Consumerist
Whenever Brian drives his Dodge Charger in the rain, all of the dash lights flash and has trouble restarting his car. He's taken the car to the dealership multiple times, but they say they're never able to recreate the problem. Above are two screencaps of the video he took last time this occurred. He's now taken to writing a letter to Chrysler CEO Big Bob Nardelli, which is most likely a futile effort. You might instead email Cerberus, the company that now owns Chrysler's ass. Maybe the dealership will find it's able to recreate the flashing signals if Brian rides along the next time they test the car. Maybe call the Car Talk radio show. Inside, a video of this bizzare phenom in action, and his letter to the CEO.
March 13, 2008
Robert Nardelli
Chrysler LLC
1000 Chrysler Drive
Auburn Hills, MI 48326-2766
Dear Mr. Nardelli:
Thank you for taking the time to read my letter. I am writing about a serious and very dangerous condition that exists with my 2006 Dodge Charger. My name is Brian. I own a 2006 Dodge Charger that I purchased new at Danbury Dodge in Danbury CT on February 18, 2006. The current mileage of the car is 37200 miles. I am writing to bring a serious trouble with my Charger to your attention. While driving the Charger, usually during a rain or inclement weather, a tone will sound and the brake assist and stability control lights on the dash cluster will come on.Soon after, all of the lights on the dash cluster will begin to flash randomly. This includes the oil light, the check engine light, and even the speedometer and rpm meter. The engine and transmission will experience trouble shifting gears or accelerating or climbing hills. Sometimes the car will engine will shutter and not move. Once the vehicle is stopped and the engine shut off, the engine will not turn over for 5 to 10 minutes. Eventually the engine will turn over and the car will continue as normal or under partial power. This trouble has occurred four times.
I have taken the Charger to Danbury Dodge for repair three times and Meadowlands Dodge in Carmel, NY once. Neither dealership has replicated or repaired the trouble. The dealers will not do any further work on my vehicle until they replicate the problem. Unfortunately the trouble happens intermittently and without warning. So now I am left with little option but to contact Chrysler to resolve this problem. The first serious trouble occurred at approximately 7PM on or around August 18, 2007. The Charger was parked outside in the rain all day at my place of employment. The rain stopped shortly before 7PM that evening when I started the car. When I started the car the BAS and ESP lights came on instantly. The engine was making pinging noises and not driving under full power. I took the car to Danbury Dodge for repair. I dealt with Derek Thomas, the service advisor at Danbury Dodge. The technicians repaired the rocker arms. Derek mentioned codes for loss of communication and claimed the trouble was fixed.
The same trouble occurred a second time at approximately 6:30AM on September 9, 2007. I was driving on the highway in a light rain. The ESP and BAS lights came on followed by the other lights on the dash. I stopped the car, turned off the engine and had trouble starting the car. My mother was in the Charger at the time and witnessed the trouble. I took the car to Danbury Dodge, and they repaired a tube gasket and were unable to replicate the trouble.
The third instance occurred on October 10, 2007 at 7:21AM. The dash lights came on, reacted randomly, and the car was not able to climb any hills without stopping. I stopped the car, turned off the engine, and experienced trouble turning the engine on again. After about 10 minutes I was able to start the car and drive to work. I took the car to Danbury Dodge and they were unable to replicate the problem and did no repairs. I then took the Charger to Meadowlands Dodge in Carmel, NY. I dealt with Billy O'Brien. They were also unable to replicate the trouble despite driving the Charger down an interstate highway in the rain.
The most recent instance occurred on March 7, 2008 at 7:30PM. I was driving the car in heavy rain and, like clockwork, I heard the tell tale tone and all of the dash lights began to flash. I stopped the car, turned the key and was unable to start the car for 5 minutes. I was able to start the car and make it home. I took pictures of the dash lights using my cell phone. The problem occurred during the evening so I was unable to take my car to a dealer right then and there. I could not leave the car running until the dealership opened at 8AM on Saturday. I have not had the opportunity to take my vehicle to the dealer since. I know what to expect at this point.
I also took a video of the third instance, and it on youtube.com for the world to see. I believe that by showing as many people as possible proof that the problem with my Charger exists, maybe that will motivate your company to do something about it. The url is http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xDjwvHVMD6s. Please be sure to read the comments left by other visitors as well. I am also sending a copy of this letter to the consumer website The Consumerist at http://www.consumerist.com. The website is very insightful and I look forward to sharing my story with people across the world.
My Charger has undergone 4 repair attempts with no resolution. The dealers are unable to replicate the trouble and are therefore unwilling to do any necessary repairs. My vehicle has been out of service for around 15 days thanks to Danbury and Meadowlands Dodge. I am constantly afraid that my car will malfunction during a rainstorm, or at any time, and put my life and the life of my passengers in danger. In my experience Dodge and Chrysler dealers are not obligated to honor the warranty or fix obvious troubles. You and your fellow corporate leaders at Chrysler have the power to produce and maintain safe and reliable vehicles. That is the way to solid profits and loyal customers.
