Big retail stores make almost zero profit from TVs, game consoles, and other high profile items they advertise heavily to get people to buy.

When you go shopping for a TV, you compare the prices of the TVs, not the extras, so anywhere that has the lowest price on the TV is going to get your business.

These items purposely come without adequate accessories, warranty, etc. The actual profit that the retailer should have got on the TV, is instead made up for on the accessories and warranty.

The employees at these stores are being trained by Monster on how to sell their products and given commissions for doing so.

Yes you can pay less money by buying your TV at Bestbuy and getting your cables online.

As more people do this, the price on the TVs will just go up to offset lost profits.

As was stated earlier, a 44% profit margin (which is the correct calculation, you take the sale price of $179.99 calculate the percent of that price which is profit) is not large at all for cables. "Markup" refers to the percentage increase over the original price (ie. $100 cost, $200 sale price, is 100% markup, but 50% profit margin). Most $20 cheaper cables people are buying are probably a 100% markup. And that's for HDMI/DVI cables which are more expensive. RCA/Component/S-Video cables, even the cheap ones, are probably 300% markup or higher.

Keep in mind that any store that offers cheap cables, probably does not actually sell or carry big box items like TVs. They wouldn't be able to have competitive prices. TVs are heavy, cost a lot to ship, take up a lot of room, and are impossible to sell without the best price in town, period.

Basically, there's nothing wrong with what the retail stores are doing. And yes, you can slip through the system by buying cheap cables elsewhere. If you're too lazy to have to go to another store and blame stores like Best Buy for not giving you a one stop free ride, that's your problem.

moozh84

Most of them fail at accurately sending 1080p over anything but the shortest distance, and almost no one does any real lab testing beyond the minimal HDMI license certification.

Begin to check for the DPL (not DLP) rating. Or for longer runs try devices which send HDMI over Cat5e or, soon, RG6.

EnBuenOra

taka2k7

Many have claimed that the cable doesn't matter, others disagree. The confusion is in the definition. Better cables transmit data better. But the standard is in, well, the defined standard. So is Monster cable better than el-cheapo? Not if they both meet the same standard.

The standard is what is critical here. Network cables are where I have more experience. Cat-3 cable has a different standard than Cat-6. It has to do with wire gauge, jacket/insulation, and the ever critical twist. Data moving at different speeds produces different effects in the cable, mostly capacitance, and the standards take that into account. Cat-6 cable is designed for a higher bandwidth than Cat-3.

So the cable does make a difference, but if the manufacturer making the cable lives up to the promise implied in claiming to adhere to the standards, then it doesn't matter who or where you get it from.

hnkelley

BearTack

banmojo

d-bags.

banmojo

wdnobile

If the dollar store had HDMI cables I'd buy them there too.

And last Sunday I watched the Daytona 500 on my HDTV by tuning in the over-the-air digital signal I received on my dollar store UHF antenna. I guess I was missing something by not having a 100.00 self tuning, self aiming antenna.

Psychodad1961

ecwis

BY S1965 AT 06/06/07 06:28 PM

I am a 25-year veteran of the broadcast and audio/visual industry. I've been observing the deal with Monster Cable, ever since it came out. The answer between me and my colleagues is simple: People are stupid...and no matter what you tell them they will continue to be stupid. I remember back in the early 90s, when Monster made only their overpriced speaker cable. I colleague of mine who had a pretty heavy-duty electronics shop in his business. They did a very complete "sweep" of the cable and they found that any difference in quality was neglibile, and essentially nullified by commonly bad installation, lousy equipment, poor signal management, and improper use. It's prettymuch the same way today.

Monster resorts to a commonly used practice known as "specs-manship". If you can prove on paper that your product performs in a certain way, under certain circumstances (usually in a laboratory environment), you can claim superior performance and a resulting premium market price. Total nonsense. Lordargent made an accurate statement in the prior posting: "Who uses 33 feet of cable?" Most people need about 5 feet. I recently outfitted my masterbedroom with a nice Sharp Aquos 1080p LCD with all the trimmings. I balked at the non-sensical price of Monster Cable. Instead, I purchased some $7 HDMI cables online. They work perfectly. No artifacting...no dropouts. Oh yeah...and for anyone who talks about Monster having greater "clarity", tell them to get their head examined! Just as we discovered in the 90s that Monster speaker cable produced frequency performance advantages that were beyond the physical capabilities of most people to hear, if you can see bit-related errors from an HDMI signal, you need to get a job with the circus.

