Consumerist
UPDATE: Dell Admits Error In Asking Consumerist To Remove Post
UPDATE: Dell Demands Takedown Of Our "22 Confessions Of A Former Dell Sales Manager"
A former Dell kiosk manager writes us to share helpful tips about doing business with Dell. He has no particular problems with Dell, he just wanted to share some helpful tips for consumers looking to get the best deal. He includes info on getting the best deal from the website, different kinds of promotions the Dell offers, insider details on how the kiosk sales reps are compensated, what coupons and deals they have to offer you to close the deal, the email format for Dell in case you're thinking of launching an EECB, where to take your Dell credit card complaints, which extended warranties to avoid, how to get a domestic tech support rep... and more. It's very comprehensive. Enjoy!
I am a former Spherion rep that later became a Dell Branded Rep (manager) of a Dell kiosk in the Philadelphia, PA region. To work at one is to work at all, and I worked at four different kiosks in the region. I worked from July 2005 until October 2006, but keep regular contact with some of the guys I trained and brought up. Other than the usual complaints, I have no problem with the company.
Things most people know already:
1. Small business is better than home and home office - Small business typically runs a few dollars more than the home office, but you stand a better chance of getting domestic tech support rather than non-native English speakers. As an added perk, small business promotions are occasionally better than home.
2. Play with the web site - There are many different pricing packages for the same product throughout the various sections, typically three or more per segment. If you're buying a Dell soon, configure a unit from a link off the main page, from the product listing on the drop down and from the "As Advertised-Newspaper" drop down. Configure the same system each way at the home, small business and the Direct (kiosk) site (http://www.dell.com/directstore). It is very likely you will end up with nine different prices.
3. Extended warranty for laptops - Do it for as long as you feasibly see using your laptop, and include accidental. Two years is typically the lifecycle from "new product" to "no longer produced/no more refurbs" though YMMV. Once your model is off the refurb site, drop it. Voila! New laptop. The standard warranty will not cover any screen defects.
UPDATE: Current Dell rep says: If a system is no longer shipping a used/refurbished is always sent, though the refurb should be equal or better as far as hardware is concerned. As of this writing if a system is exchanged, via either Complete Care warranty or concession, and the system is still a currently shipping model a new system is to be sent.
4. Extended warranty for desktops - There is nothing in a low end desktop (non XPS) that is worth the price of the warranty should you have to replace it. Only pick it up if you have absolutely no clue what you're doing once the case is open.
5. Tech support phone - If you do go with the home/home office/direct route, tech support is outsourced (duh!). The tech support instant messenger typically provides a calmer, more understandable conversation due to the fact that accents are taken out of the equation. Think back to high school Spanish. It was always easier to translate the foreign language you were reading than if you heard it. Same concept applies here.
6. Tech support web site - If you're having a common problem, hit the product forums (however crippled they may be now). It is very likely your question/problem has been resolved before, and usually a domestic tech rep posted a solution there.
7. Warranty Repairs - On all but the two lowest warranties (90 day and 1 year limited), warranty repairs will be done in the home. The repair techs are only required to replace the broken part. They are not required to do anything else. If they replace your hard drive, they are not required to reinstall your OS or drivers. Most will do it if you're nice, but don't expect it. If you're clueless, there are tutorials all over http://support.dell.com that tell you how to do it yourself.
UPDATE: Current Dell rep says: Also with desktop machines at home service is the only option. Notebooks on the other hand may have a return to depot or an at home service contract.
8. OS Backup Disk - For over a year now, Dell has required you to purchase your Backup/Reinstall Disk. Order this with your machine. Once your Dell is delivered, it is a pain to get the disk at all, much less at a sensible price. If you do not have this disk and your hard drive dies, at home warranty repair will not be able to get your PC running once the drive is swapped without selling you a new copy of your OS.