Sincerely,
Brian
Comments
I smell a Christine sequel.
Yeah, I think he's worried about how the hell to stop going bankrupt today Brian. Your weird car problem is super interesting, but right now banks want to seize all of his assets and sell his company like scrap metal at a junkyard. While it's nice to think that a CEO can wave his magic CEO wand over your car and make everything better, you should probably just make the dealership inspect your wiring.
Ed. note: You missed the opening bracket on your blockquote tag.
Write a letter to your state's Attorney General's Office. Chrysler bought back my Dodge Avenger via this method, well, and a device called a co-pilot proving that I wasn't an idiot.
The morons at your Chrysler/Dodge dealer can install a device called a co-pilot. You press a button when the problem occurs, and the co-pilot reads all the engine codes. The dealer or engineers in Detroit can interpret and decide what is going on.
My Dodge had a current spike, but they couldn't figure out what was causing it. They bought back the vehicle and I was free to pick out another Chrysler product, which I then dumped shortly thereafter.
My Opinion ???
It's an electrical short, since it happens in wet/damp/etc conditions. My suggestion? Take it to the dealer with the video, take the car to the dealership car wash onsite and have it just sit in the running car wash till it shorts.
sounds like a wiring issue...there is probably a short circuit that the rain takes advantage of
Apparently, Chrysler is buying parts from Lucas now?
You'd have thought they'd have learned from British Leyland not to do that...
You might be subject to the "lemon law" in Connecticut. The sign that is supposed to be posted in dealerships is below...
IF THE SAME SUBSTANTIAL DEFECT PERSISTS WITH YOUR NEW MOTOR VEHICLE AFTER
4 ATTEMPTS TO RESOLVE IT, OR IF YOU ARE WITHOUT THE USE OF YOUR MOTOR
VEHICLE FOR A TOTAL OF 30 DAYS OR MORE BY REASON OF REPAIR, DURING THE
FIRST 2 YEARS OR 24,000 MILES, YOU MAY BE ELIGIBLE FOR RECOURSE UNDER
CONNECTICUT LAW.
FOR MORE INFORMATION, CONTACT:
DEPARTMENT OF CONSUMER PROTECTION
MOTOR VEHICLE DISPUTE SETTLEMENT PROGRAM
165 CAPITOL AVENUE
HARTFORD, CT 06106
PHONE: 1-800-538-CARS
Excert taken from [www.ct.gov]
Chrysler's had a number of recalls pertaining to electrical system issues over the past two years. The four-door Jeep Wrangler being one of them I'm very well aware of.
Had a similar problem with my Subie, but it was from condensation inside the car. The useless TPMS harness sits in a little dimple in the floorpan where condensation tends to collect and short it out after a while. Battery drain, spontaneous speedo failure, turn signals that stay on after the car is shut off, &c. No fun.
Ahh.
Lucas. The prince of darkness.
/Former multiple MG owner
Ahh.
Lucas. The prince or darkness.
/Former MG owner.
My intrepid had the same problem after going through the carwash. It would be fine when it dried:(
Japanese Cars Forever!
@Ray Wert:
Interesting Ray... any details on the recall. I own an '08 model of the four door so you've piqued my curiosity!
This is not an uncommon problem with Dodge vehicles. All I have to say is good luck, after three service calls on my '05 Magnum for the same problem I gave up. The dealership could only find a loss of communication on the computer codes, and had no idea why it kept happening. I did finally figure out the problem is in the ignition switch, I separated the car key from the rest of my keys and it doesn't happen any more.
Lesson as always: never under any circumstances buy American.
Probably an intermittent short between the ECU and instrument cluster/steering wheel harness. This may just be a loose connector which shorts at high humidity, but more likely there is a water leak somewhere in the dash or around the bottom of the windshield. Diagnosing it will probably require removal of the dash, and inspection of all wiring harness and ECU connections. If the electronic diagnostic machine at the dealer didn't catch it by code, old fashioned visual inspection usually does the trick in short order.
This used to happen to my 1988 Volkswagen Jetta. Aaah, remember the days?
Chryselr has had electrical problems since the 80's when they oursourced a lot of the electrical through their Mitsubishi partnership. We paid a dealer a lot of money to not fix out van stalling problem when wet and I finally tracked it down to a badly designed crank sensor connection which would get water inside it and cause a poor connection.
I can kind of corroborate this issue. Occasionally, the dashboard indicator lights will flicker. This happens when just driving around, though- not in the rain. And I don't have any of the starting problems.
Does the Charger also like piña coladas?
Take it to the dealership on a rainy day, then take one of the mechanics for a drive and show them the problem.
@andrewe:
Lucas - the reason why Brits drink warm beer...
this sounds like a problem for click & clack.
