SalenaKarpo

Chroma wants a really long name because all the cool kids are doing it.

1) Specify that you don't ship overseas
2) Require immediate PayPal payment from a registered account for Buy It Now
3) Only accept PayPal payments

You'll get a few emails from scammers, but they won't win the auction generally.

alixor

mizike

After careful culling through ads of lappies coming from China, Russia, Burma, I was fortunate to find one new and one carefully used for me and hubby! The Toshiba arrived safely and in good shape, only needing a fresh battery to work nicely. The Sager took a while, as the seller was in the USN and had to work our some logistics, but that is a nice work lappie for hubby, as he does video work.

I know I'm really lucky to have not been scammed, but I took care that every seller I bid to was verifiable through other sources!

Once we get computers around here, we used to hand them down, but now everyone we know has a decent computer, even the kids! Ah, well.

bcgrote

SanwariMover

I haven't hearn from Omar for several months.

Do you think I did something wrong?

Armis Brooks

e.varden

Judge Judy done a good one on this ebay unrepentant scammer. $5K fine plus an invitation to the IRS to come a-callin'.

I hope this c*nt gets some serious "away time" from her three kids, like, in the Greybar Hotel.

e.varden

corvi_yallis

haha and ummm yeah if the unedited version of the story went on for 2 weeks, then how many days did the edited version go on for??? 13 days??

lovelygirl

HarrietPirate

sventurata

MAC addresses? You think those are harder to spoof than IP addresses? Bwahaha.

farker

DJ Barrak

Why couldn't he have restricted it to US-based, PayPal verified eBay users?

And about the password thing, the OP should look into the random number key dongle you can get for your PayPal/eBay accounts, lets you generate a unique password every time.

farker

EdanLagicide

Also, if you don't have "all day" to read such a post then please don't waste your valuable time posting a response.

madog

crazbiskit

math0ne

mariospants

Or do a chargeback on your credit card, if it's too late.

(Never pay your ''bills'' by PayPal)

Meltdown

Shipping internationally means going through customs. Most buyer are too stupid to understand it. There are taxes to pay, paperwork to fill. And then the buyer refuses your package ''oh! it costs too much in taxes/duties!''.

So it has nothing to do with ''discrimination'' only with business.

Most of the time, it's not profitable to ship to UK. It's simply not worth my time and effort. Also, there are more risks due to the fact that UK paypal is never confirmed. So no seller protection there.

Why would I sell to UK, if I have someone in USA or Canada offer me the SAME price? And the effort into shipping / selling will be much smaller on my side.

Meltdown

If they are completely dead, you can put them on eBay for parts or repair. When laptops are broken, you won't get any scammers (they like products in mint condition ).

Meltdown

es ay eL from en jae

I was going to say "demand they send the heads" but then they'd just send any old heads because the only people other than corrupt government officials who could afford to pay them off would be the scammers.

Sigh...ultimately, you are right.

TechnoDestructo

They can still screw you through Paypal.

TechnoDestructo

I have never sold a laptop though. Maybe I should as I think I have 3 broken ones in the closet. Most likely, I will give them to a charity that can repair them or use them for parts. The tax benefit will be worth far more than the time involved in a sale and the fact I probably would not get a great deal on it.

Javert

DWMILLER

I want to open this comment by saying that I became aware of this post because the company's founder, Pierre Omidyar, forwarded it to a number of people as a well reasoned criticism of eBay.com. I say that to make the point that what happened here and to others is very top of mind.

I have no doubt that everything this user experienced is accurate. I know because I have actually experienced a nearly identical problem as a seller on eBay. My auction about 6 months ago of my laptop was "won" by a Nigerian criminal. I ultimately had to relist and restrict who could bid on my auction. I was successful in my second attempt to sell, but the experience was eye opening for me as an employee.

Currently, our best advice is to limit your bidders. There are tools to do this, including the blunt force of restricting your items to US bidders only. But we know that what we have in place is not enough. We are applying the resources necessary to find the right solutions, and we know we have to do better. And we will, we're just not there yet.

