Ooops, I guess I am offender too! I take the ones people send me stuff in and flip them inside out as well. I can see some logic in this if people skeeze NEW ones from the post office for the purpose of using them inside out... but old ones? hmmmmmm

This makes sense, the USPS isn't a charity they provide the boxes ONLY to be used as Priority Mail Boxes...

Or you could do what I do... Just wrap the package in brown shipping paper...

What they're worried about, I gather, is people ordering the free USPS boxes online and then using them for something other than shipping using those services. If you could only buy the boxes, yeah, no harm no foul, but misusing the free ones seems unethical (and possibly illegal).

@rainmkr: I think the key problem is how do they determine who legitimately recycled a box and who is just getting them from the post office and misusing them?

Of course rather than criminalizing the innovative reusers, they could just come up with a better solution!

You're missing the point. USPS buys shipping materials at significant cost and provides them free to those who agree to use them only for their service. Seriously, you can go to their website and order a dozen boxes delivered for nothing. The problem is people using NEW boxes for other purposes. USPS can neither prevent this, nor tell the difference between used and new boxes (esp. when they're turned inside out).

When will they just let them die. The government needs to stop bailing USPS out and let the private sector take over.

and stop running over my freaking flowers which is surrounded by stone!!

USPS sucks and so is all the physical spam you shove in my damn mailbox!

Also USPS is now marking the brown side of the box to prevent use for lower class shipping.

Now, this just makes me want to gather every used USPS box I can find, pile them in a pile and set them on fire.
(and giggle like a little girl the whole time)

USPS is such an outdated worthless "business".

My guess is that the guy in question is a much more egregious offender than what we are led to believe. I would guess an ebayer or the like that does this quite often.

I hate to be that guy who calls the guy out, but it would take a postal clerk a far amount of excess work to get attention paid to the situation. And I can't imagine this happening because a guy tried to use one Priority box like this.

That or he ordered a ton of them from the website and turned all of them inside out.

I believe these priority boxes and envelopes are free. So I imagine this is to prevent people from going into their post office, snagging a couple of boxes, and doing the aforementioned process of turning them inside out.

The cost of the box/envelope is included in the delivery charge.

So the USPS can't tell if you are recycling like Gary, or stealing like others are surely doing.

For those complaining about the USPS I have had better luck shipping through them than any corporate carrier. The clerks at the office on the other hand can be a varied lot- from helpful to downright uninformed, rude, and condescending.

I have a thought experiment with the USPS that always seems to have a counter intuitive conclusion. Since the USPS is a federal body its employees are federal officers. Thus if you shoot a USPS mailman its a federal crime. But so is shooting a Secret Service agent. So basically shooting a mailman is almost the same as shooting a secret service agent. If you had some TSA "oh we're totally doing a random search and not discriminating against Arabs" name and shot a mailman, you'd probably be charged with treason and go to jail forever in Abu Ghraib.

@MrGutts: While USPS competes with other private shipping companies on popular services, they also provide mail services to rural areas where a private company would be unwilling to do business, at least at the stated USPS rates. The USPS's official status as a government monopoly (in some aspects of its business) allow it to provide services that private companies would find very difficult.

In other points, I've always wondered why FedEx and the USPS give away their shipping boxes. Why not just charge 10 cents (or whatever they cost) for the boxes and reduce the shipping fee by 10 cents? That way, they wouldn't have to make silly rules like this, and people would only take what they needed to send shipments ... or they'd just buy boxes for their own purposes without the USPS taking a loss.

Fuck the law. I'd do it anyway, and let the Feds come get me. I'd love to get my 15 minutes of fame on CNN, especially when I get to point out something so incredibly stupid.

@MrGutts: Let me know when you find a cheaper way to send a physical piece of mail. USPS is good for regular mail, but not as good for shipping boxes, etc. But they're often cheaper.

Oh and the Constiution (Art 1, Sect 8) gives the legislature the power to provide the postal system. It's not clear if its mandatory or permissive.

