Consumerist
There's something deeply wrong with HP these days. It seems that instead of just fixing your laptop's overheating issue, they'd rather accuse Amazon.com of selling fake HP laptops and deny your warranty. Reader Floria says that even though she got a letter from Amazon stating that there's no possible way they sold her a fake or refurbished laptop, and then escalated her complaint to a "senior case manager" who approved the repair, HP still hasn't fixed her computer. Is anyone in charge over there?
Floria's letter is pretty long, so we'll quickly summarize it for you:
- Floria, a systems administrator, bought an HP laptop on June 25, 2007, from Amazon.com. The laptop has overheating issues so she sent it to HP to be repaired under the 1 year warranty.
- HP denied warranty coverage because ""HP only covers Software, and since we need to replace your motherboard which is hardware, we're not covering it," and tried to charge her $746.86.
- She checked her warranty, saw that it covered "hardware" and called back. She was again told that HP doesn't cover hardware. She pressed for more information and was told that her motherboard didn't have a serial number, so her laptop must be refurbished or "fake" and therefore not under warranty.
- She calls Amazon.com and they write her an letter confirming that they did not sell her a fake laptop.
- She calls HP and is told that HP warranties only cover software. She tries to escalate her complaint and met with much resistance. Finally she gets a "senior case manager" on the phone. He approves repair on her laptop.
- HP then contacts Floria to tell her that her motherboard doesn't have a serial number and they are voiding her warranty. She tells them a senior case manager approved the repair. They have no idea what she is talking about.
On June 25, 2007, I received my first HP Pavilion tx1220us tablet pc bought at $1400 sold by Amazon.com, when this product was just released to the market for a week. It was brand new, HP factory sealed. I checked the serial number on the back of the laptop, and it matched the box and in the bios configuration. I was able to register with HP, and activate the 1 year warranty which will be ending on June 26, 2008.
We rejoin Floria on the day her laptop is supposed to come back from repair for an overheating issue:
On April 29, 2008, it's the expected delivery day of my laptop. I checked the online status and found out they decided to charge me $746.86 because my laptop is malfunctioning and "Out of Warranty". I called the number immediately at 11:30pm. They said someone tried to call me and left me a message on my voicemail yesterday. I said I gave you my cell phone number, and I never received such call or message. I asked why I was being charged because my laptop is still under warranty. The lady said "HP only covers Software, and since we need to replace your motherboard which is hardware, we're not covering it." I was shocked. I told her this is not what the warranty terms are when I purchased my laptop. I asked if she can send me the piece of information. She transferred me to another department which was closed at that time.
So, I quickly gathered all my Amazon.com receipts, product description, even the HP warranty information on the hp.com website. It clearly shows that 1 year parts and labor, 30 days for software. And when entering my serial number, it shows my warranty is going to expire in June 26, 2008.
I called again and thinking this would be a quick fix, but I almost got a heart attack. I told the representative that I called previously and the lady said only software is covered, which is incorrect. The guy said, HP only covers software warranty. I said, no it is not because I have my warranty information to prove it. So, he said, "the motherboard is a component of the computer that HP is not covering it." I asked "why is my motherboard not covered when it's a part of the computer?" He said "It's because we do not cover hardware" I almost fell out of the chair and asked "Could you please tell me why the motherboard is not covered? What's wrong with it?" He pulled out the technician's note and said "First of all, your motherboard does not have a serial number, and that's why we are not covering it."
I said, "My laptop came with a serial number matching the box and warranty information, what are you talking about?" He said "the motherboard serial number is different than the laptop serial number." I said "so, how would I know why the motherboard does not have a serial number?" He said "Maybe your seller just swapped the motherboard or sold you a refurbished one?" I said "There is no way that my laptop is not a brand new. It's HP Sealed and sold by Amazon.com. Are you telling me the HP seal is a fake one too?" He said "Probably." I asked, "With my laptop serial number, does my laptop match every specification on your HP database?" He said "Yes." I said, "That's what HP built and sold to me. As a customer/consumer, who will take their laptop apart and check if there's a serial number on the motherboard before they buy?" He argued, "But HP will not ship anything without a serial number." I do not want to argue with this nonsense, and asked to speak to his supervisor. He refused and said "my supervisor cannot help you because this will not change the fact that your motherboard does not have a serial number." I said, I want to talk to them anyway because this is just not right. He asked me to call Amazon.com and see why they swapped my motherboard. I said, I will call but I still need to speak to your supervisor. He said, call back the next morning to talk to a case manager.
