Seems fair enough. Why should they assume risk?

Having worked in retail, I am EXCEEDINGLY curious about this topic.

anything consumerist can find out i am interested in.

That's great. Check ID all you want, most consumers won't care. But if the consumer refuses, you can't deny the sale. If the practices of Visa, MC, etc aren't fair to you, deal with Visa and MC. Not the consumer. 99 times out of 100, the consumer you're asking for ID is completely legitimate and won't appreciate being treated like a thief.

Yah, I've kinda wondered about this, too. I have also seen those references to the "merchant agreement" on this website and assumed (incorrectly, I guess) that if this is the case, then the credit card companies would then hold the merchants blameless if a stolen card is used at their establishments. Now hearing the other side of the issue, I can't help but feel for merchants for being placed in the middle. If I were a business owner/manager, I probably would do the same as the OP. FWIW, I show my ID when I use my cards, and tell the cashiers I appreciate them asking to see it.

Guy has a point - sounds like the credit card companies need to make their minds up about user agreements and liability.

I think it is ridiculous that someone would not show a picture/signature ID at a purchase. For Christ's sake, it's for your benefit, not to steal you identity. What a wasteful topic and a sorry selfish few who are so privileged that they would rather not buy a product than have someone simply verify that it is them making the purchase. STUPID I SAY!!!!

Here. For all you babies. Sleep well:

[www.privacyrights.org]

this makes more sense anyhow. seems a lot more foolproof than expecting a 16 year old at target to suddenly become a handwriting analyst, as some commenters were suggesting in response to that apple article.

[usa.visa.com]

I refer to page 29. - "Requesting Cardholder ID"

Bolding is theirs.

"Although Visa rules do not preclude merchants from asking for cardholder ID, merchants cannot make an ID a condition of acceptance. Therefore, merchants cannot refuse to complete a purchase transaction because a cardholder refuses to provide ID. Visa believes merchants should not ask for ID as part of their regular card acceptance procedures."

Note, previous link is a PDF. Sorry for neglecting to state that.

You can view the agreement here [usa.visa.com]

His point is misguided. If a credit card is swiped the credit card company is not able to dispute the charge for most reasons (including fraud). That risk is on the credit card company. If a credit card is keyed, the transaction is easily disputable. That is why in the credit card rules merchants are able to ask for ID if the card is keyed.

"I am not sure what merchant agreement your readers keep referencing, but this simply isn't true. "

I think they're referencing the document called "Rules for Visa Merchants: Card Acceptance and Chargeback Management Guidelines." [usa.visa.com]

On page 29, there's a section called Requesting Cardholder ID:
When should you ask a cardholder for an official government ID?
Although Visa rules do not preclude merchants from asking for cardholder ID, merchants cannot make an ID a condition of acceptance Therefore, merchants cannot refuse to complete a purchase transaction because a cardholder refuses to provide ID. Visa believes merchants should not ask for ID as part of their regular card acceptance procedures . Laws in several states also make it illegal for merchants to write a cardholder's personal information, such as an address or phone number, on a sales receipt.

Too lazy to search for MasterCard, AmEx, Discover, Diner's Club, etc.

@shadowkin: Oops, you type faster than I do.

Pulled this from section 2.1.1.2....of the mastercard merchant agreement...

"For unique transactions processed in a face-to-face environment (with the
exception of truck stop transactions and card-read transactions where a
non-signature CVM is used), request personal identification of the
cardholder in the form of an unexpired, official government document.
Compare the signature on the personal identification with the signature on
the card."

Merchants could avoid this whole dilemma by required photo ID for ALL purchases above a certain amount - if the transaction can't begin until an ID is produced, the merchant wouldn't be in violation of the "merchant agreement" because seeing the ID isn't a condition of accepting credit card payments - it's a condition of the sale. Period.

Of course, who wants to show their ID every time they buy a pack of gum, right? This would obviously only work on big-ticket items that are almost never paid for with cash anyway.

Does anyone know if there's an inherent problem with requiring ID for all purchases over $XXX, regardless of payment method?

WalterNY,
It is not for your benefit. Most credit cards have 0 liability protection, as long as it is reported in a timely manner. When I worked in the industry, I only saw the cardholder held responsible a few times. Each time was because the card was used by someone they knew and they would not file a report to the police for the theft.

I'm going to have to agree with WalterNY. For someone to get upset, because a retail jockey wants to verify that you are who you are presenting yourself to be, is ridiculously asinine. I didn't even sign my debit card. All it says on the back is ASK FOR ID.

I've worked in retail (wayyyy back when) and our merchant agreement required the same thing (must check IDs or it could result in an automatic chargeback) but didn't require video. The bosses would just say 'yea, we checked their id' and the bank would accept that.

