Consumerist

They should bring back the 5 free blu-ray dvds when you buy a blu ray player deal.

The drama unfolds: Sony actually won a format war, but just how exactly will they bungle their newfound victory? Film at 11.

I'm guessing it's not so much the price, but the fact that, to most consumers, Blu-ray isn't the leap in technology that DVD was from VHS. Sure, pictures are prettier and the discs hold more data, but unless you're a serious cinephile or a gadget geek or head over heels over HD picture, who gives a fuck?

That said, if Sony really wants people to switch, they should take a loss on the players and offer some sort of redemption for movies people already own.

I have a feeling it has more to do with most people not owning HDTV's yet.

Couple this with the fact the prices drop around Christmas, not May.

"Excepting the LG-BH100, PlayStation 3, and Samsung BD-UP5000, the Profile 1.0 players can not be upgraded to be Bonus View or BD-Live compliant."

I'll wait 'till Profile 3.0 is implemented before investing in standalone player, and only if they are sub $200.

Sometimes better isn't always better, look at how VHS beat up LaserDisc.

@spinachdip:

Right.

Who needs Blu-ray players when the (vast?) majority of people don't even have high definition televisions?

aren't blu-ray movies at a premium over regular dvd's too?

Sony is in classic form:for YEARS Sony would NOT put items on sale or allow a retailer to put it on sale.They controlled the price so as the public dare not get used to buying a Sony on sale.You want a Sony you pay a Sony price.

Wasn't the BetaMax(which had a better picture than the VHS) made by Sony as well?

Why would I pay hundreds of dollars for a blue-ray player when I can just download HD movies for free, and watch them in 1080p over HDMI to my television?

Why would I pray hundreds of dollars for a blue-ray player and the additional cost for movies when I can watch them in HD directly from my Comcast DVR for $5 each?

If I decided to purchase a blue-ray player, why would I not by a Playstation 3?

@MakGeek:

VHS crushed laserdisc because VHS _was_ better.

VHS was recordable. Game, set, and match, right there. Picture quality ain't everything.

@JustThatGuy3: That, and laser discs were big and unwieldy and fragile. Form factor matters too.

@pecheckler: I didn't even think about the downloading options. The digital music movement showed people really don't care about owning a physical product.

Another lesson from music is that people are willing to pay for digital media as long as it's easy to use and reasonably priced - with Apple, Netflix and Amazon all getting in the rental download game, I'm thinking the format war wasn't worth winning.

@pecheckler:

Exactly. Honestly, I'm not a fan HD DVD, but I'm even less of a fan of Sony winning the HD DVD war. Get ready for high prices and subpar (considering the technology) products!

I also agree with the guy that said that most people don't own HDTVs. It will probably be at least another three years and price cuts for HDTVs to make an impact.

Plus, you can use up converter DVD players to make the regular DVDs look HD DVD like (From what I've heard, I have no actual experience with this).

Abut the time sales crapped out was the same time disc promotions ended.

It's hard to buy in the new format when new releases come out for $34.99 on Blu-Ray sitting next to the same title on DVD (Sale: $14.99) at your local retailer.

When BR discs are priced as aggressively as DVDs are, then sales will pick up.

I think a lot of people have HDTV's. I was a late adopter, and love it. The fact is that watching at DVD on HDMI output from a DVD player is very, very clear, and I can't see paying any more money for a movie on Blu-Ray.

Perhaps I'm wrong about the HD comment, but I don't think it is too far away. I kick myself for waiting so long to buy an HDTV - they are pretty cheap (I bought a decent one for less than I paid for my top of the line picture tube and am very satisfied with it. Just a shame that I will never be happy with my picture tube TV after upgrading to HD.

@uberbucket: "I'll wait 'till Profile 3.0 is implemented before investing in standalone player, and only if they are sub $200."
There's no such thing as Profile 3.0 - there's 1.0, 1.1 (which is now the minimum), and 2.0. Most people would be satisfied with 1.1.

Almost 50% of homes now have HD televisions. The problems are as follows:

1) DVD -> Blu-ray is not as noticable a jump as VHS -> DVD was. DVDs had menus, chapters, and didn't require rewinding. They also were a visible Picture improvement over VHS that anyone could see. Blu-ray's difference is harder to see, and most people don't care about the extras.

2) Price. Players are $400-plus in the Blu-ray camp. Movies, even at discount outlets like Amazon, run from $19-$30.

3) Even though there are a ton of HDTVs out there, it's still only about half the population that has one - meaning the potential market is chopped in half before you even start.

4) Competition. HD DVD dealt a serious blow to Blu-ray by heavily discounting players. IPTV, AppleTV, Hulu, VuDu, and more are all chipping away at Blu-ray's potential market.

I posted at Engadget earlier today and I stick by my statement - unless a name brand Blu-ray player breaks the $200 mark by Christmas, the format will have missed the boat.

I thought one format would solve all this? At least that's what all the internet forums said. I'm really starting to miss the format war.

