This may be a stupid question, but I'm unclear: did she go into the dealership planning on buying a car, or was her trip to the dealership a result of her dementia?

@loquaciousmusic: i know. there's definately more to this story, but the dealership is still a piece of sh*t.

Regardless if she wanted a car or not, the dealership has a responsibility to not set people up for failure.

I hope the salesman was fired over this.

I think its time for this woman to claim bankruptcy. Social security payments are excempt from creditors. If the woman has nothing and has a lot of unsecured debt then she really needs to file for bankruptcy to get ride of all of it.

The OP needs to contact the various chicago TV news networks. If one of them covers this story then the ball can get rolling into what fraud took place to get this woman a car.

definitely not a valid contract. Speak to a lawyer, I am sure someone would pick it up as Pro-Bono work. Either that, or call up your local news station, they are usually good with that stuff

I'm assuming that Sandra has had a steward appointed by a court no doubt. In that case the contract was invalid. If you're declared incompetent by a court you can't enter into any contract without someone with power of attorney also signing off on it.

@loquaciousmusic: I'm willing to bet dementia. My grandmother has it, and it causes her to do things she normally knows are wrong or things she normally wouldn't do. There's no way that contract is valid.

@snoop-blog: There has to be more.

If she bought it new in '07, it sounds like she made "some payments", so there may be the case where the contract was made in some form of a legitimate fashion.

If she has demitia, is there a Power of Attorney? That is the person that needs to contact the companies in question. If no POA, getting any info forthcoming will be a violation of Privacy Laws, and it may take court-orders to get the info at that point.

For all of the petting complaining the Consumerist does, THIS is where the site really shines. Giving concise and helpful information to someone in real need, while at the same time informing the masses of how to look out for and handle this in a similar situation.

As for the case at hand, I can't see how they could sell a car to someone without a valid license. By law, you can't buy a car, get it registered and drive it off the lot without valid insurance (which you can't get without a license.)

She was probably attracted to the dealership by the happy flags and colorfull balloons attached to the cars...So pretty, so pretty!!!

If she has medical records of dementia surely a lawyer could proove she isn't responsible for the contract. I also love the part about no license- then who insured the car upon GMAC giving the loan? Did she even drive the car off the lot before it was repossessed? Did she even drive the car at all? If she was allowed to drive the car who allowed her?- maybe you can to file a police report against the dealership for failing to verify license/insurance along with the scam.

Get a detective involved with this as it seems to be a blatant scam against an eldery person- no different from a Nigerian 419 scam or a bait and switch on the street.

What a bunch of scumbags.
Here's the owner of the dealership: Caroline Grossinger
[www.grossingergmc.com]

She usually keeps a pair of cackling crows hanging in those ear hoops.

@NoWin: Doesn't say bought new in 2007, but bought a new 2007. Not that many people would buy an 07 new now, but they probably saw her as a chance to get rid of one that never sold and is now not the latest and greatest. Also, even if she bought in December 07, never made a payment, going through the process of repossession, sale at auction, and dealership attempting to get the $8000 could easily take this long.

Call up a local TV station / newspaper on this one. Most car dealerships don't like to see their faces on the 6pm news, despite plastering the channel for the remaining 23 hrs/day.

@savvy9999: I'd hit it....with a tire iron.

As an ex-car salesman, WTF!? How the hell did they do the DMV paperwork with no valid license??? The dealer is definitely at fault here; I bet the F&I manager "bundled" this loan with a bunch of good loans and forced GMAC to take it to get the rest (that's how we used to get people with terrible credit approved for too much car for too long).

Sounds somewhat familiar.

My poor grandmother, getting about $1100/month from SS, was scammed into buying a car by (and for) my scumbag con artist mother with collusion with a Hyundai dealership. They had her income as something like $3700 per month, with the total note ending up at ~$42000. Dear old mother apparently forged the grandmother's signature on all the docs but one, which my grandmother was convinced was just to attest to her daughter's signature. The cops can't or won't do anything because the sales manager of the dealership backs the salesman's account. Now the car's been repossessed and they're after my grandmother for the balance of the note. Thankfully, she's got nothing since we've had her put the house in my uncle's name and given him power of attorney; we've just got to convince her not to pay the collectors that are calling and writing.

WTF is wrong with people?

This story makes me want to vomit. My grandfather has Alzheimer's, and the thought of some unscrupulous company taking advantage of that is just sick, sick, sick. I wish the letter writer the best of luck in publicizing this story as much as possible.

Also - I'd bet there is some pretty hinky paperwork that went along with that loan. Probably pretty false, actually...

I live in Chicago, and I've heard a LOT of bad things about Grossinger. I stay the hell away from there, and advise others to do the same.

