Consumerist
Reader Kevin's XBOX 360 suffered the usual Red Ring of Death, so he sent it in to be repaired. He got back a different XBOX 360 with a different serial number. That would be no big deal, except Kevin has purchased a bunch of content through XBOX Live... content that is no longer fully functional due to Microsoft's broken DRM.
Here's a quick summary:
- November 2007: Kevin's XBOX 360 is replaced, causing his content to lose full functionality. He calls Microsoft.
- Microsoft keeps Kevin on the phone for an hour trying different methods of restoring functionality to his content. Nothing works. They say they will call him back in two weeks.
- They do not call him back, so he calls them. Microsoft makes him repeat the steps he tried the first time he called. They tell him they will call him back in two weeks.
- This cycle repeats twice more before Kevin gets a call from Frank at XBOX escalations. It's now the second week of January.
- Kevin periodically speaks to Frank. Frank has no answers for him.
- February 7, 2008: Frank tells Kevin that there's nothing more he can do and, when Kevin asks when he can expect a resolution, Frank says "hopefully sometime in 2008."
Kevin writes:
I just wanted to drop you a line about my recent experience with Microsoft's horrible customer service for their 360 consoles. First a bit of background for folks not familiar with the 360's problems and it's DRM system.Intern Alex asked if he tried escalating his complaint and pointed him to some contact info that we'd posted. Kevin wrote back:It's well known that Microsoft's 360 console has an unusually high failure rate resulting in many users suffering what has been coined the 'Red Ring of Death' and being forced to send in the console on warranty. While Microsoft has extended the warranty on these systems for 3-years against this problem they are refusing to fully repair the devices. While they are happy to replace the device if you are an Xbox Live Marketplace user your box will not be fully functional on return. If you have purchased any content through their Xbox Live service which sells full games, movies, tv shows and add-on content for various titles you will find that it no longer works properly on your replacement console.
When you purchase content on Xbox Live it's linked to two things. The Xbox Live ID of the original purchaser of the content and a secret 'code' of some sort inside the Xbox 360 itself. You can use your content on any Xbox 360 anytime your are signed into Live using the original purchaser's Xbox Live account. You can also use the content offline or with any profile signed into the 360 the content was originally purchased on. This is particularly good for families who have multiple gamers with separate profiles. Any content purchased on the system is available to everyone who signs into the box online or offline. Well, that is until your box red rings.
In October of 2007 my 360 experienced a hardware failure and the red ring of death. I sent it in for replacement and after waiting over a month I was shipped a new replacement console. This new replacement console has a different serial number and as a result all of my downloaded content only works now when the purchasing profile is signed into Xbox live. Additional profiles on the system can no longer access the content. I can no longer access the content when I'm not signed into Xbox Live. So any internet issues with my system or Xbox Live (which experienced serious problems for most of last month) means I can no longer use the items I have purchased. As far as I'm concerned since the functionality I had before is now crippled my console has not been repaired.
I immediately contacted Microsoft when I noticed this a day or two after I received my system back in November of 2007. They had me try a few things in the system blade and redownload one of my items. This did nothing to resolve then issue. At that time they put me through over an hour of providing them with serial numbers, reference numbers, UPS tracking numbers and all sorts of other information while they located the information about my repair. Somehow they had apparently lost it. After this frustrating episode was over they escalated me to a supervisor. He informed me this had to be reviewed and that someone would call me back in the next two weeks.
Two weeks go by, I call back. I first get a Xbox Live rep who doesn't know what to do with my reference number from my previous call and makes me go through the whole process again of giving serial numbers and items from the previous ticket. I get escalated to a supervisor who thankfully can use my original reference number. He tells me he has nothing new to tell me and that I should expect a call back in the next two weeks.
This cycle repeats two more times until I get fed up with constantly being told 'two more weeks!' and I email a different contact address in Microsoft. This seems to get things moving since I'm contacted very quickly by a representative who only calls himself 'Frank' from "Microsoft Xbox Escalations" he assures me that he is going to follow the issue to resolution. But he has nothing to tell me at this time but promises to give me weekly updates until the issue is resolved. It is now the 2nd week of January.
The next week he calls up asking me to give him the serial number for the console so he can pass it along to whoever is working on the issue. He says he doesn't have anything new but hopes this will help. The next week he calls up to report that he has nothing new to tell me yet. Still no ETA. This continues weekly until February 7th.