UsherLieberman

Speaking of which, as the story as described, complaining to eBay is an art form. There is a wrong way to do it, which is to be wordy and long winded; and there is a right way, which is to be short and to the point. Simply find the right contact form, fill it out with "Buyer is a Nigerian scammer, has also bid on and won 20 other auctions, has also sent me spoofed emails. Please cancel transaction and credit me FVF and listing fees for this auction". That's it. Don't go into a long chronological description of everything that went down - eBay drones don't have the time to process all that info. As long as they can verify that this transaction doesn't pass the basic smell test, they will go ahead and cancel it and credit fees back. They will also be ecstatic that you were short and to the point with your complaint.

MaxRC

So their customer service is probably just as bad, but at least I just throw something on there for a price and leave it, no auction required. They also issue me the money through direct deposit, rather than waiting for payment from a customer.

Meiran

HadleyFlop

...and of course, the seller understands that I am not stupid. So to reassure me, they offer to deposit the amount of the winning bid into my PayPal account. Once they receive the Western Union they will send the chair, and once I receive the chair I will transfer back their PayPal money.

I still strongly suspected that this was a scam, but I was intrigued as to how the scam would work. Would they send me a phony "depost confirmation" email with a fake PayPal template? I wouldn't fall for that. But maybe their scam was more sophisticated..?

Curious, I went to Western Union's site and put in the seller's info, just to see what would happen. Sure enough, Western Union immediately came back saying it would not let me send money to this person because they had been flagged for fraudulent behavior.

Obviously, I bailed out on the auction. The seller still insisted he was legit, and a victim of PayPal and Western Union's ineptitude. But I maintained that no one could blame me for bailing on this one, and he never wrote me any negative feedback for it.

clydicus86

As for eBay: I don't sell big ticket items there; sometimes I'll find old board games at thrifts and re-sell them on eBay. Never had a problem even with the few that go over $100. I don't buy much there lately; the shipping costs have made the items more expensive than buying from the store.

Starfury

My secret? Research prices that the item has sold at, research what people are selling it at now, and set a Buy It Now price. If you have 100% perfect feedback like me, you can demand closer to the high end of prices. Don't do auctions. Accept PayPal only, and require immediate payment, that way the only way someone can buy your shit is by paying for it on the spot.

I've never had something not sell, and I've sold plenty of mid-to-high-end electronics. I did encounter the Nigerian scammer thing when I tried to sell a PS2 like 4 years ago, but instead of bitching to The Consumerist, I just fixed the damn problem by changing how I sell.

Schmeg Peg

barty

@castlecraver: That used to not be the case until they started requiring people to have a Premier PayPal account to link to eBay. Before that time, it was quite common to see listings with "no CC/Debit Card PP accepted" because quite a few of us got tired of paying 3% of EVERY transaction we initiated. I always try to sell most things on specific forums first before dumping them on eBay just to try to get whatever I can for something. Everywhere else EXCEPT eBay I can simply offer a discount if someone doesn't want to pay via PayPal. That's what sucks about their rather one sided policy.

I sell on eBay as an absolute last resort now. I put things on Craigslist and associated forums elsewhere and if something doesn't sell after a month or so, then I *might* put it on eBay. Unless I can net an extra 15-20% on eBay over what I'd get elsewhere, its not worth selling there anymore.

barty

Isn't half.com owned by ebay?

gomakemeasandwich

Good idea, but people can get around IP addresses, so any ban would have to be more comprehensive, like MAC addresses as well, but you're on to something. There's a huge market for someone out there.

gomakemeasandwich

MurdockOffspring

reverendramona

jswilson64

I get my payments as Amazon gift certificates, so I can buy random things for myself (usually also through the marketplace) and it's pretty helpful. I do think they take a big cut out of your money, but I can't recall how much. But getting it out of my house is more important to me.

