And lets not forget that Paramount is only in as they got a cash payment, to do so.

Blu-ray has won and IMO it was all about who had better branding.

Say the words "blue ray" and "HD DVD" out loud. Blu-ray just sounds cooler.

Yes, I will buy movies on disks because you don't get captions with downloads. Enough said.

I'm a Trek fan though. So I need a dual-format player. But where are the $500 ones?

@dix99: So did Warner.

@KashmirKong: "HD DVD" also does a better job of explaining what the new format IS.

Don't forget Sony in the Blu-Ray camp, as well as MGM since their video releases are handled by Fox. And New Line via Warner. It's all over but the crying.

I have a PS3 so Blu-Ray is what I have to buy. So far, so great.

@Buran: That's messed up. I mean, that captions can't be transmitted with digital downloads.

@Buran:
Seconded. I'd buy a dual-format player in a heartbeat if I could get one for less than $1,000. I really want something that will do 1080p (I've got an LCD TV that will support it). However, I'm not willing to pick a side and I'm not willing to pay $1k for a dual-format, so as it stands, I'm sticking with my old Sony DVD player.

You forgot a major player in the Blu-ray camp. Sony Pictures, which also has Columbia/Tristar and MGM.

Now this war can end and HD DVD can go the way of Beta...

As Nick_R points out you have forgotton MGM, New Line & Sony on the Blu-Ray side. Blu-Ray now have exclusivity on 70% of all movies and its now only a matter of time before Paramount and Universal defect.

You forgot a major player in both camps: normal DVD.

Now this war can end and HD DVD and Blu Ray can both go the way of SACD and Sony's proprietary digital audio tape standard from the 70s...

Oh man, i guess my $100 hd dvd player is now going to spontaneously combust.

And there's more:

I believe Apple will be offering Blu-ray drives on their desktops as an option next year. And Panasonic will be releasing BD drives that conform to the current form factor for laptop optical drives. So it will be easier for computer manufacturers to offer BD drives on their laptops, and it will allow current laptop users an easy upgrade path.

I also think Blu-ray is winning. Not only because of content, but because there's are more manufacturers developing hardware for it.

home BD players: Sony, Samsung, LG, Pioneer, Panasonic, Lite-On, PS3, a few more Asian brands.

computer BD drives/burners: Sony, Lite-On, LG

home HD-DVD players: Toshiba, Xbox add-on

computer HD-DVD drives/burners: Toshiba (not released yet)

@cwalters: They can be. Technically. But no one does it, which makes all the hype about digital stuff worthless. That, and I'm a Mac user; most of the stuff out there doesn't work on Macs. Fortunately, iTunes now supports closed captioning -- but has anyone found something that has them? (if so, what?)

@hapless: I'm using normal DVD for now since it looks good enough but once the dust settles or once someone starts putting out sub-$500 dualformat players, I'm going to upgrade. I have an HDTV and there's a definite difference even between 480i and 720p; 1080i is far, far better. CSI Miami and Jeopardy are both strikingly better-looking in 1080 res, and a lot of that is due to the much-better color gamut HDTV has. Look at the same two shows in SD and there's no contest; they look blurry and washed out.

@Buran: Actually you can get captions for your downloaded movies. Takes a bit more searching and a media player that supports it but it's hardly more effort. In fact, you can probably just download DVD images of the movies you want and burn your own copies.

I agree with you though... HD-DVD sounds better than Blu-Ray. I'm still sticking with traditional DVD with an upconverter.

Doh! Just got an hd-dvd player for xmas. Oh well at least it only cost 120 bucks and is an excellent upconverting dvd player.

@Buran: Actually, a great deal of anime and "foreign" movies are often embedded with caption streams. It's a little tedious to do, but there's no technical reason why downloads don't have them.

@hapless: You have obviously not seen how nice Blu-ray looks over normal DVD. Even with upscanning, there is no competition...

I understand wanting to get a dual player, but for less than 1000 dollars you can buy both. You can even get the PS3, which currently costs more than the regular Blu Ray players.

