<![CDATA[Consumerist: Used Cars]]> http://cache.gawker.com/assets/base/img/thumbs140x140/consumerist.com.png <![CDATA[Consumerist: Used Cars]]> http://consumerist.com/tag/used cars http://consumerist.com/tag/used cars <![CDATA[ The 7 Most Fuel Efficient Used Cars Under $10,000 ]]> You're sick of your SUV and thinking of getting a car that's new to you, but which ones get the best gas mileage for the price? Consumer Reports has the answer — a list of the 7 most fuel efficient used cars for under $10,000.

Why buy used? Well, as CR says "depreciation accounts for 46 percent of the owner costs over a five-year period." Why not let someone else take the hit?

By focusing on a nearly-new model, say 2-3 years old, you can find a vehicle that offers comparable fuel economy, performance, safety, and reliability as a new car, often with some transferable warranty coverage remaining.

Amen! Anyway, here's the list. Some of the cars are older than 2-3 years, but hey. They're all under $10k.

Here's the list:

  1. 2000 Honda Insight (manual) 51 mpg
  2. 2001-02 Toyota Prius 41 mpg
  3. 2000-05 Toyota Echo 38 mpg
  4. 1998-2002 Chevrolet Prizm 32 mpg
  5. 1998 Mazda Protegé LX 32 mpg
  6. 1998-2000 Toyota Corolla LE 32 mpg
  7. 1998-2001 Acura Integra LS (manual) 32 mpg

Consumer Reports also has a list of the top cars from $10,000-$20,000, which you can view here.


Best used cars for fuel economy
[Consumer Reports]
(Photo: smcgee )

]]>
Tue, 12 Aug 2008 08:30:22 EDT Meg Marco http://consumerist.com/index.php?op=postcommentfeed&postId=5035736&view=rss&microfeed=true
<![CDATA[ 6 Things You Should Never Say To A Car Salesman ]]> There are few things in life that will test your mettle more than a savvy car salesman. He is a master manipulator and has a PhD in messing with your head. Even if you have checked out some confessions of a car salesman and carefully studied the evil "four-square" technique, there are still some things you could say that tell a salesman you are a soft target. CNN Money and Edmunds.com have put together a list of 6 things you should never say to a car salesman. The list, inside...

1. I love, love, love this car
Even if you fall in love with a car, maintain your composure and don't let the salesman realize it. It is easy for salesmen to manipulate you when they know that you will do almost anything to own the car.

2. I need to get a car by tomorrow
Even if you need the car quickly, act like there's no desperate need for the car. If he senses your desperation he will realize that you won't be thinking carefully about your choice and will accept most anything.

3. I need a monthly payment of...
The monthly payment is only one part of the equation. A salesman can give you that monthly payment and still rip you off in another area such as in the number of payments or trade-in value. Ideally, you should calculate what you can afford based on your monthly budget and expected trade-in value and negotiate that big number. Now, agree on a monthly payment and then negotiate any trade-in value.

4. My trade-in is outside
If you let him know it is outside he will want the keys. If the deal starts to go south, your keys may be somehow misplaced in which case you will be forced to listen to his sales pitch longer than you want to.

5. I don't know anything about leasing
Even if you don't plan on leasing a car, you should learn about leasing to help make you impervious to the salesman who may try to sell you the idea. Usually, leasing only makes sense if you know that you won't be keeping the car for several years. If you do plan to lease, you should be familiar with the costs of leasing beyond monthly payments. You should also be aware of how many miles are included in the lease and any money that needs to be paid up front or at the end of the lease.

6. My credit is a little spotty
Often, consumers underestimate their own credit score. Ideally, you should try to secure a loan you can use for "plan B" in case you don't like what the dealership has to offer. This gives you bargaining power and lets you know more clearly where you stand with your credit rating.

