Hey man, I hate to say this, but as a VERY frequent traveler (4 flights per week), I agree about 90% of the time about older/elderly people in security line.

Now, some elderly people can't move as fast as the rest of us, and so there is no reason to be mad at that particular group. One day, we all end up there, and I try to help them through the line. But they're not the group I'm referring too.

No, I'm referring to the 60-somethings that are perfect abled, obviously retired and going somewhere on vacation, and they'll be damned if they actually attempt to move through the security line in any type of quick fashion. I think it's the attitude of "I just don't care that I'm holding this line up" that gets me. I sit there behind them, with my laptop out, my one little valece carry-on, my shoes off, NO change in my pockets (it's always left at home on travel days), and my 3.5 ounce bottles or less fit into a nice little plastic bag. They move at a snail's pace, obliviously to the hundred people waiting behind them.

Quite simply, I understand the rules, and so should everyone else who has flown in the last 8 years. I'm not a fan of the extra work, but when you get down to it, the inconvenience is pretty minor if you simply plan ahead slightly. Besides that fact that you should know BEFORE you get to the airport (Hey kids, there's this cool thing called the Internet! It tells you anything you want to know, like what you can bring in a carry-on!), this information is usually presented in multiple fashion:

a) Via written sign before you enter the checkpoint line, in multiple languages
b) Made via pre-recorded announcement
c) Made via announcement by an actual TSA rep standing at the front of the line

Does actually knowing this information make me "too important" to fly, Wobudong? That attitude of sweet ignorance is no longer acceptable in today's travel world. Don't exempt older people as "wiser" - in my experience, they think it's still 1970, so they can haul 5 or 6 bags onboard and bring full size bottles of anything, and make a big stink about not being able to carry on a 6 inch knife (True story! Happened on my way to Iowa from JFK a few weeks back).

Look, if there were any way to make this system truly work, that would be great. However, like many other posters today, I just don't see it happening.

Like the rest of my fellow frequent fliers, I will sit there silently waiting for the day when the American public finally realizes that the rules have changed, and we can all smooth over the process by simply being prepared for a trip to the airport.

mattfour

BenP

walk briskly and frown a lot...

...and appear to be talking to themselves.

RandomHookup

celestebai

MisterE

I am not sure why people fear this...seems rather odd. Something done to increase efficiency is being demonized without much rationale (if any). Gee, why would we want to speed up the process at the security area for those of us who are not travelling with 4 kids, each with a back pack, shoes, coats, etc.

Why would someone with a family be offended? For the aforementioned reasons, it takes much longer for you to go through security than I...why should I wait. You can get 10 'expert' travellers through quicker than a family of 5. It is not like you have to sit in the back of the plane (though the segregation of children under 5 is something to consider).

IF someone can offer a reasonable, nonsmartassed discussion as to why this is wrong, please, enlighten us for whom this is a blessing.

Javert

Cranky Customer

+ Watch video

yadz

southie

I think people, even TSA employees, like to think they will never mindlessly follow policies (especially people who frequent this website), and expect the same from their fellow humans, not usually thinking that sometimes you just have to have a job to feed yourself.

I believe most of the TSA frustration is with agents' failure/inability/etc. to exercise a little common sense by their own free will - which you list as a frustration the agents share. So, if nobody is happy or feels like the Agency is working well, that's a clear sign of the need for change.

Jim

* Business class, first class and elite FF have their own entry into security and (I think) their own security check points.
* Officially, families with strollers and other special needs passengers go through the regular security line. However, on busy days, security monitors the line for such passengers and escorts them to a point right before boarding passes are shown where a gatekeeper opens a barrier strip to let them break into the line. After clearing that first hurdle, they are segregated back out into a set of check points that are kept cordoned off, with another gatekeeper opening and closing the barrier strip to let in appropriate travelers.

Overall, the net effect works to the benefit of all travelers. The special needs families get filtered out of the main flow of traffic to keep the average traveler moving, while the special needs families get a shorter line which allows them to clear security not that much further behind a single traveler in a main line, once the extended unpacking/packing time is taken into account.

rdunlap

Red for the authoritarian hothead.
Yellow for moderately stupid.
Blue for dumber than a box of rocks.
Green for too smart to work at TSA.

LionelEHutz

2. Children should be packed IN your luggage. If you have two kids, you can carry them on. Three or more, means you have to check some under the plane.