All kidding aside, here is my advice. Go to a retailer, buy the cheapest one, if it doesn't work, take it back and get the next better product. (For HDMI cables at Best Buy, this means you have three levels of pricing choice for the same type of product.) If you're really smart, buy the cheap ones that get endorsed here on Gizmodo.

walterny

BY S1965 AT 06/06/07 06:28 PM

I am a 25-year veteran of the broadcast and audio/visual industry. I've been observing the deal with Monster Cable, ever since it came out. The answer between me and my colleagues is simple: People are stupid...and no matter what you tell them they will continue to be stupid. I remember back in the early 90s, when Monster made only their overpriced speaker cable. I colleague of mine who had a pretty heavy-duty electronics shop in his business. They did a very complete "sweep" of the cable and they found that any difference in quality was neglibile, and essentially nullified by commonly bad installation, lousy equipment, poor signal management, and improper use. It's prettymuch the same way today.

Monster resorts to a commonly used practice known as "specs-manship". If you can prove on paper that your product performs in a certain way, under certain circumstances (usually in a laboratory environment), you can claim superior performance and a resulting premium market price. Total nonsense. Lordargent made an accurate statement in the prior posting: "Who uses 33 feet of cable?" Most people need about 5 feet. I recently outfitted my masterbedroom with a nice Sharp Aquos 1080p LCD with all the trimmings. I balked at the non-sensical price of Monster Cable. Instead, I purchased some $7 HDMI cables online. They work perfectly. No artifacting...no dropouts. Oh yeah...and for anyone who talks about Monster having greater "clarity", tell them to get their head examined! Just as we discovered in the 90s that Monster speaker cable produced frequency performance advantages that were beyond the physical capabilities of most people to hear, if you can see bit-related errors from an HDMI signal, you need to get a job with the circus.

All kidding aside, here is my advice. Go to a retailer, buy the cheapest one, if it doesn't work, take it back and get the next better product. (For HDMI cables at Best Buy, this means you have three levels of pricing choice for the same type of product.) If you're really smart, buy the cheap ones that get endorsed here on Gizmodo.

walterny

[gizmodo.com]

walterny

Now let's do the same with jewelry...

Protector

Mac OS is worth the price difference alone. I'm not a vehement Apple defender, but I "switched" a couple of years ago - once you go Mac you never go back.

RollOverForMore

dlab

JollyJumjuck

There are many brands that "overcharge" consumers. Why get so worked up about one company when there are so many alternatives?

Monster cables aren't worth the money- we get it. What's next?

JChoice

mantari

Personally, I have to cheer on Monster Cables and those companies behind the Warranty Plans. Because the companies are expecting so much profit from these little items, I can run in and get the big ticket items for a song! So hats off to the MC/WP buyers?

mantari

Bunklung

The $10 cables I bought online perform just as well as your (outrageously overpriced) products. The only reason I bought them online, instead of at a store, is because of the criminal precedent your company has set -- now there are no major "brick and mortar" stores left that carry reasonably priced cabling, only Monster products and products that emulate your preposterous pricing.

Oh, and your petulant insistence that "clothing, jewelry, furniture, and accessories to other consumer products" have a similar mark-up might hold some water if it weren't for the fact that none of those products used to cost 1/8th their current price just a few years ago.

You know Monster, if you're not even going to come up with some GOOD bullshit to defend your reprehensible business practices, you may as well not even try.

ClankBoomSteam

rikkus256

great article and it's been fun following this story.

jaewon223

@Aesteval: I don't see how "the current market" of uninformed consumers who will pay ungodly amounts for HDMI cables was somehow created by Monster. Also, you can get 6ft USB cables for $1.99 from pretty much any online retailer --- not as convenient as walking into a store, but then again, you know better than to pay too much for it, right? :-)

@avconsumer: I see that you resorted to calling me an amateur since you wanted to open your mouth and didn't have anything intelligent to say. I am certainly an amateur (since I don't work in "the industry" like you) but I believe I am entitled to my opinion, which I've come to after years of playing guitar onstage through all kinds of crappy, noisy cables.

dlab

as a general rule i NEVER purchase a suggested 'accessory'... because i usually know what i need to go with it.... i'd rather go home and find out i don't need something than go home with something i don't need.

fuzzymuffins

MastaFalse

MastaFalse

I sent the Monster cables back for a refund. Fuck that.

jkaufman101

You have two cables.