6 things never to tell a car salesman [CNN]

]]>
Tue, 08 Jul 2008 06:29:44 EDT Jay Slatkin http://consumerist.com/index.php?op=postcommentfeed&postId=5022768&view=rss&microfeed=true
<![CDATA[ 10 Best Resale Value Cars ]]> At fifty thousand dollars, buying a new Corvette can hurt—but on the plus side, after five years it will still retain a value of around 50% . That puts it among the top 10 best cars for resale value as compiled by CNN Money and based on Kelley Blue Book figures. Or if your budget is smaller, a Honda Civic Sedan costs around $19k and retains 52% of its value.

1. Corvette (50%)
2. Honda Civic Sedan (52%)
3. Infiniti G37 (52%)
4. Mini Cooper (52%)
5. Scion tC (52%)
6. Scion xB (52%)
7. Toyota Corolla (52%)
8. Volkswagen Eos (52%)
9. Volkswagen Jetta (51%)
10. Volkswagen Rabbit (51%)

It might seem a little odd that Volkswagen has three cars on the list, considering their "spotty reputation for reliability - the brand fairs poorly in J.D. Powers' annual rankings of long-term dependability." On the other hand, "Volkswagen's certified pre-owned program, recently rated the best by Intellichoice.com, may help boost resale values in the long term."

"Top 10 best resale value cars" [CNNMoney]
(Photo: Getty)

]]>
Mon, 19 Nov 2007 21:55:02 EST Chris Walters http://consumerist.com/index.php?op=postcommentfeed&postId=324692&view=rss&microfeed=true
<![CDATA[ 3 Confessions From A Former Used Car Salesman ]]> Patrick is a former used car salesman who grew a conscience. He has three tips to share with us:

1. Buy in December
2. Bring your own financing
3. Watch out for the squeeze play.

Learn more, inside...


Buy In December
First off, if you want the best deal on a car, everyone knows to wait until the dealership and salesmen are desperate - Guess what? That means December. No one is buying cars because most folks are focused on buying gifts for the family. Everyone from the General Manager to the poor bastards taking "ups" (walk up customers, usually the worst chance of a sale) is feeling the pressure to produce. Now is your time to extract your best deal. Go for everything.. lower interest rate, pricing concessions, free detailing, window tint. Whatever you can think of.

Bring Your Own Financing
It's very simple. Do you have a saving or checking account? Go to your financial institution and get "pre-qualified" . Your bank / Credit Union will give you a realistic idea of how much car you can afford to buy. You may not like what you hear, but you will be better off in the long run (witness the current meltdown over the sub-prime mortgage market) If you are pre-approved, you can shop for a vehicle in a realistic price range, and avoid the temptation of the buying too much car when the dealer flashes a "low payment" at you.

Watch Out For The Squeeze

This one absolutely broke my heart. It's been 10 years since it happened, and I remember it as clear as day. A hard working couple, "salt of the earth" type came down to Phoenix from the Grand Canyon (at least three hour trip) with the ancient station wagon they wanted to trade in for a newer car. They worked at a diner in the park, she waiting tables and he washing dishes. they saved their tips for a year in order to have a down payment. After walking the lot for a half hour, I enthusiastically showed them a 3 year old Nissan Sentra. Well within their price range, solid value, reliable, and easy on gas.

They went through our finance department, and we sent them home, assuring them that we would get the interest rate and payment promised, for the down payment they left with us.

Now the heartbreak. A week later I was called in to the sales managers office and told that I need to "squeeze" the customer - call them up, and tell them to come back to the dealership (3 hours one way drive) and either bring us more down payment, accept a payment double that of the one quoted, or give back the car. "Why", you ask?
Because the finance guys "made a mistake" and couldn't get their loan "done" with any lender.

But finance and the manager weren't concerned at all. They knew once the customer had driven the car for a few days, they would love it, and do almost anything to keep it.

I refused, and quit shortly afterwards."

Thanks, Patrick. Seems to jibe with what we've heard and talked about before. Bring your own financing is probably the most important tip. Otherwise you're going to also have to watch out for the four-square dealers use to rip customers off.