So, I hang up and called Amazon.com. Matthew was on the call with me and I told him I bought a laptop from Amazon in June last year, and the laptop is overheating. So I sent it back to HP for repair, however they do not want to honor the warranty due to the product you sold me does not have a serial number on the motherboard. They said it's either refurbished or fake. At first, he said it was past the 30 days return policy and he did not want to deal with it. I added, "Look, HP is telling me you sold me a laptop that is not brand new. I cannot use my warranty and this is misrepresentation. I know it sounds stupid, but that is what HP did to me and they asked me to contact you." So, Matthew went researching the case for me and told me they got their stock directly from HP. They sent me an email to indicate they sold me a brand new product and they got directly from HP.
I connected back to my online chat at 1:45am. I told them what happened to me. They checked, my laptop is still under warranty, and they said they will escalate my case to "Concern Department" and guaranteed I will receive a call within 48 hours. It is almost 2:30am when everything is done. I was so mad and could not get to sleep with all these "unbelievable" things happened to me for the last 3 hours.
The next morning, I called and tried and asked to speak with a case manager. They are not letting me unless I re-explain what happened again. So, I finally got a hold with a case manager named Kenneth Cooper. He said he will call me back within 48 hours once he obtained a quote from the Repair Department.
The same night, I called again to HP Total care and asked them a "is motherboard part of the parts warranty." Without even giving them the case number or my serial number, Parry Viti immediately told me "HP Warranty only covers Software." It's the third person telling me HP Warranty only covers SOFTWARE. I said, "That's not right, you are the third person in the department telling me HP Warranty only covers Software. I need to speak to your supervisor." She said "My supervisor is not going to help you." I said "I need to speak to them." She refused to transfer me when asked for 5 times. At the end, she said "My supervisor is not working at this time, none of them is here right now."
So, 48 hours had passed, and no one call me from the "Concern Department." So, I get onto online chat again and gave them my case number and asked "why no one is contacting me?" The technician once again escalated my case to the Concern Department.
I did not get a call from the senior case manager, Kenneth Cooper. So I decided to call him on May 2. Although he gave me his work extension number, my call is screened by another person before he is willing to transfer. He said he will leave Kenneth a message and call me back as soon as possible. 3 hours had passed, and I still haven't received his call. So, I called again, and finally got him on the phone. He said, I got the technician notes, I checked and I saw your laptop is under warranty, I have sent them a note to fix it.
I asked, why did 3 different HP Customer Rep say HP only covers Software in their warranty?. In addition, when asked to transfer to their supervisor, they all have the power to reject the customer's request. I asked if I could speak to Customer Satisfaction. He said there is no such department. I asked, what about quality control? He said no. So, I asked "I know HP has a Concern Department, is it possible if you could transfer me to them?" He said "No, we don't have such department." I said, "My case was escalated to the Concern Department twice and you are telling me that department did not even exist? I wonder where my case got transferred to." He laughed. I added, "So who could I talk to with the service that I had received in the past week?" He said "you will be given to a link to a survey once the case is closed." I asked "Could I talk to someone live about this?" He laughed and said "No, even if you write an email to the CEO, your email will come back to our department."
I said, "I am very impressed with how poor the HP Customer Service is, and HP does not even have Customer Care/Satisfaction department." He said "Yeah." I added "I would make sure this will be my first HP product and definitely will be my last HP product." He said "Okay." I added, "I could not recommend any HP products anymore to my users, clients, friends and family." He answered "Alright, if that's what you chose to do." This is how a HP senior case manager is treating their customers who definitely have purchasers influence.
On May 5 at 6:30pm, I finally received my first call ever from the HP Order Status department, he told me "your laptop's motherboard is missing a serial number, and due to that our warranty does not cover that." I told them a senior case manager had sent the repair department a note to go ahead and fix it. He said, "Oh really? When did that happen?" I said "Last Friday."
May 6, I tried calling the senior case manager again but he was not available to take my call. (I am glad about this) I talked to another case manager named Jean who picked up the phone, she is a much nicer person and she pulled out my case. She found out Kenneth did not give proper authorization to the repair department to fix my laptop.
My best guess is HP wants to wait until my laptop warranty expires before they want to fix my laptop. I have been out of my laptop for a month already, and I need it for a trip in mid May. I once recommended a HP laptop to my friend, and she came back and told me "HP sucks!!!" I asked why and said my laptop is fine and that I had no problems so far. I did not knock on wood for that, and I got my turn to experience the service from "Award-Winning HP Total Care support" – and they definitely got the "Worst Customer Service ever Award". Now, I just have to join her and say HP sucks!