See whut I did thar?

avconsumer

/sarcasm

There's a difference between bitching and informing. The former has no utility (besides being irritating) while the latter enables one to make a better decision in the future. And I think the knowledge of ridiculously high markups only helps the consumer steer towards places like monoprice.com , but only if they have the correct information (in this case, the high price isn't correlative to high quality) and they don't shoot the messenger by calling it "bitching."

kizzle

The $6 cable I got at Target works just fine thanks.

bohemian

This is how companies get around anti-competitive / price fixing laws.

sam1am

My roommate works at Best Buy, and their cable markup is unbelievable but his discount (which is just above cost) helps out big time. He agrees that Monster overrated and his discount is about ~60% on avg for Monster cables (the discount amount depends on the Cost BB pays for the cable). The AR cables are much more reasonable and he gets a larger discount on those cables. He bought us a Dynex (BB store brand) power cleaner/ surge protector that retailed for $130, after discount it was $30, now thats a ridiculous markup.

DevonTheDude

efesus

pomophobe

NOT.

zanella

Aesteval

axiomatic

I'm a electrical engineer but I'm perfectly content to let crap like that go most of the time. I'm not a purist and I understand market place reality sometimes trumps truth. No biggie. Barnum's target audience buys TVs too. What pisses me off is the unapproved waste of my time when some kid that needs to find Clearsil in his local grocery store tells me there can be a better delivery of a square wave through a cable because some moron spray painted it purple.

Retailers - Radio Shack especially - have taken to supplement their failing business models by shoving these cables down their customer's throats. For those of you fond of arguing from a pure economic capatialist perspective I'll present it this way: The opportunity cost of listing to Poindexter Zitface try to shovel 80% markup out of my pocket after I've arleady said "no" is too high, it's pissed me off and when I do still shop at Radio Shack (which is considerably less than ten years ago) I silently berrate myself for not planning ahead well enough to order what I needed online.

And now I'm taking great pleasure in watching Radio Shack, Monster and every other jerk that stole my time wallow around in the feces filled pit of consumer rage after their "magic numbers" have been exposed.

andyroark

The law, actually, is closer to what Monster's flack said that what Ben thinks. Manufacturers can announce an MSRP, and can refuse to sell to retailers who undercut it. What they couldn't do (before), was reach an agreement with the store that they'd honor the MSRP. The change in the law simply lets a defendant argue that there is some sort of pro-consumer effect of the MSRP agreement.

(I've personally never found any such argument persuasive, but the Court left the door open for one).

D.B. Cooper-Nichol

Seriously, though. Come on. You know the bulk of the complaint here is about audio/video cables for consumers. Monster is just making a profit? Great! Just provide me some proportional value for the extra price, or don't whine when people call Monster Cable a ripoff for charging something far in excess of any value they bring to the table.

mantari

The article misleads the reader in citing retailer markups of 80% as if the retailer makes 80% profit margin on products that they sell. Anyone in retail knows that one does not calculate profit by markups, but by profit margins made on the sale as a ratio of what they paid for it.

And anyone in retail, especially retail marketing, knows that the overwhelming majority of consumers talk about prices & profits in terms of markup. And this is, after all, a consumer oriented site. Nowhere does the article say, or even imply, anything about profit margins. It talks consistently about markups, even going so far as to point out that markups of this magnitude are commonplace in the world of audio and electronics retailing.

So changing the topic to "profit margin" - a term well understood by retailers and accountants, but little used by actual consumers - is just an attempt to muddy the waters and minimize the outrageous sounding numbers. "See? it's only 44%, not 80%! That's not bad at all! See?" If there is any intent to mislead here, it is by you, and is intentional. Frankly, this is pretty sleazy, but not surprising from a large corporate marketing department.

It's also misleading when the tone of the article alludes to Monster Cable ripping off consumers, when Monster cannot legally set retail pricing. This is clearly up to the retailer.

"... the Supreme Court ruled on Thursday that it was not au... This ruling ( Leegin Creative Leather Products, Inc. v. PSKS, Inc.) is more than 6 moths old. Do you actually expect us to believe that you are unaware of this? Pardon my bluntness, but that's bullshit, pure and simple. Once again, the only person trying to mislead here is you. It's still slimy, and it's still unsurprising.

We would also like to point out that Monster makes the highest quality cables in the world,

Gee willikers! The HIGHEST quality? Wow.

