gqcarrick

Daniel-Bham

slowenuff

This is a diversity issue. NY state is trying to apply a tax to sales through a company who has a principal place of business somewhere else.

Byzantine

The problem is what happens when all the states ask Amazon (or any other online seller) to collect the taxes. There are different rates for different items in different counties of different states. There are thousands of things to keep track of.

Keeping track of all of that would be a huge and expensive undertaking and would kill a lot of smaller sellers.

The original supreme court verdict was based on the notion that states requiring vendors to collect taxes would represent an unfair burden and that's exactly what it would be.

Create a simple, uniform way to apply sales tax and there's no problem. But as things are, we cannot have states requiring online and mail-order sellers to be their tax collectors.

Keat

Don't worry, those states still get their's. Toll roads combined with higher car tags, income and property taxes do quite well to offset for the lack of a sales tax.

StevenJohn

Obviously no one wants to pay more than they have to, but if you don't want a sales tax, then you need to get rid of it through political means.

Also to those of you whining and complaining about a mere 8% sales tax, get over yourselves. Most of the rest of the world pay 15-20% tax and are doing much better as a result. The U.S. has some of the lowest taxes in the world, I'm so sick of people complaining about it! It's no wonder the country is going down the tubes.

hackel

Patience young grasshopper, this is not the last we'll hear about this one anytime soon. I'm geeking out over this thing and can't wait to hear all of the arguments over the next several months if not years.

plustax

DeanOfAllTrades

can't sleep, taxes will eat me....

verucalise

Can you imaging how much it would cost to ship all those lawyers out to wherever those courts are? Even with Prime shipping.

...and I'm done!

LUV2CattleCall

Charred

This isn't a new tax or "another" tax; it's an attempt to enforce a virtually unenforcable, but already existing tax.

Consumerist, is it time for a "tax evaders" tag to supplement the "bad consumer" tag?

witeowl

SteveBobo

Byzantine

Me

however, get off your soapbox and quit being ignorant... do you realize how much it costs to operate a brick and mortar store???

Phildawg

GO OBAMA GO HILLARY RIGHT???? BUSH SUCKS!!!

Well come this fall, depending on who wins, is whether or not we will see internet tax throughout the US within the first couple of years.

Phildawg

Sellers in the market place on Amazon include NY residents. Amazon will probably loose this case.

mikelotus

If you have a republican who wants to raise taxes, then you have someone going against the code. That's like saying your Christian, but you dont believe in Jesus.

Bladefist

Now NY is asking Amazon to collect the tax for NY. So Amazon is suing them to stop.

What argument does Amazon have for not collecting the tax other than the fact that NY can not tax Kansas purchases or ask Kansas stores to tax goods for them. Except maybe that Kansas is not in NY's jurisdiction?

arcticJKL

Know any "real Scotsmen," while you're at it?

TheRealAbsurdist

Also Congress has been waiting to see what happens with the Streamline Sales Tax Project. It's not going as well as the original framers of that movement would have imagined. It's been the big retailers like Wal-Mart and Target that have taken the lead in making sure that project doesn't die and get all of the states to play along to simplify the entire sales and use tax process.

As far as destination based taxation is concerned I believe that is a bad idea and goes against why sales taxes were implimented in the first place. Sales taxes are collected for the benefit for those that pay them in thier local communities. If you switch to a desitnation based tax system many states, counties, cities and taxing disctricts will suffer greatly. That's been one of the big sticking points for SSTP.

We really need to make sure Congress does not get involved in this game. We'll be paying a GST and PST type tax in no time flat.

plustax

sisedi

In other words the Supreme Court left the door open for the opportunity to tax these sales, Congress has been slow to do so.

Ultimately the needs of the states will eventually win this battle.

One proposal floating around is to tax goods based upon the point of origin regardless of destination Ship from Alabama to New York, pay Alabama sales tax.

There are some states are opposed to that proposal as they only get to tax the goods that leave their state. A small, lightly populated state with few business engaged in internet/ mail-order sales, or a state without a sales tax would be tax deficient compared to other states.

All things considered, Congress is going to act in favor of the states.

StevenJohn

Borders tried the ole let's set up a seperate legal entity so therefore these are unrelated companies where the online retailer has no nexus. Their grand plan failed when the brick and morter Borders started to take back books from the online store acting like they were the same company. Opps. Other smaller retailers have learned from that and have done the same thing but insist that online sales must be returned to the online retailer. Great idea but a few states said nope, try again, saying that because of intelectual property existing within the state was enough to gain someone a hot plate of South Carolina Nexus.

plustax

The other alternative would be for the states to start requesting the sales records of each Internet company and start sending out bills directly to taxpayers. I'm not sure if I really want the state to have official record of my purchases all in the name of collecting tax. The nice thing that in CA and in a handful of other states it is the responsibility of the last seller to collect the tax and if they didn't the state does not go after the end user but in most other states they go after whoever they can. I had to deal with NY several times and they have no mercy.

plustax

It's another one of New York's silly ideas, like the Congestion Pricing in NYC. Keep this up New York and our 20 year relationship will be finally be over.

azntg

But the next time I visit family on the island, I'll make sure to take ya up on that offer!

verucalise

Orv

Unfortunately politicians lose their way and do not uphold the morals of their party. Less Taxes is at the very base of the republican party, and any increase in tax, goes against party values in my opinion. A lot of republicans follow this, a lot dont.