UPDATE: Current Dell rep says: Dell no longer requires the purchase of the backup disk. They are included with every computer that ships with a Windows OS. On the subject of hard drives, if your drive fails within the first year of purchase you should be sent an imaged drive that will contain everything except for your royalty applications (Office etc). If for some reason you lose the media, you can request the OS, Resource/Drivers disk, and the applications disk at no cost to you. (Even if you are no longer under warranty Dell will send you an OS disk) Note that the Resource/Drivers and Applications disk is only available for currently shipping systems. Should you need to reinstall you'll need to download the drivers from support.dell.com from another computer and copy them over. Last, within the first year of purchase, if you need to reinstall the OS and you can't access the recovery image, or if it was deleted for some reason, you can request an System Recovery CD that does pretty much the same thing. (Not available on notebooks due to the Media Direct partition.)
9. DPA/Dell Preferred - This is the Dell credit card, like a Sears, Macy's or Radio Shack credit card. Typically a high rate, low limit card. The lowest APR is still around 18-20%, and that comes with a $5,000 limit. The $4,000, $3,000 and $2,000 limits have rates in the mid to high 20s. The lowest limt, $1,500, has an APR of 29.99%. NEVER USE THIS UNLESS THERE IS A KILLER NO INTEREST PROMOTION.
Stuff you may not know:
1. Promotion cycle dates - Thursday is the first day of new promotions. If you go to the web site at 11:45 p.m. on Wednesday night and again on 1 a.m. on Thursday morning, the promotions are different. The catalog promotions run from the start of the month to the end. Additionally, on holiday weekends (Memorial Day, 4th of July, etc.) there may be special sales/coupons for the three-day weekend.
2. Promotion styles - Typically, one week will be cash off while the next will be percentage off. If you liked cash off but the current promotion is percentage off, check the "As Advertised-Newspaper" section. These typically have a remnant of the prior week's promotion as well as better versions of the current week's promotions. Cash off helps for cheap systems, percentage off helps with high-end.
3. Dell Customer Care can price match within 24 hours from the time of order. Combining #1 and #2 from this section, if you are unsure of the value of the week's promotion but need to order something, order it Wednesday night. Check the promotions for the new week on Thursday. If its better, call and price match. If its not, sit back and feel smug for no reason
4. Dell corporate email - As of December 2006, everybody (save Michael Dell) working for Dell U.S. has the same form of email address: firstname_lastname@dell.com. Michael Dell's does not follow this pattern and is changed immediately whenever the current one is discovered by lower-level employees or the public.
5. Dell's internal fiscal calendar is different from other corporations. As their fiscal year ends in January or February (I honestly don't remember), the best deals will typically be found in late January and all of February. Also, buying during the last week of any quarter typically means free or deeply-discounted 2nd day or overnight shipping, and the quickest order turnaround. There are no steep discounts for the holidays, though they will run a few weeks of consecutive percentage off promotions during the back to school season in August.
6. The DFS servers are notoriously flimsy. If you apply for DPA (why would you?) and it is unable to complete, it means the server is overloaded but your credit rating has already been pinged. Reapplying will not fix the issue but it will repeatedly ping your credit. The system is unable to verify cell phone numbers and will automatically reject based on the use of one.
Fun facts about the Kiosks:
1. Why should I shop at a kiosk? I can order from home. - A very valid point, but the majority of kiosk customers are morons who think computers are magic boxes that let you see pictures of cats in funny poses while someone steals your AOL password. There's a few reasons why an educated person aka Consumerist reader should hit the kiosk up:
ii. Refuse to Lose - 10% coupons meant to allow a sales rep to seal a large deal. These can only be used when the computer price alone is $1,600 or more. It can not be used on accessories, TVs or multiple computers whose aggregate value is above $1,600. This must be requested from the Manager on Duty (MOD) through an email request, and will generally be credited before the computer is shipped.
iii. DPA coupon - Dell will already give you 2% off your order if, at the payment screen you click the link that offers 2% off when you pay with DPA. The kiosks have a 3% DPA closing tool that can be used also, giving a discount of slightly over 5%. This works for all DPA purchases including TV's, monitors and cameras.
iv. The closing tools are nothing but individual-use coupons entered at the shopping cart. They are invalid on the home and small business site. Reps are supposed to use them as a last-ditch effort, but as long as you're not buying a sub-$600 system, they should offer them without your having to ask.
b. Printer cartridges - No you can't buy them there...officially. They are non-inventoried items that many kiosks have a heady supply of due to inexplicably random deliveries from corporate. If you're in a pinch and need one that day, go (don't call), get a feel for the employees, and if you think they're cool with it, offer cash.
