JC Penney: Excuse Me Sir, "The Big & Tall Section Is Over There..." - Consumerist Comments

JC Penney: Excuse Me Sir, "The Big & Tall Section Is Over There..."

painfullyblunt — Mon, 17 Mar 2008 22:59:07 EDT

5'11 and 210 is borderline big/tall depending on what brand of clothing, what store etc. Many different clothing makers use different standards for sizes and cut can also affect what will fit comnfortably and what won't (though this is more of an issue for the ladies then the guys)

That said, it's not always easy to accurately judge weight and if you see a tall person (sorry but 5'11 is tall to me) I could see where they genuinely thought they were being helpful. Again, the poster is borderline in that catagory.

All that said, it's generally a bad idea to make assumptions about a persons weight or size because you're probably wrong. So I don't think I'd go on an email bomb but a politely worded letter is probably a reasonable idea.

Where you would wanna go ballistic is if, on Mother's day, the waitress says to your pleasantly plump wife "congratulations!" and pats her belly. Hell, I think slugging the waitress might even be legal in some states.

painfullyblunt

JC Penney: Excuse Me Sir, "The Big & Tall Section Is Over There..."

freedom69 — Wed, 12 Mar 2008 22:03:50 EDT

I say yes go ahead and complain. The associate was aboviously an ass. They did not know who you were shopping for, and really should not care since you did not ask for his/her help. I am glad i was not in your shoes because I would have had a few choice words for them and none of them would have been very nice.

freedom69

JC Penney: Excuse Me Sir, "The Big & Tall Section Is Over There..."

thisisjacked — Sun, 09 Mar 2008 11:48:03 EDT

Well, how short and skinny was the guy that directed him to big and tall?

thisisjacked

JC Penney: Excuse Me Sir, "The Big & Tall Section Is Over There..."

lakecountrydave — Sat, 08 Mar 2008 20:15:57 EST

@210 lbs. and 5'11 is not necessarily obese. I am 6' and 250# (before breakfast), and I am by no means obese. I have 3% body fat. Mike Tyson stands 5'11", and weighed 215 3/4 when he weighed in for his fight against Larry Holmes in 1988. He might be a joke today, but then he was certainly not thought of as pudgey. Obesity has a direct relationship with your body type (genetics) and lifestyle (tv veiwing habits).

lakecountrydave

JC Penney: Excuse Me Sir, "The Big & Tall Section Is Over There..."

witeowl — Sat, 08 Mar 2008 01:26:18 EST

@witeowl: *slender

witeowl

JC Penney: Excuse Me Sir, "The Big & Tall Section Is Over There..."

witeowl — Sat, 08 Mar 2008 01:10:10 EST

I think the greater issue is not that the employee was implying that the guy was overweight, but that the employee was implying that the guy was a complete moron.

Ooooohhhh.... so THAT's why none of this fits me! Thank you SO much. I'd be walking around NAKED if it weren't for kind strangers like you.

Seriously. Reverse the roles. A slenter woman is shopping in the plus-size area. A clerk offers help. The woman declines. The clerk points out where the misses clothing is. Yeah, thanks. I'm not an idiot. My mom is a 24W, not that it's any of your business, bitch. Let me repeat again that I don't need help.

witeowl

JC Penney: Excuse Me Sir, "The Big & Tall Section Is Over There..."

sibertater — Fri, 07 Mar 2008 23:57:47 EST

Why not retaliate? Who else but a giant homo would say something like that to a customer? I should know, I'm a giant homo.

sibertater

JC Penney: Excuse Me Sir, "The Big & Tall Section Is Over There..."

Saboth — Fri, 07 Mar 2008 17:41:59 EST

I dunno, I've seen some "Big" sections start around size 38...sounds like he would have been in the right area. I'm 5'10" and 200 lbs, and I know I am getting on the pudgy side.

Sounds to me the salesperson was on the right track.

Saboth

JC Penney: Excuse Me Sir, "The Big & Tall Section Is Over There..."

failurate — Fri, 07 Mar 2008 11:56:12 EST

@alexiso: I think that was just a comment about the weather and whether or not you are taking a vacation, or just wishing you were somewhere warm enough to wear a bikini.

failurate

JC Penney: Excuse Me Sir, "The Big & Tall Section Is Over There..."

Papa Midnight — Fri, 07 Mar 2008 11:30:01 EST

Sounds to me like the employee was just trying to be helpful - in a weird sort of way. I honestly believe the employee legitimately thought he was being helpful. Obviously this person nor the persons around him thought the same.

Papa Midnight

JC Penney: Excuse Me Sir, "The Big & Tall Section Is Over There..."

bobblack555 — Fri, 07 Mar 2008 10:56:06 EST

Oh just shrug it off. Jeez. The store employee was a jerk, yes, but grow a thick skin. I'm 6'2 and 200 lbs. and I wouldn't have been offended, I would have just thought the employee was an a$$hole.

Thick skins, people!

bobblack555

JC Penney: Excuse Me Sir, "The Big & Tall Section Is Over There..."

TexasScout — Fri, 07 Mar 2008 10:45:59 EST

"Oh yeah, BTW Mr. Sales Dude, the "Dumb and Crass" section is over there."

TexasScout

JC Penney: Excuse Me Sir, "The Big & Tall Section Is Over There..."

cockeye — Fri, 07 Mar 2008 10:33:21 EST

Well, it was rude, and if it bothers the op, then yes, he should say something. But, maybe the problem is that the seller could have said it with more tact. For example, "Just to let you know, we also have another section over there that might suit your needs," or whatever.
I have never had someone suggest I go to petite, and I wouldn't be insulted if they did (less of a stigma there anyway), but because I am in my twenties and small, I still shop in Juniors and constantly get mistaken for a teenager. I find it irritating, but I understand it's a reasonable mistake.

cockeye

JC Penney: Excuse Me Sir, "The Big & Tall Section Is Over There..."

dafountain — Fri, 07 Mar 2008 10:25:56 EST

In retail, you need to learn to keep your mouth shut any never assume anything. Offer help and answer what's been asked. This way you don't piss off the person who is about to give you money that pays your salary. Absolutley turn the asshole in.

dafountain

JC Penney: Excuse Me Sir, "The Big & Tall Section Is Over There..."

LawyerontheDL — Fri, 07 Mar 2008 09:44:27 EST

It doesn't sound like the salesperson was necessarily being insulting. It sounds to me more like the customer is really sensitive about his weight. The salesperson may have considered the customer TALL, since the section was big and tall, not Fatties.

LawyerontheDL

JC Penney: Excuse Me Sir, "The Big & Tall Section Is Over There..."

dirk1965 — Fri, 07 Mar 2008 08:21:44 EST

5'11" & 210lbs... you may not be 'big', but you're overweight. You should be in the 175-180lb range. I'm guilty like a majority of Americans of being overweight, but I'm doing something about it. Minus 20+ lbs and counting. Sometimes it takes comments like that to give you a swift kick in your fat butt to do something about it.

dirk1965

JC Penney: Excuse Me Sir, "The Big & Tall Section Is Over There..."

anatak — Fri, 07 Mar 2008 08:21:29 EST

@BugMeNot2: Is that a 'big and tall' large, or a real large?

anatak

JC Penney: Excuse Me Sir, "The Big & Tall Section Is Over There..."

alexiso — Fri, 07 Mar 2008 07:26:40 EST

This JUST happened to me at Pac Sun on Monday. I went shopping to see about bathing suits and I tried on a bikini. I had a gay man assist me and he said "Oh are you going somewhere or is this just wishful thinking?" It didn't even register to me what he said until I was in the changing room - I did not buy the bikini since it was ugly and now I'm doing 100 sits ups a day because of him.
Thanks Pac Sun!

alexiso

JC Penney: Excuse Me Sir, "The Big & Tall Section Is Over There..."

Phildawg — Fri, 07 Mar 2008 05:45:00 EST

I meant to say Size 44 is considered a normal wait, 40 used to be the normal limit, then 42... and now it is 44.

Normal of course as in what section you look in. You won't find size 44 pants in JCP's Big & Tall section.

Phildawg

JC Penney: Excuse Me Sir, "The Big & Tall Section Is Over There..."

Phildawg — Fri, 07 Mar 2008 05:43:46 EST

@NardoNardo123: You probably aren't a Big & Tall customer, but FYI, at JCP, Big & Tall starts at size 46 waist... Yes, Size 42 waist is considered normal clothes. So this is really ridiculous.