I'm just waiting for content to be available for my Apple TV here in Canada.

The only way a Blu-Ray player is getting into this house is attached to a PS3 for GT5.

Canada's Netflix (aka Zip.ca - which by the way has equally amazing customer service), has so few HD titles in stock that we have no other reason to get a Blu-ray player.

There are also many regular DVD players that will upscale to 1080P for $100. Even less of a difference between upscaled DVD and Blue Ray.

@edrebber: Interpolation can't create data that just isn't there. There is no possible way that interpolation can match native quality, period. You're not going to get a poster-size print from a point and shoot that is anywhere near as good as a true pro-quality digital SLR, either.

@stinerman: I've found the improved sound of high-def to be a bigger reason than improved picture to upgrade.

@uberbucket: I'll wait 'till Profile 3.0 is implemented before investing in standalone player, and only if they are sub $200.

Gee, you know, I think the low adoption rate probably comes from several factors:

-DVD is good enough for most people.
-Recession does not bode well for new product adoption.
-Who wants a piece of home electronics you have to upgrade after figuring out how to connect it to teh interwebs?
-Gotta buy everything all over again only a few years after buying the "wow" DVD format.

Blu-Ray and HD-DVD? There was never a war. It was simply a contest over who'd have fewer takers over less time. I can't see Blu-Ray doing very well over the next couple o years - but it'll eventually see popular uptake.

@InfiniTrent: way to just make up numbers.

Here are some REAL numbers:
"As reported in findings from research firm Frank N. Magid Associates, 25 percent of U.S. households or 28 million now have at least one HDTV set, that up from a penetration of 20 percent in September 2007."

Far cry from the 50% number that you pulled out of your ass.

I got my stimilus check yesterday and was interested in buying a Bluray player. Unbelievable prices!!

About $250 to get a Bluray player...a standard DVD player is about $50 (maybe even $20 if you go for the el-chepo brand).

IMHO, the visual quality difference isn't that big of a deal. Yeah, there's more data, more behind the scenes stuff. But in the end, you still have a movie. That's it.

I'll wait until the price falls below $75.

Who wants yet ANOTHER form of media that can get scratched pretty easily. I'll wait until someone comes out with movies on flash drives.

it could also be the disk format is dead. im not renting another dvd from anywhere anymore, the scratches ruin my enjoyment. im not buying a dvd anymore, after a few plays they get the simple scratches too. im not going to the theater anymore $10 for a movie is crazy. ill wait till it comes on stars or ill download it. a small loss in quality is a small price to pay for a movie that doesnt have to be restarted, and restarted and restarted to get past a scratch.

These other comments say it all: BluRay is just too frigging expensive for the performance it delivers, both the hardware and the software. I've seen an upconverted DVD playing on a hi-def set, and it looked fine! Is a BR disc worth $10 over a standard DVD? Not unless it has added content; I'm not paying that premium for higher resolution alone. As for those who say, get a PS3 -- I say, that bugger is still too expensive as well, and the most affordable model has no backward compatibility with PS2. In short, Sony hasn't made a right move with regard to BR or PS3 yet... And yes, the Bush Depression is a hell of a time to be selling expensive and unnecessary new entertainment systems when Americans are wondering how we're going to feed both our cars and our families...

maybe it's that any disk medium is passe. The future is video downloads or streaming.

I'm one of the late adopters on new TV/DVD tech. I still have standard DVD players and tube TVs. I don't plan on upgrading until they die. There are other things that are using up my extra money: kitchen remodel, food, and gas.

Gee...it seems the price issues are a big deterrent...

would be nice if there were an HD disc option based on the same laser as DVDs, so that the players and discs could be made cheaper than blu-rays, rather than having to re-tool whole presses and cost an ass-load...oh, wait...

Bad economic timing + Sony's reluctance to drop prices = low adoption rates.

I'm really looking forward to getting A Blu-Ray player, but until Sony drops the price of the players and the discs, regular DVD will hold me over. I won't spend $30 on a Blu-Ray of a movie I can get on DVD for $10.

When we see sub-$200 players and $20 new release/$10 catalog Blu-Ray discs, people will start upgrading. I expect a hard Blu-Ray marketing blitz this Christmas.

However, I'll never pay to buy a digital download of a movie. Owning a physical copy of a disc gives me the comfort of owning something tangible and the flexibility to trade it, loan it, borrow it, or resell it.

Price isn't much of a matter if you know what to do - PC blu-ray internal drives are about $125-$150. Combine that with Netflix, a hard-drive, and an HDMI output...ta-da! HD-DVD prices!

My personal economics on the matter:

-$35 for refurb Toshiba upconverting DVD player (cost already sunk).
-$10/month for about 6-7 Netflix movies plus nearly unlimited unauthorized downloads

vs.

-$250 for Blu-Ray player
-$25 for a new release movie + very limited selection of older films

Yeah. The marginal improvement in picture/sound quality is not worth the huge increase in cost. I'll stick with what I got for a wee bit longer.