Holy crap. you can't even write one single paragraph without spewing some sleazy marketing lie, can you? You and I both know exactly why this quote is a dishonest line of crap. But for all the other readers out there, this brief article sums it up nicely.

There is also a comment about digital cables not making a difference and that the only difference in digital cables is the price. This is simply not the case. HDMI Licensing, LLC, the group that develops the HDMI specification, has published two different cable speeds for the current 1.3 specification: Standard Speed at 2.23 Gbps, and High Speed at 4.95 Gbps, which is known as HDMI 1.3 Category 2. For more information, go to www.hdmi.org.

The original article discusses the demonstrated fact that there is little or no difference between cables of the same HDMI version from different manufacturers. You respond by waving around the fact that there are different versions shouting "SEE? There ARE differences!" It's nothing more than a red herring, an intentional distraction, an attempt to make it seem as though you rebutted the article when you are actually talking about something comletely different. Four paragraphs, Four lies.

In fact, Steve Venuti, Vice President of Marketing for HDMI Licensing, LLC, stated in a recent Widescreen Review article: ...

Steve Venuti? Steve Venuti???!!! You're actually quoting STEVE motherfucking VENUTI to try and impress us with how "not all digital cables are the same?"

Mr Venuti is sicussing diffenernces between different versions of HDMI. The consumerist article discussed cables OF THE SAME VERSION from different manufacturers. Dishonest quote mining is nothing new from marketing departments. So let's look ata few quotes from Mr Venuti concerning HDMI cables that are actually relevant to the original Consumerist artive:

"Digital cables are either compliant or they are not; they either work or they don't."

"...there is no such thing as an HDMI cable that makes the digital audio or video data come out better than another."

"most home users will see no issues at all in 2-3 meter cables, regardless of the manufacturer. "

Sigh. I give up. It's too much. Pointing out and rebutting each lie as you tell it is far too time consuming for me to keep it up to the end of your 900 word marketing excrapaganza.

For all you readers who couldn't stand to read this entire war and peace sized anti-Monster rant, let me sum it up as succinctly as I can:

Eat a bag of dicks, Monster.

TinyBug

stre

Public Relations
The message reached the recipient's e-mail system, but delivery was refused. Attempt to resend the message. If it still fails, contact your system administrator.

Pen

A more accurate way of saying it would be "since Monster broke into the consumer electronics cable market." ....

Here's a more accurate way of saying it "MONSTER BROKE THE CONSUMERS". :)

ARPRINCE

notallcompaniesareevil

shadow735

PabloPablo

HDMI cables follow the same rules as Ethernet cables. Anyone who has worked with Ethernet knows there is a quality difference between CAT5, CAT5E and CAT6 cable ratings.

CAT5 cables are rated for 10/100MB/s over 100M (330FT), CAT5E is rated for 10/100/1000MB/s (gigabit) over 100M and CAT6 is qualified to 10GB and video.

I'm not defending Monster Cable here, because I do believe their prices are exorbitant, but you could argue that a higher "quality" cable can carry an HDMI signal at greater distances with less signal degradation, or transmit higher levels of bandwidth at a shorter distance.

Although you will not see any difference between 6ft cables, try these tests with a 75ft cable or 100ft cable and will more than likely notice a difference.

Atticka

I just hate it that one of my top favorite companies ever that makes one of the few products that I am confident to stand up for has to get raked over the coals just because consumers don't educate themselves.

dlab

As for misinformation, I put forward the "this belonged to an old lady that only drove it on Sunday" counterargument. Should you believe that car salesman?

joemama321

jehnidiah

When it comes to upgrading the device that uses a new standard, then you upgrade your cables to be spec compatible. Don't be the guy buying CAT6 for your 10Mbps network.

jobo

TMurphy

Canoehead

"Oh, their gold-plated heads are less prone to interference from lunar cycles and solar flares"

"The thick patented insulation material protects them from wear due to the earth's geomagnetic fields"

"They're prettier"

Guizzy

But yeah, the other points are all well taken. Monster cables are a rip-off, designed to profit off of ill-informed consumers.

Pender

monoprice.com

David Hildreth

Aesteval

Non-techie people: Don't trust what anyone in a blue or red shirt say. More often than not, they don't know the difference either.

Aside: I had a Best Buy person tell me he sees a difference in BROADCAST shows when he watched it on his 1080p TV. He went on for a few minutes telling me how awesome it is. I completely shut him down when I said, "You know, all broadcasts are in 1080i."