This is the route I went. I own both BluRay and HD-DVD. PS3 Blu-Ray is the better of the two for my money. The upconversion seems to be cleaner too (but that may just be the player I have).

I don't care who wins. I just want a winner so I can watch Conan the Barbarian in 7.1, 1080p glory.

You guys seem to forget that the real winner in this war is still regular old DVDs, lol. HD formats account for like...5% of the market. So yay for being the winner of the losers I guess!

I've got an HD-DVD player...the thing I like about HD-DVD better than Bluray is that the HD-DVD player will play and upscale regular DVDs...the Bluray players can't do that. *shrug*

I never could understand the HD disc wars.

HD-DVD and BluRay movies costs the same at the store right? BUT the big justification for HD-DVD was lower costs of production since they used existing dvd production lines and theoretically these lower costs were to be passed to the consumer, right?

Did these savings ever appear? No.

So if we assume that Blu-ray is entirely new and technically superior to HD-DVD - can someone explain to me why I should buy and pay the same amount of money for an HD-DVD format movie vs. the Blu-Ray counterpart?

No fanboism at all - just dollars and cents.

Why pay the same amount of money for "Evolutionary" tech when you can get "Revolutionary" tech?

Or is there something about HD-DVD that I have just plain missed - outside of the exclusive movie deals they have with NBC / Universal & Paramount?

HD format war:

I really felt that BD was going to win this, simply because their similarities are such that where one pulled ahead technically, people would clamor for it. BD offered almost everything HD-DVD did, but with twice the disc capacity. It's really a no-brainer, esp. when you consider MORE than just movies. These drives will make it to / are in Computers. Computer peeps (myself included) want as much storage as possible. BD wins that hands-down, so it seemed to logically follow that BD would eventually come out ahead in the movie wars, too.

Oh, and I disagree on the branding. I think "HD-DVD" is far more recognizable and better marketed to the "normies." In fact, when the players were FINALLY released onto the market, that fact alone had me fearing that the "VHS" of the battle would win again....

Dual-Format Players --
Sucky deal. Cheaper to buy two, and you get a better experience. both HD-DVD & BD players offer up to 7.1 surround and other extras. All the Dual players I've seen seem to limit playback to 5.1 and lack some other key features, as well.

IF you just HAVE to play both, do yourself the favor of saving a buck whilst getting a better set of players. ALSO, keep in mind that Paramount & NBC will have to come around eventually, and they'll bring their libraries with them.... meaning dual-format players will be obsoleted too. Just wait until your titles are available in BD format. That's what I'm doing. A say a year from now, that'll be the reality.

This sucks because HD-DVD has the clear edge in video quality, and blu-ray wins for audio.

This is because of the codecs used in each format, HD-DVD uses a custom codec from Microsoft which in all honesty is amazing, Warner always used this codec on HD-DVD and because MS did not license it to Sony...it cannot be used for Blu-Ray.

I have players for both formats but this pisses me off because I'd rather own a movie on HD-DVD because of the video.

I just dont get it. HD-DVD was catching up. Movie sales have been great, player sales in are very good. HD-DVD players outsell blu-ray in the US..so this is very strange.

Man, I still haven't made the switch from VHS to DVD yet -- not entirely, anyway. I plan to stick with DVD at least until I have to replace my current TV with an HD model, and even then I'm not sure I'll really care to replace my favorite movies again. Hopefully DVDs won't become as obsolete as VHS is right now for a good long time.

Raziya...

Sony makes a very good Blu-ray player that upscales. It's called a PS3. Might I also add, it does so very nicely.

That plus a Netflix subscription and I'm set. when Blu-ray is available for a movie I want, I order Blu-ray, when it's not, I do DVD and upscale it.

Really impressive to see the studio list. I had no idea the format war was tipping so strongly. I've just been upset and not being able to get Transformers.

Overall, studio support, and from a previous poster the number of hardware developers will win this battle for Blu-ray.

For whatever reason, possibly because I own the HD DVD add-on for my 360, I've got a sinking feeling about HD DVD. It never ceases to amaze me that the studios learned nothing from VHS/Betamax; why not invest more effort in negotiation than going to format war?

