Ratty

meehgz

csdiego

But we'd prefer that this labelling go ahead - free will might mean you can choose your fate but somehow it tastes so much better when you know exactly how much grease you're sucking back.

Besides, some of you are having trouble fitting through the gate down here and prybars don't have quite the same cachet as pitchforks.

Satans_Little_helper

I agree with you whole-heartedly. Why are people so worried about McDonalds restaurants, and whether they make it or not? I'd rather see a good place to eat stay in business and make it than a place that misses the mark for good eating altogether.

Nicococure

synergy

It isn't their responsibility for what goes in your body. It is yours. To say "some people are too busy" is such a lame excuse. Figure it out. Take responsibility for yourself. To say we need government intervention because people are too busy to worry for themselves is ridiculous and a classic example of why the government acts like your nanny.

FYI, alot of people speed and get in car wrecks. Should we have car companies forced to put speed regulators in all cars so they don't go above 75 mph. After all if we don't, we are "throwing up our hands and saying it's OK to live in an dangerous society with all the insurance problems we have because God forbid we require car manufacturers to take a tiny bit of responsibility for the product they are selling us." See how damn ridiculous that sounds?

How long until the gov't says 30 grams of fat in a Quarter Pounder? Well that is too many so you have to stop selling those.

If you want to eat healthy all the time, don't eat out. As one chef said on FoodTV's "Next Iron Chef," said when he put a half a stick a butter in a dish, "we are their cooks, not their doctors."

bnb614

They do take responsibility for their food. When was the last time you got botulism from your Enchirtacoito Supreme?

And let's say consumers do get provided with all the nutritional data you desire (not just caloric data, even, again, which I'm not opposed to.) What happens when little benefit is detected and surprise, surprise, people continue eat to sate when they arrive hungry and in a hurry? Wholesale control and regulation of what the restaurant sells is the natural next step. And all in the name of public health, which apparently legitimizes just about any action government might take to some people.

burgundyyears

louisb3

But some people just don't have that kind of time. They've got kids, they're working multiple jobs with crazy schedules, maybe they've got other hobbies, don't know how to cook, etc. If we say, well, eating right is hard work and if those people don't feel like doing it, then tough noogies, we're throwing up our hands and saying it's OK to live in an obese society with all the health problems we have because God forbid we require restaurant owners, fast food or otherwise, to take a tiny bit of responsibility for the product they are selling us. All that would mean is just telling us what they already know about their food (and in the case of the small restaurant owners, I proposed that they provide some kind of access to the USDA's food database, or maybe the USDA could help them with their nutrition data in some other way). I just don't think that's so harsh. It's more like leveling the playing field just a little.

csdiego

gibbersome

gibbersome

twoply

As for saying don't eat fast food, that's fine (I don't) - but some people have trouble avoiding it. They have a commute, they can't seem to keep on top of making something and taking it with them (and, if you're thinking, I can do it, so can they, give yourself a medal), and options suck. I was in a nothing-but-strip malls part of a southern state recently, and talking to my recently-transferred-there boyfriend about how stunning it is that you can find pockets that just don't seem to have anything but fast food - I didn't even see that many grocery stores. A lot of people have jobs that don't allow them to eat very frequently, either, so by the time they get off work, it's just about getting food, now. (God knows I've resorted to fast food for that reason. I'm thin, but I have to eat something about every two hours. If I didn't live extremely close to where I work, I might resort more often to crappy options.)

I don't like a "nanny state," either, but give me a fucking break - slapping a few numbers (not for every conceivable combination - we can still force people to do their own math) on a menu is still in the realm of information. The posters most fast food restaurants are supposed to have, if they're there, have very tiny print, and I've seen many that were set halfway behind the counter - so you can lean over the counter and squint. I've *never* seen a fast food place in New York that had the nutrition pamphlets stocked. As for the internet, not everybody has access, and not everybody has the foresight to plan ahead. I would rather a culture where the information were available at the moment of decision - obsession with food creates other problems, and it's unnecessary and a bit gross to expect people to plan ahead, always. (I do, but I'm on medication to treat that problem.)