His response: "Oh. But I still can tell the difference."

mike

mobbo

HD invites a healthy balance of the rich and the ignorant.

strider_mt2k

Odds are you either had no other timely option (and unless you're going to wait for mail order, this is often the case) or you were deliberately misinformed.

Neither situation is as bad as having a gun to your head, but both still suck.

TechnoDestructo

First of all, as a musician I find it offensive that I am somehow not a "consumer." How are analog cable sales not considered "consumer sales?" Monster has been an established company for YEARS before HDMI cables even existed, so I would argue against HDMI making up 99.9% of the SKU's that Monster ships. Also, HDMI cables are not the point of contention --- the title of Ben's original post is "Monster Cables, Monster Ripoff," a blanket statement.

Second, if you are sold an HDMI Monster cable and the salesman lies to you and tells you it's better than all the other ones and you'll really see a difference, YOU GOT RIPPED OFF BY THE SALESMAN, NOT MONSTER. Why not bitch about Best Buy salesmen instead?

Third, S-video and stereo (by "stereo" I assume you mean RCA component cables) are both types of analog cables meant to transmit analog signals. While I'm sure you paid more than you would've liked, that is nobody's fault but your own.

dlab

HDMI cables still transmit data faster than a Cat 6 (gigabit) cable. Now, if you talk to people who run data cabling, different brands make better quality ethernet cable. They may all be rated to the same standard, some simply stand up better than others in shielding from crosstalk, loss of signal, etc.

Now, the truth of this is that most people will never notice the difference between using a Cat 5e cable, and a Cat 6 cable at gigabit speeds. Simply because their uses do not place a need for or demand higher tolerances to interference that Cat 6 provides.

So, yes, most people can buy cables from monoprice.com... Me? If I were running structured cabling (as I usually do), I would err on the side of buying something with better shielding/insulation for stuffing inside my walls. Plus, I would be less likely to have to rip it out of the wall and replace it sooner.

Xavoc

P.S.~ I just bought some HDMI cables off Amazon for $5 each (incl. shipping). I should be getting them soon, let's see what the quality on those looks like. (And from what I read from the reviews, you can't tell it's a $5 cable.)

richard8a

It's correct to say that "digital is digital" IF you aren't having corruption. If you are, then that's another story, and how that is handled is dictated by the digital protocol being used to transmit the data. Some use error correcting codes and redundancy to handle a certain level of corruption seamlessly (example: satellite transmissions). Others just detect most corruption and request retransmission (example: Ethernet). Others might do nothing at all and just allow the corruption (example: some video transmission, since there is no time to do a retransmit usually). You're not going to notice minor corruption of a few pixels in an HDTV signal.

johnva

rolla

Did I pay more than I needed to for a product with similar results? I'm sure I did. Do I hold it against Monster or the retailer? Hell, no. There is one thing of which I am certain: I did not have a gun put to my head when I was told I should buy these. I would have remembered that.

Every day of our lives, we choose to put ourselves in risky situations. I have as much sympathy for Monster Cable buyers who feel ripped off as I do for those who were told that their ARM "probably wouldn't adjust upward" and now feel ripped off. Do some goddamn research before you put your money on the line and accept some responsibility for your choices. If you can't afford the mistake, you shouldn't be playing the game. HD, like homeownership, is not a god-given right.

With the advent of this newfangled www-thingy, your search costs are close to zero if you have any leisure time. If your time is so valuable that it doesn't make sense to research this stuff, you are stating implicitly that you can afford to pay more for something.

Sure, we could regulate everything. However, that world is 100x more scary to me than a world with unscrupulous salespeople.

joemama321

[www.theps3faq.com]

From the post:

B) Think of it this way. Let's say you have a ladder with 200 steps on it. An "analog" signal represent information by WHICH step the person is on at a certain time. As you move further and further away (get "noise or interference in the signal), it's very easy to start making mistakes. For example, if the person is on the 101st step, you might say he's on 102nd, or as you get further away, you might start making more and more mistakes. At some point you won't know if the person is on the 13th step or the 50th step.

NOW... In a digital signal, we don't care if he's on the 13th or 14th or 15th step. All we care about is rather he's at the TOP or the BOTTOM. So now, as we back you up further and further (introduce more noise), you might have no idea what STEP he's on, but you'll STILL be able to tell if he's a "1" or a "0".

