[flsenate.gov]>2007->Ch0812->Section%20015#0812.015

RChris173

levyzoo

I was recently stopped and detained at a local Best Buy for refusing to show my receipt. Additionally, I was physically escorted to the LP office by LP personnel, my arm twisted behind my back. A side note - the "buzzers" on the anti-theft gizmos did NOT go off...it's a good thing, too, as that would have constituted probable cause under the laws of my state.

There's no additional info here: I simply said "No, thanks" when they demanded to see my receipt. They stopped me, refused to allow me to leave, and I said, "I'll tell you what: I'll wait here while you check the register at which I made my purchase (I even identified the register), or you can apprehend me for shoplifting, or you can let me leave the store with the merchandise I have purchased. Which is it going to be?" I never raised my voice or made any sort of threatening gestures. They chose door #2 and apprehended me for shoplifting.

After detaining me for over 30 minutes, the police arrived, checked my receipt, and said I was free to leave. I asked that the LP person who grabbed me be arrested for simple assault, but the police officer said that he could only arrest individuals for assault in domestic violence incidences unless he was a witness to the act.

I called Best Buy immediately upon arriving home. I even submitted a complaint on their website. Over the next several days, I continued to call Best Buy to complain, but no one would accept or return my call. What did I want? Not a big lawsuit, just an apology for being treated like a thief, embarassed in the store, and being mistreated in the LP office. I guess they thought I would simply go away, but that was not to be.

After a couple of weeks, I contacted my attorney. When I sat down and met with him for the first time, he asked, "Why didn't you just show them your receipt?"

Many of you may disagree, but this is what I said:

"Agreeing to show them my receipt takes away yet another civil liberty of mine. It is my opinion that every time a person allows a civil liberty to be intruded upon, society as a whole loses."

But there's more: I had always allowed stores to check my receipt -- I thought I had no choice. About 4 months prior to this incident, I was shopping Best Buy and selected a computer for purchase. Upon reaching the checkout, I presented my signed Visa card. I was asked for my ID, and for reasons that go beyond the scope of this letter, I didn't have it. I informed the cashier that they really couldn't ask for ID if my signature matched. They told me they would not accept my Visa unless I had ID. The computer I was trying to purchase was on sale, so I schlepped back home, got my Driver's License, retuened to BB and made my purchase. Because the box was large and I have a bad back, I asked the guy checking me out if someone could help load the box into my truck. They said "Sure", and we headed for the door. We were met with a line of about five or so people, all submitting to receipt checks. It took over ten minutes to get out of the store because of some confusion with one of the customers.

I called the corporate office of BB the next day to complain about the whole ID thing. I got a senior LP guy on the phone who apologized for the inconvenience. I also complained about having to wait at the door to have my receipt checked. He said, "Sorry about that. We check receipts to make sure cashier's have not made an error. It's a voluntary process."

What? I asked, "So, I don't have to show my receipt when I exit the store?"

"We ask that you do, but as I said, it's voluntary. We can't make you show your receipt unless you set off the theft sensors."

I researched the law in my state, and though it clearly states that the sensors going off constitutes probable cause, it says nothing about receipts. It was then that I decided to stop showing my receipts except at stores where I had contractually agreed to allow them to do so (Sam's, Costco), or unless I set off the sensors.

Back to the story: I've filed a lawsuit and have spent about $15k so far. BB continues to allege that they are allowed to detain customers for failing to show receipts. We have supboened their "receipt check policy" which explicitly states that if a customer says "no" to a receipt check, the BB employess is to say "Thank you for shopping at Best Buy. Have a nice day." It seems that they are trying to use my case to set precedent.

So, there's my story. All I ever wanted was an apology for being mistreated. Seems they aren't into issuing apologies.

The moral? As the story is still incomplete, all I can say is that you had better be prepared to fight a lengthy legal battle should one of those goons actually detain you for failing to show a receipt. BB has deep pockets...fortunately for me, I do, too.

I'll keep you updated.....

LovinItAll

BonnieT.

Incorrect, the merchant agreement requires merchants to accept the payment card as per the association rules. Cardmembers are bound to the terms setfourth by their lending bank, however merchants are bound to adhere to the merchant agreement which outlines acceptance policies.

