How hard is it to read the ingredients label? I was vegetarian for many years, and knew well enough to check for animal ingredients even if it wasn't obvious. I wonder if this guy knows where gelatin comes from...

I'm probably the only one who thinks that his serves that self-righteous vegetarian right ...

Eat meat. Meat gave us humans our big brains. Let us not try to reverse the process.

@radleyas: And besides, fat=flavor! :P

@radleyas: Right, because all vegetarians are self-righteous, right?

I've been a vegetarian for about 7 years, and I do it for my own personal health, and it has worked pretty well. It's not for everybody.

Not to sound insensitive or anything, but can you throw us that recipe?

Also, yeah... reading ingredients labels ought to be second nature to anyone on a special diet of ANY kind, but especially vegetarians, since gelatin or beef fat is injected into most processed foods.

Well, some coupons and a meatloaf recipe is still way better than a "sod-off broccoli boy"...

Reading ingredient labels is somewhat scary even for non-vegetarians. Look at what’s in carmine, a semi-common red food colouring, for instance. If you don’t mind eating crushed beetles, then it might not be a problem, but most people do.

@Tzepish:

Well, yes. You just proved my point :)

My Jew-fu is a little weak, but I never understood it as Kosher equals Vegetarian? Doesn't it just ensure that Meat and Dairy are not simultaneously present, but may be individually present? (in which case, neither is really vegetarian, right?)

@radleyas: NO. Don't encourage them. It leaves more delicious beef for the rest of us. :)

If you are a vegetarian and still eating processed crap like rice-a-roni, you're missing the point.

@radleyas: I’m scratching my head over this one. How?

@AstroPig7:

To which comment do you refer?

Come on, they go out of their way to give you a great response, yet you still ding them because their preprinted coupons happened to have a recipe for meatloaf. Are you also upset when you buy any vegetable product and it comes with serving suggestions that include any meat based product.

BTW - Meatloaf with oatmeal is great. I also add some homegrown sprouts a half can of V8 and some wasabi to mine.

@radleyas: Sorry, I was referring to the self-righteousness of the poster. If it’s because of the statement about vegetarianism not being for everyone, then I fail to see the self-righteousness. Skydiving isn’t for everyone, but stating this doesn’t make me self-righteous.

@AstroPig7:

It was the immediate attitude demonstrated. It seems to go hand in hand with not eating delicious, moist, tender meat.

This Jordan individual needs to educate himself if he intends to have a strict vegetarian diet.

If you are trying to maintain a strict policy of not ingesting meat/animal derived products (such as flavorings derived from meat), or be a vegetarian, if you will, then you should carefully inspect the packaging of all processed foods that you intend to eat. Chicken fat, and chicken broth are going to be common ingredients in prepared foods, packaged foods, pastas with sauces etc. even if they don't mention chicken anywhere. The flavor profiles that these companies are usually using are from recipes that also did not mention chicken, but often contained chicken broth as a flavoring.

You should NEVER assume that a non-vegetarian-labeled food is vegetarian just because the contents "seem" like they could be vegetarian to you. For instance, any refried bean can that is not labeled vegetarian probably contains lard. It is, after all, a traditional ingredient in refried beans.

A prominent example of this is that McDonald's french fries contain a flavor additive derived from beef. This is to make them taste a bit more like they did in the early '80s when the fries themselves were fried in beef tallow. It produced an exquisite french fry, but had enough saturated fat to kill you at 50 paces.

If you're trying to avoid beef products but not other meats (perhaps you are hindi, or for whatever reason), fast food is still a bad choice, because beef flavorings are often added to processed chicken, such as patties and nuggets.

The fact is, these foods are designed to appeal to us, and we are engineered to like the flavor of meat. Food manufactures will inject beef into a donut if it'll makes people eat more of it.

@radleyas: Ah, understood. We have to present some kind of haute couture, or people might get nosey and realize that we’re taking over.

@AstroPig7:

Unlikely, but I wish you well.

@radleyas: Hmm, so you complain about vegetarians being self-righteous, but then post the most self-righteous comments in the thread? Project much?

