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Seller Gets Scammed On Ebay, PayPal Won't Help

con_ebaysellerstabsyouintheback158.jpgMatt just got his first taste of Ebay, and it wasn't good—as soon as he mailed off the Best Buy gift card to the buyer, the buyer reversed payment on Matt's PayPal account and stopped communicating with him. We're pretty sure he's screwed on this one, but does anyone have any good advice for what he can do next?

I was just scammed from selling a 100$ valued best buy gift card selling it on ebay for 96$. I wanted to get an mp3 player but not from best buy because they have no selection of mp3 players greater than 20 gb at all.
 
Everything looked fine because someone bought this gift card and "supposedly" sent me the money. It was shown i had 96$ on april 3 in my paypal account, so of course i did the "right" thing and sent my card to the unfortunate fraudulent buyer.
 
Then the same day after I say i sent the package, the money gets somehow reversed. I get this notification from paypal that i might have been dealing with fraud. They notified the man and even received confirmation via email. Paypal finally gets back to me on April 22nd just saying that I did not have seller protection so they will not refund me in any sort of way.
 
I have his address, phone number and e-mail, but I do not know what to do. He has not responded to my emails though.
 
I need some advice in dealing with this besides any more pointless responses from paypal. Where is the justice? What can I do to get my money back if possible since paypal will not help or refund me? Why should only certain sellers get seller protection but not others? I would like to sell more stuff on ebay but after this risky transition I'm not so sure if I still want to. Thank you.
 
Matt

8:11 PM on Fri Apr 25 2008
By Chris Walters
18,473 views
142 comments

Comments

  • Is there ANY chance at all you have the number from the back of the card? I wonder if you can report it stolen so that Best Buy can zero it out.

  • This is *exactly* what happened to me in December. I was shit out of luck. by the time paypal emailed me and told me the transaction had been reversed, the guy had already used the gift card. Paypal was absolutely 0 help and so was ebay. Now I have the lovely option of trying to take this guy to Small Claims court (for yep, $95).

  • Maybe the fact that someone was willing to pay $96 for a $100 gift card should have been an indication that something wasn't quite right?

    Just saying...

  • I feel your pain buddy. There's a reason I nominated EBay/PayPal for Worst Company in America.

  • LOL funny thing... this happened to me but the complete opposite. I sent my payment, seller sent me the wrong stuff, I sent the stuff back, didn't get a refund for 2 weeks so I filed a chargeback. Now Paypal locked my account and says I have to send them a check if I want them to reinstate the account.

    Screw Paypal/EBay.

  • "They notified the man and even received confirmation via email."

    What kind of confirmation did they receive from the man? "Yep, I scammed him. Har har!!" ...?

    I second the first suggestion: See if you can get the gift card voided..

    For the record, the names are capitalized "eBay" and "PayPal".

    I love how both websites make money by taking a cut of all your transactions, but provides no help to you when the transactions go south.

    Lastly, thanks for not titling the post in the "YOU Get Scammed On eBay, PayPal Won't Help YOU" style.

  • Image of mgy mgy at 08:37 PM on 04/25/08 *

    Or, if you have the number, spend it quickly.

  • Exact same thing happened to me, except my transaction for $400 was reversed three weeks later.

  • If he voids the card, he'll still be out the $95, he'll just have the satisfaction that the scammer didn't get anything out of it.

  • You have his physical address, right? There's a lot you can do with that. Quite a lot.

  • If he can get a hold of Best Buy and have them reissue the card...

    Let's not make this into a eBay bashing. It's a great place to get hard to find items and stuff at much lower than retail price.

    I am an Ebay Powerseller, consignment store and I VERY rarely have problems.

  • This happens to us on a pretty much daily basis. It's frustrating, aggravating, and ups my blood pressure if I think too much about it - I'm surprised it took consumerist this long to post something on it.

    There's virtually nothing you can do, except leaving negative feedback - and you've only got a short time to do that.

  • Ebay has become worthless. I no longer buy or sell on there due to all the scams.

  • Best advice I can give for selling gift cards is to take down all the info on the card. If something like this happens you can quickly claim/redeem the GC before the scammer. Sure you might have to buy something you don't really want but better to get something than nothing.

  • This is why I don't like to offer PayPal on my auctions. In my experience they do NOT offer protection. They claim to offer protection but it is illusory.

  • This is effectively just like a bounced check scenario, and you should proceed accordingly. While a fraud report with the cops if they will take it, and then take him to small claims court. You have his physical address.

    You can also dispute the charge back with PayPal. The discrepancy between the payment reversal and the ship date should lend credence to your side. And even if it doesn't, his account is likely frozen while the dispute is investigated.

  • In Soviet Russia, eBay scams you!...oh wait...

  • @mr. dandy having been through a scammy ebay buyer with a fake address, there's not a whole heckuva lot you could do with it. They will give you an address, then stake it out for the mail and leave their mess to the real owners.

    Good luck. Write it off and take it as a life lesson.