THIS is why digital signals aren't affected by cheaper cables. Now eventually if you keep moving further and further back, there may come a point where you can no longer tell if he's up or down. But the good news is, digital signals don't "guess". If they SEE the signal, they work. If they DON'T, they DON'T.

darkjedi26

Caduceus

Monster isn't a bad company. They were the first ones to push "almost O2 free" copper wire, and gold-connector ends to the consumer. Most HiFi aficionados will actually agree to Monster's claims (true audiophiles will provide better, cheaper alternatives like monoprice and bluejeanscable). But the average consumer's audio canal will not come close to the frequencies that "Monster claims are reproduced faithfully".
My issue here is how retailers (Walmart, Circuit City, Best Buy...) have used their "coercion" to exclude necessary cabling to of all things, printers. not one inkjet printer maker product sold in those stores will include a cable, because the retailers forced the makers to exclude it so they can "markup" sell accessories (bestbuy sells a $24.95 1M Belkin USB cable that cost them $2.34). That is more than 100-200% markup. I understand profit. And then there is greed over consumer stupidity.
Which is where Monster, and the like, excel. If you have no idea about wiring (good speaker wire can be 12-14gauge lamp 'zip' cord from Home Depot) then you have no idea about audio and deserve to pay $$ over what saavy buyers know. Nuff said.

SigmundTheSeaMonster

yikz

Xavoc

Monster is right in that these percentages of markups ARE very common in all retail areas and are infact pretty standard (perhaps even on the low side, as most such stores would probably mark up 50% or more!)

Now of course they are selling them to the retailer at a hight price, but that is there prerogative.

Can't understand why you're begrudging stores for making a standard healthy profit on these items.

meneye

Not all cables are built the same, and a lot goes into cable design to eliminate crosstalk, provide specific signal bandwidth, etc.

Xavoc

i think you hit the nail on the head.

I am in no way defending monster, but just remember the golden rule of business

Profit is not a dirty word!

Baukie

I've seen the differences in the component cables between the basic monoprice and a good broadcast quality cable like a Canare/Beldin combo. Equating monoprice cables to the best cable you need to buy is just rubbish. I'd rather take a Monster Cable than a monorpice cable most days of the week.

Lizard_King

In some ways this allows smaller competitors to stay in business that cannot buy in the quantity that companies like Best Buy. As the product pricing is universal. It's not as good for the consumer necessarily, but if places like Best Buy lose their competition, then they're free to increase their prices.

Xavoc

I think Apple buyers know what they are getting into. Monster cable buyers do not.

rcorrino

We are "piling on" Monster because people are being outright lied to by electronics retailers everyday about the need for "premium" cables to produce acceptable picture quality.

I heard a Best Buy employee tell an old couple that their new TV's warranty would not be honored unless they bought a $70.00 HDMI cable. The guy didn't even ask them what source (cable, sat etc) they were using.

When I bought my plasma at Circuit City last Christmas, I got a line of bullshit five miles long about cables. The salesman was actually reading from a script! Don't think for a minute that Monster doesn't have anything to do with this.

Not everyone is an electronics buff. Some are just regular people who want their tv to work.

bdgbill

Note that today's deal on monoprice.com is:
HDMI 1.3a Category 2 Certified Cable 28AWG - 6ft w/Ferrite Cores (Gold Plated)
This cable is priced at $3.72 on sale, $14.28 regular price.

It's Monster Cable equivalent (from Best Buy):
Monster Cable - Ultra Series 600 4' HDMI A/V Cable
$71.99 ON SALE, $79.99 regular price.

These cables carry the same HDMI 1.3a Category 2 certification, any chance monster cable PR wants to justify the price difference?

drcrabbysaurus

To continue your line of reasoning, anyone who's been sold a Monster Cable in instances where "cable is buried behind a TV set and will most likely NEVER PHYSICALLY MOVE more than once or twice" (which is to say, 99.9% of their consumer sales, the product that's the point of contention) would probably feel ripped off. And rightly so.

I know I felt ripped off when I found out my Monster s-video and stereo cables offered absolutely nothing in the way of improvement versus the cheap cable that was thrown in with some random component.

Caswell

orielbean

However, in a real-world setup, there will be ZERO difference in picture quality between monoprice.com HDMI cables and Monster HDMI cables. Zilch. Nada. It's snake oil.