Phildawg

JC Penney: Excuse Me Sir, "The Big & Tall Section Is Over There..."

snclfe — Fri, 07 Mar 2008 03:51:11 EST

@B: To answer your question - no one should really care what a JC Penny's employee thinks. BUT - a JC Penny's manager should care about an employee voicing a rude thought to a customer.

snclfe

JC Penney: Excuse Me Sir, "The Big & Tall Section Is Over There..."

Trai_Dep — Fri, 07 Mar 2008 03:25:23 EST

Anyone wanna bet the guys pulling atypical pro athletes out as an example of how off the BMI is (and yeah it is, IF you're in great shape, as they themselves note) are flabby guys with stomachs leaking past their mid-thigh?

It's a ballpark estimate, guys, meaning most (but not all) people fit.

If you're 220lbs w/ a body fat index under 5%, fine. But I'll bet a double-deep-fried Snickers bar that you're not. So stop the whining - geezus, it's unmanly.

Trai_Dep

JC Penney: Excuse Me Sir, "The Big & Tall Section Is Over There..."

arilvdc — Fri, 07 Mar 2008 02:50:42 EST

@maztec: But if that idiot kids never realizes he offended someone, and keeps offering unsolicitited advice and no one ever says anything...he may eventually become a manager. He thought he was being helpful, and from the sound of it wasn't snarky or rude, so why wouldn't he eventually get promoted? If you don't speak up, nothing will change.

arilvdc

JC Penney: Excuse Me Sir, "The Big & Tall Section Is Over There..."

ampersand — Fri, 07 Mar 2008 02:33:00 EST

@Chase: "I find it flattering, as not many men have the ability to be hit on by both genders."
Clearly, you aren't visiting the right bars.

ampersand

JC Penney: Excuse Me Sir, "The Big & Tall Section Is Over There..."

ampersand — Fri, 07 Mar 2008 02:27:38 EST

@backbroken: Haha, the "Super Terrific Clothing Section" reminds me of a store I went into that had their section for larger teens labeled "Extra Cool Juniors" or some similar nonsense. How absurd.

ampersand

JC Penney: Excuse Me Sir, "The Big & Tall Section Is Over There..."

loueloui — Fri, 07 Mar 2008 00:52:17 EST

I once worked for Macys doing visual effects. One day while I was hanging a sign a lady came up to me and asked if they had any additional swimsuits. I admit I was largely ignorant of the layout of the store at this point, and suggested she look upstairs in Macy WOMAN. She just stopped for a second, and with a puzzled look on her face said ,'Isn't that for larger sizes?'

I had never really noticed this before, but the 'Woman' moniker suddenly made sense. I immediately recognized that I had said something stupid, and could no longer recover from that. I stammered something out like 'I don't know', and then took off.

loueloui

JC Penney: Excuse Me Sir, "The Big & Tall Section Is Over There..."

AmericaTheBrave — Fri, 07 Mar 2008 00:04:41 EST

You should have just said, "And where is the 'I'm going to stab you in the fucking eye' section?"

AmericaTheBrave

JC Penney: Excuse Me Sir, "The Big & Tall Section Is Over There..."

camman68 — Thu, 06 Mar 2008 23:40:21 EST

A similiar thing happend to a friend of mine. We went to applebee's and while we were getting seated, the waitress asked my friend if he had seen the new Weight Watchers Menu.

camman68

JC Penney: Excuse Me Sir, "The Big & Tall Section Is Over There..."

forgottenpassword — Thu, 06 Mar 2008 23:25:42 EST

@tcp100:

I personally LOVED your rant (and I agree with it). I am going to have to keep an eye out for your posts, because I like how you think.

@forgottenpassword:

Hmmm... dont know where that came from.... must have been an automatic response to how I hate being treated by salespeople. *shrug*

forgottenpassword

JC Penney: Excuse Me Sir, "The Big & Tall Section Is Over There..."

Decaye — Thu, 06 Mar 2008 23:15:46 EST

His call. Seeing as it OBVIOUSLY was not warranted, she was probably being bitchy on purpose. I personally would have either fired back, or left the store, but he's probably justified in getting her in trouble.

Decaye

JC Penney: Excuse Me Sir, "The Big & Tall Section Is Over There..."

D.B. Cooper-Nichol — Thu, 06 Mar 2008 23:11:41 EST

@iwantansi: That reminds me of my favorite Brooks Bros/"you're fat" story.

I'm in the BB outlet to buy a suit, and your stereotypical 70-plus, "lifer" suit salesman walks over as I'm going through the rack: "What size pants, son?" "I wear 36 waist," I said.

He looks me up and down real quick (I hadn't tried on anything yet), and says, "you may wear a 36, but your size is a 38."

My first thought was to be offended, but I had to laugh, and when I tried on the 38s, they fit great.

D.B. Cooper-Nichol

JC Penney: Excuse Me Sir, "The Big & Tall Section Is Over There..."

failurate — Thu, 06 Mar 2008 22:36:34 EST

Lamest reason for a consumerist thread ever? I think we have a winner... and a loser.

failurate

JC Penney: Excuse Me Sir, "The Big & Tall Section Is Over There..."

Rode2008 — Thu, 06 Mar 2008 22:26:01 EST

In the field of law, something called "justiciable controversy" often comes up. Consider, for example, the following: if a pharmaceutical company is legitimately liable for some deaths (or serious injuries) due to a toxic compound in their product, certainly all injured by the product would have cause under tort law. If a person was using the same drug and did NOT suffer any harm, that person would have "no justiciable controversy" (viz, damages) and could not file suit against the pharmaceutical company.

The question to the O.P.: do YOU have justiciable controversy on this matter? What were your "damages"?
A blow to the self-esteem - -maybe. Did this blow to your self-esteem result in any significant emotional of physical harm? In "emotional damages" suits, typically some physical consequence has to have manifested - emotional harm (without any physical consequential "damages: is too subjective to prove in a court of law.

Rode2008

JC Penney: Excuse Me Sir, "The Big & Tall Section Is Over There..."

WalkTheLine — Thu, 06 Mar 2008 22:15:27 EST

Your energy would be better spent getting into shape rather than writing a complaint letter.

WalkTheLine

JC Penney: Excuse Me Sir, "The Big & Tall Section Is Over There..."

StevieD — Thu, 06 Mar 2008 22:13:23 EST

Hey OP, you are fat.

I am fatter.

There is no way to confuse our size. When I was 210 lbs (Oh God how I wish I still was 210 lbs) I found lots of nice accessories items in what I call the big boys section.

Give yourself a few more lbs and you can join me in buying everything in the big boys section.

The employee was being kind, ask management to give the employee a raise.

StevieD

JC Penney: Excuse Me Sir, "The Big & Tall Section Is Over There..."

falc — Thu, 06 Mar 2008 21:37:09 EST

@rainmkr: i absolutly disagree about the thicker skin comment you made. the employee is totally in the wrong here. brandon said himself the employee asked him if he needed any help. brandon said no thanks. and THEN the employee made the big and tall comment. totally not necessary because you know its meant as a snide, passive aggressive attack. sorry, i have to call bullshit. the conversation should have ended after the no thanks...

falc

JC Penney: Excuse Me Sir, "The Big & Tall Section Is Over There..."

forgottenpassword — Thu, 06 Mar 2008 21:04:04 EST

@Ex_EA_Slave:

You are full of it! I am 5'7" & 216 lbs. And I have a 40 inch waist & wear between medium & large shirts comfortably (not tight). I have a small frame & never had to wear an XL anything! I shop in the regular size sections of stores. Never once have I had to go to the big & tall section for clothes.

I find it amazing how people LOVE to hate on people who are even a bit overweight (not to mention peole who are obese).

And yeah, I would complain if some floor salesman had referred me to the big & tall, because I am niether. Quite frankly I prefer to go up to them if I need help & not have them bother me while I shop.

forgottenpassword

JC Penney: Excuse Me Sir, "The Big & Tall Section Is Over There..."

TickedOff — Thu, 06 Mar 2008 20:55:46 EST

Just some suggestions to stand up against people who are nothing more than bullies. You're old enough to not take it anymore. Please do something about for next time.