Visa and Mastercard strictly enforce their terms. A cardmember must report the violation to their issuing bank, who will then relay the encounter to the appropriate area. It's called "Card Supression" and ID as a condition of the sale, surcharging and/or imposing minimums are not tolerated.

Helvetian

srhb

While you may be right in principle, what you did doesn't show a lot of common sense.

1) You pocketed the receipt, even though the cashier warned you that store personnel might want to see your receipt since you were sans bag.

2) You left the store through a means other than the exit, thereby circumventing store security measures and raising suspicion.

How much would it have cost you (in time and in moral concessions) to hold up the receipt as you proceeded through the exit? Instead, it took a lot longer to walk around the parking lot arguing with store personnel.

I am not defending Best Buy because they suck. Nor do I care to have stores where I shop treat me like a criminal.

But I think you just wanted to provoke a confrontation because you COULD.

acambras

I'm not sure why the pro-receipt checker commenters charactere "whining," "antagonizing" the checkers, etc. as the only alternatives to not having your receipt checked.

I don't "whine" or "antagonize" anyone. I simply walk out the door. Nobody's ever hassled me about it, except to sometimes call "excuse me" behind me as I exited.

I've got more important things to worry about, I just want to leave the store and get on with my day.

gaelenmag

I went into Best Buy™ to buy a wireless internet router for my father-in-law-to-be. [Father-in-law-to-be has ENTIRELY too many hyphens!]

Anyway, I was already running late because I had to meet Rach and her 'rents at the house at 3pm so we could all go meet the wedding photographer.
The point is that I was, you know... in a hurry!

So I picked out the router and paid for it at the mobile phone / PDA counter. I paid there because there was no line, and also because if you go up front, they always want your phone number and they offer you subscriptions to magazines you don't want. So why bother with that? Once I'd paid, the guy tried to put the router in one of those clear bags they use, but it was too big. So he just gave the box to me raw along with the receipt, and suggested that they'd want to check it. This is important...

Now things get interesting. Anyone that's been in a Best Buy™ knows that there are two sets of double doors separated by a small foyer: there's two IN doors you go through to enter the store, and two OUT doors you pass through to get, uh... OUT. There's also one of those SensorMatic® thingies at the OUT door that you're supposed to pass through that beeps if it thinks you've stolen something. AND, just to make SURE, there's a guy sitting at the OUT door that asks to see your receipt. You know, for your convenience. [Right.]

But I was in a hurry!

:)

And besides. *I* knew I paid. There's an electronic record of my payment at the register. And there's security cameras all around. Why should I hassle myself with a receipt check at the door? In this country, we are innocent until proven guilty, so why should I have to bother proving my innocence just to leave the store? Oh, and did I mention I was in a hurry?

You can see where this is going...

So I put the receipt in my pocket and took the box and went to the front of the store. But instead of going through the OUT door, I waited just 5 second for new visitors to enter the store, thus opening the IN door for me from their side. I slid through the first IN door, crossed over the foyer, and left via the proper OUT door. This had two Really Neat Benefits™: first, I didn't have to be scanned by that SensorMatic® thingie to prove my innocence, and second, I didn't have some minimum wage "security" guy there trying to stop me from leaving before he saw my receipt.

Anyway, I slipped right out of the store, purchase in hand, and started walking at a normal human person pace towards my car.

I got about 10 seconds into the parking lot.

"Sir? SIR!"

I stopped and turned around to see a woman hurrying towards me. "Sir, I need to see your receipt."

To which I calmly and politely replied, "oh, no thank you," and turned around and continued walking. I'm nothing if not polite. This didn't make the nice woman very happy though.

"Sir, I need to SEE your RECEIPT please," she insisted. She was now even with me in the parking lot, and I could see her nametag. Myra. She was one of the managers, but I never did figure out if she was the head manager. [Turns out she wasn't, by the way.] By this time, two more Best Buy™ employees were hurrying over as "backup," one of whom was the receipt checker guy that I slipped by.

I calmly asked Myra if there was a problem, and she said, "you could have just taken that off the shelf! And if you'd just have shown me your receipt in the first place, we'd be done with this!" She was starting to raise her voice now. Not to mention, she just implied that I was a thief! RUDE, I tell you! So much for being in a hurry, but she'd lain the gauntlet down. To protect my honour, I now felt it imperative to prove a point to Myra. There was no way Myra was going to see my receipt now!

