Consumerist
Do you know the one thing to never say to a customer service rep if you're late on your bill? Do you know how Chase ranks you, and how you're ranked determines whether they help you out in a bind? Do you know the best way to get what you want from customer service? After you read these 10 confessions from a Chase customer service rep, you will.
"HOW WE RANK CARDMEMBERS
There are 3 levels of cardmembers at Chase. They are segregated as BEST, VALUABLE, or NON-PROFIT.
10. BEST
cardmembers make up a small minority of the people at Chase. If I talk to 100 people in a day, maybe 5 are best cardmembers. If you're a Best cardmember, pretty much anything you want to gets done. You want a late fee taken off? Done. Don't feel like paying $200 in finance charges? No problem. How do you achieve Best cardmember status? You either have to move a lot of money through the bank, (we can tell if you have a mortgage, car loan, etc thru Chase), or have a high balance that you're paying a good amount of interest on. If you generate enough fee revenue from finance charges, say $100 per month, and you want a late fee taken off, no problem, we'll take $39 off this month to make you happy and make sure that $100 monthly keeps rolling in.
9. VALUABLE
cardmembers make up the majority of people we talk to. Valuable basically means you pay your bills on time, and are in general a good customer. You can get a fee waived also, but not nearly as often. I don't mind waiving a late fee for you, but usually only every 6 months. Thats standard, but we can base our judgment on it all the way back to a year. And if I remove a late fee for you, dont think you're getting anything waived in the foreseeable future.
8. NON-PROFIT
These are the cardmembers who know what they're doing. They're the group of people that pay their bill off, in full, every month, like clockwork. They don't pay finance charges, and they're never late. They don't go over their credit line, they don't have returned payments, and they earn rewards. Which all amounts to the bank isn't making any money on your account. So if you get a late fee, you have absolutely zero chance of getting it waived. That late fee is revenue for the bank, and it uses it to offset the maintenance on your account. Maintenance includes your statements mailed to you, sending you replacement cards, dealing with customer service, and cashing out rewards point / miles / dollars. For this cardmember, if you threaten to close your account if we don't do what you want, don't be surprised to get an offer to close your account during that phone call. Why? What is the incentive to keep you? I know its pretty cold hearted, but thats exactly how it works. You do a great job on your account, but you can get punished. Hey, I don't make the rules, I just enforce them.
HOW TO GET WHAT YOU WANT FROM CUSTOMER SERVICE
7. I WILL GO TO BAT FOR YOU IF YOU TREAT ME LIKE A HUMAN
First and foremost, remember we are people. If you're the type of person who calls up and rants and rave with a "you better do this or else" attitude, honestly, it's just going to turn a service rep off. Remember, we talk to a hundred people a day, 5 days a week. Its a thankless job, and in there somewhere, I'm cursed at, yelled, spoken down to, please God knows what else. Think about it like this....are you more likely to want to help someone treating you like a human being, or someone who is degrading you? It's only natural.
I've waived significant amounts of money off of accounts if I feel its deserved, I've reduced APR's, I've contacted credit bureau's to get your record fixed, I've deferred your payment to next month, I've done a lot of things. But the one constant, I've only done this for people who have been pleasant with me on the phone, and in layman's terms, haven't been a douchebag.
6. STATE WHAT YOU WOULD LIKE DONE AT THE BEGINNING OF THE CALL
I understand its human nature to explain why you're payment showed up late, how you're a good customer, this has never happened before, etc, but if you just tell me you want a late fee waived, I'll immediately look at the account and decide if you're eligible. To us, it doesn't matter if you forgot to mail the check, were on vacation, your boss didn't pay you, bottom line, you want a late fee waived, I'm gonna judge you on our ratings system and check to make sure you haven't had other fees waived recently.
5. YOU ARE NOT A UNIQUE SNOWFLAKE
I've taken thousands of calls, and I've encountered every possible situation. The earlier you tell me what you would like your end result to be, the earlier you can get your matter resolved. Screaming at me does you know good, and honestly, makes me want to help you less.
COMMON SCENARIOS I ENCOUNTER
4. DON'T SAY "MY PAYMENT WAS LATE BECAUSE I DIDN'T GET MY STATEMENT"
Please please, don't tell me this. This is the worst excuse ever. While I dont doubt that some people somehow legitimately didn't get their bill, for the most part, its a lie to cover up the fact you didnt make your payment on time. Hmm, for the past 5 years you've always gotten a statement to the correct address on file, but the one month you're late it didn't show up. Right. Somehow, whenever the car payment or the mortgage is due, people never forget that, even without a paper reminder.
