mariospants

Smitherd

There should be no negotiations at all, the sale is legally binding . . boom, take the 60K, give him the damned car. End of story.

sublicon

iaintgoingthere

rellog

I'm guessing you have no experience with BMW; this is the Motorsport 3-series, the M3. $60K for the new 2008 is a STEAL, and it's in huge demand right now.

b-real

Teh1337Pirate

IMHO all Auto dealers should haver the name Huckster befor the title of the dealership to remind you always. Swindler or Liar would also be acceptable.

You know, Huckster Ford, Huckster Hyundai, Liar Lincoln, Swindler Subaru/Suzuki.

dazzlezak

ViperBorg

You are correct VT stores are the worst, good luck! They are kown for pulling these stunts, and yes between all their dealerships, they do pull in multi billion + dollars in sales (not profit)

Get as much negative publicity as possible out in the open. In the end this will (and rightfully so) should cost them more then 1 customer and 1 sale...

kalikidtx

seth1066

Make all the bashing of us on the interweb stop?

Or maybe, You can't ever never visit my salemans myspace page any more?
[profile.myspace.com]
[profile.myspace.com]

DojiStar

Neecy

===============

Sorry its taken so long to post a update. The site is very slow (understandably). This morning, BMW of Lincoln has agreed to sell me the car at a price of 60K, with certain conditions. I'll be going over the conditions with the dealership tommorow, and I hope to have everything finalized by tommorow afternoon.

But one thing that I would like to make everyone aware of is, BMW of Lincoln is proactively working to correct the situation that they screwed up. And yes, they screwed up big time, no doubt about that.They are trying to do right, so please don't harass the dealership right now. No phone calls, threats, emails or fake sales calls.

That said, I would just like to take a step back for a moment.
The past few days have been insane. Just thinking about what has transpired, leaves you speechless really. How did this thing go from a M3post.com rant to what it became today? In 3 days, the site amassed
650+ comments and 200,000 page views, with people posting from all around the world, lending their support and help. Thats people I dont even know! Amazing stuff, and probably the coolest thing I have ever
been part of, leveraging the internet in a way that I have never seen before. People I have never met, making calls on my behalf, contacting automotive sites, supplying information, just doing anything and everything possible to help out.

Lets do it again sometime, I hope to be there for someone when they are in need.

Thanks guys, there are good people in this world after all.
I'll post again tommorow.

Regards

Ken

==============

[www.m3post.com]

Lets hear it for the power of the internet!!!

Neecy

Sorry its taken so long to post a update. The site is very slow (understandably). This morning, BMW of Lincoln has agreed to sell me the car at a price of 60K, with certain conditions. I'll be going over the conditions with the dealership tommorow, and I hope to have everything finalized by tommorow afternoon.

But one thing that I would like to make everyone aware of is, BMW of Lincoln is proactively working to correct the situation that they screwed up. And yes, they screwed up big time, no doubt about that.They are trying to do right, so please don't harass the dealership right now. No phone calls, threats, emails or fake sales calls.

That said, I would just like to take a step back for a moment.
The past few days have been insane. Just thinking about what has transpired, leaves you speechless really. How did this thing go from a M3post.com rant to what it became today? In 3 days, the site amassed
650+ comments and 200,000 page views, with people posting from all around the world, lending their support and help. Thats people I dont even know! Amazing stuff, and probably the coolest thing I have ever
been part of, leveraging the internet in a way that I have never seen before. People I have never met, making calls on my behalf, contacting automotive sites, supplying information, just doing anything and everything possible to help out.

Lets do it again sometime, I hope to be there for someone when they are in need.

Thanks guys, there are good people in this world after all.
I'll post again tommorow.

Regards

Ken

IndyJaws

failurate

failurate

As Toddy33 just noted, the buyer did get contacted by the dealership indicating he would get the $60k price with certain conditions that have not been disclosed (as of yet).

Woofer00

redkamel

Geekybiker

toddy33

cylonite

strathmeyer

Pylon83

Ken should have skipped the appeal and went straight for revenge. Leave postive feedback for the sale. When the dealer tries to claim the sale was never completed, insist to eBay he had paid and received the vehicle.

Now the dealer is stuck paying the final value fee on a $60000 sale.

Bender

jhuang

Pylon83

minvasive

Fil Catania
General Manager

Ryan Mathis
Vehicle Sales Manager

Jeff Martz
Internet Manager

(866) 520-7950
(402) 479-7600

thbarnes

Buran

Having read through the 30+ pages of forum messaging, I'd have to discourage anyone else from doing so - there's a lot of bickering in there over the terms of the auction and eBay's policies regarding contract issues, reserve prices, and avenues of recourse. It's chock full of "+1 support" posts and inaccurate legal references by non-lawyers interpreting non-statute texts (ex: the UCC, while strongly persuasive and copied nearly identically by many states, is not binding law)

For now, the situation as it stands seems to be that that the dealer has thus far refused to honor the closing price of $60k and has attempted to renegotiate the terms to make an offer of $65.6k (a discount of $3k off the MSRP but only ~1.3k off the BuyItNow price of 66926). It is worth noting that the price is unlikely to be a mistake, as the seller made numerous modifications to the auction including changes to the BIN price. A quick review of the seller's feedback also indicates that the dealer has on one occasion in the recent past failed to fulfill a closing price.

