Consumerist
Reader Matt has launched the dreaded EECB (Executive Email Carpet Bomb) on Home Depot—attaching a copy of a formal complaint that he filed with the Metropolitan Police in Washington, D.C..
In addition to poor customer service and an inadequately maintained and stocked store, Matt says he was illegally detained by the Metropolitan Police and forced to return to the store to show his receipt to a Home Depot employee.
According to his police report, the officer stopped Matt without reasonable cause and forced him to comply with "store policy." Matt feels that this was a violation of his 4th amendment rights.
Why are the Washington D.C. police enforcing Home Depot's "store policies" as if they were laws? Nothing better to do?
Here's Matt's letter to Home Depot's CEO Frank "Li'l Frankie" Blake:
Dear Mr. Blake,Since purchasing my home in March 2007, I've spent nearly $10,000 on various projects around my home; most of that was spent at my local Home Depot in Washington, DC. Despite the poor inventory, poor customer service, long check out lines, disorganization of the store, rummaged-through/opened/broken/incomplete items sold, and many other problems with the store, I've shopped there because it's local and has a good-sized lumber/drywall supply. After a recent incident, however, I'll likely not return and instead will probably drive a few miles further to a Lowe's in Maryland or Virginia in the future.
Long story short, I refused to show my receipt to exit the store, and was detained illegally (albeit briefly) by a uniformed Washington, DC Metropolitan Police officer in the 5th District on February 21, 2008. I've submitted a formal complaint to the police department, which is attached. I refuse to be treated like a criminal and be held at your store illegally in the future. As you probably know, most retail shrinkage/loss occurs as a result of internal theft by employees, not customers, so the store "requiring" customers to display receipts at exits likely isn't doing much good anyway (not to mention that customers are not legally required to display receipts).
In addition to this incident, I've experienced the below within the past few months:
-Lack of knowledgeable sales staff
-Discourteous sales staff
-Inattentive sales staff
-Trouble receiving replacement parts missing from a ceiling fan kit; the local Home Depot associate actually opened up a new box for a different fan, gave me parts he assured would work, and sent me on my way. The parts didn't fit my fan at all, and now the local Home Depot has yet another opened and incomplete item; the Chinese manufacturer was more efficient and shipped the parts to me as a courtesy.
-Saw used for cutting/ripping plywood and other lumber has been out of service for some time (forcing me to go elsewhere)
-Initial refusal by a cashier to allow an exchange of a Commercial Electric brand item; she claimed that the item was not purchased at a Home Depot, even though this brand is sold exclusively by Home Depot (after wasting 30 minutes of my time, a manager overrode the decision)
-Inaccurate inventory numbers, resulting in perpetually out-of-stock items (e.g.: one time, the store's inventory system indicated to a sales rep that the store had hundreds of an item in stock, yet no associate could find the large, oddly-shaped item, forcing me to go to a competing store out-of-state, which has helpful staff and plenty of the item readily available)
-A store security guard grabbing my person and my purchased items and not allowing me to leave the store; my father had the receipt and already left the immediate area (Again, this type of action is unlawful; store employees or contractors have no legal right to touch/assault customers or prevent them from leaving, even if no receipt is shown. After purchasing the items, a customer's obligation to the store ends.)
-Common items out of stock (one more than one occasion, I couldn't find a CPVC 1/2" elbow; this is a very common part, and it's frustrating to have to rig several components together to complete a project)
-A 40-minute wait to even speak to someone about ordering a sheet of laminate countertop material (I recently built my own kitchen cabinets and counters); three other associates were present and available in the department, but claimed that the one busy associate was the single person in the store who could give me a rough guesstimate of price (I gave up and drove a few miles out-of-town to Lowe's, which had a handful of popular styles of laminate sheets in stock, unlike Home Depot).
When I first arrived to DC, I was happy to hear that there was a Home Depot in town, as I was familiar with the "You can do it, we can help" attitude portrayed in advertisements. My experiences (only some are list above) have proven, however, that the Home Depot is most certainly not in a position to help as advertised. In fact, I wish I would have spend the thousands of dollars at Lowe's or other stores. Even with a further distance to travel and possibly higher prices, I wouldn't have left the store stressed out or frustrated nearly every time.