3. WATCH YOUR CREDIT LIMIT
Going overlimit- Its your responsibility to watch out where your credit line is. If you really don't ever wanna go over your credit line, but a block on it. We do let cards go over a little bit, just in case you're in a situation where you really need it. Imagine these scenarios. Imagine you're in a restaurant, and you go to pay the bill. Would you rather be declined and be embarrassed in front of your friends and family, or have it go through and pay the $39 fee. Or, imagine you're stuck on the side of the road and need a tow truck. Do you want the charge to go through so you can get out of the cold, or do you want it declined and sit there shivering for hours? We'll allow the card to go over, but usually not more than $100.
2. READ YOUR CONTRACT
Not being aware of fees, or APR's- Everything on your card is agreed upon when you accept the card. The Cardmember Agreement basically states that the bank has the right to change your limit at any time, change your apr, or close your account, no reason needed. That agreement basically leaves the bank holding all the cards. The one constant I see is people never ever read the agreement, then are surprised by things later. Please, read it, or at least call customer service and ask any questions you need answered.
1. IF YOU DON'T NEED IT, DON'T BUY IT
The only other advice I have for people with credit cards....get ahold of your spending. I can't tell you how many people I see every day who are absolutely drowning in debt. I get so many people making minimum payments, never getting ahead on their balance, or people just playing the balance transfer game to move their balance to a lower rate card, but they've moved that balance 10 times and it's still not paid off. If you use credit cards wisely, you can make the bank work for you, but instead, we see banks with profits in the billions of dollars every year."
(Photo: meghannmarco)
Comments
whoa. awesome post. i am such a non-profit!
haha me too! Cheers!
I'm a non-profit, too. If I had a credit card and a car loan through the same bank, would I get better treatment?
Your logic on #4 is dumb and most people don't realize that stating "I didn't get my statement" is an automatic fix for your account. At Macy's if you stated that then your late fee and finance charge were removed as legit no questions asked. You have to factor in that your statements go through a 3rd party called the USPS and they lose shit all the time.
So, this is basically the same as most of the other call center confessions, I suppose. Don't yell at me, and unless you're a profitable customer, don't expect much. Fantastic.
I want to know how to get my interest rate lowered without being tricked into signing up for a bogus "zero interest" program that turns out to be a "wallet protection" program when you receive the paper work in the mail.
Ha. I have a name now: non-profit. I'm also glad to have my gut feeling confirmed--I always kind of figured that since the only thing Chase gets out of me is a monthly payment of my balance in full that they wouldn't exactly be jumping up and down to do me a bunch of special favors. It also explains why they tried to scam the shit out of me when I had to activate my new Amazon Visa last month. I swear the agent had been instructed to go for 5 no's for their bullshit credit monitoring subscription service. They kept my (also non-profit) husband on the phone for 10 minutes activating a goddamned card.
Which is why I am moving my non-profit husband and myself over to Amex.
On #4, I'm sure the vast majority of people are lying idiots - but fact of the matter is that USPS loses stuff ALL THE TIME.
It's also worth pointing out that shady companies (Bank of America, I'm eyeing you suspiciously) are fond of doing things like changing your payment due date without changing the date they mail your statements. For 10 years, my BofA card payments have been due on the 20th of the month. After going a couple years without any significant activity (ie becoming a non-profit customer), I charged up a couple large items to take advantage of warranty extensions. Lo and behold, I received my statement on the 5th of the month, only to find that my payment due date was now on the 10th (with two non-business days in between). I called and asked why my due date had changed ("idunno"), and whether it was standard practice to change the due date such that my grace period was essentially a couple of days ("idunno"). I didn't bother informing the CSR, but I can promise you that I have used that particular credit card for the last time. It's not a stretch to imagine that if this had happened to coincide with some slow deliveries by USPS, I would (really) not have received a statement before my payment was due...
If the CSR is reading these comments, how do I get Chase Freedom to stop pestering me about their buyer protection program? I'm not interested, and I get a stupid letter about every two weeks and/or a phone call about it.
@FitJulie: If it weren't for my (excellent, competent, and respectful) credit union, I'd be there with you already. A couple hundred bucks in annual fees really doesn't seem like a high price to pay in order to be treated like something other than a shitbag.
Why are people so surprised that credit card companies like to make money? How many businesses keep customers around that they lose money on (and frankly, if you pay your bill in full every month they are losing money on you)? It's a business, not a charity organization.