Well all things said, I am a merchant and am super happy with USPS. They are hands down cheaper than UPS for regular 1 to 2 pound packages, and they now pick up metered priority rate boxes free (used to cost $10/box). My loss/delay rate on packages is really, really low, like 0.2%. Frankly I don't understand why anyone uses UPS except for bulky stuff.

As far as clerks go, the ones here are fantastic but that's because I'm in a rather small city. My experience is when you get into larger cities, USPS service is generally surly or arrogant. I don't care though, as my mailing requirements never change and as long as the stuff gets on its way I don't really care.

"he could be charged with misuse of postal property"

If I remember correctly, you have to PAY for these boxes, which makes them the property of the sender, and when it gets sent, that ownership transfers to the recipient. So in my completely non-professional (law-wise) mind, that makes the box the property of whomever is in possession of it!

They need to rethink their promo model. You can get rolls of their Priority Mail tape for free (and delivered free, too). Don't tape non-Priority Mail with it, but useful for a quick home tape job.

@MrGutts: I believe the USPS has been self sufficient for a while, without much government aid. As outmoded its model is in theory, you'd be very hard pressed to find an even more efficient solution to physically deliver letters, parcels, etc. in practice.

@Erwos: Agreed. If a box has been used before and paid for its original purpose, then I don't really see the harm in being able to reuse the box for a different purpose.

Our USPS service is so bad, I've had to pay extra for delivery confirmation on anything of any importance. Both coming and going, I've had numerous items just disappear into the abyss that is the USPS.

I found this site [postalinspectors.uspis.gov] but I don't hold out much hope that it will work.

Don't be silly, readers. The USPS needs all the old boxes to store lost mail in.

I use my Priority Boxes as a box only. I use them to carry stuff around, instead of using a bag...
Is that illegal?

@GreatCaesarsGhost: "You're missing the point. USPS buys shipping materials at significant cost and provides them free to those who agree to use them only for their service."

Doesn't sound like a good business model. Perhaps they should include the cost of the box in what they charge for priority mail service?

The real problem is when the huddled masses, hungry from the ever rising price of grain, begins picking up these boxes and eating them. See, the USPS is thinking ahead. They are worried.

In the past I have ordered 100+ boxes from USPS for selling items on eBay. You have to ship priority mail, but I like that and so do my customers anyways.

The cost of 100 boxes plus delivery would be very high, yet it's free, since the cost is built into the priority mail shipping cost.

I completely understand where the USPS is coming from.

This makes sense, they differentiate the boxes by their labels, if it says Priority it makes their job harder if the box is being sent Parcel. They let you reuse other boxes, just not the Priority and Express UNLESS you are mailing by Priority or Express. UPS wouldn't let you reuse a 2nd day envelope to send a ground shipment. So YOU CAN REUSE them long as you send using the appropriate service.

We should all assure USPS that we take their complaints seriously.

While USPS competes with other private shipping companies on popular services, they also provide mail services to rural areas where a private company would be unwilling to do business, at least at the stated USPS rates. The USPS's official status as a government monopoly (in some aspects of its business) allow it to provide services that private companies would find very difficult.

Not just rural areas, but remote areas, as well. It's true that private companies have been able to compete on parcel and express delivery, but delivering a letter from New York to California for 41 cents wouldn't be sustainable as a profit-making business model. Private companies can compete on certain profitable segments of the postal market, and total privatization might be more "economically efficient" in the technical sense, but wouldn't be so good for the country as a whole. The fact that it costs the same amount of money to send a letter, no matter where in the country you're sending it, is a pretty big deal.

I've actually had USPS fail to deliver and return a package to the sender that was shipped only about 5 miles from me. It quite literally would have only been in two post offices and two trucks at the most... The address information was correct too...

Seriously though, what do they expect people to do? Return them to USPS? I am not going to throw away a perfectly good box just because the USPS thinks it owns the box wherever it is in the world.

I have sold stuff on eBay and one of the worst problems is finding boxes to ship the stuff in. You would be surprised at what it costs to purchase a new box; especially if you are not buying them in bulk.