Mr. Blake, I realize this is a long e-mail, but I hope you— as Home Depot's CEO— will consider what I've said and work to institute changes at the Home Depot in our nation's capital; until then, though, I'll likely find a store that's well-organized and staffed with persons who are helpful.
In addition, I read today that Home Depot recently posted its first-ever annual sales decline, with a 27% drop in the fourth quarter of 2007. With those losses, I'm surprised that Home Depot hasn't gotten back to basics like having good customer service, sensible policies, and treating customers as they should be treated.
Please feel free to contact me via e-mail or telephone at [redacted] should you have any questions.
Yours,
Matt
Comments
If you've got nothing to hide, then just show the damn receipt. It doesn't take but like 5 seconds. Stop making a damn fool of yourself at the front door and just show it.
Um, can I be the first one? Matt, dude, you need to get a life. You should've stopped shopping at Home Depot the minute an item was out of stock or you were treated poorly.
Your rant makes my sixth graders' daily whining seem erudite.
Time to go to Lowes!
@Balance_In_Life (PSN):
Baaaaaa! Let's all think like sheep!
His complaint is entirely legitimate. Its his right not to show his reciept. Shrink is also largely internal as he said.
He is totally in the right. The Bill of Rights protects us from unreasonable search, and this is exactly that.
Its sick that the police are working for the interests of a private corporation.
Don't show the receipt.
event horizon II: Home Depot
@blitzcat: Paultards on Consumerist? What next?
@blitzcat: The Bill of Rights protects us from the government. Unless I missed something, Home Depot is not the government. Your ignorance is not adding to this discussion.
@Balance_In_Life (PSN): I disagree.
@loquaciousmusic: I agree that he should have stopped shopping there long ago, but I believe his complaint to be valid.
If you're carrying bagged merchandise that you purchased and are carrying a receipt for, don't stop when they ask to search you. Just don't stop.
Now, if you're carrying UNBAGGED merchandise, then please stop.
@CMU_Bueller: No, but the cop that stopped him is.
@loquaciousmusic: Nothing good to add to the conversation?
@CMU_Bueller: You did miss something, he was detained by the police.
@CMU_Bueller: The police illegally detained him, not Home Depot. RTFA
@AngrySicilian: Not really, no. He should've just shown the receipt and been on his way. Does he really think that this is going to change Home Depot's policies?
@Balance_In_Life (PSN): No, he's not legally obligated to show his receipt, and whether he has anything to hide or not is irrelevant. The fact of the matter was, he was illegally detained (read: kidnapped). He's not making a fool of himself, he's exercising his rights to NOT be held against his will, without probable cause. Good to see that not everyone blindly follows the flock.
It pains me to say that I've got no sympathy for him on this one. Of the thousands of people to enter a store, 99.9% of them will show their receipt without hesitation, despite the underlying illegality of it all. I would rather be on my merry way and blend in with the other 99.9% then try to make a fuss.
It could be worse like them writing your driver's license number down. Then I would be really upset. Sometimes its easier to just be normal :(
@loquaciousmusic: Have to agree...
Despite the poor inventory, poor customer service, long check out lines, disorganization of the store, rummaged-through/opened/broken/incomplete items sold, and many other problems with the store, I've shopped there because it's local and has a good-sized lumber/drywall supply.
You'd think there's enough in that one sentence to deter him from shopping there, but the "detainment" is the final straw?
Man that DC home depot BLOWS!!!
The self check-out where broken for 3 months through Christmas shopping season. Customers were unable to pay via credit card at the kiosks.
Also, its dirty, the employees are surly. Nothing is where it should be.
My wife ordered flooring from them last year. It arrived 3 visits and 2 months late. As the stock was pulled I watched the associate drop the boxes from the top of the ladder breaking the ends of the flooring as he was too lazy to carry it down. When I confronted him on it, it almost came to blows. I was much larger then him and I believe he thought better of it.
Given a chance I drive to PG or VA to Lowes. They are much better run.
I think the DC Home Depot is one of the highest grossing the the nation, due mainly to its location and the renovation boom thats been going on around here. It certainly isn't due to its service.
@Balance_In_Life (PSN): Why am I not surprised that the very first is an asshole posting the kneejerk "why not just bend over?" crap that we've argued a zillion times.
Feel free to surrender your rights. But don't you DARE bitch when someone else stands up for theirs.