I mean if I owned a restaurant and someone came in every day and sat around and drank water, never ordering anything or tipping, I'd get rid of that person, they're not even really a customer.
What is the difference, if there even is one, between being a "good consumer" and a "good customer"?
"8. NON-PROFIT"
What a load of BS. The bank is most definitely making money off your account. Why would they keep you as a customer if they were not? They are not obligated to keep you.
The fact is the bank is making money each time you make a transaction. Those fees each business pays to accept credit cards goes to VISA/MC and to your bank.
If I am not profitable, then why is Chase sending me post cards with reminders of my rewards plan and lists of merchants where I can get special deals if I use my Chase card?
I've had to use the "MY PAYMENT WAS LATE BECAUSE I DIDN'T GET MY STATEMENT" accuse before, 3 times, all of them true.
The reason people don't forget the car or house payment is that it comes on a set date of the month. The 1st, the 15th, the 23rd, etc. But credit cards usually don't, and are a 30-day or so cycle. This means that due day keeps inching up on you. So, it is quite possible to have not gotten a statement, make a payment that month anyway, and still have made that payment late. Especially in March, where I've had to make two payments in that month due to a 28-day February.
"Imagine you're in a restaurant, and you go to pay the bill. Would you rather be declined and be embarrassed in front of your friends and family, or have it go through and pay the $39 fee?"
Oh man, that would almost be as bad as holding everyone in line up by paying with a check! Thank God for credit cards and the companies that issue them!
@DallasDMD:
You are absolutely right about the "non-profit's": it's complete BS.
For every $100 you buy, the bank keeps about $4 and gives the other $96 to the merchant, so even if you don't pay any interest and are never late, they are still making a lot of money on you (it works about to $1000 / year for a $2000 / month bill).
Always bear that in mind when you talk to your credit card company.
Only time I've ver gotten nasty with anyone at a credit card customer service call center was with an Indian guy that called me a liar.
I had signed up for on-line statements, but didn't realize that it meant on-line ONLY, that I wouldn't get a bill in the mail.
I was, in all honesty, negligent for not checking that e-mail account, but when I called and said I wasn't getting a bill in the mail, no one ever checked to see if my signing up for on-line billing had stopped the paper bill, which would have ended the confusion. Instead he insisted that the blls were being mailed and I just wasn't paying them. I closed the account and transfered the balance to a 0% balance transfer offer with another card.
But I just got a $39 over limit fee taken off yesterday. Went over when I didn't realize there was a purchase limit using my debit card. Despite having plenty of cash in my checking account, my debit card was denied trying to buy appliances for my new house.
The first person I spoke to wouldn't remove it, but then I escalated and the 2nd person took it off in 2 seconds. I don't understand why the first person I spoke to wasn't empowered to do this?.
"I WILL GO TO BAT FOR YOU IF YOU TREAT ME LIKE A HUMAN"
I will continue to treat you like the faceless, interchangeable cog in the Chase machine that you are because
"YOU ARE NOT A UNIQUE SNOWFLAKE"
@kJeff: Make money by providing a valuable service I'm willing to pay for - that's great for me and great for you.
Don't make money by trying to fuck me over at every chance you get. What are you, an MBA working for Chase or something?
"5. YOU ARE NOT A UNIQUE SNOWFLAKE" Me thinks the CSR is channeling Tyler Durden there... "Listen up, maggots. You are not special. You are not a beautiful or unique snowflake. You're the same decaying organic matter as everything else."
To Chase, the 3 categories are really this:
OBSCENELY IN DEBT WE LOVE YOU
A LITTLE BIT IN DEBT WE LIKE YOU
NOT IN DEBT TO US FUCK YOU
You could also just get 3 credit cards with a $10,000 limit and max one out. Then when the bill comes you pay then entire balance with the second card. Then when the bill for the second card comes you pay it off with the 3rd card. When that bill comes, pay it in full with the first card. This way you never pay for the $10,000 worth of stuff and pay no finance charges because youre paying the balance in full every month :)
"8. NON-PROFIT"
That's me. But my wife and I charge almost everything over $10 -- that's a lot of transaction fees!
I'll see if I can get the fees waved for our latest snafu -- my wife entered the on-line bank payment for our last bill to be payed on 12/30/2008 (should have been 2007!). But she caught it, set it up to pay today, and called the credit card company.