The correct response to rudeness in this case would have been (in a loud, penetrating voice):

"F***-off ***-hole!" (or equivalent)

Learning a bit about "diaphram projection" is quite useful - you can make your voice seem as loud as yelling while sounding like perfectly normal speech. See, there are some benefits to being in high school glee club after all. Also good for public speaking without a mike. Only wimps and no-talents have to use a mike - even in a big auditorium, but I digress.

[en.wikipedia.org]
[au.answers.yahoo.com]

Leaning into him "Lyndon Johnson"-style can be effective too but not everyone can pull it off. President Johnson used this all the time to wrangle political deals. Do you think the guy in the first link got chance to put a word in edge-wise or ever imagined challenging Johnson against, on anything? Probably not.

[img.nytstore.com]
[www.archives.gov]

Alternatively, a long, uncomfortably silent stare with the Zen mental state of being the disappointed "Wiser Elder"/"Alpha Male" can shut down their enthusiasm pretty quick. Referring to him only as "son" can be helpful in reseting his place in the pecking order.

The key thing is that jerks like this only have power *if you give them the power* by not responding against them or by letting them control the situation. They'll just take the power like scavengers stealing a kill - that's the game of bullies.

This sounds like the Male Role Model stereotype because it is; that's what men are - it's biological and not amount of politically correct, radical feminist crap is to going to make any man's life easier in situations like this. Time to grow some. Good luck.

PS I am an ardent supporter of the spirit of feminism but I'm old enough and wise enough to not think much of, let alone tolerate, the blind dogma and orthodoxy that falsely passes for the same. Men still need to be men for the most part.

TickedOff

JC Penney: Excuse Me Sir, "The Big & Tall Section Is Over There..."

StarWhores — Thu, 06 Mar 2008 20:52:04 EST

Being about in the same size boat as the OP I'd admit I'm a fatty. He may on the other hand be more fit than I am.
An overweight person is likely going to be "sensitive" about their weight and don't need anyone rubbing their nose in it so to speak.

Besides, what ever happened to "You finding everything ok?"

StarWhores

JC Penney: Excuse Me Sir, "The Big & Tall Section Is Over There..."

kerry — Thu, 06 Mar 2008 20:50:18 EST

@Sir Winston Thriller: Absolutely Fabulous FTW!

kerry

JC Penney: Excuse Me Sir, "The Big & Tall Section Is Over There..."

purplegrog — Thu, 06 Mar 2008 20:49:11 EST

@badgeman46: Are you sure the person was not trying to be helpful? Yes, you're not the age group for juniors any more, but you might still be the size. I was in your waist size range for a very long time (a sedentary job combined with little exercise and poor diet has beefed me up to a 32" waist). I regularly had to go to juniors sections for things like belts. I wasn't terribly upset by the location. I just go where I need to go to get the goods I need.

@ everyone who says the sales person was rude. Is it really completely impossible that he wasn't trying to make the shopping experience easier for the OP? I don't think many people would be up in arms if an average size woman was shopping in the average size women's area and a sales clerk pointed her to the petite section because there might be more appropriate clothes there.

Lastly, in terms of a complaint, I think the real question would be whether the clothes the OP was looking for could be found in the "big & tall" section. If that's the case, rather than complaining about the sales clerk, one should complain to JCP corporate about the categories and clothing placement in the store.

purplegrog

JC Penney: Excuse Me Sir, "The Big & Tall Section Is Over There..."

Balisong — Thu, 06 Mar 2008 20:44:24 EST

@sophistiKate: (and everyone else who thinks this guy has no weight problem): 210 lbs at 5'11 is overweight by BMI scales. Please everyone let's quit pretending noone has weight problems in this country so everyone's poor little feelings can be spared.

Aaaaanyway, I don't think there's any reason to complain. I think this person thought they were helping, and weren't quite thinking when they said that. Perhaps they even had an "Oh crap why did I say that??" moment later. Since they don't know what the intention of the seller was, there's no reason to get the seller and/or the store in trouble.

Balisong

JC Penney: Excuse Me Sir, "The Big & Tall Section Is Over There..."

forgottenpassword — Thu, 06 Mar 2008 20:42:54 EST

floor salesmen... I really dont like them. One thing they do the most that just pisses me off is that when I tell them I am looking for an item.....instead of telling me where it is... they ask me what I am trying to do or use it for. And usually I am using it for something that it wasnt exactly designed for (I am a tinkerer who likes to find practical uses for different items). And trying to explain it to them is just a pain in the ass!

An example.... At a hardware store I wanted some electrical conduit holders so that I could use them to mount & lock a longhandled tool (like a rake) in place to keep it from being stolen. The electrical conduit holder is perfect for this as you can bolt it to a wall & put a padlock in the bolt holes at the ends .... effectively clamping & locking the tool in place.

I guess they automatically assume that I dont know what I am doing or using the "wrong tool for the job" & want to set me straight. I dont want that... I KNOW what I want... just freekin tell me where they are at!

forgottenpassword

JC Penney: Excuse Me Sir, "The Big & Tall Section Is Over There..."

Icantlikethat — Thu, 06 Mar 2008 20:41:13 EST

5'11 + 210 lbs in the U.S. = SLIM
I can get my 230lbs (on a good day) in 38's.

Icantlikethat

JC Penney: Excuse Me Sir, "The Big & Tall Section Is Over There..."

shor0814 — Thu, 06 Mar 2008 20:24:16 EST

The salesman is just clueless. Tell the manager if you really care but don't sweat it. I blame this one on complete stupidity.

I am way bigger than the OP, but the JCP big and tall stuff is usually too big for me. An intelligent salesman would have offered to be around if he had any questions and left. An intelligent salesman would also know the products they carry.

I think the salesman should be practicing his "do you want fries with that?" line, he will need it for a long time.

shor0814

JC Penney: Excuse Me Sir, "The Big & Tall Section Is Over There..."

Smashville — Thu, 06 Mar 2008 20:16:11 EST

Sidney Crosby is 5'11"/200 lbs and women fall all over him...

Smashville

JC Penney: Excuse Me Sir, "The Big & Tall Section Is Over There..."

Chase — Thu, 06 Mar 2008 19:54:31 EST

@tcp100: I am often mistaken for a woman and addressed as "Ma'am." This happens more with my longer hair, but it also happened with a very short cut. I find it flattering, as not many men have the ability to be hit on by both genders.

As for another thing said in this topic, one can control their weight. Height is an entirely different subject, as one has no control over it.

Chase

JC Penney: Excuse Me Sir, "The Big & Tall Section Is Over There..."

vermontwriter — Thu, 06 Mar 2008 19:26:17 EST

Reminds me of what happened to my former sis-in-law. Around Christmas, she went into Victoria's Secret to get a gift certificate for me. She was in a car accident a while back that left her with a broken back and laid up in bed for a number of months, so she was definitely out of shape.

When she walked in, a clerk came right up to her and told her that she may as well leave now because she'd never find anything in her size. Not only did they lose a $50 sale that day, but I stopped shopping there too.

vermontwriter

JC Penney: Excuse Me Sir, "The Big & Tall Section Is Over There..."

gruffydd — Thu, 06 Mar 2008 19:21:43 EST

Most of the comments are way more offensive than what the JCP clerk said.

gruffydd

JC Penney: Excuse Me Sir, "The Big & Tall Section Is Over There..."

forever_knight — Thu, 06 Mar 2008 19:17:09 EST

@tcp100: "INTERPRETATION: The better outcomes for cardiovascular and total mortality seen in the overweight and mildly obese groups could not be explained by adjustment for confounding factors. These findings could be explained by the lack of discriminatory power of BMI to differentiate between body fat and lean mass."

uh, so BMI isn't a great indicator. that wasn't what we were talking about. the argument was fat people don't live to 95.

forever_knight

JC Penney: Excuse Me Sir, "The Big & Tall Section Is Over There..."

forever_knight — Thu, 06 Mar 2008 19:14:40 EST

@AnnC: :)

forever_knight

JC Penney: Excuse Me Sir, "The Big & Tall Section Is Over There..."

Thorny — Thu, 06 Mar 2008 19:05:21 EST

INTENT INTENT INTENT. Some people are weird and think their unsolicited advice is actually helpful. My guess is this employee thought they would save you some time.

Thorny

JC Penney: Excuse Me Sir, "The Big & Tall Section Is Over There..."

Maulleigh — Thu, 06 Mar 2008 19:03:55 EST

Who knows what's going on. It's probably the employee's problem and not JC Penney's.

I say shrug it off. If you're not big or tall, have a laugh.