If it's not posted, it's not enforceable. If someone asks to see your receipt; you ask to see where it says they have the right... policy or other wise.
He mentions that his father had the reciept in the letter (maybe not the criminal incident) when he was detained by Home Depot staff.
What I don't understand in so many of these cases, if Home Depot is so bad (broken saws, rude staff, etc) how in good conscience could someone possibly justify going there in the first place?
The complaint states quite clearly that these major issues have been ongoing - so why shop there? Why not shop somewhere that treats you well?
Given your long list of complaints, didn't you expect bad service when you went in there in the first place? Why not go elsewhere? There are plenty of lumber yards and hardware stores.
(obviously, the issues surrounding the police officer are a separate issue)
_Am
@CMU_Bueller: Simple: a private citizen can't stop you. That's unlawful detainment and/or kidnapping. Period. I can't stop you and force you to stay somewhere without being guilty of a crime. And without unreasonable suspicion that you have committed a crime, the police cannot stop you either.
Why not refer to one of the billions (seemingly) threads on this same issue?
@loquaciousmusic: it's possible... I've worked for big firms who had to alter policies after a big chief got a letter that made him think.
Oh man, nothing makes me sadder and physically ill than all of the "conform and just show your reciept" comments. A statement once attributed to Benjamen Franklin and quoted in the letter "An Historical Review of the Constitution and Government of Pennsylvania" (1759) sums up my feelings best: "Those who would give up Essential Liberty to purchase a little Temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety" -- except this situation is worse since convenience seems to be the selling point of this argument.
I agree with the poster above. Go to Lowe's.
I stopped shopping at Home Depot after they started treating everyone like a criminal. They kept me there for 30 minutes looking through every item that was scanned because they thought I was stealing something through the Self-Checkout.
After the clerk was done, I told her to void the charge and went to Lowe's. I haven't been back to Home Depot nor have I been treated like a criminal at Lowe's so I'm fairly happy.
@Buran:
Does that mean that a store detective cannot stop you and bring you back into the store if he sees you shoplifting?
@ldavis480: Yes, it seems like the Consumerist should come up with a bot to automatically delete all those comments. :-)
I generally show my receipt if asked to do so, and don't have much sympathy for someone who makes an issue of something so trivial (and in the grand scheme of things, it is trivial) just for the sake of making a defiant gesture. It smacks of temper tantrum. If this marks me as a "sheep," then shear my ass and keep me away from Welshmen.
However, the facts appear to suggest that they don't have the right to forcibly detain anyone who refuses to. If that's the case, then BB and the police were wrong and should be held accountable for it.
I look forward to reading about his lawsuit -- against the police department and Home Depot, for clearly violating his civil rights.
@Asvetic: Wrong. If they posted a sign saying they must check everyone's breasts on their way out to prevent shoplifting, that wouldn't make in enforcible. It's still against the law to search a private citizen.
Now if people agreed to the breast checks in some kind of membership (like Costco or BJs), that would be different.
Good luck, Matt. I'm glad to see that you've filed a complaint! I often get really worked when stuff like this happens to me but then I don't do anything about it.
@Balance_In_Life (PSN): Bullshit. Since when do the corparations interests supersede your freedoms? Start here and where do you stop? God, get a backbone.
@ecwis:
Better yet, how about a bot that preemtively determines whether your comment is defending the actions of the company requesting receipts. If you are, your comment is permanently detained.
*cough*
@ClayS: He said "without unreasonable suspicion", I'd say a detective seeing you shoplift counts as reasonable suspicion.
Here in Ontario I usually shop at Rona rather than Home Despot (yes, I typed that correctly). A few bad-experience-anecdotes keep me away from that chain.
I'm all for standing up for your rights, and if you feel the need to stand up for the right not to show the receipt then more power to ya. But one thing I find odd is that you've clearly shopped at the store before and know their policy. If you have no intention of complying then why continue to shop their? Doing business with them only allows them to continue to stay in business and does nothing to encourage them to change their ways.
But again, flex your rights all you want. I will say the police have no business doing Home Depot's bidding.