— BEN POPKEN

]]>
Tue, 17 Apr 2007 17:14:00 EDT Ben Popken http://consumerist.com/index.php?op=postcommentfeed&postId=253044&view=rss&microfeed=true
<![CDATA[ Dealerships Rip You Off With The "Four-Square," Here's How To Beat It ]]> Former used car salesman Alan Slone grows a conscience and reveals one of the major strategies dealership use to screw you when buying a new car.

At the heart of it all is the "4-square," a sheet of paper (sample above) divided into four boxes: your trade value, the purchase price, down payment, and monthly payment. This is supposed to help you and the dealership come to an agreement, but as you'll see, it's really more akin to three-card monte dealer's deck of cards. Many, but not all, dealerships use this tool.

Here's 5 tips to get you started, and then a very detailed breakdown of how the dealership manipulates buyers with the four-square.

1) GET YOUR FINANCING THROUGH THE CREDIT UNION BEFORE YOU EVEN STEP ON THE LOT.

Once a car salesman knows you don't need financing, they're more willing to be forward with you and knows they don't have to work on the payments with you, because it won't help. We'll still try to beat whatever APR you're getting at the bank and offer you payment deals, but forget them. You've got it worked out, and only need to know the price - bringing us to the next point.

2) DON'T HAGGLE OVER ANYTHING BUT THE PRICE.

This seems obvious to most of the readers of The Consumerist, but most people miss this - especially if they're getting dealer financing.


3) DO YOUR HOMEWORK.

Know what the MSRP of the car is, know what your trade is worth. (Here's a hint: take the NADA and subtract about $2K - used cars are appraised by books that aren't published to the public, so it's not blue book or NADA value. It's called "black book" value; "black books" are published weekly by companies such as Manhiem Auto Auctions (http://www.manheim.com/), and these show the going price at the auction, that week, for your car. Basically, wholesale cost.)

4) LET THEM KNOW THAT YOU KNOW WHAT THEY ARE DOING.

If you read this article, you are already ahead of 99.9% of the people walking in. They'll cut most of the bullshit with you if they know that you're not going to fall for it.

5) UNDERSTAND THAT YOU ARE NOT GOING TO PAY COST FOR THE CAR, AND THE AMOUNT YOU PAY OVER COST WILL BE MORE THAN YOU THINK.

6) HERE'S HOW THE FOUR-SQUARE WORKS:

The "worksheet" (or four-square, as it's called) is the first thing a person will see when they sit down to negotiate a car's price. This sheet is used both in used and new car sales. When the interested party sits down, they've already driven the car, and have talked to the salesman about what they're looking for. The salesman has had the trade evaluated, if there is one, and has gotten the customers something to drink to take the edge off.

After sitting everyone down, the salesperson starts filing out the four-square. A blank one looks something like this:

4square1.jpg

The salesman will only put down the make, model, VIN and customers information (not pictured). Then, the salesman will have the customer initial the part that says "I will buy today if numbers are agreeable to both parties." If there's any resistance (which normally there isn't), the salesman simply says that its to make sure that the customer really is ready to drive the car off the lot today - IF they can get the numbers right. I never had anyone not sign the form who was actually willing to buy the car today. By doing this, you have shown your commitment to the manager in the tower (tower: back room, usually behind glass, where the salesman goes to confer with his manager.)

(A note about the tower: This is where the deal actually takes place. The salesman you are dealing with is NOT who you are negotiating with - the sales manager, who sits behind a desk (and is usually one of the scummiest people you'll ever meet) is who's actually going to be haggling with you. This will not happen in front of you, nor will you see what is actually happening. It's a bit of theatre, this part.)

The salesman will then take the paper up to the tower, and when he returns, you'll see something like this:

4square2.jpg

The salesman will start, very matter-of-fact, going over the numbers with you. First, he'll start with the value of your trade.