Maulleigh

JC Penney: Excuse Me Sir, "The Big & Tall Section Is Over There..."

jimconsumer — Thu, 06 Mar 2008 18:59:20 EST

I say, get over it. My wife was shopping with a friend at Victoria's Secret. A saleswoman approached her friend in the same way and said, "Our plus sizes are over there." The friend was pissed off.

But here's the thing: She's also 5'4" and 230lbs. So, you know, she was a big girl. If you don't want people bringing it up, lose the weight.

jimconsumer

JC Penney: Excuse Me Sir, "The Big & Tall Section Is Over There..."

ChuckECheese — Thu, 06 Mar 2008 18:57:11 EST

@rjhiggins: Well, if what you said was the whole story, I'd agree with you completely. However, we do have one more piece of information: his waist size (38). And we also can compare this to the silhouette of thesupreme1 who is approximately the same mass, but has different credentials. Many health researchers think the waist size:hip size ratio is the defining measurement when determining whether somebody is healthy or not. So, if you're athletic, but massive, I would expect you to nonetheless have a waist narrower than your hips, and health stats say you would be as healthy as a skinny guy. These studies show that no male would be considered truly healthy with a waist much over 34". Check out this article on the topic of waists and hips: [www.msnbc.msn.com]

ChuckECheese

JC Penney: Excuse Me Sir, "The Big & Tall Section Is Over There..."

elijah_dukes_mayonnaise — Thu, 06 Mar 2008 18:54:23 EST

@thesupreme1: muscle weighs more than fat.

elijah_dukes_mayonnaise

JC Penney: Excuse Me Sir, "The Big & Tall Section Is Over There..."

ElenorR — Thu, 06 Mar 2008 18:50:59 EST

@NardoNardo123:
How do you know that he is overweight and borderline obese? Have you met the man?

A 38" waist is not that bad and a man who is 200+ at 5'10" is pretty average.

ElenorR

JC Penney: Excuse Me Sir, "The Big & Tall Section Is Over There..."

PeggyK — Thu, 06 Mar 2008 18:43:53 EST

The whole issue of whether the shopper was fat or not is a red herring. The fact is that he told the salesperson he didn't require any assistance, who responded by essentially telling the shopper that he was in the wrong section. Not only was it rude, it was poor salesmanship, because, as it turns out, the shopper was shopping in the appropriate section for his size. And what if shopper had been shopping for his son, or dad or friend? Would all the blamers here feel the same way if he had been shopping in the young men's section and the salesperson had volunteered directions to the regular men's section?

PeggyK

JC Penney: Excuse Me Sir, "The Big & Tall Section Is Over There..."

ironchef — Thu, 06 Mar 2008 18:41:08 EST

dude, lighten up...literally.

ironchef

JC Penney: Excuse Me Sir, "The Big & Tall Section Is Over There..."

Woofer00 — Thu, 06 Mar 2008 18:31:30 EST

@ToddC: Actually, I think you can't tell when someone is overweight simply by looking at their height and weight. You might be able to judge on sight, but I'd have to point out that on the internet, noone can see you.

Woofer00

JC Penney: Excuse Me Sir, "The Big & Tall Section Is Over There..."

Cupajo — Thu, 06 Mar 2008 18:23:15 EST

@rainmkr: Saying that people need to be thicker skinned is letting assholes of the hook. No, this guy shouldn't picket and he shouldn't sue and it doesn't merit a "I'm never coming here again", but I think he has cause to call up the store manager and let him know that one of his clerks is a dickhead and will probably end up costing the store money if he doesn't change his tactics.

Cupajo

JC Penney: Excuse Me Sir, "The Big & Tall Section Is Over There..."

ananke — Thu, 06 Mar 2008 18:14:52 EST

too bad brandon didn't have the speed to come up with a flippy answer like the anecdote below, or something like "shouldn't you get back to the obnoxious a-hole section, it looks like its unmanned."

[kateharding.net]

ananke

JC Penney: Excuse Me Sir, "The Big & Tall Section Is Over There..."

ToddC — Thu, 06 Mar 2008 18:03:26 EST

Sorry.. one more followup. I don't think this guy is severely overweight. So yeah, I would complain to the store.

ToddC

JC Penney: Excuse Me Sir, "The Big & Tall Section Is Over There..."

ToddC — Thu, 06 Mar 2008 18:02:03 EST

@Woofer00: While I don't think what happened was right, please.. we can all tell when someone is fat or not. I don't need to dip someone in a pool of water to know if they are significantly overweight or not.

ToddC

JC Penney: Excuse Me Sir, "The Big & Tall Section Is Over There..."

Garbo — Thu, 06 Mar 2008 17:55:49 EST

Prejudice against obesity is the last acceptable form of bigotry. I encounter it every day, and often it is much more embarrassing and upsetting than this incident. Brandon should definitely complain, and the commenters here who perpetuate this prejudice here on Consumerist should also take note: uninvited negative comments on a person's physicality are unacceptable. Some of the comments made here angered me m ore than the incident. Go ahead, fat haters, flame me!

Garbo

JC Penney: Excuse Me Sir, "The Big & Tall Section Is Over There..."

jon-e — Thu, 06 Mar 2008 17:55:00 EST

That reminds me of the time I was shopping for a Seiko at Macy's. I was wearing short sleeves and shorts (I'm covered in tattoos). The old lady behind the counter walked up to me and said, "Our Fossil brand merchandise and the less expensive watches are in the cases over there" pointing behind us.

I just smiled and walked away. I'm a Creative Director, so I earn an above average living, so purchasing a $600 watch isn't much of a sting.

In instances like that, though, I think it's better to let it slide off your back and move on. If you feel compelled to complain (which is justified) better to make your complaint to the manager of the sales associate at that moment rather than at a later point in time. That's the only way to make a criticism stick.

jon-e

JC Penney: Excuse Me Sir, "The Big & Tall Section Is Over There..."

EmperorOfCanada — Thu, 06 Mar 2008 17:51:13 EST

@masonreloaded

As a fat mess I take offense to the fact that you imply there is something wrong with weighing 400lbs. Just more of me to love honey.

EmperorOfCanada

JC Penney: Excuse Me Sir, "The Big & Tall Section Is Over There..."

maztec — Thu, 06 Mar 2008 17:50:14 EST

No point, was just a stupid kid. Grow a thicker skin. Laugh it off. Turn it around on them, pass it back as a joke. Schoolyard tricks that we learned years ago. use them, they really do get you somewhere - there were lessons there. Better than punching someone, better than crying to the teacher.

Now, if it was a manager - you have a store-wide issue, rather than an idiot kid.

maztec

JC Penney: Excuse Me Sir, "The Big & Tall Section Is Over There..."

quieterhue — Thu, 06 Mar 2008 17:49:05 EST

Look, it's common courtesy not to imply in public that a stranger is fat--regardless of whether it's true or not. It's one thing if the customer asks where the big and tall section is, but this guy actually told the salesperson he did not need help. Why would the salesperson offer that sort of potentially insulting information unsolicited? Even if this guy was fat, what if he was shopping for someone else?

I would send JC Penny a note and recommend that they send their employees to Miss Manners academy.

quieterhue

JC Penney: Excuse Me Sir, "The Big & Tall Section Is Over There..."

SaraAB87 — Thu, 06 Mar 2008 17:48:05 EST

I don't think this person is fat at all. We have become too obsessed with even a person who is 10lbs overweight, but I am betting this person doesn't even look the least bit fat. 215 is NOT a lot for a guy to weigh.

This was totally rude and uncalled for and very embarrasing for the person shopping. They should have at least assumed that he was buying a gift for someone else and left him alone. Don't these stores know that gift giving buyers spend the most money in their stores!

SaraAB87

JC Penney: Excuse Me Sir, "The Big & Tall Section Is Over There..."

stuartny — Thu, 06 Mar 2008 17:46:34 EST

Was maybe your zipper open at the time?

stuartny

JC Penney: Excuse Me Sir, "The Big & Tall Section Is Over There..."

Woofer00 — Thu, 06 Mar 2008 17:43:08 EST

I know this is a tangent off the original post's purpose, but it's relevant to the "informed" consumerists responding on this thread.

Here's an interesting tidbit at 5'7", 195:
According to the BMI scale, I'm obese (~30).
According to an impedance scale, I'm on the heavy side of average (~16.5%)
According to the last few caliper tests performed on me, I'm pushing toward the athletic side of average (~15%).