Sincerely,
Floria
Well, Floria, now that you've gotten all that off your chest, we'd try writing a concise email to HP's executive customer relations department. Here's some contact information for you:
Daniel Bulnes
Executive Customer Relations
Palo Alto, Ca.
650-857-3523
daniel.bulnes@hp.com
Anyone else had HP tell them that their 1 year warranty on a new laptop "only covers software?" That's a new one for us.
(Photo: wlodi )
Comments
Well, that seems cruel.
Complete and utter garbage - HP is the worst of the worst.
What the hell's the "only cover software" thing all about? Every computer vendor I've dealt with would only fix the hardware. Software issues were either charged for or referred to Microsoft / whoever the software vendor was. When I was doing phone support for a UK retailer a few years ago, all HP laptops were referred back to HP as I recall.
Either she was through to some software support line or something is seriously strange over at HP...
@aphexbr: I get the feeling that's code for "the real reason we're not doing this is so contrived and unbelievable that we are going to make up something". Plus, the voice/style/diction of the post suggests to me that the OP is maybe not a native speaker or particularly articulate and depending on her voice, the idiots over at HP might have fed her a line thinking she'd buy it.
The warranty situation in the US really shocks me sometimes. Over here in the UK, it's the merchant's responsibility first and foremost to replace faulty goods, and even if they give you the heave-ho, manufacturers' warranties run for at least a year. Companies like Nintendo and Creative Labs often do two-year warranties. It's taken for granted that the manufacturer's going to look after your product for a reasonable amount of time, and not treat everything after the first month as an opportunity to extract cash from you.
Don't buy HP? Obviously the people there are just a pack of lairs.
I've got this one.
They probably thought her name was Fiorina instead of Floria. She needs to say her name is Hurd.
All these "bad manufacturer" posts, and I have yet to see any mention of Apple winning Consumer Reports' computer manufacturer customer satisfaction survey, nor any of the other results.
What gives?
Well Floria, I will never buy an HP. You have un-sold me on them permanently. Thanks for sharing.
Wow. Longwinded.
I just got off the phone with HP this morning over an issue with my workstation.
Their basic response was "live with it, we're not going to look into it anymore".
Seriously, there's something else going on here. No manufacturer would tell a customer that "we only cover software" unless said customer had gotten into the wrong branch of the IVR tree - and then, they should transfer her to repairs.
Something's not right here, and I don't think it's all entirely HP's fault - call center people read from scripts - they just aren't this flipping creative.
Unbelievable. That is utter nonsense. HP does NOT cover software AT ALL, only their hardware. No computer manufacturer I know of covers software. Software is only covered by the software manufacturer.
Holy crap, I can just hear the sound that woman's head must have been making every time she had to beat it against the wall after being told yet again by a new agent, "The warranty [that she had RIGHT in front of her] only covers software."
And it's clear they are just trying to pull one on her:
HP: we don't cover hardware
Customer: I have the warranty in front of me, yes you do.
HP: Um, well your motherboard is missing a serial number, so it doesn't matter.
What? what's creepy is that since she heard the same lines from a number of different agents and departments, this must be some sort of sanctioned company policy...
What probably happened is that they invalidated her hardware warranty, and thus the only warranty left was the HP software warranties (from the bloatware they put on the computer)
@CaliforniaCajun: Because nobody likes Apple fanbois. Perhaps you are typing your message on your "not 1 million colors" LCD screen that they're being sued over.
For further explanation why Apple people are the worst, see the corresponding Maddox article. Google it.
Having dealt with HP support in the past, I absolutely believe this woman's story. Terrible outsourced customer servie was par for the course when I had to seek support. I responded by never buying another HP product since.
Gateway denied my warranty, stating Amazon sold me a "USED" laptop.
Sucks, man! They are all bastards. Next time, I will buy an Apple.
All this makes me really glad that my Apple never gives me trouble and my dad does all the "support" I need for any PC products.
Wow this is surprising, I have had pretty good experiences with HP.
I have had 2 problems with my laptop in the year since I got it and both were fixes almost immediately.
First I had a issue with the mother board which caused the wifi not to work, had it fixed and back to me within a week. Next my hard drive decided to fail on me and they send me a new one in 2 days.
