Whats perplexing is the lack of explanation behind the change — the original email cited it simply as 'the cost of doing business in New York'. Jessica attempted to find more out herself, with no luck.

I called to ask if there was a mistake and was told that it was not a mistake, and that everyone in the state will be paying extra. I've never received so much as a parking ticket in my life — there is NO explanation in the e-mail for the increase, either. They just tell you nonchalantly that it's time to renew in x months and your premium is X — so Merry Christmas, NY Progressive customers!

Any ideas on why this could be?

Pic: [The Master Shake Signal]

Cristy writes:

I am from Progressive and would like to respond to your posting titled "Why is Progressive Using 'Recent Military Service' to Determine Rates and Eligibility?"

First, I would like to apologize to Ceaser and anyone else who got the impression that Progressive uses military service to determine rates and eligibility. This is not true, but it's easy to see how Ceaser and others could have gotten that impression based on the language on our Web site.

The reason we would ask about military service is to make sure we are not unfairly charging a higher rate to service men and women who have had a lapse in insurance coverage.

If you've bought car insurance before, you know that most companies offer you a better rate if you have continuous insurance coverage, and it's the same with Progressive. But, someone who is deployed overseas without access to a car does not need insurance, so they may not have it. But we certainly don't want that to hurt them in terms of their rate. So, if a person had a lapse in coverage because they were in the military, we would offer them the same (better) rate they would have gotten if they had had no lapse in coverage. The majority of states require insurers to do this, but we do it voluntarily in all states regardless of whether it's required because it's the right thing to do. Please let me know if this makes sense; if not, I will try to explain it better!

As for the confusing language on our Web site, I'm very sorry about that and we are now in the process of getting it changed. That language is a disclosure about our comparison rating service, where we give you our rates and the rates of some of our competitors. The language is meant to convey that some companies may consider military service in rating, and if they do, it might make the rate we gave you for the other company inaccurate. But unfortunately, the way it's worded, it sounds like we may use recent military service as a reason not to offer insurance, which is not the case.

The last thing we want to do is make anyone in the military feel that we're treating them with anything less than the respect they deserve. We want to make sure we don't charge higher rates to people who don't have continuous car insurance coverage because they were deployed overseas. If you are in the military and have been deployed overseas, please make sure your insurance company or your agent knows this so that you are not penalized for not having continuous car insurance. Thank you for hearing me out, and again, I am sorry for the confusing language that led to this misunderstanding.

Cristy Cote
Progressive Public Relations

While searching for new car insurance on progressive and sadly other insurance carriers, figuring what the rate check would be I answered a few questions. Some questions asked were if I was currently in the military and in college, I am both. As an Iraq war Army vet I am currently going to school with the GI bill, and tuition assistance from the Air national guard, so I put that I am both a student and national guard.

Well before I used to call and verify information and just to see if anything was available if there was any sort of military discount available. As always I get told that the prices were low enough that not to require a discount, or that military discounts weren't available from the company, as in Progressive. Geico does give a military discount but their rates are so jacked up that there really isn't a discount, actually $300+ w/ military discount over my progressive, state farm, and sad to say allstate. Anyhow I come to the final page and in the fine print I see this:
 

Your rate may vary, or you may not be offered a quote, due to eligibility requirements (you may not qualify for that program), credit history, recent military service, or driving record (if your actual record is different than what you told us). If you have been assigned to your recent automobile insurance policy by the state, or if any of the drivers you listed requires proof of financial responsibility, your rate may be higher than those provided by this comparison service. [emphasis ours -Editor]

Now my question is this. With news that 1 in 5 soldiers coming back from Iraq have mental, health, PTSD issues, not to mention the suicide rate climbing among periods of deployments. Long term deployments having stress issues and coping when coming back. Could these news be used to proclaim that Military might be a higher risk therefore lets bend you over and take your money? I hope not but then again most of these companies don't care other than the bottom line. Any insight or help would greatly be appreciated.

Progressive now says its spying was 'reasonable' [Atlanta-Journal Constitution] (Thanks to Christopher!)
(Photo: The Master Shake Signal)

Here's part of Chuck's email:

After dealing with Progressive executive customer service for most of this week I have finally gotten a resolution. Rachel at Progressive is issuing a formal apology from Cross Country (the outsourced roadside assistance people) and an AMEX gift card.

