Where's Amazon's Fine? or eBay's Fine?

At least Circuit City has Pamphlets for consumers.

So, Best Buy was disappointed because they got fined for breaking the law despite a "good faith effort," eh? "Gee, officer, I'm disappointed you're arresting me. I made a good faith effort NOT to kill him." Yeah, I know, it's more extreme. But it's a lame excuse.

"Sears, Best Buy, And Wal-Mart Fined For Not Warning Consumers About Analog TVs"? Hmmm....

The top three fines went to Sears, Wal-Mart, Circuit City, respectively. Best Buy is lumped with a bunch of other retailers.

I'm not sure I want to ask about the justification for booting Circuit City to give Best Buy second billing.

Seriously, there's no bias here. None at all.

Wait, so putting next to the info tag of every analog TV "CONSUMER ALERT-THIS TV ONLY INCLUDES AN ANALOG TUNER AND WILL REQUIRE A TUNER BOX AFTER FEB. 29, 2009 PLEASE SEE AN ASSOCIATE FOR MORE DETAILS" along with the same warning being on every box of analog only TVs is not warning the customers?

This is also on the news at least once a week not to mention Comcast's endless commercial parade about the switch.

@ceilingfanboy: No, a violation occured when that warning wasn't present. Each violation was worth $8,000. A lot of them are VCR/DVD players (whoops!). Here's the full forfeiture list, for the numerically curious:

DTV Labeling NALs $3,928,000
Sears, Roebuck, K-Mart $1,096,000
Wal-Mart Stores/Sam's West $992,000
Circuit City Stores $712,000
Fry's Electronics $384,000
Target Corporation $296,000
Best Buy Co. Inc. $280,000
CompUSA, Inc. $168,000

DTV Tuner Actions $1,624,000
Syntax-Brillian $1,266.100
Precor Inc. $357,900

DTV V-Chip NALs $1,075,000
Polaroid Corporation $775,000
Proview Technology, Inc. $300,000

At least the FTC is taking the transition seriously.

FCC Adopts DTV Enforcement Orders Totaling Over $6 Million (PDF) [FTC]

I had read on Engadget a while back that Best Buy was pulling all its analog sets in an effort to avoid being fined.

While BB is notoriously terrible with its treatment of customers, I'm curious as to what else the government expected them to do?

[www.engadget.com]

Last year I kept hearing that analog TVs weren't supposed to be sold after (I think it was) March of 2007, except current stock. A friend and I were each shopping for new TVs then, and we saw that WM, Sam's Club, Target, BB, Fry's and other retailers continued to sell and stock analog TVs at least through Christmas last year. The tags usually didn't tell you what tuner the TV had--if you were lucky, it would say something silly like "DTV Ready!" One TV I looked at in Target didn't tell you on the tag, the TV, or on the box what the tuner was. It seemed deliberate.

I'm not a big fan of Best Buy, but if they really did pull non-digital sets from their shelves (which appeared to be the case last time I was in there) then why did they get fined? It's not their job to inform consumers about products they don't sell.

@strife1012: I don't know about ebay, but Amazon has been pretty good about putting a warning below the description of offending products.

Amazon and ebay didn't get hit because.... Those are private resales of tvs, not retailers selling new ones.

@strife1012: Why would eBay get a fine? They don't sell TVs. It's the people that sell on eBay that do. If they want to fine each individual seller listing a TV, that's up to them.

bought a TV at target 6 months ago, and they had no analog TVs

I understand that there are laws (?) in place here, but does anybody NOT know about the digital switch? The PSAs talking about this get more airtime than the shows around here. One of the local stations runs a warning ticker about it every hour (complete with beeping), even if it covers up another warning ticker about tornado warnings.

And the changeover is still ten months away!!!

@Michael Belisle: At least all the Wal-Marts around here had a sign on everything. DVD recorders, VCRs, DVRs, TVs... anything that would have needed it.

They still make analog TVs?

@TruPhan:

I wouldn't be surprised if Kmart still has sets on their shelves with manual knobs and free rabbit ears in the box.

This really is a stupid law to begin with. It should be the consumer's job to do research before buying a product if they are smart. Also you would have to be an idiot to not see several of the thousands of commercials played daily on TV and the radio to NOT know about the analog cutoff.

My friend's and my experience shopping for new TVs last year was very different that what many are reporting. My friend, nearly 60 years old, didn't understand what the switch to DTV was all about. It's quite complicated. There's analog and digital and QAM tuners, tuner boxes and cable boxes and figuring out what's built-in and what's not. There are also screen-aspect ratios, and 720p vs 1080p vs 1080i, LCD vs plasma. Oh--and then there are the cables. There weren't any digital tuner boxes available @ retail last year (only online). Complicating things even more, Dallas, where my friend lives, has some sort of subscription over-the-air digital TV service with its own set-top box, called USDTV.