    Oh, and definitely file a police report.

  • Um, hate to sound obvious, but call the cops. This is a big deal to police departments these days and if you know where he lives, call the precinct in his area. See what they say.

  • Ebay and Paypal are just huge scams nowadays. My brother sold some stuff on Paypal, the guy did a chargeback. Luckily the goods he sells are electronic so he just revoked the guy's access to our services, however, my brother's Paypal seller account is permanently in limbo because he is supposed to submit proof of shipping when we have told them 100x that it was not a physical item. Nothing was done to the scammer, although we did make a nasty call to his parents (I believe he was either a minor or still lived with his parents as his father answered the phone).

    I wouldn't do business with Ebay/Paypal anymore because their policies are just so scammer friendly.

  • @jadenton:

    Unless you sent the card via registered mail, you don't really have proof according to paypal, and they will freeze your account while they investigate his. Guess how long it will take? Pretty much forever as they hardly ever resolve any of these. So you can look forward to having to create a new Paypal account because this one will be perma-locked.

  • Conspiracy Theory: Paypal also told the buyer that he had engaged in fraudulent behavior and, instead of refunding his money, just kept the 96 dollars for themselves. I'll bet they do that every time. How else can they always seem to screw over both the buyer and seller?

  • If I had the persons address I would take a trip to his house, I think the extra money to spend on going out there is well worth it to me at least...

  • How can someone even begin to defend eBay on this? They have basically created this little ecosystem around PayPal where you are easily screwed if you use other services (or flat out prohibited from using them). When you use PayPal you have to dance a very fine line to stay protected, and even then there are plenty of ways you can get scammed.

    I sell there regularly. I have to be extremely careful to make sure I'm not screwed. People attempt to take advantage of me regularly. I wish Google would compete with them.

  • @Ron Seigel:

    Duh. Who in Hades pays 96 cents on the dollar for a high risk product. For all the buyer may know the seller is scamming the buyer.

  • Welcome to eBay. Please lube up before bending over.

  • Just for clarification, seller protection is only offered if your account is verified and the delivery address you're shipping to is confirmed.

  • How does a buyer reverse a PayPal payment that they sent? I've always been under the impression that only the receiver of a payment can reverse the payment.

  • Use Craigslist next time so you can conduct the transaction in person with cash.

  • PayPal is the WORST. About $750 went missing from my checking account last year and PayPal did NOTHING. I closed my account. Fuck them.

  • Not to sound like a jerk but it is Matt's own fault for not reading how to cover himself. I have been selling on ebay for about 4 years and have never once been ripped off. As long as he followed normal protocol, he will be ok. Only ship to a confirmed address when you will be covered by ebay and Paypal says you will be covered by their seller protection policy. I never ship unless I will be covered by this policy. I may have missed where this guy lives but if the buyer does not live in the same state as the seller, it is not worth pursuing. Lesson learned, follow ebay's policy next time. I had been in this scenario before but because I followed their policy, a few days later, Paypal gave the money back to me and they ate it or took it back from the buyer.

  • @ShortBus: Or next time you could trade using Craigslist and...ummmm...nevermind.

  • Don't use Craig's list like other people are saying. You are asking to be stabbed or shot!

  • @mr.dandy: Chances are it is an empty lot or an empty house. Same exact thing happened to me with a Wii I sold on eBay. Paypal didn't care and I was out $250.00. Best thing he can do is contact the shipping company and tell them not to deliver the package and explain what happened. If it was already delivered then he's pretty much SOL unless Best Buy can track the card or cancel and transfer it to another account.

  • At least file a complaint against the buyer with eBay. It probably won't amount to much now, but eventually they'll close his account. Then he'll open a new one. Sigh.

  • I think the best protection is to skip PayPal. Specify that you only accept check or money order and that items ship when payment clears.

  • Image of homerjay homerjay at 10:30 PM on 04/25/08 *

    I do believe this constitutes mail fraud and since you have a name and address you should get the Postmaster General involved. As any Seinfeld fanatic will tell you- a Postmaster General is a postmaster first but is also a general, and the job of a general is to by God get things done!

    Here's where you file your complaint:
    [postalinspectors.uspis.gov]

    That being said- For future reference ONLY ship to paypal confirmed addresses. Put that in your auctions. The main reason people don't qualify for seller protection is because they ship to non-confirmed addresses.
    I've had the SPP kick in for me once and not kick in for me another time. They WILL help you but only if you qualify.

  • Oh and another thing, if you're going to sell something for less than face value, never underestimate the power of standing in front of your neighborhood store and offer to sell it to people going in. You can always confirm the value at the customer service desk inside, and ask for cash on the spot. Just a suggestion, 'cause I'd never heard of selling gift cards on E-Bay and that's probably the first thing I'd try.

  • Image of Buran Buran at 10:40 PM on 04/25/08 *

    @se7a7n7: Really. Maybe 10 years ago you could get deals...