"Are you suggesting I stole this?" I asked her. Myra told me that if I didn't produce a receipt that she would take my license plate number down as I left the parking lot. I asked her if this was the way Best Buy™ treated all their customers, and she said, "just the annoying ones." A manager! Insulting the customer!

"Look Myra," I said, "I'm really late, and I'm gonna go now."

"Are you really late, or are you just TRYING to be annoying?" she continued.

The employee next to her, a girl, said, "he's being annoying." I mean, shit, if the manager can insult the customer, it's okay for her to do it too, right?

I told Myra that she had every right to ask for my receipt. ["Darn right I do!" she agreed.] I also told her that according to the law, I also had the right to decline her. She insisted store policy commanded me to comply with her, but since when does store policy trump the law? She wasn't happy about this and threatened to take my license plate number down again.

Now, if I had more time, like all afternoon, I would have let them follow me to my car. Except instead of walking to the car, I'd have led them on a merry chase [a slow one, mind you] though all corners of the parking lot, only to end up at the Staples™ next door. Ah, maybe for another day...

Instead, I made Myra's job easy: I told her my license plate number! Not only THAT, but whipped out my wallet and flashed my ID for her. She was furiously writing all this down on her hand, and I helpfully made sure she spelled my name correctly. She suggested that I wouldn't be welcome to shop at that store in the future.

And then I politely bid Myra and the Subordinates good day, and left.

Now, you might argue that it would have been much faster to show my receipt. And it would have, this time. There have been other times and other stores that I've slipped out without going through security. In fact when at all possible, I make sure that at least my purchases go around the SensorMatics® in stores, even if I can't. And when there's alternate ways out of a store, like those shower curtain thingies at some Wal-Marts™ that they use to shuttle carts in and out, I go through them.

Don't make me prove I didn't steal something. You prove I did. It's the PRINCIPLE of the thing, dammit. And I ran THIS particular incident up through the customer service line at Best Buy™ corporate. I wanted a personal apology from Myra for:

1. Accusing me of theft
2. Threatening to call the police, and
3. Insulting me, and in so doing making it okay for her subordinate to also insult me.

I'll go to the ends of the earth to prove a point. Does that make me a bad person? :)

The general manager of the Best Buy™ store called me on my mobile a few days later. Brendon was a pretty nice upbeat guy, and I told him the entire story of what happened last week.

Now at first, he was all into the "we catch shoplifters every day and we gotta protect our assets" schpiel, but he had quite a different tune when I explained how Myra and Company had treated me.

He apologised profusely and assured me that not only was I of course welcome back in the store, but that he'd be going over procedures with Myra and her buddies. An apology! Yay! I win!

Mwahahaha!!!

He did admit that my particular situation was one he'd never run across before, so maybe I get points for originality. He also said that if I ever see him personally while I'm in the store to come up and say hi. Now granted, a nice gesture to be sure, but I bet he REALLY wants to put a face with the name.

That's okay, I can do that for him. He treated me well. Besides... I bet I never get questioned at that store again. I've got them trained!

Mike

P.S.: ...would it be bad form to give Myra a raspberry next time I see her?... [just kidding! sort of!]

Mike

Store frequented by full-grown adults I become very chilly and irate if they insist they check my receipt. And a luxury store that treats me that way will lose my business.

Eyebrows McGee

Pelagius

In most states there is a "shopkeeper's privilege" that permits merchants to detain customers if such merchants reasonably suspect the customers of having taken merchandise. This limited privilege precludes prosecution of an action against the merchants in such situations (though whether there existed reasonable suspicion might be a fact question. Some statutes presume reasonable suspicion if the customer is found with concealed merchandise. The particular statute noted above has to do with an element of theft crimes: the intent to deprive the possessor thereof. If you've concealed the item, then it is presumed you intended to steal it. That does *not* appear to be the N.J. definition of shoplifting.

@DeeJayQueue

Even the cops can't stop you unless they're pretty sure beyond a reasonable doubt that you've done something wrong. It's called "innocent until proven guilty."

