(ashi)
A reader writes in about her frustrating experiences trying to get hired at a JC Penney salon. She spoke to her prospective boss and got the impression that she would be good to go, but the automated application system keeps throwing her curveballs.
She describes her roundabout journey:
1. Applied online. Answered lot of strange questions, but I answered them honestly.2. Went in to salon with resume and spoke with the salon manager. He stated had not received my online application please check on it and call him. I need someone and you seem to be a good fit for the job. “You look like and seem to be the type of person I am looking for”.
3. Go back online a try to re apply. System tells me I can’t apply for 173 days.
4. Call JCP salon manager Still could not see my online application. Asked me to
come into the kiosk and apply again. ( This kiosk is just outside the door of the salon). At the end once again it told me you must wait a total of 171 days to apply again! Salon manager talked to someone in back office. ” You failed our online test!You can not retake this test for 171 days! Not only can you not work at the salon, you can’t work anywhere for JCP!” What? Am I an idiot? I did not think this to be the case but, computers don’t make mistakes…right? Still confused!!! The salon manager went above and beyond to try to help. He next went to the store manager who said “sorry I used to be able to override this but they took that away from us.” You might try contacting the home office in WACO TEXAS. He meant for me to check with Waco, not the JCP store.
This is insane! Clearly the salon manager wanted to offer me a position. But, I am done in by some crazy HR program which apparently has pegged me as what? An idiot, a serial killer, too smart to work for JCP etc…..
I checked online, too late for me, and found blogs on how to pass these online tests…. the main point “don’t be honest, tell them what they want to hear!” One of the sites was written by the person who either created or helped create the test!
Help, I am stuck in computer lunacy! Guess I could just sign up for welfare….or does that have a test also?
If a computer has ever blocked you from working somewhere, tell us about your battle.
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This is a pretty common problem, I had the same issue several years back with a Staples which wanted to hire me, but according to the auto-test I wasn’t social enough. You really do need to lie on these things.
These tests are all about what the employer wants in an employee personality-wise, so I don’t see it as lying. Instead, I just show them that I know how they would want me to react to particular situations. I know I can put on that persona for my job, and then be me after hours.
Lying on these things is a horrible idea. If you answer honestly and the computer rejects you, it obviously means you’re not a fit for the job. If you lie with your answers, you may get hired in, but you’re either not going to last very long or you’re going to be wildly unhappy the majority of your time there.
These “tests” may seem like a bunch of bullcrap, but they’re pretty decent and do have a pretty wide margin of error in favor of the applicant where if the applicant is borderline, the management/HR team should be able to make that decision during the interview process.
if you lie, then at least they know you can pretend to be who they want you to be. Which honestly, who acts like themselves when working/dealing with a customer 100% of the time?
No, lying on these is a great idea. Some of these ask you if you’d turn in a family member if you found them stealing a $10 item. If you say no, your application is automatically rejected – and they even twist it to make it a moral argument. You didn’t stand by your principles.
Makes me think of this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WOdjCb4LwQY
“Lying on these things is a horrible idea. If you answer honestly and the computer rejects you, it obviously means you’re not a fit for the job. If you lie with your answers, you may get hired in, but you’re either not going to last very long or you’re going to be wildly unhappy the majority of your time there.
These “tests” may seem like a bunch of bullcrap, but they’re pretty decent and do have a pretty wide margin of error in favor of the applicant where if the applicant is borderline, the management/HR team should be able to make that decision during the interview process.”
Pretty much everything about this is wrong. If you want the job, lie. If you don’t, don’t apply. “Personality tests” are pseudoscience, plain and simple.
Maybe it’s a blessing in disguise. Do you really want to work for people that are too stupid to know when to listen to a machine and when not to?
I agree 100%! These people are idiots, and you will no doubt do better someplace else.
Yes indeed.
Or did you *want* to be a corporate tool?
Going out on a limb here, but the OP probably doesn’t want to be a corporate tool. She probably wants to be a stylist and/or find a job that will reward her time and labor with popular, spendable cash!
Going out on a limb here, but the OP probably doesn’t want to be a corporate tool. She probably wants to be a stylist and/or find a job that will reward her time and labor with popular, spendable cash!
You mean “Do you really want to be able to pay your rent and buy food”? I’m gonna guess the answer is “yes, holy goddess yes!”.
No. I mean do you really want to work for people that brainless. Unless JCP has all of a sudden become the only place in the cosmos to work.. the OP has other options. I’m so sorry I’m not worthy of your sense of grandeur.
Believe it or not in some places in this country the answer is “yes”. For her JCPenneys may have been the only place that would hire her soon enough for her to earn enough money to live on this month and until the economy improves in about 5 years, give or take 50 years.
I would not want to work for a company that does things this way.
I wouldn’t either, but there are always times when we don’t have the luxury of making a job-related choice based on our convictions.
The way things are going, you won’t have much choice, its becoming the standard thing, stupid and disgusting as it is.