AgentMunroe

johnva

nice, because cable technology has advanced so far beyond the wire carrying signal thingy...

ltcmurray

I will say again and again that Monster still makes the best instrument, XLR, and speaker cables on the market today, and backs them up with a LIFETIME WARRANTY --- if your cable breaks, get a new one for free. This probably means squat to HDMI folks - your cable is buried behind a TV set and will most likely NEVER PHYSICALLY MOVE more than once or twice. Anyone who has ever had an instrument cable start making ground noises during the middle of a paid performance would probably agree with me that avoiding that type of situation is worth every penny of the purchase price of a Monster cable.

@Snarkysnake: So the fact that Monster makes awesome, expensive, high quality products that are clearly not for everybody and that a lot of folks choose not to buy makes them a monopoly? I don't see why this company should have their name trashed to pay for the ignorance of a few idiots with HDTV's who don't understand how digital technology works. Nobody is making people buy Monster cables... there are other packages on the shelf. People need to look for the shelf labeled "Cables" and look at the choices available instead of having the Best Buy salesman hold your hand.

Whew, who knew I could get so worked up about metal wrapped in rubber...

dlab

But in the absence of a clear benefit (value) then there's no justification for a higher price.

That's why people pay a premium for Macs, for example. There is a perception of value, or actual value (take your pick. I'm a mac fan, but I also understand that in marketing, perception can be reality).

RRich

jaredharley

iPods all cost the same at retail because Apple sells iPods to retailers at a wholesale price that only gives the retailers a few percentage points of margin. If retailers were to cut the price further, they would be selling them at a loss. This is true with almost all major electronics (TVs, computers, video game consoles). In the electronics space, retailers make all their money off of accessories - in this case, Monster cables.

wwwhitney

In practice I highly doubt there is a noticeable difference between different certified HDMI cable brands, especially at shorter lengths.

Ethernet is a little bit different because a) it tends to be run for much longer distances than HDMI cables would be (hence more opportunity for analog signal loss) and also it doesn't have error correction. It just retransmits when data gets corrupted and only uses error detection. That, and a single corrupted pixel in your HDTV feed is not going to matter. In an Ethernet frame, a single corrupted bit does matter.

johnva

eelmonger

Bizdady

UnStatusTheQuo

I will never buy one of your overpriced, sub-par products.

Monoprice for the mother fucking win.

That is all.

kabes

GM% = (Sell - Cost)/Sell

So, in that respect Monster's calculation of retail margin is the normal calculation. Where they are wrong is in saying that 44% GM is "in line with what retailers choose to sell accessory items like Monster Cable." Unless things have changed in the 5 years I've been away from the category, 44% GM is quite low for audio accessory items at a brick-and-mortar operation. It is typical for a retailer to generally made 60-80% GM on private-label parts and accessories (but admittedly less on "national brand" items...closer to 50%). However, it is also typical for such items to have a slower turn rate, so the retailer's cost of inventory is higher on such items (which affects their Net Profit).

I'd say, if you can do it more cheaply in a physical retail environment and make a profit...go for it.

Opie

bandit

Substitute Apple iMac/MacBook/iPod for Monster HDMI cables and do we even have a controversy here? Why are we piling on Monster?

Apple gets a nice premium for their products vs. the same or better items of their competitors. A Dell PC will run $100's less than a Mac, a comprable MP3 player is significantly less than an iPod.

(I am sure this is going to rile up the Apple Fan Boys so let me just disclose that I am currently the proud owner of an iPhone and have owned 2 different iPods through the years.)

coreynyc

Echodork

No doubt that Monster cables will test better than the eBay cables. Looking at the signal on a sensitive oscilloscope might even convince many people they make a difference. However, trying to hear or see the difference will make you crazy, because your eyes and ears will hear no difference. The electronics and the signals sent across the cables have been designed to deal with signal losses and drop outs (as long as there are not too many).

Conclusion, buying any premium cable is 99% of the time, a waste of your money

vastrightwing

$86.99 - Monster Cable HDMI Cable - 6.6' at Circuit City:
[www.circuitcity.com]

$3.72 - HDMI 1.3a Category 2 Certified Cable 28AWG
[monoprice.com]

darkjedi26

theforce34

"Sure, a retailer might mark up our product 80%. But... but... that doesn't mean that they don't have any business expenses!!!"

"The high prices you pay everywhere for Monster Cables? We don't set these. We have no idea how everyone prices them so high! And, besides, small electronics usually make big profits!!!"