That's manifestly incorrect. The police can stop you with a reasonable suspicion, which in the criminal context is a very low standard. Beyond a reasonable doubt is the standard for criminal conviction, not a stop. Moreover, the police are generally protected by qualified immunity, meaning they have to do something exceptionally egregious for you to have any cause of action (typically under 42 U.S.C. § 1983). Finally, the 3rd Amendment has to do with the quartering of troops in private homes during peacetime. I think you mean the Fourth Amendment and private actors cannot violate the Fourth Amendment; it is a check on the government only.

@Mike_

The Visa merchant guidelines are an agreement between the merchant and Visa, not you. While you are conceivably a 3rd party beneficiary, I doubt you would have any recourse if a merchant refused your card because you didn't show ID. Merchants do lots of things that they aren't technically allowed to do under those agreements (minimum amounts, for example).

@jwissick

I never stop for the reciept checkers. Except at costco and only because I agreed to when I joined.

There is a misconception here, and you're not the only one who seems to have it. Contracts need not be written. Ever walk into a store that has a big sign out front with some conditions? By shopping there, you may be agreeing to those conditions (you're an invitee, and your permission to be present can be limited in most cases). Some state laws may not allow this, but in many states you may have agreed to a search.

John Jenkins

No, we're the type of people who don't like the worst motives being assumed about us, which is exactly what these stores are doing (and which you just did with that statement). I personally don't think the world is out to screw me, and I find most of my experiences while shopping to be pleasant. I actually write thank you notes to companies and their employees for providing great service. But I also let them know when I have a complaint, because they ask me to provide them feedback and assure me that they are committed to improving the shopping experience for everyone.

Michael

However, when they want to check my receipt I usually ask "Why? Do you think I've stolen something?" They of course say "No!"
I say "Then you don't need to see my receipt." and walk out.

If you don't defend your rights, someone will take them away. They'd be foolish not to.

And I don't believe they're trying to stop cashier fraud or they'd look closer at the merchandise rather than just making sure the number of items is correct.

But everything is done half-assed at this CompUSA, so I could be mistaken.

Zadaz

After all, if the receipt checker's one marketable job skill is to stand at the exit of a door and look at people's receipts, who am I to stand in the way of them plying their trade?
If they're efficient and pleasant, it's not that big of a deal.

The only time I've ever had any trouble was while exiting the Union Sq Circuit City. I didn't see the guard (because he was standing off to the side milling about) and he yelled at me as I had one foot out of the door. I responded that if he's supposed to be checking receipts he should be standing near the exit. He then started yelling at me that he knew how to do his job and that I shouldn't be telling otherwise.

It was very exciting.

Now when I go there I just conceal my legally purchased goods in my bag before I leave the checkout area. No one seems to care about that.

john_nyc

medalian1

Actually, yes. I'm sick of corporations assuming that THEY have all the rights and I, as a customer, have none.

I just read where the police in some part of Great Britain are now going to put microphones alongside the cameras that already spy on people. At what point do we say that we no longer live in a free society?

Perhaps you feel that I'm exaggerating, but we all draw the line at some point, and mine is being treated like a criminal by a store I've given my money to. If you can't figure out a better way to cut your theft loss than treating all your customers like suspected shoplifters, well, I'm not going to play along.

crankymediaguy

North of 49

I absolutely agree that I should not necessarily need an ID to use a proprly activated and signed credit card. However, it seems to be common sense to me that if a card is unsigned, and the customer refusesto show ID, the retailer has every right to reject the sale (regardless of how the merchant terms are written), because the card "is not valid" without a signature. I.E., the signature is a condition of acceptance.

InsaneNewman

- "Will I be detained if I don't permit you to review my receipt?"
- "I'm sorry; you have already taken up too much of my time. I spent 20 minutes in your check-out line and I am not waiting in another line"
- "I am sorry. My three month old twins are in the back-seat of the Geo. I was here much longer then I had planned on today" (Phoenix gets warm at times. Downside is they might really call the police).
- Bypassing the line completely, walking past everyone in line and ignoring the receipt checkers.

Last Valentines Day, I found myself at Costco picking over the fresh cut flowers in a last minute attempt to squeak by another year without making elaborate and romantic plans for the evening. After spending 15 minutes in the check-out line behind an unshaven gypsy-type who frenetically challenged every price on every item in her cart, it was my turn to pay. I paid quickly (cash) and made it towards the exit.