Waist ~33, wear a medium-large, gym multiple times per week.

Your number and tests mean nothing. Aside from submersion methods, few if any tests are remotely accurate. Height/weight calculations take into account little to none of the body's composition. Impedance meters are flawed for a number of reasons, including hydration, localized effect (through only upper or lower body, never the entire system, and miss the entire stomache region). Caliper exams are topical only (surface/skinfat). Aside from total submersion or x-ray methods, you can't really know for sure.

It seems consumerism is the only thing many people are informed on. Perhaps this thread should focus on the consumer issue, which is poor sales service and rudeness.

Woofer00

JC Penney: Excuse Me Sir, "The Big & Tall Section Is Over There..."

HeyThereKiller — Thu, 06 Mar 2008 17:35:00 EST

@rainmkr: or just thinner folks

HeyThereKiller

JC Penney: Excuse Me Sir, "The Big & Tall Section Is Over There..."

thesupreme1 — Thu, 06 Mar 2008 17:29:12 EST

@picshereplz:

Sorry, but I am very seriously wondering how he can be a 38" and weigh almost exactly the same as me and be slightly taller. I always thought BMI was skewed, it doesn't take into account enough variables IMO.

thesupreme1

JC Penney: Excuse Me Sir, "The Big & Tall Section Is Over There..."

reznicek111 — Thu, 06 Mar 2008 17:27:14 EST

C'mon, admit it ... the JCPenney dude was inappropriate. Think of this somewhat similar scenario and the poo-storm that might follow: salesperson asks random somewhat overweight female clothes shopper, "can I help you find anything?"

"No thanks, I'm fine."

"No problem. By the way, the maternity section is over there."

Unless shoppers specifically ask for help, it's inappropriate to offer where to find deodorant, acne medication, mouthwash...you get the idea.

reznicek111

JC Penney: Excuse Me Sir, "The Big & Tall Section Is Over There..."

rjhiggins — Thu, 06 Mar 2008 17:22:33 EST

@ChuckECheese: I just picked a quick example; as you point out it would be easy (but unnecessary) to find a whole lot more.

My point is simply that the people who are so quick to call this man obese and thus obviously deserving of the salesman's rudeness -- knowing nothing more than his height and weight -- are judgmental fools.

rjhiggins

JC Penney: Excuse Me Sir, "The Big & Tall Section Is Over There..."

tcp100 — Thu, 06 Mar 2008 17:18:26 EST

@thesupreme1: Umm, I think you just proved that the BMI and raw weight measurements mean very little when judging someone's overall shape and health?

People of a given height and weight can, and will, vary DRAMATICALLY in health, size, and shape... Yet, they'll all have the exact same BMI.

Yet people still use that dumb number to put a be-all end-all gauge on your health.

tcp100

JC Penney: Excuse Me Sir, "The Big & Tall Section Is Over There..."

hate2brippedoff — Thu, 06 Mar 2008 17:16:01 EST

Yes, Brandon has a very valid reason to complain. JCP has always erred on the side of tact. When I worked at a JCP store in a town of 1,500 I was warned to treat the cross dressers just like any other customer if a man wanted to try on ladies lingerie, they could.

I just got gently guided out of the ladies "queen size" area when I was inqiring if a certain style would be back in. It was for a family member who does buy from that department, but the clerk had the best intentions.

It's all a matter of attitude on the part of the customer and the employee. I didn't get the impression the employee was being very tactful.

hate2brippedoff

JC Penney: Excuse Me Sir, "The Big & Tall Section Is Over There..."

picshereplz — Thu, 06 Mar 2008 17:15:56 EST

@thesupreme1: Way to show off, show-off! :)

picshereplz

JC Penney: Excuse Me Sir, "The Big & Tall Section Is Over There..."

SomeoneGNU — Thu, 06 Mar 2008 17:15:31 EST

@picshereplz:

But having thicker skin is so boring. Why can't we just beat on our chest about how JC Penney's hates fat people and threaten to never shop there again(which only lasts until their next sale, but then again, who needs principles).

I'm not calling the guy fat, not saying the sales associate wasn't wrong, but is this really that big of an issue?

SomeoneGNU

JC Penney: Excuse Me Sir, "The Big & Tall Section Is Over There..."

thesupreme1 — Thu, 06 Mar 2008 17:15:14 EST

"I am 5'11 and 210 lbs... I wear a large and a 38 waist"

I'm 5'10 1/2" I weigh 200-205, and I'm a size 32 and can squeeze into a 31...

I want to know what is going on here, I know I lift weights but this is a pretty big difference.

thesupreme1

JC Penney: Excuse Me Sir, "The Big & Tall Section Is Over There..."

picshereplz — Thu, 06 Mar 2008 17:10:19 EST

C'mon guys. Thicker skin is in order.

picshereplz

JC Penney: Excuse Me Sir, "The Big & Tall Section Is Over There..."

tcp100 — Thu, 06 Mar 2008 17:09:19 EST

@Vilgrom: I think that would be the best course of action though, but you always think of the best response when it's too late.

You know, that perfect ascerbic snarky comeback that comes to you 90 seconds after you had the chance.

tcp100

JC Penney: Excuse Me Sir, "The Big & Tall Section Is Over There..."

ChuckECheese — Thu, 06 Mar 2008 17:08:40 EST

@rjhiggins: A lot of football players look like lycra-wrapped spam bombs, despite your single example--is he related to you? It is well known that athletes can be large without being fat. It is also known that some skinny people are fat despite not looking so. But this is really beside the point. I imagine our Brandon would have taken the time to defend himself (and gain some sports cred) by telling us about his athleticism, had he any--you know, a boilerplate history of highschool football OT-ing, or heavyweight-class wrestling in college. Have you ever known somebody who has been an athlete who won't tell you so at any opportunity? Methinks Brandon's "shock" is derived from his embarrassment that he spent too much time wondering if the salesperson were right to defend himself in the moment.

ChuckECheese

JC Penney: Excuse Me Sir, "The Big & Tall Section Is Over There..."

Vilgrom — Thu, 06 Mar 2008 17:07:17 EST

This sounds like something that's best dealt with immediately..

You either get confrontational or you forget all about it. If I was to keep my senses in a situation like that, I would say something to make the salesperson extremely uncomfortable and just as embarrassed.

Vilgrom

JC Penney: Excuse Me Sir, "The Big & Tall Section Is Over There..."

tcp100 — Thu, 06 Mar 2008 16:59:34 EST

@Lo-Pan: Well you and I are in total agreement on the BMI.

Seems that's all any "health" article talks about these days, however.

But, like I said - and this especially goes for the media (there's another thing I could have a schizo rant about like the earlier post where I lost my cool) - if it's easy, that's what they'll use.

tcp100

JC Penney: Excuse Me Sir, "The Big & Tall Section Is Over There..."

unklegwar — Thu, 06 Mar 2008 16:57:37 EST

Shrug it off and don't be such a whiny pansy. If you don't like the way you were treated, don't shop there anymore. That's the appropriate way to protest. Letters to consumerist and to the store? Maybe he should have pointed you to ruffled skirts and training bras.

unklegwar

JC Penney: Excuse Me Sir, "The Big & Tall Section Is Over There..."

normanm4 — Thu, 06 Mar 2008 16:56:21 EST

the staff person is an ass, but the complainant is whining.

normanm4

JC Penney: Excuse Me Sir, "The Big & Tall Section Is Over There..."

tcp100 — Thu, 06 Mar 2008 16:55:44 EST

@Lo-Pan: And that may represent a good part of the population, but I also know overweight people who have been struggling and trying for years, and it just doesn't work for them.

A lot of the time the jokes are to beat someone to the punch - a buddy of mine who's unfortunately on the ugly side of things does that all the time, and I always feel bad about it - but it's certainly a defense mechanism. Kinda a "Look, OK? I know I'm this or that, just leave me alone."

I guess I'm angry because I personally have been through the dieting and working out til I injure myself roller coaster, and my body just won't get me down to "skinny". Will never happen. Blood pressure's fine, cholesterol is fine, and I can be perfectly active - but it just doesn't work as far as raw pounds go.

I work out regularly to maintain health - not for aesthetics. And according to my doctor and how I feel, I am perfectly healthy, regardless of what the BMI says.

Then you have skinny folks tell you to drop the McDonalds (have been thre maybe 3 times in 8 years, and it's just that easy.. Sure.. They also look at you in disgust if they see you eating anything but a green salad.