2. There are two levels of kiosk employees. There are those hired by Spherion, creatively known as "Spherion reps," and then there are Dell Branded Reps, or DBRs. DBRs are effectively the management of the individual kiosk, and are the only ones able to work uncompensated overtime. Deal with them if possible, because they are very likely to be there the next time if you have a question. They've also been there much longer than any other kiosk staff, so they likely have a much better skill set for finding bargains.
3. If you have a problem with DPA, the kiosk has a specific email contact for Dell Financial. Problems can be resolved much much faster.
4. The Dell Direct kiosk website is configured differently than the others. There are "bundles" (linked from the main page under the "start shopping" graphics) and there are "non-bundles". Bundles, so called because...you guessed it...accessories and service are already bundled in, have a higher profit margin. They are also the most customizable system on the website. Non-bundles carry lower profit margins but may be limited. The salesman will always start from a bundle. Let them finish, then make them search the non-bundles for an equal system with a better price.
5. Kiosk reps are judged on the following:
b. Bundle percentage: Dell varies on what percentage of all sales it wants to be from the "bundle" page depending on the month and who you're talking to. It is typically between 40% and 60%.
c. Service: Each PC/Notebook sale is expected to have a 3 year warranty attached. Typically, the number is between $160 and $200.
d. E&A: This is the percentage of the sale that was spent on accessories. Each transaction should have between 5% and 10%, or one printer and cable per PC or one bag, lock and travel mouse per Notebook.
e. DPA: Dell Preferred Account purchases. The expected percentage of DPA sales has climbed in the past years. It currently hovers between 40% and 60%, and they want a 1 to 1 customer to submitted application ratio.
6. Secret shoppers - The kiosks are secret shopped constantly, and they're playing of a 20-question scorecard. Don't be surprised if the salesman asks really base/borderline-insulting questions if you act interested. They think you're a secret shopper.
7. Communication - Complaints made about Dell to the kiosk reps go unheard. There is no place for the rep to turn around and report the complaint to. Communication between reps and even district management is limited, and reps are discouraged from calling the regional management. Store, district and regional management are all run from email and cell phones. It is not uncommon for the kiosks to receive three answers from three departments, with the end result being all three statements retracted without a solution in place.
(Photo: Josh Swannack)
Comments
I used to work sales for Dell at a call center near here... All of this is very good and valid information. Definitely reference this before buying a Dell. They use good components in their systems, but you can get ripped off without decent preparation.
Small business does usually have better deals than the home/home office unit. But, small business charges sales taxes in all locales regardless of a Dell presence or not, whereas the home/home office unit may not. Check first.
Dell Home/Home Office will charge sales tax in any state it can. Delaware is about the only state where sales tax isn't charged. Again, check first, but you're pretty much going to have to pay sales tax on the stuff now.
So if he's not disgruntled, that would leave him relatively gruntled?
I live with a Dell Tech...I've seen the parts they use for computers...many are refurbs...but most issues are their motherboards (apparently crap). I wouldn't mind buying a Dell system (which I plan to do soon) but I would be afraid of buying the service plans...
Plus, to know my roomate...this is not the type of guy you would willing let into your house. He's a great guy when you know him...but he is beyond strange...excentric I believe is the word.
Beware of Dell...as any company...do your homework and you will prevail
Interesting information, but correct me if I'm wrong, the only useful bit was to buy a computer on Wednesday night so that you have the option of price matching it with tomorrow's inevtible deal. Was there anything else I missed which was more than interesting and actually useful?
I'm not trying to be obnoxious; I'm really asking.
Good information, nice to see insider info from someone that isn't bitter.
Just want to comment on the first No. 8 regarding the purchase of OS Backup Disks. No one should have to pay for OS backup disks.
There is no need to purchase the backup disks. The link I've provided below shows you exactly how to acquire the backup disks for free from Dell's Customer Service. Just follow the steps and you'll be on your way to getting your backup disks in the mail for FREE.
You may have to repeat the process as I did have to email them twice. The first time I emailed them, I got a reponse back saying that Dell does not ship the backup disks for free but be persistent and email them again.
I requested and received my backup discs last December but the process should still work.