Meiran

skilled1

telepheedi

I have successfully bought & sold 2 laptops on eBay. All you have to do is REFUSE to post abroad, make this very clear in your description. i also make it very clear that I WILL NOT be scammed & that I have heard them all so don't even bother.

leperisland

I think everyone who's used ebay has a Nigerian story.

gomakemeasandwich

For someone so secure in their idea that they understand ebay, your suggestion that feedback rating has any real importance is somewhat funny.

gomakemeasandwich

You really think it would matter?

gomakemeasandwich

gnimsh

Actually in my daily life I don't encounter too many criminals. If I log on to ebay, I could interact with thousands. A little more than a "fair share" if you ask me.

And God, I can't even get away from the smug Europeans on The Consumerist?

gomakemeasandwich

So true. The only problem with craigslist is that your market is smaller.

gomakemeasandwich

I think if ebay were to hire Nigerian death squads to hunt down the scammers, the death squads would just take the money and send ebay a fake Paypal email in terrible English telling them that they took care of it.

gomakemeasandwich

dabitch

twstinkers

Sure eBay, like life in general, has its share of criminals. The solution is to get smart. There's plenty of good advice already mentioned that doesn't require international trade embargoes.

eBay itself is happy to take its cut from any and all traffic while taking minimal responsibility. As already mentioned, the help facility is ridiculous. I recently uncovered systematic shill bidding by a Power seller and reported it more than half a dozen times. I received the usual placatory replies and promises of action while I was assured that eBay hides bidders identities, blah, blah.

The Power Seller is still operating, still paying eBay a tidy sum in listing fees and still using the same accounts to bid up its own items. I just don't bother trying to buy their items any more.

But there are genuine buyers and sellers aplenty. Don't throw out the baby with the bathwater - just learn to be careful.

tayga

gnimsh

BelladonnaMarlborough

Once I had a specific item that I noted could only be shipped to the 48 contingent US states and that I could not ship the item to overseas American territories. A guy from Puerto Rico ended up winning, and then argued with me over the duration of several emails that Puerto Rico IS part of the contingent 48 states (uh, heh heh) and that it's not an overseas American territory. I finally gave him the USPS calculated postage to ship the item to him (it was a vintage computer, extremely heavy) and when he saw the final figure he backed off.

thalia

It's now completely impossible to buy a legit DVD on eBay.

I was hunting for 3-4 DVDs for Xmas gifts, Korean cartoon and several popular Miyazaki anime. After reviewing dozens of eBay stores, I found "the one": 20k+ power seller with the least amount of complaints over past half a year, carefully studying reasons of each complaint.

And I felt for it.

I received 3 pirate DVDs with blurry prints on top of weird cardboard boxes with gold embossed stamps, full of missppeellss. 1 DVD wasn't matching what I ordered. Filing a complaint resulted in a... another free pirate DVD. At this point

I went to eBay scam report, filed complaints on each individual transaction in paypal.

In about 3 weeks the case was closed because... I had to PROVE THAT DVDs ARE PIRATE BY GOING TO SOME AGENCY TO PROVE IT.

I ended up with getting negative feedback plus I was called a liar.
About DVDs that I bought for Xmas...

2lik

IMarcus

I have occasionally had questions about shipping to Nigeria (and other suspicious locations) but I have never had someone buy one of my items and then try to scam me.

I suggest doing some research and finding out what your item is actually worth. Then list it as a fixed-price item with immediate payment required via PayPal. Limiting shipping to USA-addresses only and requiring a Confirmed Address are also possible approaches. You can mention in the auction that other payment methods are possible on a case-by-case basis and to contact you prior to purchasing if the buyer would like to pay by money order or cash/local pickup.

I don't think eBay is broken. eBay has changed over the years and sellers need to adapt to the new reality.

fgl

ffmariners

How to avoid being scammed as a buyer:

CHECK FEEDBACK! That's what it's there for! A good deal of companies use ebay as a storefront, and have quite nice CS. If a person has less than 95% positive feedback, don't bother with them.