Regardless, I'm not too sore if HD DVD loses; it's not like I have to give back the movies I already own and my HD DVD player doesn't take up much space next to my 360.

As someone else mentioned, by the time this silly format war is settled digital delivery of movies is going to take hold and in a few years it may all be moot.

As soon as I can "rent" a HD movie on-demand from a set top box (or via iTunes, or whatnot) that will be about the last time I bother to go and rent a physical disc from a rental store.

At that point, the market for HDDVD or Blue Ray (whatever wins) will be relegated increasingly to a data storage medium, and with the crashing prices of large format HD's, even that future seems limited.

Let them fight it out because I think the general public still doesn't give a rat's petoot about either one. If it weren't for the fact that Blu-ray capacity comes with the Playstation 3, the sales would be even more dismal for both formats than they already are. No one cares except the electronic and me first geeks.

I can't think of too many people who thinks the jump is that great as to start replacing their film collections once again. The VHS to DVD quality jump was huge. So when Disney and WB starts quadruple dipping their libraries once again, count me out.

If and when I do buy either format, it'll only be when the prices dip down to about a hundred to a hundred twenty five bucks which is approximately when DVD sales started to take off.

Considering this is the Consumerist, I'm surprised more people aren't discussing the sad parts of this, i.e. HD-DVD being more consumer friendly, and this being kind of a blow to consumers.

I'm kinda sad about this, but my HD-DVDs will still work, I've got a great upscaling DVD player out of the deal, and hopefully a few more movies worth having will come out. Eventually, we'll get a PS3, and have a Blu-Ray player. Until then, I'm happy with DVD, and whatever comes out on HD-DVD.

@parad0x360: Most of the new flms use the same codec though I thought... AVC/MPEG4 or VC-1. Both formats have the same codecs, but obviously with HD DVD's capacity you might need to squeeze the bits more.

I really was cheering on Blu-Ray for its technical specifications, but now that this has all but won the war for the BD camp, I can't help but to feel a bit sad that Sony (the evil monopolist) got the upper hand.

@cwalters:

It isn't that you can't get them. Downloaded movies can include multiple audio tracks, multiple angles, multiple subtitle languages - it depends entirely on the content provider.

@Shadowfire:

I've tried, and I've all but given up. It is becomeing more and more obvious that most people don't give a rat's ass about giving up all of their rights.

The part that people seem to fail on consistently is when you tell them that Blu-Ray will *only* give you HD content if your player *AND EVERY SINGLE COMPONENT OF YOUR HOME THEATER SYSTEM DOWN TO YOUR SPEAKERS* is compliant with the copy protection used.

A major group was left out here. Isn;t much of the porn industry going HD-DVD?

@goodkitty:

Which technical specifications were you cheering on? The ones that impose draconian restrictions on how, when, where, and on what *brand* of devices you can use *YOUR PROPERTY* that *YOU HAVE PURCHASED*?

@sonichghog:

With luck, that'll be the tipping point. Porn drives technology.

One major reason for the failure of Betamax was that Sony refused to license it to any porn studios.

Of course, the porn industry is far more progressive than any of the others - they're already deep in digital downloads and on-demand streaming, and most of the studios even have their entire back-catalog available for download. I doubt they *really* have a dog in this fight.

@SOhp101: I have no interest in wasting my time searching for subtitle files that probably don't exist. It's gotta be included with the media.

@Buran:

SRTs are available for 99.99999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999% of the movies available. The only films which you might not find them for are ones starring Mssr. Chaplin.

@Buran:

There're a good 330k subtitles available here, even:

[www.opensubtitles.com]

@Buran: you aren't looking hard enough

@ A LOT OF RESPONSES:

One thing many people wrongly assume is that digital downloads will make the disc go the way of the Dodo bird in the very near future.

I'd like to say that I certainly hope that's the case.