To my dismay I found no fewer then 14 customers in line while two disheveled Costco employees checked receipts. As I got closer to the front of the line I could hear one of the employees commenting on the merits of customers purchases and polling the men about their plans that evening with their "Valentine". The second receipt checker had a bit of a palsy and wasn't quite up to moving merchandise from side to side in the cart, she feigned tallying the merchandise and weakly scribbled a check on the receipt. She sent each customer out the door with the admonition to have a "Blessed Day!"

This wait was becoming way too much for me. I had enough guilt and self-loathing in me at that moment (for buying roses from Costco and failing to make any plans for the evening) that I was able to re-direct my anger towards Costco, their fascist policies and their absurd hiring practices. I skipped the line and purposely headed for the door, holding my receipt in front of me. As I got toward the door I was warned by the more cogent of the two employees that I must wait in line like everyone else. I disagreed and told her "I had already paid and I wasn't going to wait any longer". As I left I heard vague disagreement from people still standing in line and heard the receipt checker yell something about the police and customer service.

I had parked a considerable distance from the store and quickly headed towards my car. As I got to my car I popped the trunk and set the flowers inside the trunk. As I turned around I found myself face to face with a giantess who had some type of a Supervisor title on her name tag. She told me I had to come back and get in line to have my receipt checked. I told her that I didn't have to and asked to move because I was getting into my car and driving away. She then demanded to see my Costco membership card and my receipt. I told her I wasn't going to show her either and again told her I was leaving. She then stated I had agreed to show my receipt whenever (while shopping at Costco) asked when initially I signed up for a membership. I told her I hadn't agreed to that and she should check my application. She then told me my Costco membership was revoked and asked my name. I again told her I was leaving and asked her to move aside. She then got on her radio and asked for another type of supervisor to assist her. I took the opportunity to slowly back-up and leave the parking lot.

Not much of a story but a true experience. I still wonder if I agreed to show my receipt when asked by a Costco employee as a condition of my membership. I spoke with a judge friend of mine who made a vague reference to a law in Arizona which allows retailers to detain individuals until the police show up. He stated the way the law is written the retailers can basically hold you against your will and they are not guilt of false imprisonment. (He said it is pretty simple to get a law passed in Arizona and the retailers lobbied for this law several years ago). I haven't verified this either.

My membership was never revoked, I still shop at Costco and I haven't broke line and headed towards the door since Valentines Day. I have had my thrill and I actually fear getting smacked down by my wife if I try such a daring stunt in her presence.

spud

Triteon

I hope fry's tries to stop me... I would love the payday. I know I am not stealing anything, always check my reciept before I leave the counter, and have no desire to help them catch thieves until they improve customer service.

Fry's is one skanky store. They love to break the law and never want to help you. Returns are a hassle there and the employees never know what they are talking about.

jwissick

When dealing with goons, it's usually helpful to make the name or policy sound official. Simply stating "this is not allowed" is usually not enough. You must point out the official terminology to sound more informed. Whenever a merchant says "min $10 purchase," I say "Excuse me? That is a clear violation of Visa International's Global Acceptance standard and is considered 'card suppression.'" I've never been forced to present ID or comply to a min amount.

And finally, receipts; I absolutely refuse to show them at all. It is about my rights and I will not renounce my right in the name of a store's LP issues. That is their own issue to deal with.

For me, it's the equivalent of permitting police officers into your home to search due to a neighbor being robbed. The police just want to make sure it wasn't you or that you have any of the stolen goods. Despite not having anything to hide, I would never consent to having my home searched nor my person. It may sound dramatic, but no I will not show my receipt. It's in my bag or wallet.

Helvetian

Mr. No49 walked through with the older two kids and didn't get dinged just after watching another customer getting interrogated.

Mrs. No49, however, had the bars go off when she and the baby were the only ones going through. But, since LP was busy with the previous dinger, she just kept right on walking. No one stopped her or chased after her. If they had grabbed her, she was going to go straight to the media and tell them off. She had the walmart receipt, not the Mr. So if she was stopped, it would have been unlawful detainment.

But if the bars keep on going off, maybe there's something wrong with the desensitizing thing at the checkouts? That would make more sense than a series of shoplifters.