Now I deal with transactions where we never meet the customer (mail-order specialty pharmacy) and read through our merchant agreement with Nova, they don't require ID or signature. This is most likely due to our type of business since not only is it much, much easier to track down fraudsters since we also require a valid rx, referral and insurance but it would be extremely difficult to obtain an ID and signature from most of our customers. We also don't deal with schedule 2 drugs (oxycodone, etc) so just by statistics we have less chance for fraud.

When I used to work at a retail store, my boss actually told me about not being able to request ID. So for merchants to say they have to, they obviously don't because my boss and owner of the store told us that it was illegal to force them to show us. Personally, I think it's safter to show it than to not. As long as they don't write down info, which they rarely do (I've never encountered it during a credit card transaction) then its much safer than showing a signed card. If someone picks up your card and its signed, all they have to do is emulate youre signature. So I don't understand why people are so hesitant to show their ID. I would hope they would as for ID. It proves its you, end of story.

Merchant Agreement? What shit is this? I worked at wolf camera for two years, only had one customer refuse to show me his ID, and it was an older gentleman, foreign. The ONLY reason I asked is that the purchase was over $50, per store policy. We had been discussing cameras politely for over 20 minutes before he decided to buy a memory card, when I asked to see his ID he said no. I thought he was joking, only to look at his face to tell he wasn't. I politely told him the store policy, and he said "I shouldn't have to show my ID because of my age." He asked to talk to the manager, who was standing right there, he told him the exact same thing I had. He raised his voice slightly, saying I was going to sell him that card. I politely told him that unless he could show me a valid form of ID that I could not sell it to him. He asked where the next nearest Wolf was, and I told him. As soon as he was out of the store I called that store and everyone in a 3 mile radius, describing him and telling them to not sell him anything unless he showed his ID.

I'd been burned by bad returns, check fraud, counterfeit money (a 1$ bill) and I was NOT going to let my DM have any reason to breath down my neck the next time she showed up.

I despise frauders. Not only do they frequently ruin the lives of those who they're stealing money from, they make retail a very difficult business. Every time someone stole a camera, wrote a bad check for one, or used a stolen credit card I LOST money from a potential sale from a REAL customer. When most of your salary comes from the skill you have in selling, and you have a VERY limited inventory, one sale makes a hell of a difference. When you steal from a store I work at it's stealing money out of MY POCKET.

This is the Mastercard page where you can report merchants for asking for ID, but the info that SwissDietCoke quotes says they SHOULD ask for ID?? huh? Now I'm confused:

[www.mastercard.com]

Mastercard allows you to report request for ID
[www.mastercard.com]

Mastercard says in their manual: [www.mastercard.com]
Cardholder Identification A merchant must not refuse to complete a MasterCard card transaction solely because a cardholder who has complied with the conditions for presentment of a card at the POI refuses to provide additional identification information, except as specifically permitted or required by the Standards. A merchant may require additional identification from the cardholder if the information is
required to complete the transaction, such as for shipping purposes. A merchant in a country or region that supports use of the MasterCard Address Verification Service (AVS) may require the cardholder's ZIP or postal code to complete a cardholder-activated terminal (CAT) transaction, or the cardholder's address and ZIP or postal code to complete a mail order, phone order, or e-commerce transaction.

Dont want to follow the rules - dont accept VISA/MC ...
Maybe you could get by on Amex.

@Scott (the person referenced in the article):

Well... you asked for it, so here are the official references.

Visa: (look at pages 33 and 34 on the PDF file)
[usa.visa.com]

It specifically states that you're supposed to check for ID (preferably an official government ID) ONLY in circumstances where the card submitted to you (the cashier) is not signed or when you are instructed to do so upon processing.

If you look further down onto "Requesting Cardholder ID" section, it states in BOLD FACE text: "Therefore, merchants cannot refuse to complete a purchase transaction because a cardholder refuses to provide ID. Visa believes merchants should not ask for ID as part of their regular card acceptance procedures."

Mastercard: (see page 149 on the PDF, section 9.11.2)
[www.mastercard.com]

"A merchant must not refuse to complete a MasterCard card transaction solely because a cardholder who has complied with the conditions for presentment of a card at the POI refuses to provide additional identification information, except as specifically permitted or required by the Standards. A merchant may
require additional identification from the cardholder if the information is required to complete the transaction, such as for shipping purposes. A
merchant in a country or region that supports use of the MasterCard Address Verification Service (AVS) may require the cardholder's ZIP or postal code to complete a cardholder-activated terminal (CAT) transaction, or the cardholder's address and ZIP or postal code to complete a mail order, phone order, or ecommerce transaction."