Yesterday, February 7th, Frank calls to tell me he will no longer be working on my case because there is nothing he can do. I ask if he is passing me onto someone else who will handle it and he says he is not. I ask if there is anyone I can call for status updates on my issue and he says there is not. I ask him when I can expect it to be resolved and he says I quote: "hopefully sometime in 2008." I ask to speak to a supervisor and he refuses assuring me there is nothing that can be done. Apparently my issue is being handled by the "Live Team" but whoever this team is they do not talk to any department outside their own, they do not give ETAs. Essentially I'm being told that since my console suffered a widespread hardware failure, was serviced by Microsoft under warranty, that now I'm supposed to wait for a call back from Microsoft some day in the next year or more for the system to be fully functional again. Furthermore I have nobody I can contact or speak to regarding the status of my problem.
Let this be a warning to anyone considering making purchases on Xbox Live. Microsoft does not stand behind their product in regards to this service and failures of their own systems. They are happy to take your money and give you the run around until you simply give up and go away. This is honestly the worst customer service experience I have ever had with any company.
I saw that and sent an email to each of them and one to Major Nelson who runs Microsoft's official Xbox Live blog.As a result of those emails, Frank called me again.
He confirmed for me the following:
* That he can give me no ETA for when this issue will be resolved.
* That there is nobody I can call for status updates since the team that does 'relicensing' does not give updates.
* That they will only provide me with resolution when all my content is relicensed not partial.
* That there is no compensation for the fact this has taken and will likely take months more to resolve.
* That there is nothing more he can do.
* That he 'hopes' that it will be resolved shortly.I'm expected to accept this as the resolution and basically "don't call us, we'll call you."
Worst Customer Service Ever.
Kevin
(Photo:Milkham)
Comments
I have an answer and its one word................MICROSOFT!!!!
I remain amazed that people continue to buy these fatally-flawed devices and any service associated with them. Microsoft can't get their act together to save their lives, it seems. I'm not blaming Kevin here, since he doesn't deserve this, and for all I know wasn't aware of the unreliability, or bought his device before the news started getting out, but at this point I'd strongly be considering selling the thing and getting out.
I did that when I got sick of Windows Mobile (another Microsoft product, hmmm).
Good luck.
Ok, wouldn't an EASY solution for this mess just be, credit the account with enough points to purchase the items again?
Ok, so instead of 'buying' Gauntlet again, I 'buy' a different game.
Customer gets what he wants, MS can cut the support on the issue to just trying to find a permanent fix.
Simple solution - stop buying DRM protected content. It's a hassle and NOT designed to be consumer friendly.
AFAIAC, anyone who buys DRM laden products gets what they deserve.
hey microsoft. Simple solution.
You have records of what he's bought. You have records of the problems hes having. REFUND. THE. FUCKING. POINTS.
DUH. I'm sure he would be and have been much happier with the solution that hey, we can't do anything to fix the problem so we are going to refund your live points so you can repurchase those items.
Easy fix.
I've been going through the same hassle and it's really ridiculous. They give you a 30 business days time frame from the point the supervisor authorizes the license transfer. I call them every week to get an update and they keep telling me to "kindly wait" and that they have the "highest level people" working on it.
Just give me my content back so my wife can play Puzzle Quest. This is ridiculous.
A similar situation happened to a friend, and he's so unhappy with M$ right now that he simply refuses to even consider any more M$ products, including their PC OS systems.
Someone needs to get the ball rolling and start lawsuits and complaints with the Attorney General's office of the state they reside in. Hopefully, enough lawsuits will occur that it'll be branded class-action and M$ will wind up having to fix their system or suffer some seriously heavy financial losses.
I had considered an XBoX 360, but I think I'll go with either the Wii or the PS3 when I decide to finally purchase one. Right now, I'm happy with my GameCube and PS2.
Kevin, file complaints with the BBB, your state's Attorney General's office and possibly start a lawsuit against M$. Other than that, not much you can do.
What i dont understand is why dont they "pair" your content to your Hard drive instead of the console.
The purpose of the hard drive is to be able to "bring your console to a buddies place"
and since you dont send back the hard drive when your console explodes it wouldnt be a problem when you got the new software
This is why I am VERY wary to purchase anything from the Playstation store. The $10 you spend is on 1's and 0's and not a physical product. Supposedly you can re-download your purchases, but I'm not to keen on testing that.
