My name is Ignacio Montoya. You asked for my ID to make a purchase. Prepare to die.

I'm confused, I was always told when I started working (in retail) that the merchant agreement required verification of ID and that the signatures matched between the card and ID otherwise the credit card company wasn't liable for the theft if there was one.

Next week on The Consumerist " Ignacio tells us - someone used my card to make a purchase and the merchant didn't catch it' I'm gonna cry, wet myself and complain until someone is forced to kiss my butt "

Talk about an overreaction!

Try this next time: "I will show you my ID, but I will not allow you to write down any of the ID's information";

@enine:

They need to verify that the signature on the card matches the one on the receipt. If the card's signed, they can't ask for ID, however.

consumerist: 1,000,001

bastard merchants: 0

I called 3 different numbers at Discover Card to find out their policy on this. Cardmember services, merchant services, and security. Unfortunately, it seems that Discover allows merchants to require ID (but disallows recording ID info) for purchases, unlike Visa and MC. I'd still like to get my hands (eyes) on a Discover Network merchant agreement.

@enine: There was this big long thread/post about this yesterday.

VISA/MC: can ask for ID, but cannot make it a condition for sale
AMEX: can ask for ID, but they generally discourage the practice

@MDSasquatch: Except you're not liable for unauthorized purchases if you report it in a timely matter as soon as you find out, so your point is moot.

not being liable and jumping through the hoops to remedy the problem are two different animals. Moot? I think not

Remember this [consumerist.com] posting?? I know that there are people out there who like it when they get their ID checked. (in fact, this post post will soon devolve into a battle of wee-wee warriors between those who know their rights and those who feel warm and fuzzy when they obediently show their ID.) I know my rights. I am not even going to debate the issue with the clerk. I respect that they feel that way, but I do not agree with them. When I am asked to show ID I tell the clerk, cashier, waitress that I am reporting it. Again, I am not about to debate it with them. They simply don't need to see my ID card to accept my credit card. Simple. As. That. MasterCard even has a handy web form for reporting merchant violations at [www.mastercard.com] . I have used this form several times to report merchants that have asked me for my ID. And to the chuckleheads who say that they would refuse my purchase if I refused to show ID on the basis of "acting suspicious" or that they have the "right to refuse service to anyone" you just earned yourself another check on my report to MasterCard. One for "The merchant/retailer required identification" and one for "A merchant/retailer displaying the MasterCard decal in their window refused to accept my MasterCard card"

@MDSasquatch: you obviously missed the quip (ignacio would be the character in the middle between andre the giant & wallace shawn).

"the princess bride". go add it to your netflix queue. it's a great movie.

I like it when merchants ask to see my id....and I write it on the signature line of my credit cards (along with my signature it says check id). Even with that written on my card, it rarely occurs.

I always assumed it was laziness when they didn;t ask for id, and now it turns out they're not supposed to?

Thanks, Consumerist...I learned something new today.

While it's nice they've owned up to their mistake, they should have been able to resolve this issue in store with the inclusion of the manager during the first purchase. This in no way excuses their action.

I don't see the problem. I would prefer that they ask for ID as a protective measure.

@B:

Did the cashier have six fingers?

@Islandkiwi: Too bad that "See ID" isn't valid according to Visa/Mastercard.

@enine: The credit card co's are discouraging ID checking because they want to encourage people to use credit cards "just like cash."

Show me your papers.... I'm tired, so very tired, of being asked for my ID, my zip-code, my phone number, my receipt, whether I have super-duper XYZ savings card, etc. Just sell me my goods and move on.

My standard response is no thank you to all. I often don't carry my ID with me and that works too.

@enm4r: Actually, the manager knew that the customer knew that the manager knew that the customer knew that the cardmember agreement said that they couldn't make the sale contingent on ID.

So he did the opposite- and died. Turns out the customer had spent years building up a resistance to retail idiocy.

wait... so you mean it was just an employee who didn't know/wasn't following the rules, and not a giant screw-the-customer conspiracy? zomg!