Many times I have received eBay purchases where people had turned the boxes inside out, though not lately, because I hardly ever buy stuff on eBay anymore.

@satoru: Holy leap of logic, Satoru.

Nobody's talking about murder here, just boxes.

You might want to look up your definition of treason, too.

By the way, I've had much better luck in my area (Northern VA) with USPS than UPS/Fedex. I know my mailman, and he doesn't just dump stuff on my doorstep like UPS.

That, and I have a PO box from USPS where I can get mail when out of town, for $50/year. The UPS store charges almost that much per month.

The USPS also is a place I can go to get things notarized, get money orders, and renew my passport.

That, and they are not taxpayer funded - they're fully independent (and profitable) as a loosely connected arm of the government.

They deliver mail and packages where private companies won't, and they deliver on saturday for no extra charge.

Priority Mail gets stuff in 2 days for about 1/5th the cost of Fedex, and even overnight express mail is a heck of a lot cheaper than Fedex overnight.

The USPS is hardly outmoded or obsolete. This is not an ad, just an endorsement from someone who ships/sends a lot of crap.

haha, i use their priority mail boxes for my 1st class postage on my half.com stuff all the time, i just wrap them. its a box, i'm still using usps just not the priority mail service. if you are buying loads of boxes from them and doing nothing with them or not shipping with them, i can see a problem they might have. easy solution: make 1st class boxes or just make people pay.

the way i see it, why pay for a bubble mailer when i can wrap a post office box for a dvd and save myself a buck?

Why not just make people buy the boxes?

@MrGutts:

I'll pay attention to your company when they can deliver a first class letter across the country for $.41.

I ship with USPS daily, mostly Priority Mail. I appreciate having these boxes available to me as it cuts my costs down and I can pass that savings onto the person I am shipping the item to.

I order them online, my latest batch has Priority Mail printed on the inside of the box now. That should keep people from reusing them.

Okay, let me chime in on this. When I first read the story I thought that the USPS was crazy, BUT after finding out that these boxes are FREE I realized that technically these boxes are still the property of the USPS and when you order them they do clearly state that they are for the sole purpose of using them with their services. Used boxes I can see making an exception for, but honestly I'm in favor of the USPS even if they don't care about the environment.

They even ship them to you for FREE.

Assuming that USPS did business study on giving away the boxes versus making people buy the boxes (i.e. less likely to use their service if you have to buy their boxes; or just ordering boxes and not using them for shipping at all).

Still, you really should be able to reuse the box if you turn it inside out.

Better yet, turn in the reusable boxes to USPS for a small 'finders fee'. You get a little cash back and the USPS saves money by not having to buy new boxes.
Perhaps you should be able to trade the priority box for a free non-priority box.

If they're giving the boxes out for free then I suppose they can make them conditional on following terms and conditions, such as not using them for other services. I can see that.

Nikko: Because, technically, it's theft, and your actions cost taxpayers and stamp-buyers money.

It reminds me of that scene in Office Space. Peter Gibbons tells his girlfriend of his scheme for skimming a few fractions of a cent off of millions of bank transactions. His girlfriend (Jennifer Aniston) says it's theft. No it's not, he says, it's just a few fractions of a cent per transaction.

But they add up to a lot of money, she says.

Yes, he says.

And it's not yours, she says.

Technically, no, he says.

"And how is that not theft."

Not a big deal, but technically, those boxes aren't yours.

On the other hand (jeez what a lot of wasted pixels over boxes), if the box has been used one time for its legitimate purpose, then I see no basis at all for USPS to complain about them being RE-used. After that initial use, any reasonable person would conclude that whoever is in possession of that box owns it, and since USPS does not ask you to return it, you should be able to do whatever you want with it.

USPS is far better than UPS, DHL and in some ways still better than FedEx. Having them tied to the gubmint gives us a level of control over them we would never get if this was handed off to some private sector company to do.