  • Image of Buran Buran at 10:41 PM on 04/25/08 *

    They don't give a shit. Even when mail fraud is involved. My tale of woe from Paypal:

    Fastmac.com won't refund cancelled order

  • Although there are plenty of horror stories regarding PayPal, I did have a major issue decided in my favor a few years ago.

    I sold $2,000 worth of movie equipment to one person and shipped it in two parts -- a well-packed box and a well-taped and cable-tied padded Pelican case. Both were insured, as paid for by the buyer.

    The buyer claimed damage and missing items, but wasn't willing to file an insurance claim, so although my PayPal account was temporarily suspended (I think), they eventually sided with me.

    That being said, I'm very careful now anyway, regardless of how I pay.

  • How about....don't take PayPal?

  • Hmm. I've been using eBay for 11 (yes, 11) years now, and have yet to be scammed. PayPal and eBay are pretty clear on their seller protection policy, and I'd never use eBay for a transaction like this, since you have zero recourse if there is a problem.

    However, unless the guy lives in a one stoplight town, if folks here think the police will get invovled via an out-of-jurisdiction complainant for a lousy hundred bucks, you're smoking something.

    The only thing you can possibly do is go down to the police station in the recipient's area in person, and file a complaint directly in person.

    Unless it's right next door and/or justice and vengeance is worth a whole lot more to you than your $100, I'd consider it a relatively reasonably-priced lesson.

    You could always try USPS Form 1509, sender's application for recall of mail - but I'm guessing it's already too late.

  • @gregmick: Um... ok? I live in Detroit and I still use Craigslist all the time: found my last two jobs, bought a mini fridge and a motorcycle, sold some extra computer junk, found someone to help me move, etc. It's probably the most useful site on the web.

  • Here are a few tips I picked out along the way:
    1. Don't EVER rely on eBay/Paypal for help.
    2. Never buy anything using your checking account for payment. Use your credit card, so you can dispute it.
    3. When selling, never give eBay a normal credit card number. With Citi Bank, for example, you can generate virtual credit cards that are only good for one month and for one transaction.
    4. Again, if you are selling, don't accept payment through Paypal. Instead use Google Checkout. I trust Google far more than I trust eBay.

  • I've had Paypal help me out once, and fail me once. Thankfully it was only like $20 they failed to help me on.
    Recently I got scammed again. Bought item, never received it. But with moving at the time, I'd forgotten about it for a couple months, and figured it was far too late to do anything.

  • POST THE SCAMMER'S ADDRESS HERE!
    Sometimes that's the only way to get justice. Remember the story "How not to steal someone's Sidekick? www.evanwashere.com/StolenSidekick/


  • @homerjay:

    Unfortunately, in my experience, postal inspectors are worthless. I won an eBay auction for a used UPS, and because the seller had "had problems with PayPal," requested that payment be made using a money order. I bought a postal money order and sent it in, then ever received any item or replies to my emails. I filed a complaint with the postal inspectors, got a postcard saying they'd received it, and then never heard anything from them again.

    USPS sucks, UPS sucks, and now FedEx sucks -- I just received an obviously damaged package today from them. What's the world coming to?

  • If you are ever diagnosed with a terminal illness, when you are on the verge of dying and you have lived it up, go to where he lives and set him on fire. That would be satisfyin'. That's about all the advice I can give.

    /You might throw in a bit of ass rape for good measure.

  • post his info on digg and let the internet deal out the justice

  • if you have a receipt for the gift card, or paid for it in some traceable way, you can go to Best Buy and they can cancel it and transfer the balance to another gift card.

  • If you have his phone number and address call his local police department.

  • You might as well give up fighting with Paypal, they are soulless bastards who are not worth your time. Ebay and Paypal have gotten more scummy as time has progressed, that's why I don't sell there anymore.

  • paypalsucks.com
    Sellers really get the short end of the stick with paypal. You should've withdrawn the money as soon as it reached your paypal account.

  • This is a failed business transaction and a civil complaint. No police department will entertain this complaint. Your recourse is in the civil arena (AKA small claims court).

  • @rubberkeyhole: ya he could claim that it was stolen.

  • welcome to ebay

  • Paypal does not back up the seller in most of their transactions, dude is pretty much f'd.

  • Some websites can find the address of the fraudulent bidder with his phone number. Maybe he has a different address on file for the phone number he gave you. I've used one in the past called Phone Search Central to help find where someone who scammed me on ebay lived with just their phone number. The police went to the person's actual home and told the lady she had to send me the product she never sent me. She didn't ever send it, but I guess the scare made her reverse my paypal payment, because she did it the next day and apologized about a "misunderstanding." Maybe they can help you.

  • Image of Buran Buran at 12:23 AM on 04/26/08 *

    @XianZhuXuande: They do. You can't use Google Checkout on ebay.

    How convenient.

  • Post the scammer's details online so I may find him, slap him with my white glove and challenge him to a duel.

    I LOATHE scammers. I'm usually for human rights and all but these people deserve to be waterboarded...