All last summer & fall and into Xmas, stores were selling analog-only TVs, getting them in new, and they weren't labeling them as being analog. Usually they had no specs available, or they were dishonestly labeled "DTV Ready," which meant, yeah, you can have DTV if you plug a tuner box into the TV, a TV that did not have a digital tuner. At a Best Buy location in the Midwest last July, all their LCD TVs under 32" were analog-only. When I asked a sales person why they were selling these past the deadline, he said they were "current stock." When I mentioned I hadn't seen 2 models just a week before, he walked away. The deadline to start selling digitally-tuned TVs was March 1 of 2007, according to this Engadget article. [www.engadget.com]

In Dallas, Wal-Mart, Target and Sam's Club were still selling analog-only TVs through the holiday shopping season. The display TVs were routinely unlabeled; and in some cases, the boxes also lacked tuner specs. There were lots of shenanigans going on with these TVs all last year, so I welcome our fine-y FCC overlords.

@Blinker: The reason why consumer protection laws exist is because retailers and service providers are known to lie, cheat and steal--that is, to make deliberate attempts at deceiving people. It is not to compensate for what you think is a deplorable lack of applied intelligence on the part of consumers. I suggest for the next 15 years, until you're 35 or 40 or so, you stay away from consumer-protection blogs, and stick with Ron Paul fanblogs and chewing the libertarian cud. How's that gold standard coming along anyway? My mortgage is fail! Gold is shiny!

@karmaghost: When has the government ever let reason get in the way of regulations?

Speaking of that, where are these converter boxes they've been talking about? The government's advertised coupons for them, but I have yet to see one available. We have five on-air digital stations in my town already. Are they forcing everyone to buy a new TV? I guess that's what the Bush economic incentive money is really for - buying a new digital TV while you live out of a cardboard box.

I just went to walmart the other day and it had a little timer by the TV's that counted down the days until a digital converter box would be needed. I think this should be considered warning... Don't you think?

Uh? In bestbuy I see a promo running all the time talking about "The Switch to Digital".

The public as a whole does not understand the DTV change. I believe that is the fault of the government. They should be sending out pamphlets or some other ways to give the people clean info. Best Buy has made the most progress in this movement and their fine doesn't make much sense to me.

The whole thing seems silly to me, given how few people actually use over-the-air antennas.

But the one that really strikes me as stupid is that they fined Precor - the company that makes ellipticals for gyms - because one of their ellipticals had an integrated TV with a TV that didn't have a digital tuner. Nevermind that a gym would hook it up to cable, and that it's not normally sold directly to consumers.

@strife1012: These fines are probably based on individual violations, rather than a blanket one. That is, at Kmarts that were inspected, lots of individual TVs or other analog devices were found unmarked and each one had a small fine associated with it that led to the huge total. Best Buy had fewer individual fines so they get charged less. They may have tried to remove all the analog TVs from their stores, but you know there's got to be a few sitting around without signs.

Salesman: I see your looking at TV's, any questions I can answer for you?

ChuckECheese: Get away opressive pushy salesman!! You should know as an old person I don't need help, I can find the cheapest thing that will sort-of do what I need all by myself. And I certainly would not accept your advice even if it were handed to me by John McCain himself!!

Salesman: Umm, ok but that analog tv wont work after next year.

ChuckECheese: I said die! Before I sick my AARP friends on you!

***CUT TO 18 MONTHS LATER***

ChuckECheese: Dear Consumerist/FCC,

Those facists at my local Electronics Retailer didn't tell me that the reason the grossly underpriced TV I bought, was grossly underpriced because it's obsolete. Anything I buy from the clearance shelf should last me at least 20 years, just like my reel-to-reel and quadrophonic system. I think you should write an article/fine them.

K, THX

@karmaghost: The problem is that although stores were told by higher-ups to stop selling analog TVs, I'm sure there were some screwups somewhere... That, or as someone else mentioned there might have been labels missing.

@eelmonger: Exactly.

@ceilingfanboy:

Hell, my local Walmart had them on everything. Even home theatre systems. If it even sat next to a TV they had a warning on it.

@blueboxer: Quite likely I guess, especially when you consider the whole Wal-Mart Nazi T-shirt debacle. I'm wondering, though, if some of the allegations are based on reports from consumers; doesn't the FCC get "tips" and complaints from citizens? You will find non-HD and non-EDTV CRT TVs (phew) in Best Buy, but they are actually digital. Maybe "digital" to some people means LCD/Plasma.

@scoopjones: I saw a huge stack of converter boxes when I was in Best Buy last week. There must have been at least two dozen.

@Extended-Warranty: You are correct. Many of the people on this thread don't get it either. According to FCC rules, no analog-only TVs should have been sold since 1 March of LAST YEAR. The TVs I saw for sale last summer/fall/winter weren't accidents or leftovers--they were shelves full of unmarked analog TVs (most of them LCDs, some plasma, some CRT) in boxes that did not identify them as analog TVs. These were deliberate attempts at tricking people into buying analog TVs.

The new TV technologies are complicated, very different than what went before. If you have spent the past 50 years watching a TV with an antenna or maybe a cable box, this is a whole new world. If only Ronald Reagan were still around to explain it--then we'd get it--lulz.