Don't buy (or sell) out of country. Customs is a hassle for all involved, and there is always a random chance your parcel could get arbitrarily held up.

As a seller:
I highly recommend downloading ebay's Turbo Lister app, as its a good deal faster and slicker than trying to use the web form (which has a nasty habit of crashing IE). Also, it calculates fees for you, and lets you set important options right up front, such as:
Restrict bidders who are registered in countries to which i dont ship
Block buyers with -1 or less feedback
Block buyers with 2 or more unpaid item strikes

Worth a shot. Anybody pooh-pooing on ebay after one bad experience needs to educate themselves, and try again. The system isn't exactly intuitve, but it's great once you know what you're doing.

Karunamon

FLConsumer

It boils down to laziness - when an organization is small, it has to fight to keep customers happy. When it's monolithic and almost has a stranglehold on the market (cough cough monopoly) the amount of attention it pays to each individual customer dwindles.

badxmaru

FLConsumer

eBay sent you canned responses because you go on for pages where a sentence would have sufficed. Not everyone has all day to read something that basically says "Put laptop on ebay. Buyer is nigerian scammer. Want refund. Can provide email record as proof upon request"

ahawks

MightyCow

postnocomments

Worst problem, if you're an out of stater, Federal Courts are going to dismiss your lawsuits since they do not have jurisdiction against these guys. You'll have to sue in the state they are located. They just change names and re-register on Ebay and continue the scam.

Also, "as is" in some states as is all KNOWN and DISCLOSED problems. Dealers like to fool people and say, hey as is means unknown and undisclosed as well.

I scanned the ebay motors, and as usual the worst scammers are still at it. I got to love the cars with certificate of destruction titles that can't be registered, only taken for parts, sold as if you could just salvage it.

Ebay is a scam. Fake this and that. You'll never know what you're getting.

lawstud

lawstud

TechnoDestructo

BTW, this quote pretty much sums up ebay:

"eBay seems now to be essentially broken. What used to be a 'virtual yard-sale' where one could hunt for - and potentially find - a good deal on a broad variety of eclectic items has now turned (in my opinion at least) into a hybrid mass of scammers and shady garage-retailers, clumped together with a straggling, dying breed of people who used to be excited about eBay, but who are now wishing it would return to what it used to be."

gomakemeasandwich

hegemonyhog

WraithSama

Also Australian eBay just passed a rule.

Sellers have to accept PayPal or cash ONLY. No checks or money orders allowed. And cash is available only on local pickups. So more ways to make money.

However CUSTOMER SERVICE still SUCKS. There is NO new or additional services for sellers or buyers.

Meltdown

Printed in Canada

ChuckBlack

Right now, it became popular to hack Australian's UK's account to complete ''Nigerian'' scams. You think your bidder has a good reputation, but it's not really this user that wants to buy it.

It would be really easy for eBay to give possibility to block buyers who don't have a confirmed address in PayPal. Maybe give ''Premium PayPal'' to those who are verified and have a confirmed address. Something that will prevent much more scams.

However, eBay collects fees every time someone doesn't read the auction and bids with unconfirmed address.

Meltdown

My biggest complaint about eBay is that you can't make it so bidders with 0 or negative feedback can't bid on your auction. Most of my bad experiences have been with new accounts who never end up paying. Oh, and I've also twice gotten incredibly obvious bootleg DVDs including one Korean movie with quite possibly the worst English subtitles I've ever seen.

All in all though, eBay is my go to place to sell and buy random things that you will never find on your local Craigslist.

wwwhitney

I wonder if we would have been ripped off trying to sell it now...sorry to hear eBay is so broken. I like craigslist as well, and what someone said about it not being good unless you live in the big city isn't true. I'm in a fairly small middle-of-the-cornfields college town and I've had a lot of luck with it.

welsey

I do still use ebay granted, but it is for the smaller, cheaper, simpler items. Sadly, I have far more faith in Amazon...