Bladefist

@dreamcatcher2: That would be tough, since Borders is an Amazon affiliate, and Borders is primarily a brick-and-mortar retailer.

Orv

Juggernaut

If I were Amazon, I would have simply required that all of my affiliates not have a New York address. Sure, there would be some brief hiccups, but I'm sure mail-forwarding services exist, and Amazon does not want to risk a loss here.

dreamcatcher2

rydel

[www.newsday.com]

The law isn't only targeted at Amazon; it targets all online retailers who use affiliate programs and have quarterly sales of greater than 10,000. You can actually read the text of the law here:

[assembly.state.ny.us]

The relevant part is Part M, on page 32 of the text. Oh, and you can find Amazon's complaint at:

[blog.wired.com]

{ProfJonathan}

professorjonathan

Because of a local store's superior service?

Applekid

chrisjames

"Why would I buy something locally and pay sales tax if I could mail order it tax free?"

Well the usual response to this would be: Because you have to pay shipping to mail order something and that is usually around the same amount as the tax. Sometimes more, sometimes less.

Tmoney02

Shirking taxes is the American way after all.

Applekid

The reason for laws like this, besides recovering lost revenue, is otherwise local businesses are put at a disadvantage. Why would I buy something locally and pay sales tax if I could mail order it tax free?

Orv

chrisjames

dabub

Trowble (XBL/PSN)

The burden it would create for a small sometimes one person online presence is astronomical. Many states require paperwork and funds be filed every 30 days. Some states also have city taxes mixed in so now you have to figure the city tax for every single sale also. Just in SD we have pages of two horse towns that all have a different city tax rate.

bohemian

Daniel-Bham

[www.streamlinedsalestax.org]

latemodel

Target would get just about every state out there wouldn't it. See thats where I think that the NY law isn't that flawed.

I buy a book, cd, movie, from amazon. No tax.
I buy a book, cd, movie from Target.com who uses Amazon.com to fill and ship their orders. Tax.

I think that the internet, much, much more the catalog sales require a re-examination from the supreme court on what counts as nexus.

tande

snoop-blog

Buran

Bladefist

It does look a little targeted to me.

twiddling_my_thumbs

New York consumers are always "required" to pay the tax. They recieved the property in that state. They aren't sales taking place in other states.

tande

speedwell

New York is trying to tax sales that take place in other states and/or that crosses state lines - hence interstate commerce.

arcticJKL

Amen to that. They can take their high taxes, unreasonable fines and fees and crap they levy on people that live there, and shove 'em.

Saboth

cpalifer

Whats going to happen if Amazon loses is, Amazon is just going to lose a lot of NY business. The government isn't going to take in much revenue, and is just going to punish Amazon for being a retail store.

If I was Jeff Bezos, I'd block all NY IPs. lol. Ok no I wouldn't, but that would be hilarious.

Bladefist

Munsoned

Now granted, no one ever pays it and it's pretty much unenforceable - but please don't laud Amazon for facilitating your own tax evasion.

Skiffer

Wow.

Another example of an American government overstepping its bounds and crippling big business.

aront

mac-phisto

Bladefist

Generally, don't mind paying taxes, but this is a little below the belt. Isn't it bad enough we pay the highest Gas Tax in the WHOLE United States?!?

verucalise

It's purely an administrative (i.e., financial burden) issue.

Skiffer

snazz

Yes, although in practice there's no way to enforce this tax. Michigan had it too, when I lived there, and literally almost no one paid it. It has to be the most widely flaunted tax in existence.

Orv

This is going to hurt NY more than it will help them.

differcult

thalia

We ended up settling for a much smaller amount, but our client will never do any kind of business in that city again.

Cattivella

FLConsumer

Amazon is the biggest fish in that pond, but they are not the only fish in that pond. Bottom line, the law was not written specifically against Amazon.

StevenJohn

Atsumi

akalish

I hope that Amazon prevails.

Pennsylvanian123

It is a horribly written law that will never fly.

bohemian

Jaysyn was banned for: http://consumerist.com/5032912/the-subprime-meltdown-will-be-nothing-compared-to-the-prime-meltdown#c7042646

speedwell

HeartBurnKid, creepy morbid freak

Ron21

digitalhen