Woofer00

Man, a fully loaded M3 for $60k? That's one heckofa bargain.

SOhp101

Buran

jpx72x

Ebay offers evidence that the buyer bought the car. beyond that, they basically don't matter, anymore.

cerbie

If the dealer sold the car either during the listing period (and did not remove the listing), or after the auction completed (entering into a second contract on the same item), then they've created their own problem. It also starts to sound like fraud.

mantari

And since VIN numbers are specific, and the dealer doesn't have the car because somebody walked in off the street and purchased it, the dealer can not fulfill the ebay sale.

And there is nothing wrong with the dealer selling the car while offering the car on ebay. Ebay is just another channel to sell the product, not an exclusive channel to sell the product.

Even if not true, the dealer only has to claim that they sold the car, entered the wrong VIN number yada yada and the dealer is off the hook.

Bottom line, Ebay will side with the dealer.

StevenJD

gqcarrick

actually...it's been my experience that you usually lose on ebay.

it's like this quote...."no one really wins, you just hope to do a little better each time you play." cleveland brown on family guy

unclescrooge

seth1066

jhuang

BeFrugalNotCheap

jeblis

Pylon83

nequam

Seriously, how is this punishment? Unless they have a lot of feedback, they can just create another acount.

The guy should take BMW to court and rape them against the wall.

linus

And as an arbitration, if you're saying "Well ebay certainly has more incentive to side w/ BMW" then frankly, that's not arbitration! And as so, neither side is obligated to follow through.

For more information, see Judge Judy and how her court proceedings work. Though she likes to bitch and moan, her decision isn't final even as an arbitration court!

If I was the buyer - I'd do a quick little thing known as Small Claims Court. You can't sue for the full amount of the BMW, but you sue for damages related to the transaction, such as time spent handling this situation. You can be sure this will make the news headlines then!

Really, it all depends of the legal basis that Ebay has.

한국어/조선말

nequam

Stanwell

I don't know if anybody mentioned this, too lazy to read all the comments, but the feedback change doesn't take effect 'til MAY. Sellers can still leave buyers negative feedback.

cashmerewhore

chadb

Michael Belisle

The ad-hominem attack is a natural response to a wrong for some. I'd like to think that, in the heat of things, they're just having trouble seeing the big picture. The Daily Show has a saying for that part of their psyche: You're not helping.

It's best to check your emotions at the door.

Michael Belisle

Pylon83

Dont Know Me? You Are Me.

Buran

Buran

A deal is a deal, read the policies of Ebay, this dealership needs to honor the price, it was sold at auction and that is it.

Whoever made the mistake needs to be held accountable, that simple !

Netlizard

revmatty

NightSteel

Buran

The icing on the cake? She left ME negative feedback (spoiling my 100% positive record, in which everyone else was happy with me for fast ship/pay) saying "Seller was rude".

Well that's her problem if she thinks people are rude for trying to collect. I had to report her to ebay to get her to pay.

The "It was worth it" result? She lost her account for having out of date contact info and ebay kicked her for violating the rules.

Buran

azntg

that pretty much soured me from the whole ebay dealer auction thing for me. car dealers are sleazy enough when you're waving cash in front of their face, the anonymity of the internet makes it even worse.

mac-phisto

tlpintpe

gopher1978

Bad press means nothing when you're the only game in town, however eBay will side with the buyer on this one if only to collect their fees.

cmdrsass

However, what the dealer is doing is clearly in violation of ebay's rules. There's no obvious pricing error. The auction was completed and the dealer was obviously watching what was going on with the price and did not cancel the auction or set a reserve.

bonzombiekitty

Say 1 million for each, then back out and say it was just a mistake. We did not mean to bid at that price.

SonicMan

As for the seller losing their account, it depends on a lot of things, but don't count on it unless they have a history of eBay violations.

Darkwish

Funny how they turn around to ethics once they didn't get what they awnt out of the car.

Coder4Life

philipbarrett2003

nutrigm

Course, that's a sweet looking car and I'm surprised they'd even need to put it on Ebay.

Asvetic

ClayS

cerbie

whsprint

Sounds like the sticker price for this car may be way off, and the market price closer to $60,000. Other prospective buyers should take note of that.

razremytuxbuddy

reviarg

CRNewsom

EBounding

Smitherd

The dealer is part of the Van Tuyl automotive group, the largest (at least at one time) privately held dealership group in America. Billions may be right on the button.