Personally I was a bit vindicated when I was able to beat my gym rat friend in a quick sprint, but most people don't go past initial glances... Which is exactly what happened to this OP.. He was sized up, considered past a limit, and considered fair fame for rudeness, IMHO.

tcp100

JC Penney: Excuse Me Sir, "The Big & Tall Section Is Over There..."

erratapage — Thu, 06 Mar 2008 16:53:04 EST

What does obesity have to do with size, anyway? The guy wears a 38... you get those in the regular men's department. If the clerk can't identify a size from looking at someone, he should hang up his pricegun and go work at MickyD's.

erratapage

JC Penney: Excuse Me Sir, "The Big & Tall Section Is Over There..."

Lo-Pan — Thu, 06 Mar 2008 16:52:59 EST

@rjhiggins: That's why BMI is the dumbest thing that ever happened. it means nothing.
what about a guy that isn't in the same shape, but weighs the same...holy shit they have the same BMI. the weight means nothing, why don't people get that. It's the actual body fat and the shape your in that make you John Candy or Robert James.

Also Robert there probably has a smaller waist than the OP. and may need shirts from the B&T section for his shoulders and neck.

Lo-Pan

JC Penney: Excuse Me Sir, "The Big & Tall Section Is Over There..."

masonreloaded — Thu, 06 Mar 2008 16:49:48 EST

My final comment, as this thread is kind of getting pointless and annoying. I am (I would guess) about the same size as this guy, inch or two taller, about 5lbs heavier.

Am I a little heavier than I want to be? Yes.

Could I do more to lose weight? Yes.

Am I a little sensitive about it? Sometimes.

Do I need to shop in the Big & Tall section? Absolutely not.

I would be taken aback to be told I should be - just the same as if a waiter told me "maybe you should try the low fat version?" or "you sure you don't want diet soda instead?"

masonreloaded

JC Penney: Excuse Me Sir, "The Big & Tall Section Is Over There..."

rjhiggins — Thu, 06 Mar 2008 16:49:13 EST

To all of you who are judging this gentleman based on his height/weight: Can you image how obese a guy must be if he's 5-11, 219 pounds? Get him to a gym, right?

Check out this NFL draft prospect:

Name: Robert James
College: Arizona State
Height: 5-11 Weight: 219
Position: OLB
40-yard-dash time: 4.64
Bench presses (225 pounds): 22
BMI: 30.5 (OBESE!!!!)

Anyone out there want to tell him to his face he's obese?

rjhiggins

JC Penney: Excuse Me Sir, "The Big & Tall Section Is Over There..."

AMetamorphosis — Thu, 06 Mar 2008 16:46:33 EST

I had an experience with a rude salesperson @ JCP's about 2 years ago. I did not blow up but I simply stated that I wanted to speak with the service person's manager. I KINDLY told her that her salesperson was out of line and needed to be talked to.

Not to be unkind, but I think this guy is either trying to use this as a means to a gift card.

The truth of the matter is the salesperson probably was trying to help you find clothes that would fit.

If your that offended, perhaps its due to your weight.

AMetamorphosis

JC Penney: Excuse Me Sir, "The Big & Tall Section Is Over There..."

Lo-Pan — Thu, 06 Mar 2008 16:45:51 EST

@tcp100: Nobody that's making fun of them cares, that much we certainly agree on.

I have some owerweight and obese friends. And I don't joke about it...they do though, I guess trying to beat people to the punch. I just wish they would at least try to do something about it if it bothers them so much. And, yes, I do know that in at least three of the cases I know they haven't tried.

Lo-Pan

JC Penney: Excuse Me Sir, "The Big & Tall Section Is Over There..."

Diet-Orange-Soda — Thu, 06 Mar 2008 16:45:03 EST

@masonreloaded: That just sounds oversensitive to me.

Diet-Orange-Soda

JC Penney: Excuse Me Sir, "The Big & Tall Section Is Over There..."

acasto — Thu, 06 Mar 2008 16:43:51 EST

It really has nothing to do with J.C. Penny's, but rather the fact our society is full of idiots. My wife actually works in the jewelry department at J.C. Penny's, and has had customers do this to her. Just the other day she had a women say she was looking for a necklace for a friend who was big, then looked at my wife and said, "big, like you, can you try this on?"...

acasto

JC Penney: Excuse Me Sir, "The Big & Tall Section Is Over There..."

ChuckECheese — Thu, 06 Mar 2008 16:43:27 EST

@tcp100: There's a story on AP today that the German Army is more out of shape than German civilians, and that about 70% of German soldiers smoke: [www.telegraph.co.uk]

ChuckECheese

JC Penney: Excuse Me Sir, "The Big & Tall Section Is Over There..."

mjsager — Thu, 06 Mar 2008 16:39:14 EST

@rainmkr:
SRSLY

mjsager

JC Penney: Excuse Me Sir, "The Big & Tall Section Is Over There..."

Manok — Thu, 06 Mar 2008 16:38:53 EST

at least he didn't call you a cheeseburger locker.

Manok

JC Penney: Excuse Me Sir, "The Big & Tall Section Is Over There..."

urban_ninjya — Thu, 06 Mar 2008 16:37:56 EST

@rjhiggins: Ooo.. getting personal here. I guess I sort of started by calling the guy fat. Oh well, I'm probably a big bigot myself.

From my point of view, all he said was where the big and tall section is. It doesn't communicate the tone it was said in, and all the nuances that can determine the real meaning. I assume the tone was casual in the same tone he asked, "can I help you." To one person, "Big and tall section over there.", might go, "Thanks.", in another case feel offended. It really is more of a personal interpretation.

2nd. When he said another customer mouthed something. I assume he's listening to his own internal dialog. Does the guy read lips? Maybe, short sentences like "I love you", are recognizeable. My assumption is his personal interpertation is a reflection if his internal state of mind.

3rd.. Why is he even asking if he should complain? That is seeking external validation for his reaction. Does he need permission to complain? He's seeking external approval for self assurance. A self assured person would of either ignored the comment, or just voice their opinion right there to the person, "I think what you said was offensive. And here's why..." Telling a manager via complains behind his back won't help the guy. It'll only piss people off and not constructive by any means. If he was accidentally rude to the customer, knowing up front so he can correct himself, apologize, etc... is more helpful than going behind his back. Frankly, I think people won't don't take their issues with those involved first, don't deserve to bitch about it later.

urban_ninjya

JC Penney: Excuse Me Sir, "The Big & Tall Section Is Over There..."

tcp100 — Thu, 06 Mar 2008 16:36:40 EST

@Lo-Pan: Fine, you're right, I did rant. I acknowledge that. I didn't mean to lash out at you in particular.

The reason I ranted is that it doesn't seem to matter what anyone says about this issue, basically it's considered OK to demean people for their weight, most of the time people saying it's because of health reasons.. Which I find interesting..

Really, people make fun of fat people, because they just care so much? Please.

tcp100

JC Penney: Excuse Me Sir, "The Big & Tall Section Is Over There..."

DrGirlfriend — Thu, 06 Mar 2008 16:34:05 EST

I would consider talking to the store manager just to let him/her know that what the clerk said was inappropriate. Not making a big deal out of it, just to offer up a training opportunity. Regardless of whether or not the OP is fat, the implication was made that he was. And last I checked, someone insinuating you should be looking in the section of the store meant for larger folks does not constitute a pleasant shopping experience. The OP could have been in that section of the store in order to shop for a gift for someone else who did not fall under B and/or T.

DrGirlfriend

JC Penney: Excuse Me Sir, "The Big & Tall Section Is Over There..."

tcp100 — Thu, 06 Mar 2008 16:33:49 EST

@forever_knight: Knock yourself out:

[www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov]

tcp100

JC Penney: Excuse Me Sir, "The Big & Tall Section Is Over There..."

ChuckECheese — Thu, 06 Mar 2008 16:33:37 EST

Here goes: I think there's a reverse-overweight stigma developing in this country. Through various means, people are trying to normalize being overweight, and attack anybody who says otherwise. I lost a friend two weeks ago, because, as an overweight diabetic who was warned recently that she would have to inject insulin if she could not get her blood sugar under control, I wondered out loud why she had to get the large Blizzard at DQ--wouldn't a smaller size be enjoyable also without causing her feet to turn blue? I was actually caring for my friend, whose health is in the crapper. Mix-ins aren't going to make her feel better. It's amazing that somebody would rather take offense and/or dump a friend than accept the obvious.