---

As of Discover and American Express, the rules are different. However, if a customer does complain that his/her card wasn't honored even though the merchant is supposed to accept the card and he/she complied with the cardmember's agreement, they'll be on you. My father learned it the hard way (and eventually stopped accepting those two, but that's a different story)

I don't understand the problem with showing one's id for a credit card transaction. Having suffered an attempt at identity theft, I appreciate it when the merchant takes the trouble to check that I am who I say I am. While my id thief was scotched almost immediately when he tried to take out a credit card that I already had, had he obtained the card and attempted to use it at a store which checked id, he would have been caught as well. In fact, I have a friend who has written "check my id" in the signature space on the back of all his cards, having suffered his own id thievery problem.

Now if they decide to write down the id information, that is another story...

Is it really that difficult to just show your ID when paying with a credit card?

@swissdietcoke: What's special about truck stops?

@Lea9017: Someone responding with "Just show your receipt" type remark in 3... 2... 1...

I wish everyone would just make up their minds already.

If I had to show my ID (but they don't write down things like DL number anywhere) fine. But I just get sick of it being an arbitrary thing even on lower dollar purchases at the same retail store.

When you buy something at a big box store and all of the sudden you have to show ID when previous purchases of the same dollar range didn't require it and other purchases after the fact didn't require ID, the retailer is accusing you of being a criminal.

Looking at the agreements, it looks like this merchant is misinformed. I don't know what they are referencing, but I'm not going to just take their word for it over the Visa/MC websites. If they want me to believe them they need to provide a more solid reference than this anecdote.

To everyone: CREDIT CARD ACCOUNT THEFT IS NOT IDENTITY THEFT. Why do people not understand the difference?

I have no problem with them asking for my ID, with the exception that they not write down my drivers license number, address, etc. They can see my ID to make sure it's me, and that's it. Creating countless other databases at each store full of our personal data only puts consumers at greater risk for fraud, and the companies themselves haven't shown an ability to keep their databases secure. How many stories have there been just in the last 12 months of companies being hacked into, and that doesn't include criminal employees stealing data at the store level.

I worked retail for two decades in the 80's and 90's. Back then my company only asked for ID on personal checks, but they had a company policy that we could not write down a drivers license number, SSN, etc., only make sure a phone number was listed. (Even the phone number may have been against some consumer law, but I never had a customer question that.)

Ok, so we've seen where it says that merchants can't make ID checking a part of the transaction. Can anyone substantiate this guy's claim that the merchant gets nailed for NOT checking IDs?

Scott needs to learn to use "bad debt" in the correct context.

"Although Visa rules do not preclude merchants from asking for cardholder ID, merchants cannot make an ID a condition of acceptance. Therefore, merchants cannot refuse to complete a purchase transaction because a cardholder refuses to provide ID. Visa believes merchants should not ask for ID as part of their regular card acceptance procedures."

HOWEVER, I think that perhaps the merchants are refusing to complete the transaction based on the fact that, by the consumer not providing identification or by refusing to, the consumer may not be the same person as that identified on the Credit Card. Therefore, protecting themselves from CC fraud and the individual named on the card from fraud. Basically the merchant refuses completion of transaction based on suspicion. Thats how I understood it when I worked my Hourly wage restaurant and retail jobs.

I used to make fake id's in college so me and my friends could get into bars. This is not the easiest thing to just figure out so I eventually came upon a message board called Shadowcrew. This forum mostly talked mostly about carding but also fake id's.

It was amazing how easy it was to get credit card information or any kind of info. You could literally buy a wallet that would come with multiple credit cards of the same person with a fake id also. You could find out anyone's social security information. You could buy 10 credit card numbers for $25. It was all so cheap.

Most of the carder's had a fake id's with them also. So even showing a id would not stop them. I can guarantee a 16 year old cashier could tell it was fake also. So this whole entire issue seems like a moot point to me.

I think we are all misdirecting our complaints on this issue. And here's why:

I am starting to think my own obsession with this ID checking thing is boiling down to psychology.

When asked for ID, it feels like the person behind the counter is not trusting me. As a trustworthy person, I am offended by this.

Then I get pissed off at the frauds out there who steal credit cards and try to use them, who then cause this problem to begin with.

So shouldn't we all be pissed off at them, and neither the retail stores OR the credit card company?

It sucks when a small percentage of assholes ruin it for all of us.

If I'm ready this correctly, on the Mastercard agreement, you can't request a government ID as condition of accepting the card (9.11.2) unless it's allowed elsewhere in the agreement. Section 2.1.1.2 seems to allow it, making section 9.11.2 a moot point, in this case. I'm assuming these are from the same document, of course.

I do a lot of shopping on my lunch break at work. Most places just glance at my work ID badge around my neck and that seems to fulfill their requirement for "checking ID" (most are polite enough to try to hide the cringe at the awful picture).