I'm starting to buy less content on 360 and more on PS3 because my HD is getting full on my 360 and MS seems to have no intention to allow me to buy a new HD from them and be able to use the content I BOUGHT offline.
@Murph1908: I like your idea. In fact, take it a step further. Offer him Live Gold free for 2 years, enough gold points to buy double what he previously had, and a huge apology for making him wait so damn long.
Refuses to let you speak to a supervisor? Damn. I still say Linksys has the worst customer service I've ever had to deal with, but that's pretty bad right there.
The truth is that all of his hassle could have been negated by the first person being well-informed that this is what happens when a console is replaced. Nothing broken, the system was working the way it was supposed to.
(NOT THAT I AGREE WITH THE DRM STUFF. Please understand where my criticism comes from.)
With all the red rings out there, I can't believe anyone was surprised! By his account, he spoke to three different reps, none of which let him in on the situation? Or did he keep complaining, and the rep did the whole "Well, I don't think there's anything we can do, but I'll have someone give you a call" thing to get him off the phone?
My money's on the last one.
I don't see why Microsoft just gives him some promo codes so he can re-purchase everything on his new box.
~`
When my 360 failed, Microsoft emailed me a code for MS Points that I could redeem to repurchase all my content on the new console. I had to create a new Gamertag for the console (I used my girlfriend's) since you can't repurchase content you already bought with the same tag.
The rep read off a list of all the things I'd downloaded, even hitting things I'd forgotten about, so clearly they have access to this information. He added up the point cost for all of them and I ended up with an extra 50 points for my trouble (because they sell points in multiples of 500).
I don't know why they didn't do this for you, seems like a simple, if round-about, process.
@Randy: I have a PS3 that I bought as a hi-def DVD player (I'm not a console gamer) and I poked around the net some while researching what to buy. It was highly recommended for the DVD purpose, and I didn't run across rampant complaints of bad hardware, either. Should be a safe buy.
@Razlo: You can get a 120GB hard drive...for $200, which is insane since I can pick up one brand new of the same size and type at Fry's for $59.99.
Microsoft has a great problem on their hands. All Xbox 360s will be replaced in the future at least once. The draconian DRM should push consumers not to buy anymore from the Marketplace. I may be wrong because I also thought the failure rate of the of system would lead to loss of sales.
PSN and Wii VC have a better system. Your account holds what you purchased not the hardware.
Also, if you think MS has the worst service ever, I guess you never had to deal with Sears.
@Crymson_77: Without showing a receipt at the door even!
Incidentally I have a replacement x-box and have had no issues with problems with pre-licensed video. I'm not certain which videos have or don't have a special serial-number specific drm though. I thought it was determined from the hard drive?
Oh, and another thing, the licensing agreement for several games on XBLA does not follow the terms of service that you agree to when you download the game. Certain games like Puzzle Quest and some of the Sega titles will not allow other users to play the game on your replaced console even when you are signed into Live.
It's somewhat of a different issue, but related to this DRM problem as well and something that I'm sure a lot of people are frustrated with.
I have also emailed Major Nelson about the problem, and while he provided a quick response, there was nothing he could really do since it's not really his department.
I'm on my 4th 360 and this has become a huge problem - I've bought a lot of games through Live only to find that I can't use the content anywhere that I'm not online. I brought the console over to play Rock Band at a friend's house and, lo and behold, the $35 worth of songs I bought couldn't be played. And lately, with Live being up and down so much I often can't access any of the 20-some games I've bought without being kicked out of them halfway through.
The BBB is a joke - they have no power and exist purely for companies to subscribe to to look more official, so you're wasting your time contacting them about anything. If you want to get something done, find a lawyer who'll take on Microsoft in a class-action suit. One that I will gladly be part of.
To all the people who are saying they should just refund the points, that is their exact policy.
The best way to get it is to tell the support rep to look up "MS POINTS AFTER REPAIR", the exact name of the relevant support document.
They'll give you the points value of your content on another profile of your choice (sometimes they may give you codes to redeem for the specific content).
The DRM is theoretically quite generous, but they didn't add anything to allow for people to move between consoles on a more permanent basis.
@Razlo if you have only ever had one console, you wont experience any issue if you go from a 20GB HDD to a 120GB HDD.