I'm wondering if this isn't a mistake so much as a crappy MO for doing business.

BMW Lincoln is part of the Van Tuyl Group. Van Tuyl also owns the Vandergriff dealerships in Arlington, Texas. These are the folks who initially tried to sneak in a 7% sales price increase on a new Chevrolet I purchased in January. I made arrangements over the internet. The salesman (a decent fellow) gave me a good quote on a bottom-feeder Aveo and quoted me an out-the-door price that I accepted. When I drove 100 miles to pick up the auto, he took the sales form back to his manager, they jacked up the price by 600. In this case, I showed them the original out the door quote (I'd printed out the email), and after some hesitation (and some serious frowning), they finally honored it. I appreciate that they honored the price in the end, but I feel pretty sure that I'd have been stiffed if I didn't have the original quote in writing.

Also, it seems that I'm not the only one who's had this problem with Van Tuyl salesmen: [www.ripoffreport.com]

Makes me think that this may not have been a mistake at all with the M3. I think I'm seeing a pattern here.

Anyone had similar problems with VT Dealerships? Here's a list of VT dealers from 2000:
Westway Ford, Irving, TX
Reliable Chevrolet, Richardson, TX
Camelback Toyota, Phoenix
Showcase Honda, Phoenix
Reliable Chevrolet/Mercedes-Benz, Springfield, MO
ABC Nissan, Phoenix
Trophy Nissan, Mesquite, TX
Vandergriff Chevrolet, Arlington, TX
Toyota of Richardson, TX
Van Chevrolet, Scottsdale, AZ
Pinnacle Nissan/Infiniti, Scottsdale, AZ
Showcase Pontiac-GMC, Phoenix
Crest Autogroup (Cadillac-Isuzu-Kia), Plano, TX
Cerritos Nissan, Cerritos, CA
Van Chevrolet, Carrollton, TX
Grand Prairie Ford, Grand Prairie, TX
Reliable Chevrolet, Tulsa, OK
Showcase Chevrolet, Dallas
Reliable Toyota/Lexus/BMW, Springfield, MO
Gwinnett Place Ford, Duluth, GA
Miles Chevrolet/Nissan, Decatur, IL
Huber Chevrolet, Omaha
Reliable Chevrolet, Albuquerque, NM

Al in Texas

jamar0303

Greeper

Riddar

If the auction ran its course, rather than they started said auction, realized the no reserve mistake and fixed the auction or shut it down that would be different.

$4 grand under MSRP doesn't sound like a big deal on a car going for that much money. When you can get $3 grand off deals on cheapo domestic cars all the time.

bohemian

He made a nice little deal, saved about 6-7 grand plus all of those damn dealer fees. no wonder the dealer doesn't want to give it to him.

demonsun

consumersaur

less_is_best

I corrected Michael, and told him your company may have revenue in the millions, but you make 35K a year, screwed the pooch on this one so lets not get carried away.

Do people really think that insulting the person that they are trying to get something from (even if that something is rightfully theirs) is going to help things?

madanthony

Will they? I once had a buyer flake out on me after he won an auction, and then changed his mind. He got an upaid item strike, but his account is still active. Maybe it's different for sellers (especially on that level), but even if eBay does close the account, they probably won't stop the dealership from opening a new one.

Unless BMW gets spooked by the bad publicity, I think the only way the buyer gets satisfaction is to pursue it in court. But since they're in two different states, I doubt that's going to happen.

Scotus

As much as I hope he gets the car for the agreed-upon price, I think there's a lesson in all of this: If you're going to do business with an actual company over e-bay, check up on them (i.e. BBB's site, ebay Feedback) before going through with anything. Not saying that would change this situation, but if it was me and I had seen their BBB page, I'd like to think I would have thought twice about putting in a bid.

AddMan

sweetpea12

[pages.ebay.com]

one of the rules is

Completing the sale

If your item sells successfully, the sale needs to be completed. This includes contacting your buyer, accepting payment and shipping the item.

chartrule

Car dealerships are all about control.

PS: There is another term for "mistake". It is negligence. He should not have to pay for the dealership's negligence.

mantari

Thomas Palmer

picardia

The really odd thing is this car isn't really a huge steal since its higher than base MSRP (though I'm sure the options make it more expesnive). Just another company thinking they make all the rules. I have emailed the dealer to inform them of my opinion and the fact they are all over the web with bad press.

LJKelley

"If he would have bid $120,000 on the car and tried to back out of it, they would have sued the pants off him."

Sometimes you win and sometimes you lose on ebay.

CRNewsom

I do wonder if ebay will eventually side with the dealer due to conflicts of interest. To wrap in another popular topic, its just like arbitration. The auto dealer likely does a lot more business than Ken does with ebay and has strong incentive to keep them as a customer.

ARP

ghnvt

homerjay

Greeper

knyghtryda

timmus

CRNewsom

colinjay