@bigdtbone: Um, well, I'm not as old as my friend. And my post shows I'm pretty hip to the groove with DTV. I wanted a 30" or smaller TV, yes, but not necessarily a cheap one. Last year you couldn't find a small LCD TV with a digital tuner. The first one I saw was in July, at Fry's, a 19" Samsung, for about $400. It's a great little TV. BTW, I did narc to the feds on their DTV website when I found that all the retailers in my city were still selling analog-only TVs 3 months after the deadline. The peculiar thing about your post is that you're saying the opposite of what I did--I was the one who wanted a DTV, and the salespeople were trying to sell me analog TVs, while claiming they were "digital ready," (after I bought a digital receiver box.)

@ChuckECheese:

"Many of the people on this thread don't get it either. According to FCC rules, no analog-only TVs should have been sold since 1 March of LAST YEAR."

ChuckECheese, This statement is not correct.

The FCC only said TV's being imported into the US or shipped via interstate commerce from that date on were required to have a digital tuner. Otherwise, they were required to disclose they were analog-only TVs.

Here is the quote from the FCC website: "As of March 1, 2007, all television receivers shipped in interstate commerce or imported into the United States must contain a digital tuner. In addition, effective May 25, 2007, the Commission required sellers of television receiving equipment that does not include a digital tuner to disclose at the point-of-sale that such devices include only an analog tuner, and therefore will require a digital-to-analog converter box to receive over-the-air broadcast television after the transition date."

This means any and all analog TV's that may still be in warehouses or distribution centers, theoretically, could still be sold within that warehouses home state well past the March 1st deadline. It's likely retailers will continue to sell those TV's (probably for a while) in those states until their stock runs out as they may not be able to transport them to stores located outside of that state.

As far as you complaining about sales people who say your TV is "Digial ReadY" well, i'm sure there is some technical truth to that.

The FCC has an opinion on it: "If your television set is labeled as a "Digital Monitor" or "HDTV Monitor," or as "Digital Ready" or "HDTV Ready," this does not mean it actually contains a digital tuner. Thus, you still will likely need a separate set-top box which contains a tuner in order to view programs in the new digital TV transmission standard (which includes HDTV formats) on such a set. "

Also to claims that stores may not be informing consumers, we all know MANY consumers don't READ at all. If you don't want to take my word for it, go to an Electronics store and just watch people. Yes, watch the customers and see how many of them ask the sales people questions that can be answered just by reading the box of a product. You'll be surprised to see how many times the employee just looks at the box. These people aren't technology experts, and you can't expect Best Buy to hire anyone like that for $7.00 an hour.

FCC also says: "If your television set is labeled as "analog" or "NTSC," but is NOT labeled as containing a digital tuner, it contains an analog tuner only."

I see that "NTSC" all the time, and it wasn't until this post that I was informed it was an analog signal. I always thought it was the North American standard for media like NTSC, PAL, and SECAM, that you would see on DVD's which tell you if you can play a foreign DVD on your American DVD player.

So I would have never known that TV that says "NTSC" at Best Buy or anywhere else would have meant "Analog" I would have just assumed it meant North American.

While yes, retailers are required to have text posted next to their TVs, American consumers need to take some responsibility as well. They need to educate themselves of the coming format, especially when it's getting so much media attention.

@idip:

Reply to my own comment, here is the link to the FCC webpage I got those quotes from.

[www.fcc.gov]

@TruPhan: No, but I'm sure there is a backlog of them the stores would just love to not have to send to the junkyard.

does anyone know any sort of figure showing how many people as of right now would be SOL if the digital switch happened?

Having known about this for a long time, I get the feeling it's a very low number and that we're making such a huge deal over something that will affect a tiny fraction of a percentage of the population.

@idip:
NTSC means the National Television System Committee which released the TV standard in 1940 & then the color standard in 1953. That's to be abandoned next year in the US & in 2011 in Canada & 2022 in Mexico.
And that's probably why we're seeing so many analog TVs for sale. They aren't coming from warehouses in the US, they're coming from ships & supposedly going to Canada & Mexico.
Bullshit! They're coming here.

As for the FCC fining CompUSA, that's a good one, it's out of business!

Which is indicative of the FCCs incompetence in this entire switchover.

@ChuckECheese: Sorry Chuck, I was actually replying to this comment:

"The reason why consumer protection laws exist is because retailers and service providers are known to lie, cheat and steal--that is, to make deliberate attempts at deceiving people. It is not to compensate for what you think is a deplorable lack of applied intelligence on the part of consumers. I suggest for the next 15 years, until you're 35 or 40 or so, you stay away from consumer-protection blogs, and stick with Ron Paul fanblogs and chewing the libertarian cud. How's that gold standard coming along anyway? My mortgage is fail! Gold is shiny!"

I should have pointed that out before, makes the (bad) satire I little more obvious. Didn't mean to offend.

I find this to be quite surprising. I can't really believe that Best Buy or other retailers would miss a chance to upsell consumers on more expensive hardware.

One more point: yes, many people know about the switch now, but again, the actions that caused these fines were done months ago before the recent DTV media campaign began. I would not be so quick to blame the consumer on this one...