In Brandon's defense, JCP's salesperson wasn't caring. It would be possible in the context of good customer service, to direct Brandon to anyplace at all, with the enthusiastic promise of discovering some good-looking, well-fitting clothes. No need to discuss BMIs (Brandon's is 29.3).

Back in the good ol' days, if somebody was rude enough to point out one of your flaws, you had enough sense, after you removed your hand from your face, to recognize it as a potential self-improvement opportunity. Now we only improve if we have an ankle monitor and a probation officer. If you ain't right, ain't nobody gonna love you like you are 'cept your momma.

ChuckECheese

JC Penney: Excuse Me Sir, "The Big & Tall Section Is Over There..."

tcp100 — Thu, 06 Mar 2008 16:32:21 EST

@Trai_Dep: Every time I leave the US, I'm floored at how many people still smoke, particularly in France and other parts of Europe.

The US does not have the market cornered on unhealthy habits, as popular as it is these days to label America as such.

tcp100

JC Penney: Excuse Me Sir, "The Big & Tall Section Is Over There..."

buzzybuzzy — Thu, 06 Mar 2008 16:31:45 EST

Even if the sales guy was justified in pointing out the Big & Tall section (which he wasn't), how did he know that Brandon was even buying the items for himself and not as a gift.

The only situation in which he would have been justified in pointing out the Big & Tall section is if he were asked where it was or if the pants in question came in bigger sizes than were on that rack. The conversation should have gone like this:

Sales Guy: Good afternoon, Sir. Do you need an assistance?

Brandon: No, thank you.

Sales Guy: OK - well, if you should, just ask. Have a nice day.

End of story.

buzzybuzzy

JC Penney: Excuse Me Sir, "The Big & Tall Section Is Over There..."

Lo-Pan — Thu, 06 Mar 2008 16:31:39 EST

@tcp100: Um, I never called the guy a slob. or you, I asked how big you were thinking that maybe you were so pissed because you were this guy's size and bothered by people calling him a fatty. Read my comments on this post. The worst I have said about young brandon is that he ain't tiny and he ain't a fat fuck. I said a 38" waist is a bit big, this may have been an insensitive way to say it (to you at least not to me because i think brandon knows he's not a little guy) if it was I apologize to the OP.

I just think you're getting so angry that nobody is going to even consider what you are saying because of the ranting, everybody's against us nature of your posts. It actually got me a bit angry, because according to you I'm a superficial asshole because i'm on the thin side of things. same as saying big guys are all lazy dude.

Lo-Pan

JC Penney: Excuse Me Sir, "The Big & Tall Section Is Over There..."

CumaeanSibyl — Thu, 06 Mar 2008 16:30:35 EST

This is the same problem that the other customer had with the clerk who told her to get a breast reduction. Employees should not offer unsolicited advice. Yes, of course, they're there to be helpful; however, as complete strangers, they're not in a position to know what advice might be useful to a customer, what might be useless, and what might be inappropriate or hurtful. The only way they can know is if the customer tells them, so they should listen to the customer's stated needs instead of wasting time and courting trouble with assumptions.

I would talk to the store's manager, because that employee needs someone to tell him that making such assumptions is a horrible idea. Brandon obviously isn't a vindictive person, but another man might make a scene, call corporate, and demand the employee's job on a platter -- and he might get it, too.

CumaeanSibyl

JC Penney: Excuse Me Sir, "The Big & Tall Section Is Over There..."

forever_knight — Thu, 06 Mar 2008 16:30:25 EST

@tcp100: 1. your grandmother is anecdotal bullshit. if you are "calling" me on mine why provide yours? how about some studies instead? i would love to read them, even if i'm completely wrong.

2. "everyone loses body mass with age" does not support your claim or refute mine. most likely, people lose body mass at the same rate.

3. yes, there are skinny people out there that are more unhealthy than overweight folk. these people are most likely the exceptions and not the rules. i'm not claiming that some skinnies aren't more unhealthy than some fatties.

4. i don't have to look at fat people if i don't want to. i'm more bothered by the fact that fat people don't seem to give a rats ass about their lives. they take it for granted and some even defend fattness as if its some great quality we should all strive for.

5. you have a point. fat people may actually cost less for healthcare, since they won't live long enough to need the most expensive kind. they are more likely to die of a massive heart attack in their 40s or 50s.

forever_knight

JC Penney: Excuse Me Sir, "The Big & Tall Section Is Over There..."

elijah_dukes_mayonnaise — Thu, 06 Mar 2008 16:25:01 EST

Time for some fen-phen....

elijah_dukes_mayonnaise

JC Penney: Excuse Me Sir, "The Big & Tall Section Is Over There..."

Carencey — Thu, 06 Mar 2008 16:24:56 EST

The salesperson was probably trying to help and just has an astonishingly low EQ. However, if someone is in clothing sales, having at least a little bit of tact is part of the job (as opposed to commenting on a blog, where it is generally considered a liability). The OP should stop by and just let the manager know what happened. You probably shouldn't expect anything more than an "I'm sorry, thanks for letting me know", but it's a perfectly legitimate thing to comment on. Now if the OP was to sue for pain and suffering or demand that the salesperson be fired, that would be a response for Ben's book, but a minor comment to management about a minor incident isn't out of line at all.

@mac-phisto:
LOL, that's why I like shopping at H & M -- they haven't inflated their women's sizes to a ridiculous degree like most of the other mass market clothing stores, so I can actually find stuff my size there.

Carencey

JC Penney: Excuse Me Sir, "The Big & Tall Section Is Over There..."

AnnC — Thu, 06 Mar 2008 16:23:22 EST

@forever_knight: That used to be true. They would die early because they were hunted for their meat and blubber. Now they're a protected species and their populations are thriving.

AnnC

JC Penney: Excuse Me Sir, "The Big & Tall Section Is Over There..."

tcp100 — Thu, 06 Mar 2008 16:22:31 EST

@backbroken: People who don't fit into average archetypes have a hard enough time shopping for clothes; nevermind when the help decides to add fuel to the fire.

I'll leave a car dealership if they misjudge my income and ability to buy a car (happened last time I bought one, actually. Ever try and walk into a decent dealership wearing jeans and being under 30? Good luck.)

The point is that the clerk was rude, and service people should not be rude to customers, period - even if they are fat.

tcp100

JC Penney: Excuse Me Sir, "The Big & Tall Section Is Over There..."

Trai_Dep — Thu, 06 Mar 2008 16:21:48 EST

Although, every time I leave the country and return to the US, I'm floored by how obese typical Americans are. We are (the greater, the further you're from the coasts?) a nation of unhealthy overweight people. Less Freedom Fries, people!

Trai_Dep

JC Penney: Excuse Me Sir, "The Big & Tall Section Is Over There..."

tcp100 — Thu, 06 Mar 2008 16:20:10 EST

@Lo-Pan: I'm 5'9 190, so about the same range as him. Again with the "wow, you must be HUGE to be so mad" argument?

I'm mad because of people like you. I work out absolutely regular, and can run a six minute mile. I mountain bike and cross country ski. I will never be 120 lbs, and I'm sick of folks like you who assume that someone who isn't tiny is a lazy, slovenly slob.

So yes, I'm angry. And you underscored exactly why.

tcp100

JC Penney: Excuse Me Sir, "The Big & Tall Section Is Over There..."

BlazerUnit — Thu, 06 Mar 2008 16:18:49 EST

I'm note really sure what all the fuss about Brandon's body is. The salesman made an assumption he/she really had no business making.

BlazerUnit

JC Penney: Excuse Me Sir, "The Big & Tall Section Is Over There..."

backbroken — Thu, 06 Mar 2008 16:17:39 EST

@tcp100: Well clearly I would be greatly offended because being a female is a terrible, terrible thing.

Honestly, I'd be a bit bemused. The clerk is the one who should be embarrassed. Why would I be embarrassed about someone else's mistake? Help me on this one.

backbroken

JC Penney: Excuse Me Sir, "The Big & Tall Section Is Over There..."

Lo-Pan — Thu, 06 Mar 2008 16:16:56 EST

@tcp100: I hate to do this, but the anger in you made it happen. How fat are you to be so pissed at skinny and average weight people? And some weight lifting or jogging can be a great/healthy way to vent this frustration.