This just goes to show that the format war between Blu-Ray and HD-DVD was only the semi-finals. Good old DVD has been waiting to take on the winner.

Sales won't pick up for these until the holidays. Also don't forget that many current adopters are just getting PS3's instead- this will continue until October when the electronics industry starts pushing next-gen 1080p stuff hard.

Its almost like Business Week doesn't follow consumer electronics at all. These are where HDTV's were 3 years ago- same market adoption curve is coming.

I have a new 50" plasma with 1080i, and 0 blueray. There is just no reason to do it. DVD is good enough for me. With theater prices going through the roof, I don't need my home media going through the roof as well. When BlueRay costs the same as DVD, I'll make the plunge.

Somebody needs to offer the BlueRay quality on DVDs. Take a movie, span it across 2 dvds. I wouldn't mind getting up and switched disks if it saved me 200 bucks.

@amyschiff: Actually, the Blu-Ray have a hard coating on the bottom that is very strong against scraches. Here is an article about the coating that states that it will even be protected against steel wool. Here is the site about the coating on them [www.durabis.com]

@Techguy1138: DING! you are correct, sir!
that and a lot of people that have hdtvs are satisfied with upconverted standard dvds. personally, i like blu-ray. i have a ps3 which i bought for games, and the blu-ray player is nice icing on the cake. i'd also note that my ps2 was also my dvd player for several years when i got it, and only got replaced by a standalone philips because it could read divx/xvid.

I will not get a Blu-Ray player until the DVD stops appearing on shelves. Besides the fact I despise Sony, the upgrade just isn't worth it to me.

I feel dumb. I just realized my new laptop has a blu-ray player for a cd rom. I'm going back to bed...

@InfiniTrent:
Actually there is such thing as Profile 3.0, it's called BD-Audio. Profile 3.0,(BD-Audio) is a separate profile for audio discs, similar to the difference between DVD-Video and DVD-Audio.

I'm just going to buy a blue-ray drive for my HTPC and call it good. You can get one for $180 on newegg.com. Quite a bit cheaper than PS3.

@Buran: While an upscaled DVD won't be as good quality as a Blu-ray disc, the question is whether people can see the difference at normal viewing distances. I've seen convincing arguments that, in a typical living room, there's no visible difference between 720p and 1080i. I suspect the same is true of DVD vs. Blu-ray.

Damn that blu-ray. I still cry about the death of the superior hd-dvd despite the fact that I own both player types.

BR sales are down because prices have gone up...in some cases way up. Also quite a few of my blu-ray (standalone and ps3) owning friends are having issues. Their drives will read normal dvd's but they no longer read blu-rays. This calls the long term reliability into question, at least for 1st and 2nd gen players.

@Orv: True there is no visible difference between 720p and 1080i on a tv set smaller then 42 inches however if its an LCD or plasma the TV is turning the signal into 1080p because they cant display interlaced images.

Above 42 inches the difference becomes quite clear. There is also a visible difference between 1080i and 1080p as long as the 1080p signal is native.

The difference between dvd and hd (blu-ray, hd-dvd, cable/satellite) is quite large and if you cant tell the difference you really need your eyes checked at least twice. Even my non caring girlfriend can spot the difference and quite often when we rent a blu-ray encoded in h.264 or mpeg2 she will comment on how bad it looks when compared to a movie encoded in VC-1...impressive when you consider she isnt a huge geek like I am.

Also for anyone looking to buy a blu-ray drive...I wouldnt right now. You need to make sure you are getting one compatible with the latest spec to take advantage of new movies and features and most standalone players right now cant be updated. The best player is still the PS3 because it can be updated for everything. Dont wanna miss out do you?

Sony left that little part out during their promotion and its going to piss ALOT of people off sooner or later.

It is all about the fact that the economy blows right now, and I have more important things to pay for (i.e. food, a mortgage, utilities) than an overpriced luxury item. When they decide to play fair and bring down prices a la Toshiba, then we'll talk. Otherwise, I'm pretty happy with standard DVDs and Satellite TV.

I may be a little thin skinned here, but ...

Sony is the company who put rootkits on its music CDs. I played one of those CDs on my computer. No, I didn't rip it, I played it just to hear the music at my computer. The rootkit basically disabled my CD writing ability. Not knowing that it was a rootkit; this was before the story broke. I replaced the drive ($60). When the drive didn't write, I exchanged it for another. It didn't write either. That's when I suspected Windows. I re-installed Windows (2 days lost work to reinstalling everything else too).

Some months later the rootkit story broke.

So, Sony, you are on my "Disqualified for Life" vendor list. Never, ever, ever will I buy a Sony product again. I was a long time Sony fan. I have a receiver, VHS, DVD player, walkman, ... So, when it becomes time to buy that 50+ inch flat TV, surround sound home theatre system, you can bet your ass that it won't be a Sony.