And, finally, to anyone who said mayonnaise is evil - I hope a contingent of Belgians and Japanese (Kewpie, my god, Kewpie) conspire to slap you. Mayonnaise, in proper amounts and properly made, is one of the best things to happen to food. (Most of what they hand out in fast food places isn't worth it, though - it is the margarine to mayonnaise's butter.)

camille_javal

Healthy eating shouldn't be a specialized, time-consuming hobby.

And herein lies part of the problem. Eating healthy actually does take some effort. Sorry, it just does.

(Lest I be misunderstood I'm not really opposed to calorie counts on menus, I just think it really needs to apply universally across restaurants in some fashion and even then will have little or noticeable effect. Most people eat to sate, not to reach their predetermined calorie total for the day.)

burgundyyears

I'm a fan of Chipotle. I used to have no idea how many calories were in my favorite burrito, but I thought it must be pretty healthy because all the ingredients were fresh. It was a classier burrito, so how bad could it be? When I did the research (it took some digging on the Internet) and found out that my favorite order had 1300 calories in it, I (a) realized why I had such a hard time finishing a burrito there, (b) stopped going there so often, and (c) switched to a healthier option when I did go. Not every consumer has the option of researching every meal ahead of time on the Internet. Healthy eating shouldn't be a specialized, time-consuming hobby.

And if labeling everything makes McD's go out of business, so what? Why should I care about McD's when it's never cared about me or my health? They're in the business of selling fried protein pucks with as many add-ons as possible; I'm in the business of looking out for my own health and well-being. If they close, their laid-off workers can just go to work at the salmon burger-and-lentil-soup place that will spring up down the road to replace McD's. Or if McD's is smart they will come out with their own salmon burgers and lentil soups, and not have to close at all. And if consumers don't care about calories and still demand Monster Thickburgers or whatever with enough calories to feed an Ethiopian village for a day, I'm confident that they will still be available.

This would be cake for chain restaurants, which already know the calorie and nutrient contents of all their food. Small restaurants that don't want to have to test all their food can provide terminals with access to the USDA food database, which can be beefed up a bit to cover common restaurant dishes and their components. It's the same research we'd be doing online, only the restaurant takes some responsibility for providing the information so it's easier to make good choices. Where there's a will, there's a way.

csdiego

The bottom line is, the people who really care about nutritional information already get it from web sites or brochures (which I do see in fast food restaurants in MI at least).

You think you can make people who don't really care about caloric intake start to care and change their eating habits by giving them three little numbers that are abstract to most individuals when they are hungry. And they want their food. now. Color me dubious.

Will we also need the recommended dietary guidelines be posted? Because lord knows a lot of people are out to lunch on how many calories they're even supposed to eat. And you'd better post nutrition data for serving sizes of each individual made to order option because some people clearly aren't clued in on the the whole mayonnaise = evil thing yet.

How about - and I actually kind of like this idea - doing a running tally on the cash register of the calories in your meal in a big ass font so as to advertise how poorly you eat and how thoughtless you are in wasting future health care dollars and in doing so invite the jeers and insults of fellow line dwellers on the wayward citizen. NOW we're talking behavioral change.

burgundyyears

If you allow people to eat as much as they want of a basket of whole bagels, they eat more than if you offer them half bagels because they assume that whatever is offered is the appropriate serving size. Since these restaurants advertise themselves as normal places to eat, people naturally assume that the middle size, average meal combination is approximately the number of calories a normal person should eat at a normal meal, but that isn't true. Yes, most people are making assumptions they shouldn't make, but that is a well known and natural human tendency.

The restaurants encourage people's erroneous assumptions through their advertising slogans and range of offerings, so they need to make the accurate information more visible.

tkr5

thalia

peggynature

(Hint: it wouldn't be so they could neurotically restrict their food intake and refer to mayonnaise as "evil.")

peggynature

Super Size Me (oh noes, I brought it up) had a scene in which the documentarians tried and failed to get nutritional info from about a half-dozen McDonalds. Given that I haven't seen any real studies, I'm inclined to believe that anecdotal evidence, along with my own experience of never seeing nutritional info available in restaurants. Both indicate that the whole "info is already available" argument is bullshit.

louisb3

1. Come to New York. I'll show you lots of successful fast-food restaurants.

2. As many people have pointed out, this legislation would increase flow of information, which helps consumers. Where is the restriction of choice?