3. Saavy business travelers have the right to go to the front of any line. FF cards grant them the right to shove and push lesser humans as desired.

4. Instead of metal detectors, they should use microwaves. When your pocket change and body piercings heat up and electrify, you will think twice the next time.

5. Good TSA agents should be given raises and thanked personally by travelers and their superiors. Homemade cookies and hearty handshakes are ideal ways to show gratitude for keeping us safe and as stress free as possible in a bad situation.

6. Bad TSA agents should have to wait on their own lines and pass through the microwave with a pocket full of quarters and highly conductive scrotal piercings. They should then be forced to wear turbans and "Praise Allah" t-shirts and sit in coach between sweaty, drunk, flatulent passengers.

stuartny

The really sad thing is that TSA has only a couple people at each checkpoint that can think on their own. The rest are too busy doing their comparmentalized little jobs. Shuffling grey bins. Sliding grey bins out of the xray machine. Stacking grey bins. Looking at tickets after you walk through teh metal detector. These people get paid $50K a year to be idiots.

TSA isn't very responsive. There could be 200 people backed up, and they have only one line going. Then when the line gets down, they finally decide to open up 2 more lines, and then they stand around. The worst is 6am flights. They open security at 5am, and there are hundreds of people waiting for those 6am flights. They open 1 or 2 lines and people are lucky to make their flights. And what do they do better than the non-TSA security force prior to 9-11? Security back then did exactly what the rules said. Nothing more, nothing less. So what benefit does TSA offer?

yikz

Third idea: put the scariest looking TSA agents on the black line.

lihtox

We have greater expenses, so think of it as an addition to the standard deduction.

and more benefits from the higher taxes I pay (like a public school system)

Assuming you're not planning on snuffing it soon, those kids whose education you hate to pay for will become contributing members of the society you will be interacting with. If you've ever bemoaned the stupidity of politicians or clerks or TSA agents, you should happily support increased education funding and better public education. Public education benefits everyone, not just the kids.

And as a parent with an infant, I would be happy to take the green line: getting through the line becomes much more complicated when you have a carseat and stroller, while you're holding a baby, and I hate feeling like I'm holding up a line. (I already take off my shoes and put my keys and coins into my coat pocket before I get into line.)

lihtox

I think it's no coincidence that the program is being tested in two of the larger Recreational Skiing destinations in the US.

I think my point is that the symbols out of their normal context (Difficulty level of a trail) are confusing.

MercuryPDX

Wait, are we actually arguing whether a ski slope metaphor used in a completely different setting perfectly parallels the signs at an actual ski slope? Really?

spinachdip

Maulleigh

MercuryPDX

MercuryPDX

[www.ezilon.com] -
In the United States, the difficulty rating symbols are as follows:
* Green Circle Easiest
* Blue Square Intermediate
* Black Diamond Difficult
* Two Black Diamonds Expert
* A Black Diamond inside of a Blue Square Variations of Intermediate and Difficult
* A Green Circle inside of a Blue Square Variations of easy and intermediate
* Orange Rectangle Terrain Park

MercuryPDX

Welcome to the United States of Amerika, comrade. Are your papers in order?

Annika-Lux

Jabes

rhombopteryx

Godwin's law, yes, but also true....

rhombopteryx

jamesdenver

jonworld

spinachdip

MercuryPDX

This security thing could be done correctly, right now it's not, it's a facade.

axiomatic

Did I state that, no. Nice try though...

Did I say that they do it right every time. No. Nice try. Nobody is perfect and never said they were.

As for taking your own job seriously, well that's all well and good but don't expect something from a TSA employee that you yourself are not willing to give to them.

Your first post about "doing their f*king job" really is what started this and it's pretty clear by virtue of that alone, what you think of TSA employees, and that you don't distinguish from them the incredibly convoluted and bureaucratically governed system that they are being asked to carry forth.

jeremybwilson

Bay State Darren

Sorry, no.

I take my job very seriously and do an excellent job EVERY TIME. I expect the same from TSA as well.

Are you telling me that they do it right every time? If so then whats all the complaints about TSA for?

You get a "E" for effort.

axiomatic

arstal

Amelie

Geekybiker

When do we get our forehead tattoos?