What good does reading the contract do other than to let you know explicitly how the bank is going to screw you? It's a take it or leave it contract, and CC companies know that your choices with other providers are almost identically restricted. Until either per-person contract alterations are allowed for, or CC contracts are forced by law to put the customer on equal footing then you're left with only one option if you don't like the terms: don't use credit cards. Yes, I know you can get by without them, and I did for a long time, none at all through college. But unless you're a trust fund baby then you NEED to establish a credit history in the US and CCs are an easy way to do so. Plus they can be handy in emergencies.
And as for the "convenient" $39 fee to avoid embarrassment or worse, how about simply allowing people to go over the ARBITRARY credit ceiling by $100 or so for free before cutting them off. Or even better make this costly "perk" opt-in only.
I'm glad the Chase rep shared this info with us but most of it is sounds like a defense of corporate greed. Oh, and way to provide different levels of service based on personal feelings. In a pissy mood? Guess no one gets any useful help. Thanks, btw, where in your job description does it tell you to deny service based on how you feel about the caller?
DallasDMD:
Exactly right. Of course they're still making money from you, in the form of merchant transaction fees. The way to be a valuable customer in the eyes of a credit card issuer is to spend a lot of money on the card, whether or not you carry a balance. The rewards/cashback are written-off marketing expenses anyways.
Methinks the alleged CSR "confessions" aren't what they seem.
I used to work in-branch for Bank One before they became Chase and can tell you that these are all 100% true. We could actually tell down to the penny how much per year we made on your account. That was one of the major factors we used to determine fee refunds.
Banks are a for-profit business and it shouldn't be any surprise that they're going to do things to keep their profitable customers around.
Another thing I'd add to this list is that a customer service rep will be much more accommodating to you if you actually balance your checkbook. I remember being reamed out one day by a woman who overdrew her account and didn't feel it was necessary to keep a register. She did *not* get any fees refunded to her that day. I would always give a college kid with a new account their first overdraft back and give them Mookie's "Balancing Your Checkbook 101" class. I had a soft spot for them.
I very much agree with #10, I get fantastic service from Wachovia (which holds a mortgage on my primary home, a mortgage on an investment property, 4 checking accounts, 1 savings account and a past car loan).
Just want to agree with a few of the above posters that, yes, the USPS sometimes really does lose your mail. (In these glorious days of online billing, I don't know that it's really much of an *excuse*, but it's not necessarily a *lie*.)
My delivery problems went away when I invested in a PO Box. And, even more magically, I could get stuff reliably delivered to my house when we got a new mailman.
I just had the worse CSR experience with Citicards (not Chase, but this is an opportunity to rant).
#1.) I had a $0 balance. Then I booked a flight for $900.
#2.) On my last day in Madrid, I discovered that I was two days late on the balance of the charge. No problem, I simply paid by phone with a payment linked to my checking account.
#3.) 24 hours passed. The Charge still had not cleared. I was having to check out of the hotel the next morning, so I called CapOne to ask them to pre-approve this charge. (So I wasn't standing at the hotel desk at 5 a.m. not able to check out because the card was blocked.)
#4.) I wasn't being a"unique snowflake". In fact I was very non-plussed because I thought it would be easy -- after all I actually OVER-PAID, the charge was set to clear sometime the next morning (but probably after the time I needed to check out of the hotel).
#5.) The CSR woman float-out refused to approve any such thing, and actually at one point got irate and said "well, you owe us $900 so regardless of the circumstances you need to pay that!"
I was livid. It was an absolute outrage that the CSR refused to pre-approve a charge form a card member that was carrying a ZERO BALANCE until I bought that plane ticket. All I needed was a couple of hours pre-approval because it took more than 24 hours for CapOne to register my payment I made by phone (paying a $15 fee for an "expedited" payment by phone).
When the CSR said finally she was going to hang up on me because there was nothing else to say I couldn't help but call her a "company whore" as she was hanging up. But I had been very patient with what I thought was a perfectly reasonable request.
I lucked out because I had "accidentally packed another credit card (also with zero balance) -- otherwise I woudl have missed my flight waiting for CapOne (over 24 hours) to clear my "expedited payment by phone.
And the most annoying thing about all of this is that my FICO SCORE would be adversely affected if I decided that because of the absolutely outrageous treatment by Citicards to cancel my account with Citicards I would be penalized for cancelling a credit card (is if the onl reason why you would do that is because you're bad with credit -- it would NEVER have to do with bad service).
Whenever I think about how that CSR rep screwed me over I get really pissed off, because I know they have the power to pre-approve these charges. It was a completely arbitrary decision by this woman to dick me over. As far as she knows I missed my flight because she wouldn't approve that charge -- keep in mind I had a zeero balanace, had been a customer of Citicrds for years, was two days late but had made a charge over the phone that the CSR rep admitted she saw on my account (but it had not cleared) and STILL the bitch refused to pre-approve a $300 charge.
