Shadowfire

All 50 states say I can LEGALLY drink an drive... assuming my BAL doesn't go above a magic number. It's up to me to decide if I've had too much.

Who's wrong if I get busted for drunk driving? The state because they let me make a judgment that's virtually impossible? You can't tell your own BAL without the right hardware which 99.9997% of the population doesn't have.

Of course *I'm at fault*. If I'm not 100% positive I can handle driving and am below the legal limit, I shouldn't drive at all under the influence.

It's no different. They gave him discretion. He failed.

digitalgimpus

No. The TSA did the risk analysis. He did what he was required to.

dwneylonsr

kbarrett

Yes, putting anything in the trigger guard of a loaded firearm, unless you intend to fire it, is insane.

Yes, they required the pilot to do this while in the landing approach, a procedure that is insane.

Yes, while making decisions collectively, TSA 'crats are insane.

Air Marshals aren't required to fiddle with their firearms while they are loaded ... so they do not have negligent discharges during flights ... their procedures were written by law enforcement officers, not insane TSA ( ex-BATF ) bureaucrats.

kbarrett

But that is exactly my point: the air marshals don't have to lock away their firearms during takeoff, landing, and when they need to use the restroom, so why should the pilots?

If they are qualified to carry the weapon during flight, they should have no trouble with takeoff and landing. Unless, of course, we think the pilots are not really qualified to carry firearms on a plane.

alhypo

I could easily say "I think my house can withstand a hurricane, so I'll build on the beach".

If my house doesn't... is it bad judgment? Or is it the hurricane's fault?

He did the risk analysis and was wrong.

His job involves many lives (as any plane crash shows). One strike rule applies.

digitalgimpus

ChuckECheese

nonzenze

Yeah, but it went through the fuselage. So much for the myth of non-piercing bullets on airplanes.

SuperJdynamite

Shadowfire

Shadowfire

alhypo

And you should never try to put on a trigger-lock while a gun is loaded (unless, of course, the FAA says it's okay since they seem to know what they're doing).

I don't understand why they don't simply keep the weapons holstered for the entire flight, including takeoff and landing. Every instance where you must "mess" with the weapon is yet another opportunity for something to go wrong. If it just remains in the holster for the entire flight (except in the unlikely event they actually need to use it) there is very little that can go wrong.

alhypo

Propaniac

azntg

The pilot is required to carry the pistol unlocked during flight. The pilot is required to lock the pistol prior to landing. The pilot is also required to lock the pistol every time he leaves the cockpit. The holster is designed in such a way that it's not possible to see the position of the lock in relation to the trigger when inserting and removing the lock. This incident was caused more by the unworkable rules of the TSA than any incompetence on the part of the pilot. Please go here for more information.

dwneylonsr

And yes, i made that stat up.

Wormfather

@Skrizzy: Trust me, there are no lack of pilots. If I thought I had a bat's chance in hell of getting hired without knowing someone in the hiring chain at a major airline, I'd start flying again to get my ratings and ditch the traditional corporate America BS.

barty

President Beeblebrox

Knowing TSA procedure, he decided he could safely perform the required procedures to handle the weapon in the cockpit.

His judgment proved false.

Sorry, but we shouldn't be allowing pilots who can't make good decisions to be pilots. The reason they are paid to "babysit autopilot" is because of their sound decision making.

He wasn't forced to carry the firearm. He choose to, while knowing the risks. He thought he could handle it... he didn't.

The most important part of his job is risk assessment.

I don't buy the "it's the TSA's fault". It would be if they forced all pilots to carry, but they made it volunteer. If someone comes forward and says "I can do it", and can't... that's just poor judgment, nothing less, nothing more. Unfortunately for him, judgment is a key part of the job.

digitalgimpus

The circumstances in which the pilot should need to use the weapon are exceedingly rare. Given that, why would it need to be moved/prepared/touched at all during flight?

Juice Box Hero

Skrizzy

Noiddog

I hope he goes on the national media and blows them all to hell.

nonzenze

There is no safety on the model that is issued, i.e. they have no choice, it is a double action pistol.

The holster was modified so a PADLOCK went INSIDE the trigger guard, ensuring at some point the firearm would discharge accidently.

Here is a writeup by an experienced shooter as to what went wrong at the TSA:

All true...my understanding is that the gun chosen for the pilots is the double-action-only version using H-K's LEM (Law Enforcement Module) system to lighten the DA pull. Here's the H-K catalog page.

What do we know about double-action only guns, whether they be semiautos or revolvers? Well, the first thing we know is that if you pull the trigger, the gun will go bang. The longer DA stroke guarantees that there has to be a deliberate pull of the trigger for the gun to fire.

Here's an important question...does it take a deliberate finger to pull a trigger? Ummmm, no...the trigger doesn't know or care what pulls it. You can pull a trigger with a pencil, a tree branch or the snagged tail of your shirt. People who carry pocket pistols not in a pocket holster have pulled the trigger with their pocket change. And consider the word "deliberate." A finger on the trigger can unintentionally fire a gun, say if the person whose finger is on the trigger is jossled or bumped, or if they have to grab with their weak hand, which can sometimes cause a sympathetic clinching of hand on the gun. Or let's say your finger is on the trigger when you attempt to reholster the gun...it'll go bang every time...probably the most common neglient discharge in the world.

That trigger thing is why we have moved to holsters for concealed carry and competition that fully cover the trigger guard, blocking access to the trigger. The harder it is to get to the trigger accidentally, the less likely the gun is going to go bang when we don't want it to.

[michaelbane.blogspot.com]

Snowblind

StevieD

AlphaUltima

APFPilot

mgy

[www.latimes.com]

chartrule

LaurenKitsune

BuddyGuyMontag

BuddyGuyMontag

BuddyGuyMontag