i wonder if they are taking it VERY SERIOUSLY?

wow, that's pretty much the exact thing you AREN'T supposed to do. It would be a shame if because this guy used less that scrupulous means to find this out, that his suit couldn't go forward.

But what matters is, Does he really suck?

sweet.

Well, that's pretty rude.

It's too bad they aren't taking it seriously!

haha, that guy from Best Buy is in BIG trouble. Why would anyone go and do something like that?

Hard to judge... But I'm going to go out on a limb and say that if the Best Buy guy was stupid enough to send that response to somebody simply because they made a convincing false e-mail, he is, in fact, the one who sucks.

Best Buy is screwed. No matter what happens, this will end badly for them. They will end up settling of course because an investigation will reveal that this has happened more then one time (obviously). The HR person will be fired, and she will of course say she did it because her supervisor told her, which she'll settle for a nice package out the door to keep quiet. This is bad, bad, bad.

Folks, I know it's easy to get worked up about Best Buy but you're missing the important question here - does he swallow?

Any HR person worth their weight would know not to document this type of thing. Worst case scenario, you verbally state that to the person, but never on the record.

As much as I agree with the idea behind the law...

What are you supposed to do as a company if the guy was just horrible? I mean, he's qualified on paper to do a job, but just doesn't have the drive to do it or worse? What if he was fired for sexually harassing employees, but that never went to criminal or civil court? I know there's an exception if they have been convicted of a crime... but seriously.

Then again, I guess companies just assume that if a "reference" given doesn't give a reply, that's essentially a negative comment.

"I shouldn't tell you this or we could be sued, but here it is in a traceable email." Sounds like Michael is not the only Best Buy employee to suck.

Owned

Yep its blatantly against New Jersey law. You can state you had issues with them, or they had a poor work record, but you cant say he sucked and you should not hire him. Its up to the employer to make that decision.

10 bucks says Best Buy settles before this even sees a courtroom and that woman is toast.

If this story is true then that HR employee is toast. Plus, how much money can this guy get from a lawsuit?

@Tux the Penguin:

You say that you would not hire him. You CANNOT be specific.

I realize this was a little over the top, but isn't that what references are for? Aren't you supposed to be able to check on someone's work history? When I worked for Target, we used to get tons of calls for former employees trying to get new jobs who used us as a reference.

@Tux the Penguin: As I said you can state your issues with them. So if they did suck your alowed to tell them exactly what issues you had. But you can NOT say stay away from them. The first part of the email was all that was needed to be legal

He is desperate for a job because supposedly his wife left him because he has no job. I would not touch him.

"Again, do not forward this email to anybody or say where you heard the info from because we were not allowed to give this info out, but I would hate you to get stuck with this guy!"

Everything here is what makes it completely illegal and the woman and best buy in DEEP legal shit. I would not be shocked if this guy gets a couple mil in punitive damage from this even though he is not asking for it.

Here in California the question is generally phrased "Would this employee be eligible for re-hire at your organization" or some such pussyfooted nonsense.

This happened to a family member of mine, only in a different industry. We were about to do something similar (call the company asking about the reference) when he got a job. Still, the way interviewers would abruptly stop talking to him was weird.

If you leave a company on bad terms, I'd recommend getting a friend to pretend to be a hiring company and find out what they say about you.

I don't even think you can say that. Pretty much the only thing you can say when a reference calls is "Yes that person worked here from xx/xx/xxxx to yy/yy/yyyy."

@RottNDude:

@blondegrlz: yes, but certain information is illegal, which the person knew and cited that info in the email.

@RottNDude: I shake my head in disbelief.

Can the prospective employer ask your previous one for your salary when calling for a reference?

@Tux the Penguin: A company I worked for would say "I'm sorry, but there's nothing I can comment on besides his starting and finishing salary, title, and length of employment." and HOPE that the hiring manager can read through the lines.

There's a couple services you can hire to check to see what kind of references your former employers are providing. I'm too lazy to find them for you right now though.

@DeeJayQueue: In Cali, you can state: Worked here from X date to X date.

Then, If they're smart, they'll say "is he elgible for re-hire". If you say yes, it's a good recommendation. if you say no, it's a bad recommendation.

If you say anything else, you just bought the guy a new maserati and enough blow to stop a snowplow.

Did I miss something? What's the point of getting references for a job applicant if the references arn't allowed to say anything bad about the person?

I always thought it was standard practice to ask a reference a) for permission and b) if they were going to give a positive referral BEFORE you started giving potential employers their phone numbers.

The big difference is whether you list Human Resources as your reference to your previous employment or whether you list a direct peer/supervisor contact. The actual peer can give real answers to questions, human resources may never other than the matter of fact ones already stated. However any person making the statements in that email have fully opened themselves up to slander, libel, etc.

Proof, yet AGAIN, that Best Buy is staffed by the idiocracy.

For the record, if you are ever checking a reference on a potential employee, here's the way to get the info you need: say "would you hire this person again?"