When I worked at best Buy as a cashier, we were told to check for ID if something looked suspicious. There was one time a gentleman refused to show his ID and I brought a manager over to tell them they we wouldn't sell it to him without showing his ID (that is what we were taught whether right or wrong). He ended showing it.

@ogman:

They're welcome to ask, and you're welcome to show it to them, if it makes you feel better. I don't show it, and they still have to serve me.

I really don't see the big deal. Just show your ID. Some people have problems, or just get off on making life hard on some retail clerk

I am so very, very confused.

@ribex: Discover doesn't care about the consumer, thats why I do have one. They also give you the least protection.

@MDSasquatch: thanks for you input but i would rather not show ID if I don't need to.

@SadSam: Right on!

Personally, if I was the manager and asked for ID and they refused - tell them to have a nice day and leave the store (minus the merchandise they have). If a store wants your ID that's their prerogative, just as it is yours to not shop there.

@floyderdc: they are making life hard on me if I can't buy something with my credit card with out showing them my life. Credit is suppose to be easier/faster then cash. If they knew the rules we wouldn't be in this position.

You know, the weekly arguments we have can be settled by a research study: If checking ID is at all useful, then stores that require ID (officially or unofficially) with credit card purchases should have a lower rate of fraud-related chargebacks than stores that don't (after controlling for any extraneous factors). If there's anyone out there that has access to those types of data, I just gave you a sure-fire study idea.

@MDSasquatch:

There are rules to be followed. Store doesn't follow the rules. Store gets called out. Store apologizes. Original poster called hysterical because they dared to challenge something. Ridiculous.

I love how everyone complains about store wanting to check your ID when you make a purchase with your credit card, but you know full well if someone were to steal your credit card and make a purchase from that very shop, you'd run in screaming, "BUT WHY DIDN'T YOU CHECK THEIR ID???"

It's a lose-lose situation.

@nursethalia:

Considering the cardholder won't be responsible for the fraudulent charges, and the credit card company essentially ends up eating the cost, one would think the credit companies would be requiring stores to check id's.

However, the CC companies don't do that. If anyone should be freaking out it's them.

@nursethalia: you are 100% correct.

this topic is so stale now. i knew apple would do the right thing in the end because they are an awesome company. some people just need to join complainaholics anonymous.

I ran into an issue yesterday at the Apple store at Cherry Creek Mall in Denver, CO. The clerk asked me for ID, and I respectfully refused, then the manager asked, and I also refused, citing the merchant agreement. She accused me of hiding something (yes, my identity and privacy) and said that it's corporate policy to check ID and to refuse purchases without it.

Because I had already driven to the store specifically to pick up a product on that day rather than wait for shipping, I ultimately showed them my ID but made it very clear that I was not going to be accused of being a criminal simply because I insist on adherence to laws and contracts.

Why is it that merchants can demand it and refuse to allow a sale to go through but in the same city, people are allowed to vote without showing ID?

I've not had the chance to pen my complaint to Apple, but I'm really bothered that I've been able to purchase an eMac, Macbook Pro, Macbook, several new versions of OSX, .Mac accounts, and make purchases on the online Apple store without showing ID. Now, seemingly within the past few weeks, clerks and managers of Apple Stores decide that it's their responsibility to make up rules and laws then appoint themselves as enforcers.

@ConnertheCat: Except for that pesky merchant agreement they signed to take Visa/MC. Now if they wanted to be an Amex/Discover only shop or not take credit cards....

@nacio:Masochist?, self hating consumer? @nursethalia: Nope, I would just call my credit card company, have it credited and let them deal with the details.

We all make choices. Some say this is a lame argument, we should just get over it and show ID. I choose to not make my personal data, that can be used to compromise my financial identity, easily available. Those of you to whom the risk of ID theft is outweighed by the bother of fighting to retain your privacy, more power to you, you stick with that. And by the way, @ConnertheCat is absolutely right - I will exercize my perogative to do business with retailers who do not expect me to give up my right to privacy in order to buy their product. That's what I'll stick with. Again, we all make choices.