North of 49

Idiots.

ajn007

RE: Credit card ID
I have no problem with showing ID with checks (there is no signature to compare). However, I get really ticked off when cashiers insist upon a photo ID when using my card; I usually don't argue with the cashiers though (unless I can tell that they are managers of some sort). To help remedy this, I got one of those cards with my photo and signature already on it. Now when stores insist on seeing my ID in addition to the photo card, I get beyond angry. My usual policy in those situations is to have the cashier cancel the purchase, and walk out the door. The VAST majority of credit card fraud is electronic, NOT somebody swiping your card and trying to use it at CompUSA. Plus, the two times I had a fraudulent charge on my card, a simple 10-minute call cleared it up.

schwnj

So, I guess I still don't see an issue with it in most cases. If you don't like the way a company does business, then stop going to that company. If they don't appreciate your business, there's always somewhere else you can go that will.

Elara

Gari N. Corp

When should you ask a cardholder for an official government ID?

Although Visa rules do not preclude merchants from asking for cardholder ID, merchants cannot make an ID a condition of acceptance. Therefore, merchants cannot refuse to complete a purchase transaction because a cardholder refuses to provide ID. Visa believes merchants should not ask for ID as part of their regular card acceptance procedures. (p.29)

... kinda like how nothing precludes merchants from asking to see your receipt, but merchants cannot make reviewing your receipt a condition of leaving the store.

Mike_

Triteon

Similarly (at least in Oregon) they can't even stop you if the security gates go off. According to what I found when researching this, in Oregon, the only reliable way to detain/search someone and not face a losing lawsuit, you have to SEE THEM take something and then not lose sight of them until they leave the store. It's an incredibly high standard. Fred Meyer here actually got sued because they pressured people into believing that they were required by law to stop when a security alarm went off. It's NOT TRUE. If they want you to stop, take off all your clothes, find whatever bullshit thing caused it to beep, make them arrest you. Otherwise, just say no. I once had a pair of jeans that made security gates beep at a few places when I wore them. It was very strange, but I got very tired of dealing with it. So I just stopped.

plumpy

Yes, they WILL say "OK" and let you go. It's called "probable cause." Because, recent developments aside, we still live in a reasonably free country.

Kilgore Trout

Ya--- great! So you think that it is reasonable to assume that someone who declines to give permission to have their person or property searched is, therefore, suspicious?

Obviously anyone who the police talk to who decline to speak without a lawyer are guilty---after all, if you have nothing to hide then there's no possible way anything they found or you said could possibly be used against you. /sarcasm

It's that very kind of logic being propagated that puts the government in a position to degrade the rights of honest citizens.

Kornkob

Nobody has the right to stop you or detain you or search you. The only time the police can is if they have "probable cause" in other words, they see you doing something wrong or the see contraband on you or someone you're with. If you're not a cop, this rule doesn't apply to you.

It might seem like the people who are against their stuff being checked are acting antagonistically but they're defending their 3rd amendment rights. If we start to give them up routinely at the checkout line then we'll just start taking for granted that we don't have them anymore at all.

The people who set policy for LP departments in retail stores DO see every customer as a potential shoplifter, and that's how they train their people to act as well. This is why they have blanket rules like receipt checking and bag checking at stores. They think everyone who walks in the door could be stealing from them at any given second.

These are the rules that the honest people who actually pay for things and keep the buisness' doors open are upset about.

If a policy sucks and enough people complain about it with their voices and their wallets, the policy will change.

DeeJayQueue

ElPresidente408, when they ask if they can search your car, they're asking you to waive your Fourth Amendment rights. If you say no, and they don't have probable cause, they absolutely have to say "ok" and let you go. Refusing to waive your rights does not give them probable cause.

If I refuse to show my receipt to Best Buy, they have a choice: accuse me of something, or let me go. If they're going to accuse me of something, they'd better have more proof than me just not feeling like being detained for a receipt check at the door.

Mike_

If the receipt check is meant to thwart thieves, it has a nearly 100% false-positive rate. Most customers are not thieves, and most thieves know how to evade detection. Therefore, the "drag net" is mostly a nuisance to the innocent. I like the "ignore them" approach.

If the purpose of the receipt check is to verify you got everything you paid for, the representative should politely offer (not request) to double-check your purchase for accuracy. It should be phrased in such a way that the most common response is "no thank you". (Of course, they don't check your receipt as a courtesy.)