3. When you visit NY, we'll go into several restaurants and I will laugh as you try to find the nutritional information. You'll find WMD before finding the "readily available" info.

Beerad

Beerad

biblio26

They don't do it that implicitly. They pass draconian laws that put undue burdens on businesses. You don't hear about the people who get laid off, or the companies that go out of business.

But I hope you understand that issues like national health care trump your smug sense of superiority and that information generally equals more choice, not less

There it is! My favorite excuse for why the government should control everything. The good old "national health care" excuse. People can't be trusted to make decisions because some of those are RISKY and affect everyone's healthcare so we have to regulate and legislate everything that we don't like.

You can get in your little dig that I have a smug sense of superiority, I am just aware of my surroundings. Let's face it, in 2007 if you are unaware that more and more people are overweight, and if you are unaware the fast food is extremely bad for you and unhealthy, then you are a moron and if you need someone to stand in front of you with a sign that says "1000 Calories" and push you out the door, in order to prevent you from eating McDonalds, then a menu board isn't going to stop you.

I'm sorry if you would be offended by calorie information being readily accessible

IT IS READILY AVAILABLE!!! In almost any McDonalds if you walk in, there is a poster hanging by the counter with the nutritional information.

A bunch of you keep repeating, we need MORE information AVAILABLE. It isn't MORE information, it is the same information that is currently AVAILABLE.

I get tired of everything in this country being debased to the lowest denominator to try and help idiots. There will always be idiots out there.

bnb614

burgundyyears

Rectilinear Propagation

I'm guessing he had a 12 inch sub with double meat and double cheese.

Rectilinear Propagation

"Labeling is an anti-business bill..." -- I don't even know what that statement means. Do you think politicians are honestly thinking "you know what the problem with our community is? BUSINESS! We need to reduce the amount of BUSINESS going on here!!"

I'm sorry if you would be offended by calorie information being readily accessible because you apparently don't want to be mistaken for a "moron" (which you seem to indicate means anyone who doesn't "research" the nutritional content of their lunch). But I hope you understand that issues like national health care trump your smug sense of superiority and that information generally equals more choice, not less.

Beerad

iamme99

Most of the time though, if I'm McDonalds I don't *want* to know what I'm eating. Which is fine because I only go a couple times a year.

HRHKingFriday

royal72

B) Mayo Evil? Delicious maybe, evil no. Not really that much different than adding oil and vinegar to your sandwich. Mayo gets overused, and a bad rap though."
QFT.

splendic

Mark my words, this will be much ballyhooed, the menus of mass-market restaurants will eventually be littered with calorie totals, and people's choices will not appreciably change. The information is out there already. The idea that providing calorie counts on the menu board itself is going to change people's decisions on what to eat is at best, highly speculative.

(Trust me, I once worked at Burger King. I saw and made the sandwich for the guy who once ordered the Double Whopper (this was in the pre-Tripple whopper era) with extra cheese and bacon and he was NOT going to be fazed by the 2000 calorie total or how ever god-awful high it was.)

burgundyyears

If you go to a chinese restaurant, the nutrition information won't be readily available. Why don't you push for that? Why punish the fast food companies in favor of their competitors?

Dumb laws like this are the reason New York and San Francisco are considered to unfriendly towards business. Labeling is an anti-business bill cloaked in the guise of food safety.

bnb614

B) Mayo Evil? Delicious maybe, evil no. Not really that much different than adding oil and vinegar to your sandwich. Mayo gets overused, and a bad rap though.

char

The calorie counts need to be on the big board, not buried in a brochure, on a web page or on the "sneeze guard".

It is a shame how many consumers are clueless about the calorie counts of what they eat.