@esthermofet: i would have asked for written proof of corporate policy because they don't have one! if write a letter to apple you will get a response!

@nursethalia: @yesteryear: Nope. Some of us try to be self-consistent.

As a victim of identity theft and the nightmare it results in, I actually thank cashiers that ask for my ID. I want them to check and see if I have a state ID and that my picture matches my face. Sure, I would like it if they would not take down my personal information, but you have to remember that they are accepting your credit, not cash. If you want to be anonymous, use cash. It is that simple. If some one handed me a card and said, trust me this is valid and I am the one responsible for it's payment, I would want some assurance that I would get my money. I mean, how many times do you see teenage boys using their mom's credit card to run an errand? I am guessing Billy doesn't look like Donna and the cashier rarely cares about that. Since the merchant get's hit with the charge back shouldn't they be the one given some leeway here. The problem isn't that they want your ID, it is that they want to copy down your address etc. Let us separate the two issues.

@nursethalia: right... if my card was fraudulently used, i would take the minute it takes to call my bank and then they credit my account immediately and investigate gives me plenty of protection. I would also be less likely to have my card stolen then you because you wave your personal info everywhere

@craigpress: check your facts, merchants won't get charge back from fraud use as long as they verify signatures and checking id doesn't mean anything. your just putting your self in the position to have your identity re stolen.

@B: i actually LOL'd at that

@Michael Belisle: sorry, what's self-consistent mean again?

@B: nice!

@mac-phisto: The character's name was Inigo Montoya. I can't tell if you already knew that or not...

@B: LAWL

@JustAGuy2:

Technically true. Though very few ever follow the practice of comparing. For those who think, "I won't sign it at all", well some cards are very specific. They clearly mention that the card is not valid unless signed. It seems American Express is the only one I can find so far that doesn't have that stipulation.

Personally, I don't mind checking of ID. It is quite good actually to help confirm you are who you say you are. It is not like they are just going to start writing down all your info.

Some places don't even compare your signature to the one on your card, or bother to look for a signature at all. Remember, it isn't just the credit card companies that get a headache when your card is compromised, you get one too.

I don't get it. Your card has your name on it. It's not like you're hiding/protecting your identity by not showing ID when it's printed on your card.

i worked in apple retail for a while and i honest doubt the veracity of the response. company policy is to not accept cards without id. bottomline. i doubt ignacio's complaint is going to change corporate policy at one store much less the hundreds of others that apple runs.

likewise, i don't know if they've changed the machines in the last 6 months since i worked there but there is nowhere to capture addresses. you swipe the card on the device, get an email address to email the receipt and optionally a zip if the customer agrees.

The sad part is that most cashiers generally don't verify identity AT ALL, including the 'match the signature' game they're supposed to do. Even the ones that actually do check it probably aren't trained to spot a subtly different signature between the card and slip.

It's been a few years but I recall a story (non-consumerist) where a guy tested merchants by signing different things than what he put on the back of his card. Unbelievably, most merchants would actually look at both and let the guy go! It got to the point where the guy was drawing elaborate pictures on the slips and even writing that he wasn't the guy that really owned the card (even though he really was). The gist is that the very few people that actually compared the card and the slip did nothing when the signatures were different.

Solution to all of this? Three-pronged approach:

1: Train cashiers to check signatures and to recognize differences in handwriting. Just the basics as they don't need to study and recognize a 13th-century %important_document% forgery.
2: Train managers (and cashiers by extension) to know the rules of the Merchant Agreement. Test those staff members. Regularly. This needn't be expensive nor time-consuming, either.
3: If the business is going to be held accountable to the CC companies via the Merchant Agreement, the employees need to be held accountable if they fail the business after being appropriately trained. Fire them!

@floyderdc: What if you don't have your ID on you, since you KNOW for a fact that all you need to make a credit card purchase is your card, and your signing hand? In that case, you can't show your ID.

Of course, I worked in a bay area Apple Store, and we all knew this policy, so this is just Stonestown's mess up.