Mr. Gunn

Amelie

As for my attitude, I recognize I came off as innappropriately and for that I am apologetic, however I think I gave several fair examples of who to and how the travelling publics frustrations should be directed.

To your last sentence, touche. Fair is fair.

FWIW, I never ever spoke disrespectfully to a passenger and always tried to be empathetic to the needs of individual and families obviously in over their heads at the security checkpoint.

For those of you who travel through Seatac (Seattle) that is where I was at and so I need to be fair in pointing out that we were considered one of the model examples, as opposed to some places like Reagan, Dulles, and Baltimore.

jeremybwilson

i have little faith in this though - the Whole Foods lines are easy to figure out and Still half the people there get stumped by them.

thatnameistaken

Older people who have traveled some are as adept as you, just wiser enough not to act superior. (Older people can't take a punch in the nose well. You, on the other hand, sound like you need one.)

Your problem is that you're too important to fly in an airplane. Try flying without one.
Next time you're in the line, please wear your POTKETTLEBLACK T-shirt. I want to see you standing behind me....

wobudong

wobudong

Jim

I HATE standing behind old people, people with kids, and people with large amounts of carry on luggage that should have been checked (I wish the airlines would actually ENFORCE their carry on restrictions and gate check anything that doesn't fit in their policy, but that's a rant for another day). These people KLUDGE up security at National Airport and at Lambert St. Louis, two airports I frequent. Security at KCI is a little more rational, but that's neither here nor there. Last time I was at Lambert, I got my flight shifted and had to hurry. I went the back way (If you walk down to the security for terminal C I think, you get a much shorter line), and got stuck behind a woman with two stroller age kids and a group of four old people. I am lucky to have made the flight. They were calling group 5 (of 5) as I got to the gate. A self selection that put single travelers apart from groups would have kept my cortisol levels a lot more level.

Any rate, I think there's gonna be confusion on the Blue and Black, but not as much as you'd think. I think there will be bitching from Breeders, but they already get tax breaks and more benefits from the higher taxes I pay (like a public school system) and other advantages, and their rugrats are the reason I own noise canceling headphones, so the least they can do is arrive earlier and let me pass in the fast line for fast people.

PotKettleBlack

wobudong

I think they're trying to fix the wrong side of the line here. Besides, as others have mentioned, as soon as Thanksgiving comes, all this proper lane selection goes completely out the window.

Trying to be positive: does this mean Green line TSA agents will be more familiar with a family's travel needs like this? And less like this?

Jim

If you haven't walked a mile in their shoes (I did for five years) then shut the f*ck up.

Being a TSO is a high stress customer service job where not only the public generally dislikes you (just short of FEMA and the IRS Tax Man) but management is para-military governed (like the Army) disciplinarian through and through. It's bad enough to have to listen to passengers who think they deserve the world on a silver platter, it's altogether unbearable to have Washington DC (Don't Care) constantly changing the rules that you all love so much.

So don't take it out on the ground floor TSO (officer), instead write your stinking congressman or senator, or better yet vote for somebody who is either going to properly fund the agency (so issues like staffing can be addressed) or do away with it altogether. Vent at them, not a blue collar federal employee who probably would rather have a job elsewhere in the first place.

It's people like you who make me glad I'm back in the private sector making three times the wages.

Next time I'm at an airport, I'll be sure to tell the TSO's at their station thank you and to keep up the good word, and if I hear people like you in line bitching and moaning about how bad TSA is, I'll be sure to tell you go by a friggin bus ticket.

jeremybwilson

You could just watch all the ambitious should-be-blue people clog the black line and swiftly go through the empty blue line.

clevershark

coelacanth

I was just one person who slammed the TSA blog site with the recoommendation that they use some sort of industrial sequencing or throughput analysis to figure the lines out. That 20% (families with strollers, special needs, etc) was holding up the 80% (everyone else), natch?

econobiker

axiomatic

When I hit security, I always have one rollaboard (the largest allowed) and a laptop in a backpack. Before getting in line, my shoes are loose, my belt buckle is removed and placed in the outer pocket of the rollaboard with my keys and any change that I may have. Jacket (if any) is stuffed into my rollaboard.

As soon as I get to the table, laptop comes out and into a tray, shoes go into the tray on top of the laptop. When I get to the machine, shoes come out and directly onto the belt (not allowed to be on top of the laptop) and eveything gets stuffed into the machine.

(I have not set off a metal detector in nine years of frequent flying).