The value of your trade, as listed, is $3000. You, expecting at least 5k for your beater, are unhappy with the number. That's fine, the salesman says. We'll get to that in a moment. He then goes on, very quickly, to just state the price of the car. Salespeople are instructed to move over these parts of the sheet VERY QUICKLY, as you'll see in a moment.

Next, he arrives at the down payment square, which is easily double what you'd hoped to put down today on the nice new Prius you now want very badly. Lastly, he arrives at the monthly payment. "That payment is outrageous! I can't afford that!" is what you're probably thinking. All in all, these are pretty crap numbers from what you see.

THESE NUMBERS ARE MEANT TO INSULT YOU AND PUT YOU ON THE DEFENSIVE, ESPECIALLY THE LAST TWO. The idea here is that, unless you're really observant, to get you less concerned about the overall price of the car and what your trade is worth (we'll go into trade manipulation in a moment), and get you to the payment plans offered at the bottom. The salesman, who knows you are steamed, will keep on acting like nothing is wrong, and hand you a pen to sign by the X. This is done for two reasons - 1)You might be the biggest, dumbest sucker we've had today and actually agree to these terms (happened twice the three months I did this), or 2) You look like the aggressor when you say you won't sign.

When you decide state that those numbers don't work for you, the salesman will ask which numbers you have a problem with. Most people will go straight to the down payment, as that's usually the part that most people gag on, followed closely by the trade in value. The salesman will then either talk about your trade (and proceed to downplay the car as much as they can - that's usually pretty easy), or will go directly to the down payment. Very discreetly, the salesman will fold the four square so that the only figures you see when you're talking are the down payment and monthly payment.

The salesman will then say "Well, what were you thinking about putting down today on the car?" You'll respond something like 1500, 1000 or even less if you're in a bind and NEED the car but are broke. The salesman will nod, and act as if he's empathetic with your plight - those bastards up in the tower *are* asking too much from you! He'll then cross out the down payment number and write in the number you're looking for.

At this point, the salesman will say something to the effect of, "Well, we may be able to get that down payment done for you. But, as I'm sure you know, the less you put down today, the more you'll have to pay off on the car - so this payment is likely to go up. What were you looking to pay on the car for payments?" You respond, "I didn't plan on paying that much, must less more!" The salesman will pause, hoping that his last line will sink in a bit and you'll either acquiesce to the current number or offer something higher.

If you don't, and insist that you were only planning on paying $300 a month for the car, the salesman will say, "I don't think I can do this, I really don't. But, I tell you what; my manager is crazy today and hasn't sold that many cars - he's really under the gun from upper management to get some cars out today, and he might just do this. Tell you what - if I can get these numbers, would you buy the car right now?" You say, "Well, sure, I guess." The salesman will say, "Okay, can you write me a check for the down payment so I can take it up there? They're not usually willing to turn down someone if I show up with cash in hand!" (Real reason? People are really unwilling, for some reason, to ask for a check back later if negotiations start to break down.)

Most people, at this point, will write the check - if the salesman is good enough with the snow job, people will honestly think that they're getting a good deal and that they need to do everything they can to get the manager to cave and sell them the car for next to nothing. The salesman will also get you to sign the form, by the X, saying that you're agreeing to the new numbers, not the old. He'll then put on his "wish me luck" face, and trudge up to the tower to haggle with his boss, the mean ol' manager.

(A note about the X: There's nothing legally binding here, BTW. You could sign your SSN, your blood type, and your name all on that line - but there's nothing binding on either party to make that happen. It's a precursor to the real deal with all the lovely paperwork in finance...but not the actual deal. However, the dealerships make you do this so you'll think its official and leverage yourself into thinking you may have just bought a car.)

The salesman will return, with a huge grin on his face, and something like this:



4square3.jpg
He'll say, "Wow! He really is in a tough spot! He was willing to let this go for the down payment you wanted! But, like I was saying, he couldn't really hit the payment you were looking for because he went down so far on the down payment, and he can let it go for this. (Motions towards new payment offer.) Would this work for you?" You will sit and look at the number, and wish you weren't buying a car today but instead on vacation. You will either agree, and we'll enter the final turn, or you'll go another couple of rounds with them until they either meet you somewhere in the middle, or you start to walk out.