Note though that the backup disks were for my Windows XP Professional laptop but the process should be the same if you have Vista on your PC or laptop.
I received all the OS backup disks including the dell installed software disks.
Here is the link: [forums.slickdeals.net]
C'mon everybody knows confessions come in 10's! WTF is this 22 crap?
This is very good information! Thank you for taking the time to compile this list for us. I've been considering the benefits of a dell system lately and thought about going by a kiosk to ask questions. Unfortunately the closest kiosk to me is half an hour away and not exactly on my way anywhere. Still, when I get ready to start asking questions, I'm going to study this list and maybe even take it with me. Forewarned is forarmed!
Darn.. I just bought a Dell online wenesday night.. wish I read this first~!
Yeah, my parents have had Dell's for their business, and they don't ahve tech support issues. But I hear horrible stories about Dell tech support if you don't have business Dell
"Once your model is off the refurb site, drop it. Voila! New laptop."
Gee. That seems unethical.
Ethics? To get the better of a company you must first THINK like a company. Throw your ethics out the window!
For tech support, I would skip calling AND instant messaging and go straight to e-mail. I skip the phone for the obvious reasons. I've tried instant messaging and always get disconnected from chat or receive scripted answers that don't answer my question for so long I get to the point of almost throwing my computer out the window.
Every time I've e-mailed Dell tech support, I've gotten answers that are actually useful. It may take longer but it cuts the frustration down by an amazing amount.
Very good article for the beginner computer buyer. I have personally bought Dell computers from their online store with no trouble ever. I like their product and it does fine what I need it for: games/porn.
But definitely keep an eye out for dell computer deals they always have some sort of deal going on.
@luckybob343:
Hahaha! :D
Sometimes, when you buy refurb Dell, you find little suprise CDs/DVDs in the CD tray! Very interesting stuff, sometimes.
@backspinner: Do you know where I could find that e-mail address? For the life of me, I cannot find it.
To my knowledge (Dell Warranty Parts Direct Certified in everything they make), Dell doesn't replace any computer systems under warranty. If a part fails, you get that part replaced with a working one. No new system.
If you drop it, you get nothing (unless you have plausible deniability- ie, there is no obvious physical damage).
Well, even though Dell does offer accidental damage coverage, this is not available for Floridians. Basically making Dell not a first choice for anyone who wants such coverage on a laptop or desktop.
Even though Dell does offer accidental damage converage, it is not available for Floridians. Basically, this makes them not a first choice for anyone who wants such coverage on a laptop or desktop.
As a former Dell Campus Representative (the guys who advertise at college events), I don't see anything that screams inaccurate to me here. However, the man completely fails to mention the number of secret promos available. Costco members can get a discount by getting linked to Dell from the Costco site, university students at certain schools get anywhere from 2 to 12% off... It doesn't take too much looking to find them, typically.
... Actually, a little secret of Dell's. They're one of those companies who practices "internal competition". i.e. the Kiosk guys are in competition with the Dell Home site is in competition with the Dell University program. This is why there's three different prices if you visit three different Dell sites. In other words: Double emphasis on what he said about each group offering different deals.
I just recieved the best customer service of my life! I followed the tip about Technical Support Chat to solve my problem and I am amazed. I will definately use this feature again.
^received. Ha Ha. I'm so excited that I've forgotten how to spell.
I'll agree that any system purchased from the small business side of Dell is better put together than the home/home office side. I've got a 2000 desktop that I had the 3 year warranty with. When the mother board and cpu crashed at year 2.75 they came out and replaced the dead parts. Add to that a 2000 Dell Inspiron notebook that I just retired last year and I'm happy with Dell.
That said, the second desktop I'd purchased was a home system that I got for a steal. It unfortunately it ended it's life cycle at only 4 years old (yea, ancient for computers). But the thing was never upgradeable and was nearly out of date when it was made in 2002.
I guess I just figured everyone knew about the small business section being way better than the home / home office for Dell.
Another point: if your company uses Dell and has a rep, the rep can get you probably the best pricing period, w/ no messing about w/ coupons or any of that crap. The trick: you can use the company's Dell rep for your personal purchase. You provide the credit card and the shipping address, the company provides the customer number, and voila! hassle-free Dell purchases.