They of course say that this is an unusual circumstance and call volumes were extremely high at 11:30am on a Sunday...

...I asked for a credit in the amount of my October premium and was turned down by Brian Passell, Divisional President.

But the issue has been resolved to Chuck's satisfaction, so we're happy for him and hope his step-daughter has a better weekend coming up.

(Photo: Getty)

The woman's stepfather, who pays for the insurance, called Progressive Monday morning to find out which part of "roadside assistance" Progressive doesn't understand:

I told my story to a customer service representative who then without me asking transferred me to a manager, Brandy. Brandy was helpful to the extent that she tried to diagnose the problem with the outsourced call center to verify my story. She pulled wait times and various other reports none of which seemed very helpful to either of us. At around 12:45 she said that she had to pull a report and would call me back in 30 to 60 minutes. I am now about to leave the office at 5:30 with no call and no way to reach her.

(Thanks to Chuck!)

RELATED
Progressive's Roadside Assistance page
(Photo: Getty)

After headquarters found out, a letter signed by the President of Progressive apologized for the actions and took full responsibility for them. They also pledged to enact new rules and procedures to prevent future occurrences. That may not be enough for the Insurance Commission and authorities, who say they are investigating the matter.

Members of the sessions, each which began with group pledges to keep the discussion private, disclosed abortions, sexual orientation issues, and drug abuse, all of which were tape-recorded by the Progressive gumshoes. After an emergency convening, and learning their trust and privacy was breached and violated, the group broke down and cried and several members left.

There's no mention of how the private investigators' identity was discovered. Maybe the group got suspicious after the couple would say, "pass" whenever it came their time to confess. Also gotta wonder how "isolated" this incident was. Maybe Progressive was just unlucky enough to get caught in something that goes on all the time. Guess if you're involved in a lawsuit with a company you need to watch out for any "new friends" you suddenly find yourself having.

Private eyes sneak into church group [Atlanta Journal-Constitution]
Company says it's sorry for spying [Atlanta Journal-Constitution] (Thanks to ptkdude!)
(Photo: The Master Shake Signal)

Rather than putting the onus on customers to find a body shop, get an estimate and arrange a rental car, Progressive, Geico and others are setting up one-stop service centers to handle every aspect of the claim.

One-Stop Car Insurance Service, Body Work Included [NYT]
(Photo: Michael (mx5tx))

I worked at a call center for Progressive Insurance up until about a month ago. I hated my job so much, but I really can't gripe about the company. It is a great company to work for and they are very good to their customers. So I'd like to share with you some inside knowledge about the company; like how to grossly extend your payment, get fees waived, and the logical behind rating factors.

1. Progressive uses a point system to determine your rate...

Comprehensive Claims (0 points)...usually don't effect the rate. In fact, I've never seen one effect someone's rate. Comprehensive claims is fancy insurance talk for claims that are not accidents; like fires, thefts, vandalisms. Don't be afraid to report these kinds of claims. I can virtually guarantee they have no effect on your rate at Progressive.

Not at Fault Accidents...(0 - 1 points)it is rare for a NAF to effect your rate, but it can. They may have a slight effect on your rate, depending on the state. I think this is unfair to hold against someone, but many companies are starting to do this.

DUI, DWI (0 to 2 points). Huh? Most companies won't even insure a DUI. But they are barely a rating factor at Progressive. The logic is that most DUIs don't result in terrible crashes, and most individuals are non-repeat offenders. And typically, repeat and malicious offenders don't have respect for the law, including the law that you are required to carry insurance. If you have a DUI on your record, I can pretty much say you will never find a lower rate than Progressive.

Tickets (1 to 2 points). Usually all speeding, stop sign, defective equipment, traffic light, yield tickets go here. Usually 2 points a piece.

Worse Offenses, At Fault Accidents (3 to 4 points).

Jailable driving offenses (8 points). Drag racing, vehicular homicide, etc.

2. The biggest factors affecting your rate

AGE: Young drivers are much, much more expensive due to their inexperience and sometimes immaturity. As you get older, each year, this factor will help bring your 'risk' down.

GENDER: According to studies, males are higher 'risk' than females. However, new research indicates that females are catching up, so this isn't as huge of a factor anymore.