(Note about "walking out." This doesn't work if your offer is, truly, unrealistic. You need to do your homework before going in - this includes finding out how long the car has been on the lot [just driving by and seeing it for a couple of weeks is good ammo], what the going rate is for those cars, and above all else, securing your financing before you get there, so you're more worried about the ACTUAL PRICE OF THE CAR instead of these bullshit terms.)

Now, lets say you've got a problem with the trade price, as well as the other figures (other than price.) The salesman (and manager) will probably agree to whatever price you want for your trade, within reason. So, assume the sticking point is that you want $5,000 for your trade - that's fine, we'll just say it's going to be bought for $5000. We simply move around the price of the car to $2,000 more, and you're in the clear. You don't notice, we don't say anything, and you feel happy. This is the way that dealerships do the whole "push pull or drag" sales where they'll give you $5,000 for an engine block.

So, at this point, we'll assume that you've gotten everything square and you're ready to close the deal. Sometimes, if the manager feels especially nasty (or has gone a few rounds with you via the worksheet), they'll come out of the tower and say "Folks, I'm (Douchey McDouchebag), the sales manager here. Congratulations! You've just bought a car! We were able to get the payments to $310 - I know you wanted $300, but that was the best we could do. That's close enough, right?" They'll nod their head (another psychological trick to get you to agree), and almost every time the person says "Yea, that's fine!" The problem is, they didn't realize that a $10 payment bump over a 5-year loan nets an extra $1k in profit for the dealership. It's called "the $10 (or $15, or $20) close", and I only saw it fail when a person was really, really exasperated with us. The deal ends, and you wake up in a year realizing that, somehow, you're $6,000 upside down on your car, while the dealership is laughing all the way to the bank.

So, those are the major pitfalls associated with the four-square; it looks really unassuming on its face, but its designed to make you pay more, and not realize what's going on. The manager, during negotiations, will write in BIG BIG letters, will turn over the sheet if he needs room, and will write over other things in order to make it as confusing and hard to deal with as possible in attempts to wear you down and make you sign.

The saying we used to have around the lot was "It's like the Dallas Cowboys playing a Pee-wee Football team." The average car salesman does this dance 4 times a day - you do it once every 3-5 years. They are better, and they will get you on some level. However, by doing stuff like this, you can control how much it happens.

Here's what a finished four-square might look like:

4squarefilled.jpg

(Photo by Scott Jacobs, courtesy Edmunds)

What are your four-square horror stories? How did you "beat the box?" — BEN POPKEN

]]>
Fri, 30 Mar 2007 13:21:24 EDT Ben Popken http://consumerist.com/index.php?op=postcommentfeed&postId=248445&view=rss&microfeed=true
<![CDATA[ UPDATE: Drove My Chevy to the Levy But The Dealer Left Me Dry ]]> mapofheard.jpgAn investigation into the Bill Heard used car dealership reveals a history of complaints over customer intimidation and harassment.

One woman went back to get a typo fixed up on her title, the salesman demanded she return the car because its former owner's financing had fallen through. She laughed. Several of the salesmen then surrounded her car and another used a truck to prevent her from leaving.

"There was no way to get out. They surrounded my car with seven people and stood in my doorframe. Couldn't start the car. Couldn't shut the door in 97-degree weather," Elizabeth Wilson told NewsChannel5.

She finally resorted to calling the police to help her and her car leave.

Many lawsuits have been filed against the dealership, but not as many as there could be. Bill Heard has all its customers sign an arbitration agreement upon car purchase. These are not necessary to buy a car.

Previously: Drove My Chevy to the Levy But The Dealer Left Me Dry

(Thanks to Lesley!)