I'm against all the people calling htis guy fatty and obese too and I agree that the BMI is crap, but damn man chill.

Lo-Pan

JC Penney: Excuse Me Sir, "The Big & Tall Section Is Over There..."

tcp100 — Thu, 06 Mar 2008 16:16:48 EST

@anonymouscoworker: Unfortunately according to the BMI, he is overweight.

The problem is, however, is that the BMI is a stupid scale:

"The medical establishment has generally acknowledged some shortcomings of BMI.[11] Because the BMI is dependent only upon net weight and height, it makes simplistic assumptions about distribution of muscle and bone mass, and thus may overestimate adiposity on those with more lean body mass (e.g. athletes) while underestimating adiposity on those with less lean body mass (e.g. the elderly).

In fact, some argue that the error in the BMI is significant and so pervasive that it is not generally useful in evaluation of health.[12] Due to these limitations, body composition for athletes is often better calculated using measures of body fat, as determined by such techniques as skinfold measurements or underwater weighing. However, recent studies of American football linemen, who undergo intensive weight training to make their muscles extremely large, show that they frequently suffer many of the same problems as people ordinarily considered obese, notably sleep apnea[13][14].

In an analysis of 40 studies involving 250,000 people, heart patients with normal BMIs were at higher risk of death from cardiovascular disease than people whose BMIs put them in the "overweight" range (BMI 25-29.9).[15]
"

tcp100

JC Penney: Excuse Me Sir, "The Big & Tall Section Is Over There..."

BlazerUnit — Thu, 06 Mar 2008 16:16:45 EST

The J.C. Penney salesman may have intended to be helpful without an ounce of malice in his suggestion. But he/she still made one tremendously inappropriate assumption.

Just based upon seeing Brandon's browsing, how could the salesman know that he was shopping for himself? For all he probably observed, he may have been shopping for a gift or on someone's behalf.

I don't think it would be out of line to POLITELY have management make a note of this--the salesman could be new and making this mistake with other customers.

BlazerUnit

JC Penney: Excuse Me Sir, "The Big & Tall Section Is Over There..."

sarabadara — Thu, 06 Mar 2008 16:15:15 EST

My friend was browsing in Hollister (blech!) with her daughter and an associate told her (the not-by-any-means large 13 year-old girl) that "we don't sell anything in your size." If I hadn't moved 700 miles away, I think I'd go in there and slap her in the mouth.

sarabadara

JC Penney: Excuse Me Sir, "The Big & Tall Section Is Over There..."

Trai_Dep — Thu, 06 Mar 2008 16:15:03 EST

Of COURSE the clerk should have promptly apologized.

Followed by, "But isn't it too early to be wearing a Halloween mask?"

Trai_Dep

JC Penney: Excuse Me Sir, "The Big & Tall Section Is Over There..."

Joafu — Thu, 06 Mar 2008 16:14:21 EST

@masonreloaded: Smallest in B&T is 42, regular pant sizes go from 26-42 waist(44 for some brands). Website is different from the store. All the worker suggested was area, not that the customer was fat, maybe a little bit bigger but not fat; the worker was trying to be helpful. Shrug it off.

Joafu

JC Penney: Excuse Me Sir, "The Big & Tall Section Is Over There..."

anonymouscoworker — Thu, 06 Mar 2008 16:14:18 EST

@NardoNardo123:
Technically, you're an idiot. He's not overweight, and definitely not borderline obese. Learn how to use the internet. BMI Calculator

@urban_ninjya: "Way past the obese scale"? Really? You must need to learn how to use the internet too. BMI Calculator

It's funny how easy it is to talk smack when your facts are completely wrong.

anonymouscoworker

JC Penney: Excuse Me Sir, "The Big & Tall Section Is Over There..."

tcp100 — Thu, 06 Mar 2008 16:13:39 EST

How would some of you skinny guys feel if the same thing happened to you, but the clerk said "You could try the misses department."

tcp100

JC Penney: Excuse Me Sir, "The Big & Tall Section Is Over There..."

bohemian — Thu, 06 Mar 2008 16:12:46 EST

If I was in Lerner and the store clerk tried to direct me to Lane Bryant (I'm a sz 10) a few doors down, she would get a hearty fuck off before I left.

I was in the Frederick's at the local mall looking for a bra. Since sizes are never the same I took a few to try on. As I was heading to the fitting rooms a middle aged guy in a suit was exiting with a bunch of hangers with extra large sized women's lingerie. He was the only person in the fitting rooms. The clerk asking him what ones he was taking today and rang him up. She treated him like any other customer and was polite and helpful. That would be what you call customer service.

bohemian

JC Penney: Excuse Me Sir, "The Big & Tall Section Is Over There..."

backbroken — Thu, 06 Mar 2008 16:12:08 EST

@rjhiggins: Well, I'm not trying to say that there isn't a weight stigma in this country.

All I am saying is that someone telling you where the Big and Tall section is, is a far cry from being stigmatized for your weight. And the suggestion that the OP was offended enough about it to raise a stink is only perpetuating the stigmatization.

Sorry for all the posts. Just feeling the flow.

backbroken

JC Penney: Excuse Me Sir, "The Big & Tall Section Is Over There..."

geeniusatwrok — Thu, 06 Mar 2008 16:12:07 EST

one response would be "hey, I bet you'd know where the fuckwit section is too" or something before throwing the merch at him and walking out.

jesus. grow a fucking pair, Brandon.

geeniusatwrok

JC Penney: Excuse Me Sir, "The Big & Tall Section Is Over There..."

Trust me, I'm a doctor — Thu, 06 Mar 2008 16:11:38 EST

The sales persons comment doesn't make you fat. Being 5'11", 210lbs, makes you fat. I was 6', 210lbs, in high school and yes, I was chubby. There is no way possible he should be wearing a L shirt. XL at the minimum.

Trust me, I'm a doctor

JC Penney: Excuse Me Sir, "The Big & Tall Section Is Over There..."

tcp100 — Thu, 06 Mar 2008 16:10:20 EST

@forever_knight: That is anectdotal bullshit.

My grandmother is 89, and she has never been a petite flower. Stop trying to shove bullshit stories around to prove a point that is not true.

Self-righteous skinny people love to pull out the "lol, you never see skinny old people!" as if it's some morsel of wisdom and truth.

Hey, guess what, everybody, even animals, lose body mass as they get older. Even if your little anectdote was true (it isn't), that doesn't mean its because anyone who isn't stick-thin is on a rail towards a cardiac arrest at 45. It just isn't true.

Being "morbidly obese" is unhealthy, but there are plenty of skinny people running around with cholesterol and blood pressure higher than your average guy with a 38 inch waist.

So, again, nice try, but it all comes down to the fact that people like you don't like people who are bigger than you purely for superficial reasons, and enjoy prodding them because it makes you feel superior.

Think about this.. If fat people die earlier, than they don't need geriatric care into long old age, do they, huh? So much for that societal cost argument. Using your logic, medicare's about to be overburdened as nursing homes start bulging at the seams with skinny centegenarians that simply refuse to die.

tcp100

JC Penney: Excuse Me Sir, "The Big & Tall Section Is Over There..."

trujunglist — Thu, 06 Mar 2008 16:10:16 EST

Listen, you can't just stand around looking all shocked and embarrassed, you have to ACT people. If someone insults you, whether intentional or not, you should come up with something to say back to them, even if it takes a second and you have to yell at them from like 10 feet away.
In this case, I probably would've yelled something really stupid like:

WELL THE JERK AND ASSHOLE SECTION IS OVER THERE, YOU MUST BE LOST

trujunglist

JC Penney: Excuse Me Sir, "The Big & Tall Section Is Over There..."

UpsetPanda — Thu, 06 Mar 2008 16:06:28 EST

My mom regularly went shopping in high end boutiques like Chanel wearing track suits. She was comfy and she didn't care what they thought of her. But if they ever voiced any rudeness to her, she'd tell them they lost a good sale and would leave. No one, no matter wha t they wear into the store, should be treated with rudeness - it doesn't matter whether it's Brooks Brothers or Wal-Mart.

UpsetPanda

JC Penney: Excuse Me Sir, "The Big & Tall Section Is Over There..."

onestep — Thu, 06 Mar 2008 16:06:12 EST

Absolutely not. More than likely, the associate thought they were being helpful. Did they make the remark in an condescending way? If not, maybe you just took it personal because you feel a little overweight and it touched a nerve.

onestep