"Throw your ethics out the window!"
This could get you in trouble, to provide a little more information on that topic.
To get that kind of deal, "Once your model is off the refurb site, drop it. Voila! New laptop." you need to buy the "Complete Care Warranty" which is basically and Insurance on your syst.
When you call DELL to say that you drop your computer they will ask very specific question and send them to the insurance co. to claim the cost of the replacement computer.
If you lie it will be consider insurance fraud, the insurance co. doesn't investigate all the reports but they do with some.
Are you willing to take the risk?
You have to ASK for a backup disc? Apple sends them to you WITH your computer at no charge. Plus they use FedEx for overnight.
Actualy, apple doesnt bundle a backup disk at all....
They dont need to, due to their liscensing, they just give you the full installer. They assume it wont be pirated or shared since there are so few mac users and mac only runs on apple. Neither of that is true anymore since mac will run on a pc and mac users are growing....but dont tell apple...youll ruin it for the rest of us when they put keys on the software.
Generally this was true since 1 computer = 1 license, so every mac ever sold had a liscense and you could not build your own mac, and they really did not care about piracy of new os.... Also, you can only have pre-supported hardware in a mac[no new or foriegn hardware]
Windows recognizes that X86 is an open platform and windows will be pirated.
There is much more hardware for a pc than a mac, so you really cant package all the drivers for a dell tht uses some no-name graphics, screen mobo inside windows...if ms hasnt even heard of it....same thing with onboard hardware...
A backup disk is basically all of this and it complies with OEM liscensing restrictions of only being able to be installed on the computer it was meant for...
Also, here is an interesting fact.
Time of mac os installation is nearly equal to the run of the backup disk.
The mac os compiler, hardware scanner and defragger are equal in speed to the copying of a backup disk back to a hard drive.....this is due to the high compression used...
Another item that may not be known: If you order a computer and want to make changes to it, contact that division. i.e. Order from Dell Home, no other Dell division (small business, U., etc.) can change or cancel that order...only Dell Home. Lesson learned a long time ago!
@swalve: Actually, if you bought Dell Complete Care with your laptop and you break it by accidentally dropping it, it is covered by your warranty. They will make your laptop functional again either by replacing parts or giving you a refurbished unit.
But that's the thing, refurbished units are always available. Not necessarily a unit of the same model you have. Still, the contract says that if they decide to replace the laptop, they need to give you a unit equivalent or better than what you had. But it does not have to be a new unit.
I'm sort of half tech savvy and half cat loving moron, and I'm actually gearing up right now to buy a computer, probably a Dell. Can anyone here recommend a place I can find out definitively what the best video card, etc, and whatnots are?
any suggestions welcome - I will be wanting great graphics and a huge screen because I make art on the computer. But I don't want a mac.
BRILLIANT!
Actually, the part about outsource support for Home systems is absolutely incorrect. I have called a few times before for technical support and I have spoken to people in Utah and Oklahoma.
In addition, you do not need to pay for the software CDs to be ordered with your system. That is completely false as well. To add to that, if you need another copy to be sent out, they do not charge you for that.
Some really good info, but its not 100% accurate as the person is just a kiosk sales person.
Good information. Reading this all is a marathon. I want one simple result, to get a computer for less. Like we all know that DELL is a relatively good computer BUT it looks like I need to be an information scientist to read these comments and remarks from a DELL salesperson. I think I still will use the phone from home. It saves me the cost of taking the auto from home, and saves me on shopping village parking and all that.
some of the educational/corporate discount models, including the one I bought, still come with the install discs. and no backup partitions eating up space on the drive. a nice bonus.
Comment on printer cartridges. Though results vary by model:
If you buy a dell printer of the laser variety:
1) Be aware that Dell cross brands from Lexmark, Samsung, etc. They don't 'make' their printers.
2) However don't assume that buying a Dell M5200 which is a Lexmark T640 that the Lexmark cartridge will work! Physically the toner shell will fit both units. But due to the fact that there is a personality chip in the shell prevents the swap.