I work for an auto dealership as the IT Director, and I am not here to defend nor condem what the dealership in question did. I am sure there is more to the story than what is posted here, but the bottom line is, ANYONE can get financed for a vehicle, but if your credit sucks, you won't like the terms. She probably was offered a very high interest rate because of her poor credit, and if she is elderly, especially with demensia and recovering from strokes, she probably didn't read and/or understand the paperwork. You sign a ton of documents and those who work for successful dealerships are experts at getting you through signing them quickly and effectively. If she was that disabled, how did she get to the dealership? Why wasn't someone watching her? Who manages her finances if she isn't able to make those decisions herself? Someone has to be responsible for her somewhere. At our dealership, we see people from all walks of life, including elderly folks who are in their right mind and make solid purchasing decisions. How was the dealership to know of her health conditions? No one wears a sign that says, "Hey, I have dementia, watch out for my best interests, please". My wife works with the elderly and there are some who can and some who can't manage after strokes. The majority of those who cannot cope are in assisted living or live with family who can take care of them. The elderly woman in question sounds like the small minority who have no one to turn to. One thing the dealership did do wrongly is not work with the elderly woman's volunteer helper. We are a family run dealership with strong principals and a commitment to people, both employees and customers. I have heard and seen many ridiculous requests, but we try to satisfy each and every complaint. Ignoring them does absolutley no good. I hope that they get things resolved, because there are so many bad stories about car dealerships, and so few positive stories from people who find good service from car dealerships like ours.

@loquaciousmusic: Having worked professionally with people with dementia, well, they do strange things. Like they get ideas about wanting to do something, and they obsess over it (called perseveration). One of the things that bums out seniors the most is not being able to drive. Obsessions about driving are common among demented seniors. If they have access to a car, you almost always have to lock it and hide the keys to keep them from driving off. So it's not out of the question that this woman managed to show up at a dealership to buy a car. And the salesman scammed her, knowing it was an easy sale.

Many of you will ask various versions of "Why didn't she...?" and "Why didn't they...?" Here are your answers: 1. She's demented and crazy. She's not normal, and doesn't behave normally. 2. She doesn't have 24/7 monitoring if she's living in public housing, meaning she can get away and do crazy stuff. 3. There's a gray area between the legalities of having a POA and the fact that many agencies will permit people in the helping professions to get involved if there is a clear need. 4. Many people who would benefit from some sort of guardianship don't have it--it is expensive and difficult to obtain, time-consuming for the guardians, and frequently the client refuses it. Keep in mind that guardianship and fiduciary POAs are different from a simple living will. 5. Social services in this country are severely underfunded, and there aren't enough people, services or resources to go around. Usually nothing is done until there is some sort of life-or-death crisis, e.g., the woman in the example above sets her public housing unit on fire. At that point she will likely be placed in a nursing home.

The letter does not say she bought a car in 2007; it says she bought a 2007 model. There are record numbers of unsold cars on lots these days, and one of my local dealerships has advertised new 2007s for sale in the past couple months.

It appears that as businesses get more desperate, some of them will resort to shockingly dirty means to make a sale. We will all have to be more careful. Contacting the AG is the best thing to do in this situation. The worker could contact the dealership one more time by letter, explaining the circumstances, telling them she has no choice but to go to the AG unless they drop the matter quickly.

I have an elderly relative who doesn't drive, doesn't have a license, but one day she decided she wanted to buy a new car. Just because? Thankfully she was talked out of it, but we worry about future occurrences.

There has to be something we don't know about this case. You need to provide proof on insurance when buying a car and a valid license. Most banks are pretty stict about documentation. Also, based on the housing market, GMAC will not be loaning out money to people that weren't eligible considering the mortgage side is taking heavy loses. People will pay house before the car usually. The reason GMAC is not talking to her is probably because of third party diclosure laws. Anyone can call up saying their relative was scammed and the contract should be void.

Ironically, I learned from a Real Estate lawyer (class professor in college) that had the same problem: an elderly woman with dementia bought a car on her own. To have a valid contract the parties must be willing, able, and competent. She was neither able nor competent. He went to the dealership, told 'em the reality and they dropped the demand for payment.

Get a lawyer for a few hundred bucks, and this'll go away.

Too bad we live in a legal system that doesn't protect the innocent and reasonably knowledgeable. We have to get lawyers to do it for us.

@nytmare: Exactly. Keep an eye on her.

Having a license should be a prerequisite to buying a car. Period.
No license, no car.

GM is on my bad side currently, they are known for screwing people over. I purchased a 08 Pontiac in Feb. 3 days later they were offering a extra 1k off. I called/emailed the dealership they didn't care to talk. (they already had my money). Sent a 2 page letter to GM cooperate. No response, sent a follow up letter, finally a call from GM saying to bad we offer promotions all the time. Wait till I fill out the JD power and associates survey.

This is one case where I would condone violence against people/property. This is scumbag low. EECB everyone @ General Motors. Take that dealer license away. Shut that CUNT down!

Who wants to be we see more and more of this during a further downturn in the economy. Dealerships will become more desperate to make a sale, why not screw some old person over for the value while being able to repo it and sell it again?

