berkeley, Calif, faked what came to be considered crucial evidence of a tie between cancer and electromagnetic fields created by electric power lines; officials say his misrepresentations helped him win $3.3 million in grants from National Institutes of Health, Energy Department and Defense Department; he has resigned from laboratory and agreed to withdraw his research findings[...]

National Cancer Institute, searching for "magnetic"
No hits on "EMF"

Note the "some correlation article is 16 years earlier than the power line article"

Big Study Sees No Evidence Power Lines Cause Leukemia
By GINA KOLATA
Study by National Cancer Institute and childhood leukemia experts finds no evidence that exposure to magnetic fields produced by electric power lines causes childhood leukemia; report, published in New England Journal of Medicine, follows earlier National Academy of Sciences study that found no evidence that power lines cause cancer, but that called for further research on childhood leukemia
July 3, 1997
MORE ON NATIONAL CANCER INSTITUTE AND: LEUKEMIA, CHILDREN AND YOUTH, CANCER, RESEARCH, ELECTRIC LIGHT AND POWER, MAGNETISM AND MAGNETS, NATIONAL ACADEMY OF SCIENCES, NEW ENGLAND JOURNAL OF MEDICINE
SCIENCE WATCH; Electricity and Cancer
Preliminary findings from a study of men exposed to electromagnetic fields suggest that they have slightly higher rates of breast cancer. No theory adequately explains exactly why electromagnetic fields may increase the risk of cancer. Some scientists suggest the fields promote tumors or cause cells to proliferate.
September 17, 1991
MORE ON NATIONAL CANCER INSTITUTE AND: ELECTROMAGNETIC WAVES, MEN, BREAST, CANCER

betatron

"Hybrid Risks". Give me a fucking break.

uberbucket

I or where they using EMP's? hmmmm

Lo-Pan

ironchef

So in the article it looks like the author says there are studies regarding the link....so he is just telling us there are studies. Not that the studies are finding anything.

Lo-Pan

This post is unbelievable.

MayorBee

Juggernaut

[video.yahoo.com]

Juggernaut

This is the third one:

(1) No such thing as Grade D taco bell meat guys- I thought everyone but 15-year-old kids who SWEAR they've seen Taco Bell employees carrying out boxes labeled "Grade D" knew this already.

(2) You can't Taser yourself unconscious, no matter what stupid forum you copy/pasted the "story" from (and I use the word liberally).

AND

(3) As others have stated, there is no evidence (scientific or otherwise) that says that EMF are harmful, as has been stated by numerous others in this post.

Either we've regressed to April-Fools Consumerist, the editors are friggin asleep at the wheel, or they've hired a new 15-year old who was driven to work at Taco Bell this morning by his mom in her hybrid while tasering himself in the leg.

Stop. Posting. Bullshit. Guys.

tevetorbes

So, according to them, even if we play the "DC is the same as AC" game, I'm looking at exposure that's less than what I'm exposed to sitting in front of my computer...

And of course to add to the "what's good for the environment is bad for you" scare-mongering, CFL bulbs create much more EMF than incandescent bulbs...Consumerist might want to create a post on that...

DanGross

NewPerfection

Car Salesman: "Oh you want the hybrid rather than the SUV? Well yeah sure you'll get a few extra miles per gallon, but in the end, is the CANCER worth it?"

*shakes head*

Sasha_Pie

audreyhorne

mjuevo

schestnut

why with all that smog, water pollution, lead paint and gang violence not to mention drug use and hippie propaganda!!!!!! why you must be a walking corpse of cancer.

:P

Skankingmike

Goety

stevegoz

Peace out!

stevegoz

linus

I'm going to get a homeopathic medical degree by sitting near a medical school. I'll pick up the knowledge vibrations that way.

Dillenger69

I think it is funny that so many people are saying EMF's have no biological effect when a significant amount of scientific evidence is suggesting that at the minimum more research needs to be done because of results suggesting some cellular response. Anyway from a quick search at Pubmed I found the following conclusions:

"CONCLUSION: Continuous low-intensity electromagnetic field comparable to the one that generates around metal devices because of the generation of corrosion currents inhibits osteoblasts differentiation pattern and might contribute at least in part to a decrease in periprosthetic bone formation occurring in vivo."