"why continue to shop *there*" rather
dangit
@bdsakx: So you would get upset about being asked to give your license number, and you would probably write to consumerist about it. And then someone would probably write something like:
"It pains me to say that I've got no sympathy for him on this one. Of the thousands of people to enter a store, 99.9% of them will give their driver's license without hesitation, despite the underlying illegality of it all. I would rather be on my merry way and blend in with the other 99.9% then try to make a fuss."
Don't you get it?
To all the people who say, "just do it, it only takes a second," I say screw you. What is the point of having a bill of rights if they can be violated by corporate whim. Where should we draw the line?
If home depot made a new policy that said everyone leaving the store had to lift up their shirt prove they are not concealing anything, would you have a problem? It would only take a second...
@chicagoandy: There is the issue that HD has put many of the mom and pop hardware stores out of business, so then the issue becomes is it worth it to drive twenty miles to find a different store. One or two slights maybe not, but after a while it becomes worth it.
wow, what a waste of his time. do you really think he's going to take this email seriously.
JUST SHOW YOUR RECEIPT AND PROVE THEM WRONG.
If you can't even prove them wrong, then you have lost the fight...
And stop ranting about previous issues, I am sure he's well aware of the issues, but he does not care. He will probalby take home in the upwards for 200+ million...
Oh no! If you show your receipt, Home Depot might know what you bought! The horror!
I'm sorry, I'm normally on the privacy side, but not in this case. I don't think it's unreasonable to be suspicious when someone makes a scene about showing a receipt.
@ClayS: Yes. At Best Buy at least, employees could ask the customer to stop. We could also nicely ask them to step inside the office and wait for the police. I heard the job was easier when the person confessed the sins.
@ClayS: That'd be reasonable proof of committing a crime. Obviously that did not happen here.
I used to work in a liquor store (attached to a grocery). I was told to never, EVER stop anyone, period- the most I could do is call security / loss prevention, and they could stop them IF I saw it for sure, and it was on camera. The reason being, people CAN and HAVE sued for being accused of stealing- not that this went quite so far, but it falls under the same legal heading- and that the shrink (loss) of a few items pales in insignificance compared with legal expenses and settlements. I've literally had guys just walk in, grab something and run out- in that case, you turn the tape over to the cops, and when they get busted for hitting their baby's momma, they get theft charges tacked on.
Good God, here we go with this again.
Lets just agree to disagree. Some will stand up for their rights, others will bend over and take it in the ass when someone questions their integrity. Its just the way it is. Now can't we all just get along?
@Buran: I can't believe I agree with you. ;)
Are you kidding me? There is absolutely no reason why, given the constitutional right of every citizen against "unreasonable search and seizure" he should have had to stop.
Last I heard, if one had been accused of shoplifting, which wouldn't be a stretch here to say, one has the grounds to sue.
And besides, isn't the purpose of this whole site to not act like mindless corporately-owned sheep and do what the companies tell us to do? We have minds. We should use them.
@Michael Belisle: Be suspicious, that's fine. And if you have reasonable cause to think that there's shoplifting, detain the individual. Just remember that if your suspitions are wrong, it's an illegal detainment.
Receipt checking is designed to counter one specific type of loss -where the cashier and customer collude to under ring items. That is frankly not my problem and I'm not about to waste my time helping them solve it.
I only show receipts at costco and that because the membership agreement requires it - everybody else can take a hike. I was banned from one comp-usa in the early 90's because of this which cost them about $50,000 in corporate business.
The poster is right on the mark in filing a complaint against the officer - the police are not (yet) a private corporate security force and the stop was a clear violation of his 4th amendment rights.
@homerjay:
Thank goodness, a voice of reason and balance without hyperbo...
...woops, nevermind. ^_^
@ldavis480: And what exactly is he standing up for? The right not to show his receipt at a store he CHOSE to shop at? If he wins what do we ALL win? Do we gain a piece of our liberty back? No, in fact we lose because we tie up a court system with issues that could be solved with common sense. We have a better system to excercise our rights, we vote with our wallets.
This guy had more than enough reasons to never shop at Home Depot again, the fact that he has had issues in the past leads me to believe that he is a frequent shopper and probably has run into this policy before. Why did he choose now to try and do something about it?
Spoken like a true authoritarian apologist, er who posts anonymously...
Practice what you preach BiL, if you have nothing to hide you should post under your real name! Me? I value anonymity, but I'm consistent about it.