Thanks for publishing my story. I had been trying to reach someone from "Customer Care" but I was told no such department exists in HP. I was told even if I write an email to the CEO on the HP website, it will go back to the case manager.
I concur, HP/Compaq laptops and their repair service is iffy at best. I'm typing this on a Compaq laptop that was a replacement for a piece o'crap that had keyboard issues. My 2 month ordeal and my experience with this current machine has taught me to avoid HP products, and their scamware infected PCs. (Can't wait until this machine dies and I can, with clear conscious, buy a new laptop.)
The best thing for people to do to avoid things like this from happening when buying computers is to NEVER buy a computer third-party.
You want a HP? Buy from HP
You want a Dell? Buy from Dell
ETC.
Buying third-party from Amazon or Best Buy, Wal-Mart, whoever is just asking for trouble. You should save enough money for it to be worth opening yourself to this kind of risk.
This way to ensure the paper-trail always leads back to the manufacturer and not to some third-party.
It seems to me that HP - a manufacturer, who Amazon claimed to be selling, is stating that you purchased a non-authentic product.
Obtain the repair quote in writing, along with HP's comments, (hardware not covered / motherboard not authentic, no serial number).
Then contact Amazon's fraud department. Demand a replacement laptop. When the decline, assuming its too late to do a chargeback, advise them that if not remedied in 48 hours you will contact the police and perhaps Feds / FBI who are very involved in the prevention of sales of counterfit goods.
Either HP or Amazon is lying and it is not up to you to mediate.
Good luck!
I agree that the whole "we only guarantee software" seems strange. Usually the first thing a hardware company would tell you is that they ony cover the hardware. If you have a software issue you have to deal with the software company.
I hear this conspiracy theory alot about stalling repairs until the warranty expires. Even if a company tried this wouldn't they have to cover it? The problem obviously started while the warrantee is in effect.
I could see a disreputable company trying to weasel out of covering a repair if it was within a few days of the warranty expiring. I can't see them holding on to the item for months and then trying it.
I'm sure lots of irate customers claim to work in IT or control millions of dollars in IT spending and threaten to boycott (insert company name)if they don't get what they want. So I'm not too surprised the customer rep. didn't seem very concerned.
@Skokie
That is the best bit of advice I have seen so far.
@hatrack, but it happens. I know a few people who have refused to buy a company's products due to poor action on that company's part.
@Skokie
I agree with Shaftoe. The most likely explanation is that Amazon sold a refurbished computer. In fact, the OP may have inadvertently purchased something advertised as a refurb (I've done this before). This may also explain "we only warranty software" -- on a refurb, the only thing "new" is the HP bundled software.
If Amazon didn't overtly sell a refurb, then the OP can also go after Amazon in small claims court.
"I could not recommend any HP products anymore to my users, clients, friends and family."
Unfortunately, even if 100,000 people did this, HP and other awful companies (I'm looking at you, GATEWAY!) still have enough global ties, business contracts, and clout to keep their CEOs' $bazillion paychecks flowing.
I work at a high school performing systems support. We recently switched from MPC to HP computers. I am going to post this story in the district-wide electronic message board for technicians. I hope to god that this isn't a sign of things to come...
This has me worried.. My GFs laptop is on its way back to HP after a MB overheating problem caused it to die and even though its JUST out of warranty they said it would be taken care of and they sent us the prepaid box that is on its way back to them today. I hope we don't get jammed over this. We bought the system from Best Buy and it was definitely new.
@Shaftoe: @salguod_senrab:
Thank you for your kind words! Are there prizes for best comments and advice? A Best Buy gift card perhaps?
Note that it is unlikely that the OP accidently purchased a refurb, as she did contact Amazon about the problems and likely Amazon would have reminded the OP if this were the case. Additionally, it is unlikely that the consumer would have been able to register and produce warranty documention for the 1 year warranty, P/L if it were not a new product.
The laptop is HP factory sealed, and the product was only on the market for 1 week when I first bought it. Everything is new, and I can activate my 1 year parts and labor warranty online no problem.
I tried talking/writing to Amazon. Their response is:
"Greetings from Amazon.com.
I'm sorry for the issues that you are having with HP regarding the warranty. Unfortunately, Amazon.com did send you a new Laptop (AMD Turion 64 Processor TL64, 2 GB RAM, 200 GB Hard Drive, Vista Premium) directly from Hewlett Packard. This item was not refurbished.