I thought the letter was more than just a keyword-driven response. It goes into detail as to what product line he may find more suited to his tastes and includes ways of easily determinging which ones may be vegetarian friendly, and he will be sent a coupon fo r said line. The recipe that was included was silly, but I'm not sure why it would leave a bad taste in his mouth. It wasn't meant to be insulting, it doesn't harm the OP in any way, and it might have even just been a mistake. For one meatloaf recipe to obviate what looks like a personalized, helpful letter seems like nitpicking.

@mercurypdx: Brief details of Kosher system (kashrut):

Parve: Essentially vegan, depending on your definition of vegan. In preparation has not come into contact with meat, dairy, or even pots/pans/surfaces/tools used to make meat or dairy, unless that container has been scorched ritually for like half an hour at 1300 degrees.

Milkig: May contain eggs, milk products, or fish, but no other meat. This explains lox and creamcheese bagels, or tuna sandwiches with a slice of cheese.

Fleishig: Contains meats, but does not contain anything from the milkig group.

Kosher already contains a very small subset of edible sea and land animals. Most shellfish, and any split-hoofed animal (i.e. pigs) is non-kosher. According to kashrut, no foods can contain simultaneously milkig and fleishig ingredients, or it is considered inedible.

@radleyas:

When McDonalds got rid of that Beef Tallow is when their fries started to suck. They have never been good since. Why is it that everything that tastes good is "bad" for you and everything that is healthy is nasty. Im sorry but I cant help if I dont like soy, whole grains, vegetables (except peas and corn), and fruit (except raspberries and cherries). What am I supposed to eat that is healthy.

@mercurypdx: If you read the letter, it explains that Kosher labels indicate if the product has meat or dairy products in them.

@ludwigk: Right, hence the separate dinnerware, stoves, cooking utensils, etc. for dairy and for meat.

"Parve" is a new one for me. Thanks :)

ahh just eat some meatloaf and quit complaining. Mamma Mia you don't like what you see on the label don't buy the product. Just cause you think its wacky vegitarian friendly doesn't mean it is.

@TulstinNative: Exactly, it pains me that almost every single flavor of Stove Top stuffing has chicken stock in it, but I live with it and find which of their products doesn't.

Oddly, "Stove Top Stuffing For Pork" is vegetarian out of the box.

@Miguel Valdespino: yes, that's what confused me. I thought Kosher meant either meat OR dairy, but NEVER both in the same dish. ludwigk cleared it up. :)

@mercurypdx: Their kosher products identify cearly on the package whether they contain meat, dairy, or neither, in order to help cooks prepare full meals that are also kosher. Basically, they have 'full disclosure' on the presence of meat/dairy.

So kosher != vegetarian, but kosher products that are marked as not having meat/dairy are effectively the same thing.

@ludwigk: The problem is that some vegetarian-labelled items aren't actually vegetarian-safe. Take for instance a certain brand of refried beans which carry a 'VEGETARIAN' label on them. Some poking and prodding later and the company admits that their supposed vegetarian refried beans aren't vegetarian safe. I think they've since corrected things but can't find any URLs so I'll let them remain unnamed.

While it may not be a big deal to some, religious people following a vegetarian diet may be horribly insulted, not let into heaven, frowned on by their local deity, etc. The point is that if it's advertised as being vegetarian, one would assume that it is actually vegetarian, not mostly vegetarian. Not to mention that trying to find the animal products used in meals, apart from the obvious meat, is fairly difficult and/or confusing -- did you know that sometimes "natural flavors" or "natural flavoring" means animal products, depending on the manufacturer?

As a side note, using 'manufacturer' for food kinda grossed me out a little bit.

Also loving the irony of 'self-righteous' vegetarians amidst the "delicious meat" comments.

::WTF:: Anyone on a special diet (and vegetarianism is a special diet) has the responsibility to look out for themselves first.

This whole story reminds me of pissing off several newly vegeterian friends-of-friends. I brought jello shots. They were a hit until I reminded them what gelatin was.