@Aaron Pratt: My interpretation would be that they are supposed to ask, but that they can't refuse the transaction solely because you refuse to show it.

So the merchant is screwed no matter what, right? They can't require an ID for purchase, but if they don't they risk a chargeback? No wonder a lot of smaller businesses don't take credit cards.

LOL - the credit cards want it both ways: 1 - do not ask for ID.
2 - if it is credit card fraud, the merchant cannot have a refund unless they can prove they asked for ID.

WTF?

As a manager for one location in a large hotel chain the only time we ask for ID is if a copy of a card is faxed to us for use for a guest, or if they ask for a cash advance. Both of these are allowed by the CC companies.

I have never lost a "Charge Back" as long as I had a receipt and a signature.

@johnva:
"To everyone: CREDIT CARD ACCOUNT THEFT IS NOT IDENTITY THEFT."

Of course it is. When you use a credit card, you are, in effect, promising to pay for something later. When someone uses a credit card with my name on it, a stolen or forged credit card, they are pretending to be me, promising that I will pay for something later.

What, you think identity theft only refers to some space-alien duplicating my dna and living in my house?

I think it's simple - if you don't want to show ID, pay with cash. If you are using a credit card, THE MAN already has you by the balls, so it's not like refusing to show ID is proving your independence or anything.

@clinky:
Please don't give our plans away, thank you.

What good is checking ID in a Brick and Mortar store when you can use your CC online... or heck at one of the fancy dancy new Self-Checkout lines with no one watching you (save a few CCTV's). I have yet to sign my actual name on one of those things.

@Happy13178:
*applause*

I work retail and I get mad pissy when anyone asks to see my ID. I live in DC and I try to be wallet free as often as possible, carrying nothing more than a dollar or two and my check card getting on and off the metro. Deal with the credit card company if you feel like you're getting screwed. Don't take it out on the consumer.

And we only ask for ID if you're trying to manually enter the credit card or we're looking up your account number.

It's funny. Many of you merchants are going on about how necessary it is to check for ID, but there is one face to face business transaction where companies never seem to do it: settling the bill in restaurants.

Either the rules are different or they simply don't do it because no one has figured out a way to ask for ID politely in a dining situation.

And what if the ID is fake?

Anyway, it makes sense to verify ID against a credit card if: a) you're suspicious of the purchaser (i.e. their name says "Chang" on the card but they're obviously caucasian) and b) you have experienced a lot of bad credit cards at your location. Of course if you're just running into the store credit card in hand, that could mean no sale.

What happened to those credit cards that had photographs on them? I remember reading how 90% of those cashiers tested didn't even bother to verify that the purchaser resembled the picture...

Just want to throw in my 2 cents:

I worked in the sales audit department at the corporate headquaters for a nationwide retailer until September of last year. Among our other duties, we had to comply with these "retrieval requests" on a daily basis. This involved calling the store where the transaction took place, having them dig through their media envelope, find the signed receipt, and fax it to us. We in turn would forward a PDF to Visa/MC/AmEx/Discover as proof of signature.

Not once did we ever have to provide Visa/MC with video evidence of the customer signing the receipt. That's simply impractical. Also, we had way more than 48 hours to respond. We were also told that, under the terms of our merchant agreement, cashiers should be instructed NOT to ask for ID on a card that was signed on the back.

Maybe the credit cards negotiate different terms with different retailers. It's very possible that Scott's company is held to different standards based on the merchandise they sell. Our chain didn't sell anything more than ~$100, so I could see how things could change if you were selling, say, plasma TV's.

"This means we have 48 hours to provide a legible signed receipt, and video evidence of my staff checking a photo ID to verify the cardholder." I'm guessing the 'and' should be an 'or' instead.

In college I worked at a nationwide retailer that had cameras covering the main bank of registers, but not another in the back. When we would get a retrieval request, we only had to provide video if the signed original receipt could not be found, which would happen on occasion when a new hire was only then learning to keep his or her media organized - basically when an original receipt would potentially be lost.

If the person's original was lost from the front bank of registers the store would be fine, but if lost from the back then we would be screwed. That said, I too refuse to show ID.

I work at a retail store and I *always* check IDs for CC transactions. What's funny is that some of them are actually thanks me for checking their ID. Haven't you ever seen CC with "SEE I.D." instead of signature?
I just don't want to get in trouble with CC fraud. I don't need this.

When I worked retail, the store CC was only available for people 18 and over, so when someone obviously under 18 came in and had the store CC, we made sure to check ID. In most cases it's mom or dad's card, and we'd actually deny sale because it obviously wasn't theirs. I didn't feel bad about denying a 13 year old a sale, seeming I worked at a popular chain of undergarment stores.