"In conclusion, non-invasive EMF induction of hsp70 preserved myocardial function and has the potential to improve tolerance to ischemic injury."

"CONCLUSION: EMFs produced by incubators influence newborns' HRV, showing an influence on their autonomous nervous system. More research is needed to assess possible long-term consequences, since premature newborns may be exposed to these high EMFs for months."

jwinston2

And let's not suggest that we should just listen to the government and automakers on the risks (or benefits) of exposure to EMFs. The government can't prevent cancer by grace of judgement, even if scientifically backed. Third-party, double-blind studies with strict metrics and no (possibly) biased conclusions please. I'll judge for myself.

(PS. Now I'm ashamed to be American, because judgment is the proper American spelling. It just looks silly and I won't have it. ;) )

chrisjames

Sockatume

Heyref

MrEvil

1. HYBRIPHOBIA: REMEMBER WHEN POWER LINES CAUSED CANCER?
EMF stopped causing cancer in 1997, but no one bothered to tell Jim Motavalli, who wrote an Automobile column in the Sunday New York Times about the risks of EMF in hybrids. According to Motavalli the National Cancer Institute studied the cancer risks associated with electromagnetic fields. And so it did - but it couldn't find any. You might think Motavalli would at least check the Archives of the New York Times. On July 3, 1997, the day the massive four-year NCI study of power lines and cancer appeared in the New England Journal of Medicine, Gina Kolata reported in the Times that the study was unambiguous and found no health effects associated with electromagnetic fields. An editorial in the same issue of the Journal put it in perspective: "Hundreds of millions of dollars have gone into studies that never had much promise of finding a way to prevent the tragedy of cancer in children. It is time to stop wasting our research resources." It all began in 1979 when Nancy Wertheimer, an unemployed epidemiologist, and her friend Ed Leeper, drove around Denver looking for common environmental factors in the homes of childhood victims of leukemia. It practically jumped out at them - every home had electricity. Their study was so flawed it would have been laughed off but for Paul Brodeur, a scientifically-ignorant writer for The New Yorker. He wrote a series of terrifying articles about power lines and cancer that were collected in a 1989 book, Currents of Death.

[bobpark.org]

hill_policy_wonk

TechnoElf

That was the first thing I thought, too.

+ Watch video

Employees Must Wash Hands

Necoras

courtarro

Junk.

IrisMR

Plenty of studies have been done.
People that claim they can "feel" EMF and RF? Put them in a room designed to test their claims, and guess what happens?

This is amazingly bullshit, and I'm appalled at the consumerist for spreading the myth.

I love everyone talking about powerlines: yeah, because unshielded, high-power lines aren't running EVERYWHERE underneath you, in your workplaces and homes and cities.

zsouthboy

CityGuySailing

That being said...what would a laptop have as far as milligaus reading?

I remember going over this questionnaire about EMF's...if i slept near a clock radio, how long i was in front of the computer, etc.

No sarcasm here...if anyone can throw some facts that would be appreciated!

CarMatchPro

r4__

Juggernaut

By way of comparison, People in Western Europe spend most of their lives in close proximity to 240 V AC. Lower magnitude, but potentially more EMF.

As Europeans are not going extinct, there needs to be way more study of this before it is time to panic.

AlexJP

I'm kinda surprised to see that it is STILL be repeated.

And as for that lady who apparently fell asleep 3 times in her Prius, I need to remind folks that anecdotes != data.

dmuth

Dead Wrestlers Society

thirdbase

laserjobs

boones farmer

Parramore64

Or the fact that Seeing Eye dogs now have to be trained w/hybrid cars so they don't lead their handlers into traffic.

Git Em SteveDave seeks Lego build buddy. How about you?

Git Em SteveDave seeks Lego build buddy. How about you?

Leiterfluid

*sarcasm's always on

zentex

I think it's already too late. As soon as this hits the public, there's going to be at LEAST one sue-happy hippy who will go straight for the automakers' throat.

blackmage439

zentex

Listen drinking tap water increases your risk of cancer too.

So does living, did you know living increases your risk of cancer. Yep the longer you live the more likely you'll get cancer. I think the government needs to step in and stop living.

*sarcasm off

Skankingmike

Gann

Jaysyn