Maybe instead of numbers showing calories, they should show the calories on a scale of people images, from thin to fat to obese? [lol]

iamme99

Instigator

Really people, ask yourself who this is truly going to help (considering these companies already provide this info). This info is readily available on the internet and on separate menu boards. People who eat fast food on a regular basis are certainly not going to be deterred by having the unhealthy facts right in their face. They already know it's unhealthy but, for whatever reason, continue to eat it. This may deter the occasional fast food eater who also knows its unhealthy but is a bit more conscentious of the fact.

Now, granted, I'm not a fan of Big Fast Food but this does smell of the Rob Reiner Anti-Smoking Crusade a la South Park. Start telling everyone how bad it is, then get labels to point out how unhealthy it is, then produce a bunch of biased scientific studies proving your point, then try to get it outlawed.

ancientsociety

JeannieGrrl

Nanny state is code for you are a moron so the government needs to protect you from yourself. If you need a clearer definition, let me know, and I will text you a message later while speeding down the highway with a cigarette in one hand and a Big Mac in the other.

bnb614

kimsama

The caloric content of Subway's sandwiches do include cheese & mustard. At least that's what is on the cups / napkins of the one down the road that I eat lunch at 3 times a week or so.

Jaysyn was banned for: http://consumerist.com/5032912/the-subprime-meltdown-will-be-nothing-compared-to-the-prime-meltdown#c7042646

good point. why is it that people are seemingly incapable of making decent decisions on their own these days, be it with food, money, raising their kids, etc? do people really not know that a cheeseburger is 500+ calories, and that you shouldn't eat one everyday??

protest

DeeJayQueue

quagmire0

elf6c

JKinNYC

XianZomby

3drage

Greg P

uricmu

But if somebody didn't know that his 300calories sub may be "augmented" by the mayo and cheese. well...

uricmu

Anyway, I'm all for the labeling laws. Been a month or two since everyone's pounded this dead horse, though, so prepare to read 80 more comments debating the merits.

Beerad

mayo (in it's most basic form) is egg yolk and oil, so if you've ever eaten a salad with dressing, or eggs for breakfast, you've ingested the main ingredients of mayo except in greater quantities and not mixed together.
mayo is no more evil than cheese, or soda, or ground beef. people just need to not use so damn much at once.

protest

Most people know what is good for them and what is bad for them and choose to ignore it, and labelling menus won't change that.

bnb614

I think the guy from Wendy's was dead-on when he said they are punishing companies that made the information available. Fast food companies went to the effort to get detailed calorie and nutrition information for its products and have made brochures, wall posters, and posted the data online. So if you want to find out nutritional data, you can find the data. WHen was the last time you went into a fast food restaurant and a person went up and ordered and said, "hold on, I need to check the nutrition info." Give me a break, it is fast food, not a raw vegetable platter.

But that doesn't go far enough for food police and so they want to force the fast food companies to put the data up on the menu.

Who would be exempt from the law? Non-fast food restaurants like mom and pop eateries, etc, because it would be too costly for them to compile the data. So the fast food companies are being punished for being proactive.

I want to see the food police go after all restaurants if they think this data is important. Make mom and pop restaurants, pizza joints, chinese food restaurants, etc fork over the $$ to do the research and be forced to post it. Then when tons of businesses go out of business and people lose their jobs, the nanny state will reach the ultimate goal they want. Less choice.

bnb614

Shinobuu

2) when a Subway rep went with Leslie Stahl to subway to order a sandwich and they couldn't find the calorie count for adding mayo to your sandwich. It was in a brochure the subway guy had instead of anywhere obvious.

He

The law itself is kind of nitpicky, but full disclosure, in a viewable location is good by me.

char

Proof:
[edition.cnn.com]

ironchef

Hamm Beerger

JKinNYC

Also, at a place like subway, where everything is made to order with a vast array and combination of condiments, I can't help but wonder if someone still thinks they'll be getting their 300 calorie sub after loading it with mayonnaise and cheese.

burgundyyears

JKinNYC