And the way to respond to that question if someone called you for reference and the answer is no is as follows: pause for a loooong time, *sigh,* and then say "Ummmmmm..." If the person doesn't just cut you off at that point, you can add "I'm not sure that I would."

Everyone wins. Except the bad employee.

What are the ramifications of this guy pretending to be from Target?

Best Buy is heinous and what they did is wrong. But do the ends justify the means? Bet this gets brought up in court....

Besides, there are companies out there that will call and check your past employment references and then report back to you so you will know in advance what's being said before you interview.

He got a pretty personal response from the one email he supposedly sent. I think he spent some time with back and forth emails before the HR person trusted him. Hmmm entrapment. Just a thought. I mean the guy prolly did suck and all but there is more to this than the one email exchange.

This law is so ridiculous I can't even stand it. I hired a guy two years ago, his reference said he did a good job, but didn't elaborate. He seemed qualifed, interviewed well, and generally impressed us. He turned out to be a complete faker, knew nothing about what he said he did, and absolutely refused to take direction. If anyone called me for a reference I would feel horrible NOT telling them about him. He's also suing us for discrimination. Thank goodness we documented his incompetence from day 1.

This is really too bad - this is exactly the sort of thing the next employer should know. If the guy is so bad that even Best Buy thinks he's bad I wouldn't want him either.

@mercurypdx: That's exactly right, let the fact that you won't praise him and can only give the "facts" on his employment serve as the non-recommendation. My experience is, if they liked you, they'll tell prospective employers that.

@mercurypdx: Yep, that's what I would do at my old job. If the person in question was a good employee, I would give a good recommendation, then transfer to HR. If the person was mediocre or bad, I would just transfer to HR.

@darkened: Oh, good call. In our employee reccord computer system there were dozens of codes for why someone left the company, but right at the top was "Rehire? Y/N"
Also, the internal Target email addresses aren't just bob@target.com, so unless Michael really did him homework, the Best Buy employee is an idiot for sending "secret" information to someone they didn't know.

@meeroom: I think the point of the law that others have referred to is that, in most states, you *can* talk about the person's job performance (i.e. "He was always late" or "He ate babies in his cubicle"), but you can't disclose personal information ("His wife left him.") or specifically advocate against hiring him ("He sucks." "Don't hire him.")

@JeffMc: If you have to list your previous employers on your resume, though, there's not really a way around giving out their phone numbers. That's not really a "reference," it's just something you have to do.

Dear Prospective employer-

I am writing in reply to your reference request for Ann McCafferty. I really shouldn't tell you this becasue Best Buyy cold get sued, but Ann sucked. she is desperate for a job becasue we canned her ass for being dumb enough to write a bad employee refeence in an email, can you beleive it? She, as an HR manager, should have known better but her suckage apperntly was far to great to overcome the urge.

Like I saif, you didn't hear this from me or Best Buy.

What the HR person did was totally illegal and Best Buy is definitely going to have to nail her to the wall on this.

On the other hand, how bad of an employee must Michael have been to warrant such an over-the-top bad reference. If McCafferty has even an iota of experience in any HR environment, she must've known what she was doing was gonna land her in major hot water if she got caught.

The fact that she was compelled to do it anyway speaks volumes. Sorry Michael, I hope you get as much as you can from BB because now that you've made this public, anyone who's reading this story is most definitely not going to hire you.

@meeroom: That's the other side of the lawsuits. When a competing company misrepresents their ex (and your soon-to-be) employee with glowing reviews, knowing full well they are incompetent and will take your company down from the inside.

A friend of mine had to fire someone because they were a bad employee, and shortly after he got a call about a reference for that person. He basically just answered every question he was asked with, "He had a nice smile."

@meeroom: Well if his reference said he did a good job, then there is nothing you can do, the reference sucked (or you guys did for not following up on other ones) not the law.

You can very well say someone was a poor employee thats perfectly legal (which is why you NEVER refer to a company who may not say nice things for you) what you can NOT say is "dont hire this guy" or give out info like his wife left him. That illegal not only in NJ but in most states.

That being said, it sounds like someone (ie you) didnt have your bullshit deflector on. Its very easy to figure out when someone is bullshitting their way through something, and someone knows what they are doing. Unfortunately from my experience most HR and hireing groups dont know which is which till I get them and shake my head at their incompetence.

@mercurypdx:

That is exactly right. He worked here from x-date to y-date, his title was xxxx, his final salary was $$$.

@mercurypdx:

That's not always the case. Some companies have a policy of only verifying that the employee worked there from a certain time to a certain time, and that's it. Basically so you can't fudge your service time with that company on your resume.

I have personally worked at a large company (but not a megacorporation) that did this. The reason was that HR was the only department authorized to deal with reference checks, and the company didn't want HR having to vouch for an employee's work. They would just look in the files and verify that yes, MercuryPDX worked for us from July 1997 to March 2005, that's that.

When I left that company, I made sure to get a hard-copy recommendation, on company letterhead, from my direct report. That way, my new employer could get the full story. A good idea for anyone, actually.