@DrGirlfriend: Agreed. The poster does a long way to further the "vegetarians are whiny prats" stereotype. Heck, I'm not even a vegetarian and found that response helpful.

I just find it a little odd that someone who's as conscious about what goes into his body as an avowed vegetarian is buying processed shit anyway. And Rice-a-Roni at that. That shit's gross.

God forbid Jordan go without the heavenly flavor of her three square meals of Rice-A-Roni a day.

@smith186: You know what gets me? Thai restaurants that label their menus with a "vegetarian" section, then fail to inform you, unless you specifically ask, that they all contain fish sauce or oyster sauce by default. I agree that we vegetarians ought to take care to check labels, but the fish/oyster-sauce thing is blatantly misleading. I've been to a Thai restaurant where they had a "vegetarian" section, and I asked if they could prepare anything without fish sauce; the only thing they could do was the plain steamed rice.

No sympathy here. Though I'm an omnivore, my wife's been vegetarian for 16 years (2 years before we met). I learned how to check ingredients labels within the first year of cooking for her. Making any sort of assumption about ingredients is definitely a no-no.

If you really want something to bitch about, complain about the lack of ingredients and calorie listings for fast food. It took several bad experiences with road-trip french fries before my wife figured out the problem: McDonalds blanches their potatoes in beef tallow. This isn't widely advertised and for someone who lacks the intestinal flora to digest beef (from not eating it for over a decade), it can be very uncomfortable.

Now if we're looking for a drive-through snack while driving up the coast, we know to be a bit more selective!

Being about 90% vegetarian myself (I have a vegetarian girlfriend) I can tell you that it's a pain to read labels of everything that's even mildly processed. That said, why is it that food manufacturers can cater to every fad diet that pops up with special "south beach diet" versions of things but they can't make a vegetarian version?

Now that the niceties are over, you wanna hear a self-righteous vegetarian @radleyas?

I don't only choose to not eat meat because it's better for me, or because I choose not to support the needless killing of animals. No, I don't eat meat because of the immense waste and pollution caused by the entire beef / chicken / etc industry. It takes somewhere between 600-1300 gallons of water just to produce a ¼ pound beef pattie (that includes the whole stream from cow to table, 600 is the low beef industry estimate, 1300 is the independent university estimate). Now consider all the grassland, grain feed, and all the manure (releasing methane gas which is worse than CO2 for greenhouse effects) produced along the way. Then consider the burden on our health care system due to lifelong heavy meat eaters and their clogged arteries, etc.
So no, I'm not choosing be vegetarian because I think I'm better than you. I'm a vegetarian because I'm so freakin' selfless that I want to try to save your ass from a little bit of the wrath that the meat industry brings upon us all. It's all I can do to save the ignorant like your self. And I'll keep on doing it, even if you mock me at every dinner table and supermarket.

/rant

You don't win friends with salad!
You don't win friends with salad!

^^^ hey vegetarians, LOSERS ARENT CHOOSERS.
At least beer is vegetarian, right?

@snwbrder0721: My view is that while most people won't give up meat completely (myself included, unfortunately), if everyone cut down significantly we'd get the same beneficial effect. I try to avoid meat at home and in meals where it is not necessary (e.g., who needs meat in a noodle dish). If people kept meats for special occasions, and not have it as a daily staple of their diet, everyone would benefit.

Honestly, how difficult is it to look at the ingredients list? With the exception of gelatin and that red extract from beetles, most ingredients have a name that relates them to animals.

And if you can't find anything, go with food that is Kosher Parve. That means it has no animal products whatsoever (though it could have certain fish byproducts).

This is rediculous. My brother is a vegitarian and reads labels thoughouly.

If a product is mass marketed packaged food he pretty much just assumes it has animal products in it and doesn't buy it. No need to read the ingredients.

Even if there weren't meat products in rice-a-roni it still probably wouldn't be good for you!

If you are looking for a good vegitarian substitute for a pilaf (rice-a-roni) I would look at the "Near East" line of packaged rice pilafs.