@EDogII: Which country do you suggest? My '07 honda's radio goes out whenever it gets too humid out.
it is more than likely(i don't know chrysler wiring too well)a short in the main wiring harness, or at some connecter in that area. if anybody owns an early 90's nissan, they can probably tell you the same things. if all the lights start going nuts, and you get the gremlin then chunk the scan tool because it won't give you a code or you'll get too many codes. nope. good ole fashioned trouble shooting wires is what the dealership will have to do, but that's too many hours for no $$$$. even then, they probably would just replace the full engine wiring harness. still, too many hours for no $$$$. lazy service dept. they get paid just the same, just their bosses don't. i'm hoping thats the dealerships problem. i sure hope they're not complete idiots and can't figure out this obvious problem off the tops of their heads.
nonsense. this is a safety feature, warning the driver that it is raining and he/she should not be driving in such conditions.
its a bad ground....
I didn't realize that anyone actually bought Chargers, I thought it was rental companies only.
That looks to be a Siemen's (SP) dashboard. Maybe contact them if it's not an issue with the car itself?
Here is Consumerist showing their domestic bias again.
Some of us forwarded a story that even the media got involved in regarding the Honda Civic Si and its problems with the transmission.
Good Job Consumerist.
Poor guy. But that's what happens when you buy a Dodge.
Audi all the way!!!
What did you expect from an american car with 37000+ miles? That thing is on its last legs.....
@ash78: LOL, nice.
Every time I change any of the environmental controls in my car, the A/C turns on. Just sharin', no point. It doesn't really bother me, I'm used to turning it off, but it drives my husband CRAZY and after 20 explanations, he still thinks I do it on purpose. "Why do you have the A/C on when it's 5* out?" "I don't, YOU just turned the heat control hotter, that triggers the A/C." "I don't understand why you always turn the A/C on when it's cold out." "How about we take your car next time?"
@VladyLama:
Yeah, Japanese cars forever! Especially since Honda is not having a similar incident with their Element line, and possibly other models. I mean, they have not had several owners complain of symptoms such as the blower turning on full whenever they are in the rain or go through a carwash.
My guess. Somehow the ECM that drives most all the electronics in the car is getting wet, shorting out its functions. Sadly most mechanics today, if they can't get the diagnosis off a scope or diagnostic tester are lost. If you do go back to the dealer, ask for the oldest mech on the lot. He might be the only one with the shade tree ingenuity to figure it out.
MMMmm... smells like lemons...
Possible solution: Are you using the rear defroster when driving in the rain? If I drove in my old Geo Prizm in the rain and used the rear defroster for multiple cycles, almost the same thing would happen. The battery would drain from the load, and the computer would get confused, first it would shut off the ABS system, and later flash random lights on the instrument cluster, just as on here. If it's not that, its probably an alternator related issue, as heavy rain=wiper use= battery load.
Let's take the anti-domestic sentiment all the way, shall we? Why bother with domestic companies at all? At this point you should be able to have all your health care, banking, shopping, voting, and housing needs in general met at one of many other fine foreign locations. I highly suggest it.
My '98 Passat has intermittent interior dash lights. The nutty engineers put the brains of all the chassis electronics under the driver floor padding, right against the door jamb. Over time, water from your feet or floor mats slowly corrodes either the brain (CCM) or the wiring nearby and suddenly you can't rely on door locks and lighting any more. Nothing a swift stomp can't fix, but man that is ghetto when your passengers see it.
My guess would be a wiring system/electrical problem, probably brought on or exacerbated by extended exposure to moisture. My '90 Shadow had a similar issue where it wouldn't start after heavy rainstorms, and had an unrelated electrical glitch which would cause the speedometer to suddenly drop to zero without warning- usually doing the speed limit on the interstate.
Check for Technical Service Bulletins (TSB) and/or recalls and maybe it will turn up something. Recently we replaced the blower motor in my '02 Taurus- there was a TSB for it, so Ford knew there was an issue, and there was a recall for the original cause- the windshield has a leak because they were improperly mounted. Fun.
Recalls & TSB info- [www.safercar.gov]
@andrewe: why is beer served warm in britain? haaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa. um.
It's possessed?
The best bet with the dealer is to recreate the conditions as best as possible. Dealer service departments can be fickle as they dont like to leave their comfort zone and actually search for an issue.
To me, it sounds like a weak battery connection, or a bad ground in the system. Those issues can often be augmented by the presence of moisture. I dont know how mechanically inclined you are, but you might want to check it out yourself.
Those problems arent hard to fix, although mechanics at dealers typically wont try random fixes as theyre often paid flat rate.
@BlkCav: Exactly what I was thinking. There's probably a ground at or near the engine cradle that's getting wet.
We own a Dodge, never again. I wish wonky electrical would have been our only problem. Just about every aspect of the vehicle has some known flaw in the design. Had I known all this beforehand we wouldn't have bought it.
@Underpants Gnome: I'll stick to Japan...both my subarus run just fine. I mean, who would buy a dodge anyway? I can't seriously consider a company who brought us the Aries K.