As far as I'm concerned I wish nothign but the worst on credit card companies. I hope every defaults on the debt they've been doling out like porridge for years. This system needs to collapse because it treats people like me (who carry zero balances but don;t use the cards that much, either) like dog crap and gives out way too much unsecured debt to people who carry balanced precisely because they make more money off them. They can lose me as a customer because I actually handle credit relatively responsibly (esp. compared to the average American), so why would they do me any "favors"? Assholes!
Er, ignore CapOne. This story above refers to Citicards.
So, basically, I'm only a good customer if Chase is making money of my debt hand-over-fist? What if I have $100K in checking/savings but pay off my credit card in full every month? Am I still "unworthy" of the CSR's respect?
Attention CSRs, the most important part of your job is in your job title - Customer Service. Quit whining or get another job if you can't do that.
/rant off (and so happy I got out of banking years ago)
@randotheking:
The logic isn't dumb, it's the Customer's resonsibility to pay the bill, even if it didn't arrive on time.
Your logic is dumb though..."I never received a bill so I don't have to pay."
Please...
@DallasDMD:
Exactly. As long as you use the card, they make some money. And at the old MBNA they were allowed to waive fees for non-profits. My dad had to work 3 hrs a month as a CSR for being a VP. I don't know about BofA.
Everyone ripping on the non-profit, would you feel better if it was called "small profit"?
The point is not that "they make (absolutely) no money" but rather that compared to the other two categories your business is useless. For every responsible non-profit customer there are TONS more valuable and best customers out there to take your place. And guess what, they're also getting those peoples merchant fees!
Look at the big picture.
@cmdr.sass: FTW!
Good post. Thanks for sharing. I'm a hard-core non-profit myself, and Chase seems to really love me (in terms of credit limits), but I've always wondered what they would think of me if I asked for something else. Good to know about their system, and what I might expect!
Who translated the original message from Hindi? Never have contacted anyone from that bank who wasn't based in India.
"We do let cards go over a little bit, just in case you're in a situation where you really need it. Imagine these scenarios. Imagine you're in a restaurant, and you go to pay the bill. Would you rather be declined and be embarrassed in front of your friends and family, or have it go through and pay the $39 fee."
This is ridiculous. Of course I want it to decline, as I DON'T HAVE THE MONEY. This is the same argument for overdraft fees, which turns 3 $5 purchases into a -$100 nightmare.
@mgyqmb: Agreed. I carry more than one card anyway. If I am over my limit on one credit card, I'd rather be declined and give the cashier my emergency/backup credit card than have to incur obscene over-the-limit fees.
Getting declined is no big deal.
MARIALLENA & DallasDMD:
Where do the transaction fees really go? I've been under the impression MC/Visa keep those and the issuer banks keep the service fees and interest earned.
I'm not saying they are great companies to do business with, or they aren't making a dime. Every time they send out a statement and process the check you send it gotta cost them a couple bucks.
Chase (incidently) pissed me off a few years back. I paid my bill off, and added a buck just so they'd have to send me a credit balance statement for a few months. Six months later they send me a check for the dollar credit balance. That day I used the card again, and did the same thing. I had to have cost them $40 by the end of the year.
And hello- how do we think AMEX makes its money, if you are supposed to pay your bill in full each month? The small fee we pay a year certainly is not that much incentive for them... FEES people!
As a side note- even though most are credit card haters- AMEX has been great to us, they handle incorrect billings etc like pros ( not their faults), and never leave us hanging... and we have had many free airplane tickets on their rewards program.
@full.tang.halo:
Tyler Durden came to mind for me too. What a great movie!
@DallasDMD:
100% agree with you. There's a reason that my company doesn't take CC's: the roughly 3% transaction fee they charge us for the privilege. Whether the Chase insider likes it or not, they're making plenty of money on us.
I guess people don't even realize that CC transaction fees are already built into almost every price you see when you shop. I would gladly pay cash if I had the option of getting a cash price for goods. But, since this isn't the case, I might as well earn my Amazon rewards money...
I guess the most important rule to CSRs is STILL NOT BEING TAUGHT/TRAINED:
Retain the customer at any expense to prevent negative
and long lasting ill effects against our brand.
In the age of the internet, customer satisfaction and retention are extremely important these days.
Boy am I glad I don't use Credit Cards, I'd lose my patience real quick with a CSR like this.