ShadowFalls

jamar0303

niteflytes

I've thought about using CL but being a single female I just don't feel safe meeting people I don't know to sell them a high price item like a laptop, even it if is in a public place, so I'll stick with ebay and hope something better comes along.

niteflytes

I, however, find eBay a great place to buy quirky little items like bento boxes and stickers, but that's about the extent of my eBay purchasing habits.

Paperclippe

AmeryRhesus

Craigslist only works if you live in a highly populated area. If you live in the boonies, you probably won't get many takers for your goods.

I had a U.S. only notebook sale on eBay in early 2006. When the auction ended, the high bidder said he was temporarily in Nigeria on business, blah blah blah. I didn't want to re-do the auction, but eBay wouldn't refund the fees; they'd only give me a credit. I asked eBay to contact the 2nd-place bidder, and fortunately he agreed to buy the computer. A week after that, eBay sent me a letter saying that the high bidder was using a hijacked account--duh.

ChuckECheese

Or you sold laptops in the same time you bought Windows 95, when scammers were a rare specie on eBay.

Meltdown

Ebay created a great market where anyone could sell anything, and then fucked us all over when they didn't figure out and try to prevent people people taking advantage of it.

I don't see any future in this at all. I feel sorry for people who invested a lot of time and money in an e-bay based business. I know there's a better way, but nobody seems to have come up with it yet. Given that, craigslist seems like the best way to go, if you have to watch your back on every sale, you might as well not have to pay someone for the privilege.

humphrmi

Meltdown

So if the buyer wins, and his address is unconfirmed? What's left to do? You are already stuck with listing/final value/PayPal fees. Do you eat them up? Or do you take a chance?

You cannot restrict bidding to ''confirmed addresses'' only. There is no way. eBay encourages fraud, only so it can collect fees.

So any suggestions?

Meltdown

Ebay is great for its critical mass and the fact that it is truly its own economy. The problem is the scalability of its Customer Service, moderation tools and the fact you have to pay for listings and transactions.

Craiglist is simple and and great for local distribution of items.

Shopit allows you to import you ebay store catalog and sell to your friends on Facebook, Myspace and other Social sites allowing for a higher level of trust between buyer and seller. And its all free.

rhettmcnulty

Craigslist and Amazon Marketplace are much better for both the consumer and the seller.

PlanetExpressdelivery

hillsrovey

I used to use eBay but, fuck them, they suck now.

Comms

se7a7n7

categorically

Decaye

trujunglist

webdoyenne

What isn't EXPRESSLY mentioned in the TOS you quote is that PERSONAL (i.e. fee-free) PayPal accounts can't accept credit cards. To accept credit cards, you must upgrade to a business account and from then on pay fees on ALL incoming funds, even bank funded ones. Essentially, what eBay is doing, but not saying, is that in order to sell on eBay and accept PayPal, you must have a Business PayPal account and then pay PayPal fees for all of your future transactions, even ones that have nothing to do with eBay auctions (such as your mom sending you cash for your birthday).

But instead of coming out and admitting to requiring a PayPal business account, they quietly try to herd you into the scheme by insisting you accept credit cards, which then forces you into the business account.

And, again, this was changed mid-stream. It used to be a small time private seller could accept PayPal with a personal account. It's not wonder that most of eBay now is overpriced business type sellers inflating prices to make up for all of eBay/PayPal's fees. It's almost impossible for a small private selling just wanting to have a 'world's largest garage sale' type listing.

JohnnyE

wmbrae

Orv

[pages.ebay.com]

Coles_Law

should have just shipped this to them

[www.zug.com]

Ramrod

allenv

eblack

Pixelantes Anonymous

The utter lack of support is a problem I've encountered, and apparently the only way around it is a certified letter with the words "Law Offices of" on the front.