But I am still unclear what I can do with my used priority mail boxes without landing myself in Gitmo.

Let me understand. I buy something from eBay and the seller sends it in a USPS Priority mail box. Now I decide to sell something on eBay and want to re-use the box but I'm going to use FedEx because their shipping is cheaper and I can do if from work. If I turn the box inside out, pack/tape it up I'm violating some Federal law? Am I supposed to return the used box to the post office or should I just have it added to the local landfill?

This is SO stupid.

Boxes are free is you use there service.

I do agree that once the box was shipped it should be allowed to be reused by flipping it inside out.

I've had problems with all shippers. USPS, Fed-Ex, Ups, Air-Borne express. none are prefect. At least for small things USPS is affordable. A missplaced box that cost me 40 dollars to ship, is a bigger pia then a late 10 dollar shipment.

I have a question. The article says that it's a "violation of postal regulations."

How are postal regs the same thing as federal law?

The USPS has a big deal with people using their stuff.

They give out their trays and sleves for them for free to mailing houses. If you do enough busness with USPS, they drive semis to your mailing house to give you trays. They don't mind if you use their stuff, as long as you use it for its purpouse.

Hell, I think they even give rubber bands free of charge to mailing houses.

@tcp100:
and others that recognize USPS for the value it is:

CHEERS.

Two of my favorite Government entities are the USPS and the IRS, the USMC comes in a close third.

There may be surly carriers or counter folk, but its really a bargain for the service they provide.

If time is not a issue and I need to send my mom something. It's there cheaper than the private companies can do.

It's also nice to live in an area where your mailman will stop and chat for a moment about the Cubs. And you see him in the local diners.

I ship ebay items priority mail and I use their boxes. But if I have unusual items which they don't have boxes for, I go to the dump and get the boxes that are for recycling. So I don't see any problem with reusing boxes you receive. You are recycling them.

@GreatCaesarsGhost: "You're missing the point. USPS buys shipping materials at significant cost and provides them free to those who agree to use them only for their service."

I go into my nearby USPS office. I pick up a Priority or Express shipping box. I walk out.

Where in there, precisely, is the *agreement* of which you speak?

@MrGutts: "When will they just let them die. The government needs to stop bailing USPS out and let the private sector take over."

The USPS doesn't get bailed out; it pays its own way. Perhaps you're thinking of Amtrak.

I sent my own story like this to the Consumerist about 2 months ago and they didn't do anything with it...

I had sent a package to a buyer and he was charged an extra 10 cents by the delivery person because it was a Priority Mail box inside out. So the extra 10 cents was for how much it would have cost via Priority Mail, even though it wasn't sent in that way.

The title of my email/story was "USPS DRMs it's boxes"
Way to go CONGLOMORIST....

@oncewascool:

Speak for thyself, I don't want to have to drive to town to get my mail.

Priority Mail boxes can be reused, if you ship something with Priority Mail again, and you don't turn the box inside out. I've done this several times and the Post Office has never said a word. Also, be careful to not try and ship something via Priority Mail with a Flat Rate box, or vice versa. They don't like that, and they'll either charge you or the recipient to cover the extra cost, if any.

@Landru:

You know what I do regarding finding boxes to ship stuff that I sell on eBay? I go and find used boxes (dumpsters in apartment complexes and grocery stores usually have a large supply), let them sit for a few days outside to air out any smell, and then cut the box up and make a "custom" box that fits the item in question, plus a little bit of padding if you want.

There's less risk for the item to get damaged in the mail, and I routinely get comments in feedback and such about how well the item was packaged. So, it works for the customers.

Cheers!

Also, every Priority Mail box says

"Cradle to Cradle Certification is awarded to products that pursue an innovative vision of ecologically-intelligent design that eliminates the concept of waste. This USPS packaging has been certified for its material content recyclability, and manufacturing characteristics.

Please recycle"

" Given the unholy volume of junk mail with which the USPS turns a profit..."

Actually that pre-sorted junk mail helps subsidize your hard-to-sort handwritten 1st class letter.