There are less invasive ways to improve security. These businesses should chose methods that don't leave the impression they presume every customer is a potential criminal. If more people objected to the post-purchase inspection, they'd be forced to come up with something less obnoxious and more effective.

Anyway, I say just ignore them. If you didn't steal anything, you have nothing to worry about. They're better off leaving you alone, rather than risk falsely accusing or detaining you without any actual evidence.

Mike_

At Target we have a poster that says "It takes 5 GPS units to make up for the loss of 1". If you set off the detector on your way out, security has every right to make sure you're not hiding something in that luggage you just bought. Theft is a big problem in retail stores. What's stopping you from having a friend ring you up for only half your merchandise? If you have a problem with receipt checks, blame everyone who's decided to steal before you, not the store. The more a store has lost to theft, the stricter they'll be with receipt checking.

ElPresidente408

My purpose in the store is to buy something. I go to the shelf, I pick out what I want, I go to the cashier, I pay for it. I'm terribly sorry to hear that these stores have a huge problem with theft both external and internal, but it is not my problem nor is it that of the hundreds or thousands of paying customers they see every day. I would venture to say that most of us are somewhat perplexed that our refusal to be treated like thieves on our way to the parking lot would "antagonize" anyone but the basest of control freaks who view customer = enemy.

dantsea

I can never understand why anybody would have a problem with an employee checking an ID for a credit card purchase. It's not a "no-no", it's how stores cover their asses and prevent problems for customers. Checking an ID for a non-signed card (which, on the back of the card it clearly states that the card is not valid unless signed) or checking an ID when a a signature does not match is how stores prevent fraud.

I hope that stores ask for my ID because it makes me hope that if my credit card ever did get stolen, they thief would not be able to make purchases with my card.

Back to the topic and hand, though, in Circuit City in Virginia, they were very strict about retaining people. Basically the rule was that you had to see a person take an item, conceal it, keep them in view the entire time they have the item on them (so you know that they couldn't have put it down), and then you have to witness them pass the last point of sale terminal towards the exit. Only if all of those conditions are met can a person be stopped.

The risk of being sued is greater than the cost of the item being stolen, in most cases.

rbf2000

I have noticed at the local Best Buy, the guy sitting at the entrance purposefully makes eye contact with you and says hello. Not because he's being nice, but because somewhere buried in shoplifting research, there's a paragraph that says once people have been recognized and acknowledged by store staff, they're less apt to shoplift.

I agree...it's a pain in the ass, but I don't feel like challenging it every time I go in there. So, if you're listening, Best Buy, that's one of the reasons I shop online. I only go into Best Buy if I have no other choice. Maybe I'll just stop going in altogether.

If the purpose of the "check your receipt" guy is truly to prevent cashier fraud, then maybe they should explain that. People are a lot more understanding if they understand that there's another purpose for a certain procedure other than the store thinking their own loyal paying customers are thieves.

☠Gяяя I love funky unicode symbols☺RRR!

Shoplifting is a major problem for any store. Check-out clerks are not infallible and are sometimes dishonest, especially where high-ticket items can be very small and easily hidden. Sometimes, honest mistakes are made (i.e., something you bought didn't get put into your bag). In less than 10 seconds, the store is reducing theft (which helps keep prices lower) and helping to avoid mistakes.

Yes, if can be annoying, but, big deal. Is your life soooo important that a delay of a few seconds is going to ruin your day?

Yes, if you want, you can just march right past these people and they cannot stop you -- that is your right. But why? Why go out of your way to antagonize people? Because you can? Wow. You people who get so bent out of shape by something so minor as this, which is, in part, to assist you, must lead very sad lives where you are looking at every slight as a personal insult. You are the type of people who always assume the worst motives in other people and assume everyone is out to screw you, and then cannot figure out why the world isn't more friendly.

Brianron

They repeatedly ignored me inside while I was trying to get a couple pieces of merchandise (a usb to 802.11b dongle) which had pissed me off enough to not bother and to just checkout with the random crap I had.

I ended up buying a pot and a floor fan. If I didn't have people coming over in an hour and a half, I would have risked arrest for the payday for this detention (25 minutes I believe).