Mr. Gunn

CafeSilver

Breach

That was after 3 failed auctions where the nigerians took over.

dieman

ExecutorElassus

Davan

That aside, eBay blows. I got scammed from both sides, so now it's CraigsList, cash-only, local. And I still have to tell the Nigerian scammers to bugger off.

ExecutorElassus

MrDo

ViperBorg

Anyway, ebay has been going down the tubes for awhile. I had a similar problem selling my laptop a few years ago. Never again.

phimuskapsi

Seems like semantics.

ffmariners

bizeesheri

Sure, for general-use electronics, craigslist is fine, but for more specialized stuff, you are not likely to find a local buyer.

I have gotten to know my local eBay store guy (I had to shop around to about a dozen places before I found someone that I connect with), and he takes a 33% commission on top of what eBay and Paypal charge.

BUT, I walk away with 60%, and NO HEADACHES. No flakes, no stupid emails from idiots, no people promising to come over, then never showing, and no problems at all.

I have better things to do with my time.

WillScarlett

AlessandroSils

It's a good venue for selling small, cheap items. Go north of say, 30 bucks and you will be reamed by fees.

I sell my old PSP and DS games there and routinely get much more than I'd get from gamestop, but still sold cheaper than anyone else.

JDAC

If you use the appropriate methods of buyer validation, you should be able to sell just fine on ebay.

This article is nothing more than posting the log of a melon head.

wesrubix

pmcpa2

forgottenpassword

The smart and crooked would prey on the trusting and honest (kind of like a lot of little Enron's) and the deaf,dumb and blind referee would take its huge share and say "not my problem".

Okay,enough philosophy.

Ways to defeat scammers:

Pre approved bidders lists. When the Nigerian scumbag emails you in pigeon english,block his bids.

Sell only to the U.S.If you get an email from someone overseas,you deserve to get screwed if you deal with them.They are outside the reach of U.S. law.

Money orders (preferably postal money orders-this makes the whole crime federal if they don't ship the goods )
Costs about 85 cents.Don't ship until paid in full. Over and out.

One great Paypal alternative is the ING Electric Orange checking account. They won't send a check unless you have the money in the account.They keep your balance so the money is deducted automatically and its impossible to write a rubber check.I have had a couple of good dinners with the Paypal fees that I have saved by accepting and sending these checks.Paypal can take their one sided TOS and piss up a tree.

Just my two cents...

Snarkysnake

ElizabethD

My local cable company was charging a "convenience fee" for paying by credit card, people started complaining and they had to stop.

No one can complain that they pay too much for things on eBay because you set the price based on how much you're will to pay. If it costs too much, don't buy it.

se7a7n7

I started out buying Beanie Babies for my kids in 1997 on eBay. My, how things have changed.

There's a scammer born every minute, apparently. And I *hate* the impersonality of dealing with eBay. (as illustrated by the saga above)

ElizabethD

Chuckle...

MPHinPgh

In fact, just a few months ago I sold an old iMac to a company in Israel, and the entire transaction was completed via PayPal, without any problems.

In the past I've even sold a car through eBay Motors [paid via PayPal], so I think that the seller in this article may have had a run of especially bad luck.

I've found Craigslist to be a bit trickier. It usually works well when selling in or near big cities, but out in the suburbs it becomes more difficult to complete a transaction. I've often had 5 - 10 people email me about an item, only to become no shows and then ignore emails.

catita

EyeHeartPie

patgillen

IrisMR

ByeBye

I do Craigslist. You get just as many scammers, but all you have to do is delete those e-mails.

The Big O

But, it is BS. And once I learned those terms I put my money where my mouth is and stopped using the service altogether.

ffmariners

BuddyGuyMontag

Educated consumers would embrace this.

I have a local gas station that exemplifies this perfectly. Their prices are always competitive with the other gas stations in the area. BUT they offer a CASH price which is usually 5-6 cents cheaper. Obviously they save money when you do not use c