But at this point in time, if you read any networking trade publications you'd realise that bandwidth on the Internet is becoming increasingly scarce. And that's the current incarnation of the thing; flooded with measly, low-bandwidth you-tube-style streaming videos and low-resolution compressed audio (shall we forget to mention porn, spam and virii), not on-demand HD video downloads.

With a 9 minute Ratatouille 1080p trailer/preview coming in at 700MB, digital High-Def content delivery is a long way off, especially if the ISPs and bandwidth providers don't start bulking up their pipes ASAP. (Pause to think that a similarly compressed film that has a running time of 1hr 30mins, will take up about 7GB of space/bandwidth.)

While the apple certainly is there for the picking, it's a lot harder than just reaching out for it. We have a pretty tall ladder to climb - bandwidth, storage and distribution wise. Hopefully the fruit will ripen as we ascend.

Has anyone heard anything (good or bad) about LG's dual format pc drive (GGC-H20L)? I'll assume a decent video card with HDMI would pair well with this.

Blue Ray is the winning battle of a failed concept. And it will fail because eventually, the draconian DRM/Hardware requirements will overwhelm. Not just in economic terms, but technical challenges as well. Think of the nonsense they tried on us with HDMI. And that's JUST a cable.

@CumaeanSibyl: When we switched from VHS to DVD, we really had to re-buy or abandon the tapes... after DVD, VHS is pretty unwatchable.

The new HD formats aren't the same leap, this isn't a re-run. Upscaled DVDs look pretty damn nice, frankly they are very competitive with the next gen HD discs. Outside of Star Wars / Trek / Matrix / Lord of the Rings, replacing a DVD with an HD disc would be stupid.

Keep all your DVDs, don't replace 'em. When you buy a new movie, you just look for the HD version first.

OK. I just want to give a few opinions as a television professional in the business for almost 20 years. Everybody just slow down. Remember the VHS/Betamax wars? Who won? The format with the porno industry behind it. More people buy porno for their home than regular releases. Moving on; the most important thing about this war that I can say is if you don't have a 1080P television, Blu-Ray is a waste of your money. 1080i television must convert 1080P to 1080i in order for you to view on your 1080i HDTV. Even more important is the fact that- as a professional editor I have a hard time telling the difference between HD DVD and Blu-ray. So if you are actually looking for an opinion as to which is better I would say that Blu-Ray is better, BUT only from a technical point of view. I would be surprised if anyone (TV professional OR NOT) could tell the difference between the 2 formats. Yes, some people are right this is a moot point, one day all of TV will be "on demand", but not so soon that if you bought a HD DVD player it would be a waste of your money. Looking at the past and comparing the storage and bandwidth capacities it becomes obvious that one day 7GB of space/bandwidth will not be a tenth of the demand there is now. So forget about Blu ray you don't need the extra zing, in fact you couldn't see it if you tried.

@dialing_wand: Some more focused publications (and my own belief) show that the issue is more with bandwidth to the consumer, not so much the backbone(s) of the internet. With the amount of fiber running the backbones, most of the time it takes relatively simple equipment upgrades and sometimes lighting up new strands, and capacity can be dramatically increased. On the to the home side, expect for providers doing fiber to the home (or at least to the curb/apartment/etc but not neighborhood), they will be able to increase capacity to keep up (ie Verizon FIOS in the US), but those relying on DSL and Cable (ie basically everyone else in the US, especially DSL) are likely to run into capacity bottlenecks in the not too distant future, and this is where the real problem will show up (especially for AT&T).

On the format war, my thought has been that it will largely be over if and when someone manages to come out with a dual format player that is both inexpensive and works well. Most consumers don't care about the individual formats, just how good it looks, what the audio is like (at the level of what HD-DVD and Blu-Ray provide), but they do care about cost and ease of use. My thought has been that it may end somewhat like the +/- standards (just on a different scale with potentially different implications), where there was a lot of confusion and lack of purchasing when the formats were separate, but will become largely a non-issue once both can be handled easily.

@adrocks: I doubt porn alone is gonna do it this time. As already mentioned, they're really doing a lot of streaming, online, and on-demand content these days.... and THAT is even hurting because of the rise of free sites like youporn.