3) Toner cartridges with the personality chip can only be purchased from Dell. If you are a small business and Dell decides to no longer support that supply sometime in the future you end up with a brick for a printer. (My view, the price difference of the Dell to say HP is not worth the risk.) Oh and don't think you can take them to a refiller. Well you can, but legally you became a co conspirator to abridging the DMCA.
A couple of things to add about my own experiences with Dell:
I've got an Inspiron 9300 that I bought a year ago. The battery is dying, the DVD-ROM drive doesn't work anymore, the left control key won't stay on, the power brick already died (had to pay out of pocket for that) AND the front volume controls are flaky.
When I called Dell to complain I was already past my warranty. Their generous offer was I could pay them money so they could run diagnostics on my computer and tell me that everything was broken, and then I would have the privilege of paying full price for the replacement parts. That felt insulting. I mean, the diagnostics are done by software, so it's not like it's terribly difficult to run them, or interpret the results. Either run the diagnostics for free, or make me pay for the diagnostics but give me a discount for the replacement parts.
And then if that wasn't frustrating enough, we got an email giving us a discount on electronics and cameras, so we bought a new Canon Rebel XTi we'd been shopping for anyway. When we got the bill, we were charged full price for it. So we called and spoke to the reps and their answer was "You weren't authorized to use that promotion, so you shouldn't have used it!" Excuse me? If I wasn't authorized to use it, then why did I get it in the first place? We're still fighting this one.
Given these last two experiences, we're not going to buy from Dell again. I used to think of Dell as the Honda of computer makers: middle-of the-road on cost, but high quality and high customer satisfaction. Lately they've been more like the Ford of computer makers, bad on everything. In fact, I almost feel bad comparing Ford to Dell, but only because I don't feel Ford deserves that kind of slap in the face.
Oh, and one thing I'd like to add, the customer service reps were always friendly and knowledgeable.
I don't fault them for my bad experience. My issues are clearly related to company policies.
Sorry Ben If the site slowed. I posted your info over at slickdeals.net and its exploding.
Front Page of DiGG. WOOT!!!!!11
Back to shdwsclan's comment:
Apple does in fact sent full install dvd's of their operating system and their iEverything suites, but they are extremely computer model specific. Say a Mac Mini install won't work with the MacBooks or the Pros or the Tower. Also the case with different runs of the same models.
Pretty much you are SOL of using anyone elses installer unless you have pretty much the exact computer.
Take if from me, my old 12" powerbook hd failed last week and it has been a real trial to find an installer that would work for me without rebuying a retail version of Tiger.
Anyway this is a Dell post not Apple.
To continue with Dell...
Never bought a computer from them but my credit has attempted to multiple times. If you are unfortunate enough to a victim of identity theft, Dell financial is one of the first places they will go to because of how leinent they are with credit checks. Good credit, great. Bad credit, good enough.
Either way just as this informant said it is crazy high interest rates. Just fight it as fast as you can so it doesn't hurt you too bad.
The last time they called me was 2 months ago saying someone opened 5 lines of credit on me. 5!!! Very leinent aren't they.
I'm blocking my credit.
You guys are killing me. Why would you all put up with this?
I purchased this computer in 2000.
Sorry, it's not a PC, it's a Mac. It's an old outdated G-4 dual 533mhz tower, that cost me 2,000 dollars 7 years ago.
I use this thing daily. I hardly ever turn it off. Last year, I swapped out the older CD/DVD just because I And I do mean I wanted a faster model.
In the process, I also added two new Internal hard drives. The Old one was only 40 gig. I had always used an external for back up, and an Iomega just so I could hand carry things around with me.
In The 10 or 12 years, that I have been using apple products, I've had more problems with the add on's, then the computers.
I've gone through 3 different printers, 2 different scanners, 2 cameras, and who knows how many keyboards and mouseys, but the computer still runs faster than my son's Gateway or HP. Both have over 1 gig processors.
Of Course, every now and then you find a piece software, normally from that other company that really dislikes running on a Mac Once you delete it, or Modify it ( hehe), it usually fixes it.
I think I've actually called Apple Tech help twice in the last 12 years.
I do know that the very first time I used Tech Help, was when we found out that they had actually given out the wrong numbers on their paperwork. The Number they gave actually went to a Porn sight. God Bless Apple for knowing how to make their customers feel right at home. LOL.