LOCATION:
Urban areas pay more; with dense traffic, you are much more likely to get in an accident. Poor neighborhoods pay more due to the risk of crime; vandalism, break-ins, and thefts. Even very nice neighborhoods pay slightly more, since if you do get into an accident, you have much better odds of hitting an expensive E-class than an economic Escort. The best areas are middle to lower-middle class suburbs and rural areas.

CREDIT:
Unfortunately for some, this plays a very big role in your rate. The only state exempt from credit checks is California. I had to explain to some customers that their new rates went up because of their credit score. Not fun.

YOUR VEHICLE:
There's a ton of factors that go into this; typically, the lowest risk is 4-door sedans, 2-door coupes, convertibles, minivans, trucks, SUVs. The bigger your vehicle, the more damage it has the potential to cause, which makes it a higher risk. If you hit a car in an intersection with an Cavalier at 25mph, it isn't going to cause nearly same kind of damage as a diesel F-350. Foreign cars are slightly more to insure since replacement parts cost slightly more.

COLOR of your car does NOT effect your rate. This myth was created after a study you've probably read, that red cars are the 'riskiest'. The logic from the study was bright colors, like red, make cars appear that they are going faster than dull or dark colors. As a result, an officer in a speed trap is more likely going to pull over a red car since it looks like it is going faster. And speeding tickets ARE an insurance factor.

YOUR DRIVING HISTORY:
Driving histories go back 36 months, except in New York (which is 40 months). Your history is composed from three reports; your MVR or Motor Vehicle Report, the state database of your ticketed driving history; your CLUE report, a collection of previous insurance companies reports stating the numbers of claims you've had, and YOU. If you say you got in an accident, were never sited for it and never claimed it on your insurance, but you still tell us, it'll be put on your record with an approximate date.

There is no way to get something off of your insurance driving history, other than time. Let's say you had a speeding ticket on 04/23/04. And let's say your renewal date for the next term is on 5/1/07. This speeding ticket will fall off the account and help lower your rate.

However, let's say the speeding ticket was on 5/15/07 when you renew on 5/1/07. That means, for the next six months, this ticket will effect your rate! So if you notice a violation that is a month or closer past the renewal date, tell them you are thinking about leaving because the rate is too high and ask to see if you can get the violation off the account a little early. As long as it's close, they'll try.

3. If you are 21 to 30 years old, unless you are on a parent's plan, Progressive is one of the best rates around.
They provide very good 24/7 customer service and, in my opinion, one of the best claims services ever. Progressive reps do NOT make any sort of commission, so if they try to upsell you, it's for your own protection. One bad crash with only state minimums can ruin you financially for the rest of your life. It happens. No one gets into accidents on purpose, that's why they're called accidents. :)

4. How to pay late without penalty
Extend your due date. Progressive will allow customers to extend their due date up to 10 days later. The only time this doesn't apply is on the first payment of a renewal term. So if your bill is due on April 1, you can extend it until April 11 without a late fee. Just call and ask.

5. How to get a late fee waived
Late Fees are only $5 and you won't be penalized more than once per bill. As long as you are not consistently late with payments, you can usually get this waived if you call with some excuse. Just pretend to be concerned about the late fee on your account ruining your credit or good standing with the company (even though it won't). Technically, Progressive reps aren't allowed to waive any fees without talking to their supervisor first. And if for strange some reason the rep says no, ask for a manager.

6. If you can't pay on time, we're not going to cut you off immediately
Let's assume you have a good payment history. The bill is due April 1. On April 2, you'll get a second notice, giving you about another 7 days. After that, you'll get a Final notice, which can be anywhere from 7 to 23 days. Since all insurance companies must be compliant with each state's department of insurance, each state makes up their own "legal notice", or the amount of a grace period you can pay your bill late.

7. Progressive honors the postmark date of a mailed payment
If you payment is due on April 1 and the envelope is postmarked on that day...even though by the time Progressive receives and processes it on April 7, it is still considered on time without a penalty. And there is no charge to pay over the phone with check or credit.