--Michael

gte910h

So, yeah, don't stop if you don't want to.

RumorsDaily

DaveB

It's not there for preventing purposeful theft, but instead accidental mistakes which can cost the store money. It's not about treating people like criminals, but instead treating their own employees like morons... which is sadly often the case.

Trae

A few months ago, at a local CompUSA store, it was dead inside, I was the only customer at the registers, purchased only one fairly large item, the door checker watched me do it and pay for it, and still insisted on checking my receipt.

Sometimes I wonder if it's more to check the honesty of the cashiers than the general public.

weave

informer

Basically, I want them to stop me (physically or otherwise) so that I can blabber a bit at their boss about the immorality of the situation. No such luck so far :(

inzain

I'm willing to bet that a paid plain-clothes security guard or two would be FAR more effective than the idiot up front checking receipts.

As far as Fry's / Best Buy / etc., I'm not sure why people shop there anymore. Their prices aren't good, staff are often immature/untrained/unknowledgable, and the whole transaction is generally a pain in the ass. Don't get me started on them asking for my ID when I'm using a credit card (a big no-no with Visa/MC). The less service I receive in the retail stores, the more I'm liking online shopping.

//Side rant: Are the any good (sub)contractors anymore? The previous owner of my house hired some hack to replace the heat pump and in doing so, totally botched the install. I've called 9 contractors, telling all of them that I wanted to rip everything out and start from scratch and "money is no object." Out of those 9:

Only 7 of them actually bothered to show up. (You'd think the "money no object" line would have at least gotten them to show up)
Only 5 of them submitted quotes.
Only 2 of those quotes followed my specifications
Only 2 of the contractors bothered to go into the attic and look at the installation to see the extent of the damage and what a new system install would entail. Unfortunately, one of these two didn't submit a quote.
Only 1 of them actually understood how to do air con in Florida (humidity levels are the key, NOT temperature control in muggy but temperate Florida).

FLConsumer

Now, if LP hadn't checked, the customer would likely be stuck with the lower-spec CPU. If the customer tried to return the CPU, there'd be no way to tell who was scamming who, and they'd likely deny the return.

Karl

I just paid for my goods at the cash register, the place where a higher than usual concentration of store security observation takes place. They know what I did, they have it on tape, along with my name from my credit or debit card. When I get to the front door the register tape check is an implication that, in spite of all this observation, the default assumption is that I'm trying to steal from them. I resent that assumption and I do not participate.

To prove a point?

Yes.

And what point would that be, anyway?

That this paying customer doesn't appreciate being treated like a suspected shoplifter.

In my experience, stores only do this when they're having problems with shoplifters.

Not my problem. I paid.

dantsea

Kat

cryrevolution

Nobody has a right to detain and search you unless, just like the cops, they have probable cause- and if they don't, you can sue the pants off 'em, which Walmart (among others) has learned after trying it onn the wrong perswon. IOW, they can ask, and you can refuse- and if they insist, touch you, or detain you, consider it your Christmas bonus.

infinitysnake

I don't make a big scene, but I do just keep going through the door, unless the employee is blocking it. If the employee starts to freak out and try to stop me, I say, "I'm sorry, but after I purchased these items, they belong to me, and so does my receipt and my bag. You have dozens of cameras, a team of trained security professionals, and your cashier witnessed me purchasing all of these items. Now, I'll thank you to please step aside and allow me through, unless spending money in your store is a crime."

I don't blame the employees, but some points need to be made. Good customer service should be a huge priority for any store, and harassing the people who keep your company in business is despicable.

Michael

You've obviously never been to Fry's Electronics, where the obligatory receipt check takes longer, and when on a Saturday afternoon, there may be thirty people stacked up at the overworked dimwit checking receipts. Checkout and returns at Fry's take long enough; why should I take even more of my time to help them police loss prevention?

Plus, it's insulting. After spending several hundred dollars on one or two items, I'm not going to stop and waste more of my time waiting for someone to verify the number and types of items in the bag I walked all of fifty feet from the cash register with. The checkouts are all partitioned from high-dollar items like electronics in these stores anyway.

At Fry's my usual response is to avoid eye contact and walk right past the receipt checker. In one case, when he physically blocked my exit, I asked "am I suspected of something?", and he waved me by.

CaliforniaCajun

Elara