Pop out the other side, slip on the shoes, grab my bags and get out of the way before recovery.

Most times this works but sometimes one of more piece of electronics in my rollaboard catches the X-ray ops attention (2 foot long ham radio antenna, usually, or one of my wall-wart chargers) but nine times out of 10 I get through quick, with my big-as-allowed rollaboard and my backpack.

Just need to prepare yourself.

AD8BC

Christo67

As opposed to the people I'm usually stuck behind. Laptop man who was upset that, despite plenty of signage, announcements, and videos (Las Vegas airport), he had to take the thing out of the case. Or the skateboarder who discovered that his metal studded belt made the metal detector go off...

Maybe they could have someone there to direct people. "You...the one with no visible jewelry on, no watch, and shoes in hand, you go over there. You, twit, with a watch, a chunky steel bracelet, and an attitude, you go over there..."

catskyfire

On a slightly related note: who here has gone through Southwest Airlines' new boarding lines? Crystal clear to me and many others, but there's always the one thick-skulled person who absolutely cannot understand that C-42 is NOT A-1.

witeowl

B

witeowl

but then again we have just invoked Godwins law.

sir_eccles

I have just recently started to travel for work. In the last six months I've flown five round trips. But I don't qualify for "elite" FF status because they've all been on different airlines.

Next weekend, I'll be heading to Scotland for training. I have an hour layover at Gatwick. This is not going to be near long enough. Some sort of expedited line would surely help me.

speedwell

B

forever_knight

Baggage? The "experts" will frequently be loaded with in cabin gear. So just saying 1 piece of carry on doesnt make sense.

It seems the frequently flier club level are an already wide spread pre-existing method of checking flight experience. Its easy and quick to check at the gate. Yes you can buy your way in to most of them, and yes the cards could be fake. But you'll always deal with people trying to "game" the system. Try writing "SSSS" on your boarding card sometime if you want to skip the line. At least it would sort most of the people into th e lines they belong in.

Geekybiker

itsallme

HRHKingFriday

Geekybiker

I would have loved to have been in on the discussions about what colors and shapes they were going to use for these 3 categories.

Pink triangles? Out, just wayyyy out.
Red crosses? Out, taken.
Blue stars? Out, Jerry Jones will sue us.
Pink hearts, yellow moons, blue diamonds? Lucky Charms people will sue us.

savvy999

theblackdog

Yes, I will defend this usage with my life if necessary. I enshrine it in my heart right next to the use of singular "they."

speedwell

Amelie

Geekybiker

pibbsman0

@KyleOrton: Thank you a rarity on this site - a truly clever comment, while making a pertinent point to the topic at hand.

@B1663R: Why repeat what has already been said in English, in horrible German?

Amelie

And you'll also get your ass handed to you if youre dick who goes skiing at top speed through a populated green "slow zone" full of kids and slow riders.

Perhaps the same will play out for those who clog up the expert lines yet can't seem to empty that last pocket of change. Or conversely a jerk who heads to the family line just because its shorter - only to sit waiting for bumbler after bumbler to clear the metal detecter.

james [www.futuregringo.com]

jamesdenver

KyleOrton

econobiker

That or the TSA has confiscated it all. Cause, you know, all terrorists keep their evil world domination plans on easily-accessible laptops and personal electronic devices.

mopar_man

Bay State Darren

MissTic

@Franklin Comes Alive!: I am in favor of a test.

kimsama

ericole

Sounds racist to me.

morganlh85

B1663R

I don't carry a lot of stuff because I've got packing and what I'm going to wear down pretty well. So, you don't need three pairs of pants and three jackects for three days, etc.

Yes, I agree, macho schmos (excellent choice of words BTW), who think they're black, but are actually blue, will be the problem.

ARP

Franklin Comes Alive!

In my experience, the more a person travels the more likely they are to carry everything on.

KyleOrton

DarthPaul

*Up in the annoucer's booth*
"Today we have Vicky, a tried and true green circle, attempting to navigate the tricky black diamond Security Salom Event. She's looking good so far...around the first marker...sloppy around the second...oh no she's tripped and fell! Looks like it'll be an hour delay at the security checkpoint for everyone now!"

Teradoc

toddiot

cmdr.sass

Oh, yeah, that'll go over well.

ElizabethD

firefoxx66

laserjobs