To be fair to the dealer, if they turned away everyone who appeared to have dementia, they'd never sell a car. They ARE a Pontiac dealer after all.

I already told my son that when the day comes, he shouldn't hesitate for a minute to take control of our finances. If you live long enough, it will happen to you, and that's when the scam artists come out. Bastards.

Don't dealerships make you show a DL before you can even test drive? That right there is a problem...

This would be easier to prevent if everyone who had dementia or similar diseases would wear some sort of marker. Sometimes you can't tell, and nobody wants to waste an hour making a sale that won't count.

PS...does that owner look a little f***** up? Seriously looks like she took a hit of something a few moments before the shutter went click...

@backbroken - thanks, coffee came out of my nose!

Scummy sales people will even go to the jail to try and get financing for a car they sold to a disabled man:
[www.dailycamera.com]

Scummy sales people sell a disabled man a truck for $30k cash and then rip off his life savings:
[seattlepi.nwsource.com]

Scummy dealer sells eldery man 7 cars in 1 year (old but pertainent):
[findarticles.com]

@Eric1285: Yeah, and every guy like you should have a tattoo ''dumbass'' on the face, that way we'll recognize you easily.

What kind of marker, huh? And if a person is demented or has Alzheimer, don't you think they can take off some weird marker?

And the sale should NEVER went through, since the customer does NOT have a valid driver license! It's against the law!

So why punish the sick person for someone else's lack of conscience?

If I were the sales rep, as soon as I'd see that the person acts weird and does not have a driver license, I would gently refer her to the receptionist. At least there is some candy on the table and glossy flyers. And I'll ask to call the family, if it's really a persistant case.

Sounds like she got the Hank Hill special.

neat... they have a contact us section...

@backbroken: As long as the buyer has a valid driver's license and a proof of income, he is a potential buyer.

In this case there is neither.

I'm not sure how I feel about this given so little detail. I mean how the customer is being treated afterwards is sucky but I had a similar experience at my old job at a cell phone shop. A guy about 20 came in wanted a cell phone so we set him up, he paid cash, but his credit was OK. He was a little weird, but so was everyone at that mall. The next day his family comes in yelling at us how we took advantage of his mental disability. The doud wanted a phone, that's all I knew. If I said no based on my judgment of his mental condition (Because I'm a licensed Psychiatrist) the family could have yelled at me for that. If you don't want someone who has a mental disability from doing thing like this then its your responsibility, not the proprietors.

@ptr2void: Sounds kind of like what my uncle and aunt did to my grandmother, except they just took the money right out of her accounts.

@Darkwish: Yep. She/they did that too via a stolen and then forged check which could not be covered. That was the first indication of their despicable behavior. Thankfully she has been a long time customer of the bank and they were understanding, instead going after my mother and her wife. I guess family members are the predominant identity thieves. What a disgrace.

@ptr2void: We didn't find out about it until my mother checked the bank accounts when my grandmother complained she didn't have any money (she was in an assisted living home at the time). We turned my uncle and aunt over to the police and they reached a "settlement" to repay about $17k out of the $350k they stole, but so far they've only repaid about $700 over the past 2 years, so we're going to be turning them in again to try to get jail time. (We'll never see the money again and we know it, but they should still be punished.)

Why was there a sale with no DL? Easy. The scumbag salesman identified an easy mark (demented senior) and pushed the sale through.

Maybe Grossingers is running a prison-to-work transition program with their sales force?

@savvy9999: Amusing writeup of her. Apparently she slept through the Business Ethics course at the U of Chicago MBA??

@backbroken: I think you're confusing dementia with Burt Reynolds mustaches, CB radios and mullets.

@philipbarrett2003: No worries. It's just as good the second time around, assuming you caught it in your cup.

@Darkwish: That sucks. I hope they get what they deserve. Grrr.

@ptr2void: Can you let us know when and where your next family reunion will be? I'd like to attend.

@Darkwish: That really sucks. I sincerely hope they get what they deserve. Grrr...

@backbroken: Heh...my family's too small for a reunion...we could have it in a Renault LeCar.

All good advice from the Consumerist. The OP should follow through because this deal smells. But I wouldn't worry about the little old lady. Based on the financial situation outlined she's judgement-proof. My guess is the lady will never be sued because GMAC won't want this case to be seen by a judge and SSI can't be garnisheed, AFAIK. So I wouldn't worry about the woman's debts - they can't and won't be repaid.

OP - if your organization doesn't have an attorney on staff, try the Chicago Legal Clinic [www.clclaw.org] , the Center for Disability and Elder Law at 312.908.4463, Chicago Volunteer Legal Services at 312.332.1264, or the Legal Clinic at Northwestern [law.niu.edu] .

How sick. Selling to an old lady who doesn't even have a license?! There is a special spot in hell reserved for people who take advantage of the elderly.