8. Mail your renewal payment on time
When you sign up, you essentially agree to six month terms, let's say from Jan 1 to Jul 1. You can be late every month; Feb, Mar, Apr, May, Jun...but if you are late in July, which would be the start of your new term, your first payment is the one that binds coverage. It's the only way to legally show that you agree to the terms of your new insurance contract. Without money, Progressive has no way of knowing you're intentions to renew.

9. How to get a non-sufficient fund fee waived
Aka returned payment, usually $15 to $20. As long as you have a good payment history, just call and say your checkbook was stolen. Every once in a while, a supervisor will ask for proof from the bank. Although it probably won't happen, just call after normal business hours when banks are closed, or anytime Sunday. Call centers are open 24/7. If they still press for proof (again, which they probably won't), just keep pressing the fact that you shouldn't have to wait until tomorrow to prove it and want to get this bill taken care of.

10. How to get an early cancellation fee waived
If you ever want to cancel midterm, you can. Many states have done away with cancel fees, typically about $50. However, if yours still does, when they ask you the reason for canceling, just say you moved out of the state or the country. They may ask you if you tried a rate in your new state, say you did but you found a much better one. No cancel fee will be assessed.

Sincerely,

Former Progressive Licensed CSR,
Dave

— BEN POPKEN

(Photo: simondhweller)

I emailed you about 2 weeks ago complaining that Progressive Insurance only runs it's credit check every 3 years. Knowing my credit history improved, I thought this unfair and called them.

Since them I received an updated bill and it was $67.50 cheaper (for 6 months)—just based on a new credit check! Obviously if readers credit history worsens, wouldn't recommend an updated credit check, but for most people, if you don't ask for the current credit check, you could be losing dollars.

(Photo:foundphotoslj)

Patty's tale, inside, navigates the tortuous twists as Progressive tries to avoid paying her any more then the barest minimum after one of their clients hit her car.

Patty isn't taking it lying down, though. She's fought the Progressive agent at every turn, and now she's taking her case to a lawyer.

But the process hasn't been fun.

After the last go around with the Progressive agent, she says, "I felt like I drank a gallon of gas and ate 7 lit matches!"

Today they've got a face-palm easy post on saving money on insurance rates. The secret insider tip... is to call all the providers and find the best quote.

Geico: 1-800-861-8380
State Farm: 1-877-734-2265
Allstate: 1-877-572-5268
Progressive: 1-800-776-4737
AAA: 1-877-323-4222

The blog says the best way to get a good price is not to ask, "Is that a good price?" but, "What other discounts do you have?"

Guess this is why they call 'em lawyers. We'll need to get a judge to sort this one out for certain.

Previously:
• Why The Car Accident Was God's Fault
• God Works In Mysterious Car Accidents

Bluegus32 tells us that insurance is all about negligence. Since nobody knew about the driver's stroke condition, "from a strictly legal perspective, the insurance company has no liability."

"He didn't know that he had a medical condition. He did not do anything illegal or improper. He was driving his car when seized by a previously-unknown condition. This easily qualifies as a "freak accident."

There is no negligence. Since the insurer's liability is based upon the negligence of its insured, then there is no coverage here. The insured was not negligent. Therefore, his insurance company is not liable.

I know this sounds like it's a horrific result but this is textbook tort law.

This, my friends, is a wonderful example of why you must always carry full insurance coverage so that YOUR OWN insurance company can cover your damages in such an event."

Previously: God Works In Mysterious Car Accidents

And therefore Progressive insurance won't pay for the other car's damage?

We didn't either, until we read ACurmudgeon's letter, inside.

Good thing the guy's health insurance has a different definition for holy works.

"I was involved in an auto accident recently

Another driver coming in the opposite direction had a stroke while driving.

Instead of turning, he ran full speed into the other lanes of traffic. Thankfully, nobody was hurt and the driver with the stroke seemed like he will live.

The stroke victim plowed into a big work van that was pushed back into our car. The damage is major, the entire back passenger door is crushed.

The problem starts when, after a week of waiting, the police report is ready. Seem like a no-brainer to me, guy has stroke, hits cars and has insurance...

Apparently since the driver did not have a pre-existing condition and did not know he had a tumor, Progressive does not have to pay for any of the 4 other cars involved in an accident. This apparently called an "Act of God". They don't pay for those.

What can the insurance companies use [Act of God] for? What qualifies?"