With most warranties you have to register the computer within so many days of it being purchased. If your warranty had been deemed invalid by HP, you would have been notified at that time. The order was placed June 19, 2007. Our returns policy for items is 30 days. If any problems were encountered with the item or with HP within those thirty days, we would have been able to help you out in some way. However, due to the time that has passed since your order was placed and when your warranty was registered, we are unable to help you any further.
I understand that you are upset, and I regret that we have not been able to address your concerns to your satisfaction. Unfortunately, we will not be able to offer any additional insight or action on these matters.
We've appreciated your business and hope to have the opportunity to serve you again in the future."
I wrote to them again asking for original invoice to prove their claim that they got the laptop directly from HP. So far no response from them.
@skokie
The reason she'd be able to register it is because it could have been refurbished by a third party; the s/n on the outside would still be valid, and it's only when it gets opened up that it would be revealed as a refurb. The documentation could easily have been left in the box through the refurb process.
As for Amazon, I should have read the OP more carefully.
What a nightmare. Ideally what you'd like to be able to do is sue HP and Amazon at the same time, and let the court sort it out, but that's a tad sophisticated for small claims court.
With the advent of the Interlog and the high rate of scams, it doesn't seem far-fetched to me that HP et al. would think this. Don't get me wrong: more often than not, the customer is right.
I'm just wondering if there is some happy medium ground that can be reached for HP to verify laptop is indeed valid.
the first sign of downfall is when a company that sells hardware along with software can/will only give you warranty on the software ....
I'm going to have to pull out my Internets "OMG-I'ma-Expert-In-Teh-Field!!" chops and say, as an IT professional of 13 years, HP support has always been "the suck".
If by "these days" you mean "since at least 1995", then the opening sentence is spot-on.
Did she pay with a credit card? One with extended warranty protection? If not, I guess she's stuck, otherwise, contact the credit card company and file a claim.
P.S. This is exactly why I make all major purchases using my AMEX card.
I have always bought hp laptops and desktops. The last time I had to send a laptop back it was an utter disaster. In the UK HP contracts out its technical repairs these days. My laptop was picked up by secure courier. To cut a very long story short I ended up being told that my laptop was lost in the courier's warehouse for a month - then they finally found it and did the repair. No apologies. It was only after speaking to the office of the head of HP in the UK that they actually bothered to find out where my laptop was. Thankfully the HP parts store is efficient and I can normally fix it myself. I would never send it away again!
Can you do an article on what laptop to get? I am in the market for two laptops, one to send with my son as he enters college in August and one lightweight relatively inexpensive small screen one to download photos on from my CF cards when I travel.
I've had a horrible customer service experience with a Best Buy/Sony Vaio where the power source failed twice and Sony refunded me my money after Best Buy refused. I had to send in the computer for three weeks right at Christmas card season (busy time for photographers). I am completely capable of replacing a power source but was basically told "that's not a good idea, little lady".
I have a high-end/expensive Dell desktop running Vista which is slower than molasses that I use mostly for Photoshop for my photography business. My husband has a Dell that works fine now that he's had a local computer shop add on a bunch of extras to run some game he likes to play.
I've boycotted Toshiba also because they refused to pay me my $350 rebate on a laptop even though I sent in everything correctly and had the copies to prove it.
Now it sounds like HP customer service is also a nightmare...what should I do?
HP apparently stands for Hates People or Half-ass Performance
And this is why I write down the serial numbers of all computers and their internal parts that I purchase...
But...if I were her, I'd do what someone above me said: Refer it back to Amazon, with HP's response about the missing serial numbers on the motherboard, etc. If there is no serial numbers on the motherboard, and Amazon claims the laptop was new and not refurbished, then the fault lies with Amazon for supplying a refurb laptop as new, even if they were not aware. Give them 48 hours to respond, and then hand it over to your lawyer to take care of.
@hatrack - I know a ton of IT pros that get more or less complete say about what companies they're orgs do business with. Especially small/medium size businesses that don't get mass discounts. Most my IT associates get a budget, then go shopping and buy whatever brand makes them happy.
I think if I were the customer I'd be on the phone with HP demanding proof that the motherboard is fake. I'd want it in writing. I'd let them know I'm filing criminal charges against Amazon.com (who has to be a major business partner) and that I'll need full names of the support personnel who inspected the hardware to subpeona. Ask for their legal department and ask who their subpeona processor is. Let them know that either Amazon.com or HP is commiting fraud and that you aren't going to let it go until the situation is resolved.