"These are the best cables in the world! Although if you compare us to other high performance competitors, there are some places where we're actually cheaper than some of their markups!!! It is true! Some people mark up their cables even more!!!"

"It isn't true that the only difference between HDMI cables is price. Uh... uh.... oh, look! They've come out with a new type of HDMI cable called HDMI 1.3 Category 2!!!" [side-steps the quality argument and replaces it with an argument on specifications]

"Look! Someone talks about a new faster specification of HDMI! See? Didn't I tell you? All HDMI cables aren't the same. There are two types. No... not working and defective. Normal and then another standard that is unnecessary for 99% of all TV viewers!!!"

"Visit our PR videos for the facts!!! Read the whitepaper we put out!!!"

"You know what? We actually test our cables. Can you believe that? Check out our testing PR!!!"

"OMG! Our cables are future proof! You'll never need a cable again for ridiculous 240hz displays. Unless they change the format of the connector, then we'll sell you the new version!!!"

"Look, we'll even MAIL you a free DVD with our PR! We teamed up with Disney so we must be telling the truth!!!"

"We have the best products in the universe at reasonable prices! (Our reason, HA!) We think that the people who sell them are neat. We're sure we cleared up any ''confusion'' that doesn't match our message, thanks!!!"
End of translation block

mantari

Cinder

muddgirl

BUT, I don't like how Best Buy and other retailers ONLY offer Monster Cables (and similar high-price-point) cables. Again, I understand the reasoning behind it (a 44% markup on a $50 cable is more profit than a 44% mark-up on a $10 cable), but it's still shitty that I have to go to Radioshack or an electronics warehouse to get regular, normal, perfectly functional cables.

This weekend, my Monster s-video cable broke (thanks to me being careless). I replaced it with an off-brand cable and have suffered no loss of quality.

muddgirl

I noticed absolutely no difference in picture or sound quality including HD.

The biggest differences were lots of extra insulation and fancy looking gold connectors on the Monster cables. The insulation may do something for you if you have lots of inteference where you live (2 hairdyers and the microwave running at the same time?).

The fact that the cables are so fat and heavy can make them difficult to use in some situations.

bdgbill

nihility

I would challenge the President or a videophile of his choosing to have 10 HDTVs setup using content of their choice (blu-ray or a live HDTV feed) and see if they can tell the difference between their top HDMI cable and a generic one bought for under $10.

If they can pass that test, I think it would certainly give their company a lot more credibility. It's also deceitful for them to try and pass a white paper off as credible like they did above. Either that, or their marketing department doesn't know the difference between a white paper and an independent study.

Hawk07

stephenjames716

(tl;dr)

ElizabethD

heresaywhat

Not that it makes what he said wrong, it's just that he's in... Marketing!

RRich

On the other hand, Cat 6 cable is less than $0.50/ft. Hmm... Nope, still can't justify Monster's cable prices. Tried though..

SacraBos

myotheralt

Xerloq

monoprice.com FTW

Mr. Gunn

Not at all true. There are dozens of wire companies all getting their bulk wire from the exact same Chinese factory that Monster gets their stuff from. And then there are companies that still make a good portion of their product in the USA.

They are correct though when they say that margins are very very small on plasma tvs. The pricing right now is very bad for anyone running a mom and pop type retail operation. I had one for 4 years, and we had to make money on things like wire, or else we were done.

As far as setting prices, pretty much every brand we carried had us sign a dealer agreement. Most of those agreements dictated that we have a minimum price policy. This was set to not only maintain the reputation of the brand, by not making it seem like a cheap discount brand. But it also helped small retailers like myself, because the big guys wouldn't be able kill us by selling it cheaper. It helped us maintain a fair profit level.
Sure, you as a consumer would like to get the lowest price on everything, as would I. But the fact of the matter is that stores need to make money to stay in business. If you came to my store because we offered better service, and better product than what you could get at Best Buy, you would probably like me to still be in business a year from now if you need help with something. My business was not a charity. It was a business. I can't help you at noon on a Sunday when you are having a big party, and can't figure out how to get the music on on the back deck, if I am out of business.

So I see the markups on cables 100 percent necessary for survival. You certainly can't stay in business selling a $1,500 plasma TV for $100 profit. After the credit card company takes their two percent, the landlord takes his rent, and the electric company takes their piece, there really isn't much left for many small business owners.

suburbancowboy

FearlessUser