]]>
Wed, 26 Jul 2006 17:03:39 EDT Ben Popken http://consumerist.com/index.php?op=postcommentfeed&postId=190064&view=rss&microfeed=true
<![CDATA[ Confessions of a Car Salesman ]]> swoodson.jpgOur cyberoptic umbilical to our Internet mother may be on the fritz, so we can't exactly tell you if Edmunds.com's Confessions of a Car Salesman is an Internet classic. But it should be and it's a must read for anyone looking to purchase a car, whether new or old. Know thy enemy.

Chandler Phillips was a Los Angeles journalist hired by Edmunds to work in two new car dealerships and one used car dealership for three months. His expose is shocking, hilarious and well indicative of a completely corrupt industry thriving by the tacky manipulations of cheaters, swindlers, wanna-be pimps and ex-cons.

There's too much here to quote. From the inside, car salesman are exactly what they appear to be from the outside: dishonest career liars with penchants for tacky clothes and bullying. Oh, and they're racists to boot. Spend the morning reading this one... it's an invaluable resource to anyone who wants to know how to get through buying a car without getting flayed.

Confessions of a Car Salesman [Edmunds]

]]>
Wed, 19 Jul 2006 06:32:05 EDT consumerist.com http://consumerist.com/index.php?op=postcommentfeed&postId=188288&view=rss&microfeed=true
<![CDATA[ Truth in Used Car Advertising ]]> Well, at least they tell it like it is. [NSFW]

Whether you're buying, however, depends entirely on your disposition.

Previously: The Greatest Car Salesman You've Never Heard Of

]]>
Tue, 27 Jun 2006 00:44:33 EDT Ben Popken http://consumerist.com/index.php?op=postcommentfeed&postId=183560&view=rss&microfeed=true
<![CDATA[ HOW TO: Buy A Car Without Putting A Shotgun In Your Mouth ]]> usedcarsalesman.jpgBrowsing Metafilter, we found this excellent post detailing the smart way to make a purchase from those plaid-skinned abominations who lurk in the primal shadows of every consumerist's nightmares, grinning their straight razor smiles and beckoning us to sign contracts in bilesome blood: the car salesman.

It's long and there's too much good stuff to quote, but here's the bottom line: When you walk into a dealership, just remember that every single person you talk to is going to do everything they can to take every last penny they can get out of you. They might pay lip service to 'customer loyalty,' but EVERYTHING is motivated by profit.

Here's another great bit:

After you've set a target price and written your message, find the "quick quote" tab on the edmunds site. Send out a request for info to any dealership within about an hour or so from where you live. When I did it, I provided them with a temporary e-mail address and a fake phone number.

Boy, am I glad I did.

What occurred next was nothing short of an communications onslaught. Every dealer (I sent messages to 11) sent me at least 1 email, and the average was two or three. In one round of messages, I accidentally used my real phone number; every single one called me. Be prepared... when these sharks smell the blood of a car buyer (especially one in a hurry), they get scary.

If you're looking to throw your flesh amongst the hucksters, you might make this your Bible.

How To Buy A Used Car [Metafilter]

]]>
Wed, 03 May 2006 08:14:35 EDT consumerist.com http://consumerist.com/index.php?op=postcommentfeed&postId=171200&view=rss&microfeed=true
<![CDATA[ Don't Buy a Lemon from Chicago ]]> carcar.jpgDid you know that Illinois doesn't make car accident reports public? So if you Carfax a used car from there, you won't know it's already been around the block. Efforts to introduce legislation to change this have failed.

Apparently, the rationale for defeating the measure was that some of the reports might possibly contain errors. Therefore, no reports should be released.

Car dealerships are said to have lobbied against the bill.

Bill Rejected to Open Vehicle Accident Records [Chicago Tribune] (Thanks to Jim!)

]]>
Thu, 09 Mar 2006 09:15:02 EST popkin http://consumerist.com/index.php?op=postcommentfeed&postId=159372&view=rss&microfeed=true