I picked up an Elite and purchased an Xbox live arcade game (Streets of Rage 2). I returned the xbox 2 days later and received a new one (it was my tv not the 1st Elite btw). Streets of Rage 2 would not allow me to play it unless I unlocked the game again, which I have to do each time I want to play it (not a huge deal just aggrivating). I have gotten the "two weeks call back" run around since late August 07 and even faxing of my receipt. They stopped calling me and I stopped calling them around 3 months ago. Out of the blue I got a got a call asking me what my serial# was for my current xbox (the same one they had on file) but they wouldn't tell me what for. Still not fixed. Over 6 months now. Only 1 game to fix. LOL!
@Contra666:
The refunding of points was their old policy. It changed late last year and everyone has been going through this headache. I specifically asked the Microsoft representative about refunding the points and was told on multiple occassions that they no longer do that since they have this "License Transfer" system in place.
I don't understand why businesses are so anal about their customer service these days - rather than having your customer wait months in agony so that their problem can be "properly resolved" wouldnt it just be easier to refund their money for an "instant resolve"? I think most customers would be more than happy to accept a refund for their defective product rather than waiting for ever to get it working properly again...
Wha? I had to replace a 360 and my arcade games work fine and dandy.
@iameleveneight:You can't just create virtual dollars,it could damage the virtual economy.
@MercuryPDX: PSN is great about downloadable games. You can download a game as much as you want on up to 5 different consoles.The potential of you breaking 5 PS3s is so low that it is never going to be an issue.
@MercuryPDX: I downloaded a few things fron the PS Store and then reformatted my HDD, then just redownloaded them. Pretty easy. Only thing though is I think your only allowed 5 downloads, and I let my friend borrow some. Hopefully I don't need 2-3 more downloads, haha.
But that of course would be my fault, not Sony's. Unless my system broke 5 times, that would be a whole different problem.
@dowingba:
Either:
A) Your machine was fixed, and not replaced
or
B) You are not trying to play them under a different gamer tag.
I have known of this for quite awhile, as I have had many replaced Xbox 360 consoles. Frankly, it sucks that I have to be sure to pay for broadband internet acess for the life of the console, just to play 16-bit era games I bought through the Live Arcade. I also can't take my 360 to my friend's shore house and play any of the arcade games.
I've complained, but they said there is nothing they can do.
If the only thing they CAN do is give me points to repurchase it under a new Live tag...I won't do it. I dont want to give up my gamer tag...and what happens when I have to replace THIS unit??
@LongDarkBlues: Stop buying Xbox 360s if they keep breaking.I only bought one SNES,PS1,PS2 and PS3. The only way Microsoft will change their policies is a loss of money.It is corporate culture.
Japanese companies do care about image and honor US companies only care about margins.Customer care takes a back set to shareholders and profits.
Ha, I'm in a similar situation as the guy in the article:
I have $145/11,400 points worth of stuff that I can't access unless I'm connected to Live. About 2 weeks ago I spent a total for 4 hours on the phone with numerous different customer service reps and even some of their superiors trying to get this issue resolved. I even had a conversation back and forth with Hyrb who fed me the same "we're working on making these types of situations more manageable but currently don't have a timeline for it" line that the other guy got.
The customer service people basically told me that they were capable of transferring the licenses, but in my case, they weren't at liberty to do so, so I was more or less S.O.L.
Don't tell me you can fix something and then tell me you're not going to. That's BS. This is getting ridiculous.
@jackal888 & @P-Sheddy: Thanks for the clarification. :)
Still, would you not prefer a "hard copy" though... or am I just showing my age here?
@dowingba: Unplug your internet connection, log into your gamer tag, then try and play them. It wont work.
@shipwreck: "It's Policy" is an excuse for "We don't give a shit" -- ironically there's an article on this site TODAY about how "them's fightin' words". Make YOUR policy "I won't stand for this crap" and fight, fight, fight!
Is it possible the call center employees (in India maybe?) have access to a pool of MS points but skim them for off-the-clock profit or fun, denying them to some of the customers? This could explain some of the lack of service.
They need to refund the credits. They can see his account history. Give him the credits and let me repurchase the content.
I gotta say that this sounds like more of a law suit situation than the hardware falure.
You buy a console, buy games to play. Get the console repaired under warranty, and then now have limited access to games you bought.
I could understand MS's defense if the units were exchanged in store, but this is something MS did to customers by sending them back different units.
Weird, because when i sent mine in and got back a different system, all i had to do was connect to live with my gamertag and all my stuff worked again, even when i'm offline.
my xbox just RRoD'd and I'm worried about this same issue when I get my replacement...