“Applied online. Answered lot of strange questions, but I answered them honestly”
Thats the problem, she answered them honestly.
When they ask the question: How much did you steal from your last employer without getting caught, you shouldn’t pick D). More than $50,000.
D’oh! Theres the mistake.
The question is more like this:
You find out that a coworker has been stealing blocks of cheese to feed their starving family for the past month. Would you:
a) a talk to them about it
b) do nothing, because I work in the hair salon and don’t really care about cheese
c) rat them out to their boss
The correct answer for the test is clearly c, but the honest, real world answer is probably not c.
See my comment below, the questions aren’t even close to being as clear as your example. They are designed to find people who would make good corporate cogs, I say this as a former Target manager. It’s really an awful practice most big companies use for their bottom tier employees, I’d be amazed if the CEOs could pass the tests.
Why? I bet a lot of CEOs are great at lying.
I’m super sure they are, but again it’s not about honesty it’s about compliant workers bees. Workers who don’t question, workers who don’t organize (as in unions, class-action suits etc) It’s about a “yes man” culture.
I think you meant a “Yes, sir!” culture.
These tests are also used as an end-run around the Americans with Disabilities Act. For example, people with Asperger Syndrome are more likely to have a certain answer profile than others. Actually, supposedly even people with certain physical disorders are too.
I think you’re reading too much in. They do screen out antisocial introverts who aren’t good at customer-facing positions, but they’re not singling out autistics.
I would rat them out, but not to the store. I would tell child protective services. That 100% cheese diet is very unhealthy. They should be stealing some healthier food for their family.
Agreed. Eating only cheese is also going to create some serious issues on the back end.
I would talk to them about it, but only to say that I won’t rat them out as long as I get a cut of the cheese.
d) I’m a rat, I’d steal the cheese back from them?
The correct answer is “mmm cheese.”
I would point them in the direction of the massive government cheese caves that were recently discovered by the Wall Street Journal.
Not that recently, “Government Cheese” was being distributed to welfare recipients in the 1980s.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Government_cheese
You can thank the terrorist group SLA for that.
Common sense says you should never admit to covering up theft by yourself or a friend. If you are willing to steal or hid someone else’s theft you are a risk and the employer has the right to rescind an offer.
This might imply that the OP is a thief. I do not know the OP and I assume they are not a willing participant in theft or covering up someone else’s theft. This is just an example of what common sense should tell you when taking these personality tests prior to employment.
But if you have to resort to using google to pass a test of this nature you should seriously consider adjusting your moral compass. Too many people including myself at times make decisions based on this is what everyone else does. Yeah that’s right I am not perfect either.
Have you taken one of these? The questions aren’t really black and white like “have you ever stolen?” – they’re much more vague, and sometimes the way the question looks is not exactly what the company is looking for – it’s hard to explain how companies frame these kinds of tests.
I’ve taken different versions of this test many times and the answers are as follows:
1) Never admit to stealing, borrowing, bending or breaking any rules, coming back late from break, punching in/out early or late, punching in/out for anyone. You’re perfect.
2) You will immediately report anyone who does any of these things, no matter what.
Yes, everyone knows its a lie, and you’d think they’d call people out for cheating, but that’s how you pass. It’s not like psych exams where they have tests to try to see if you’re gaming the system.
However, you can’t toe the line too severely because then it thinks you’re lying and rejects you for that. I tried to work for Blockbuster when I was a kid in Christian school and was genuinely a goody two shoes. The test rejected me for that. lol.
“However, you can’t toe the line too severely because then it thinks you’re lying and rejects you for that.”
I worked for Bennigans and helped administer the same test, watched a bunch of people fail. What you say is absolutely not true. It wants PERFECT candidates. Tell them everything they want to hear. Toe the line 100%.
I’ve never taken a test like that, could you post an example?
This is my personal favorite:
“It’s maddening when courts let criminals go free! Agree/disagree on a four point scale.”
How do you know it was about stealing? And not something weird like the OP states? …
It’s much easier to fail on the socializing part of those tests by answering honestly than the stealing stuff. There is a ton of questions on how well you tolerate coworkers.
I was trying my best not to come off like a complete ass. Yes I understand that these are not easy to take. I do think the more common sense you have the easier they are to take. And I have never given any thought to the social component. But I totally doubt the OP failed on something as simple as stealing. The social argument is actually interesting.
For the record I have passed these tests before but than I failed a simple physical because while I could easily lift 40 lbs over my head my pulse was to fast and as a result I didn’t get that job.
You are coming off like a complete ass.. You did not take the test the OP took, have no business commenting on it, claiming it takes common sense answers.
My GF took a test repeatedly for a grocery store, so did her employment coach and several others. All failed. The retarded thing was that the test allowed for retests, so they were able to, after many attempts, able to figure out what the employer was looking for, but there was nothing ‘common sense’ about the ‘right’ answers..
Perhaps it was a cognition test. Are you intelligent enough to deduce the correct answers after taking in numerous times? etc…
I took that stupid test, and you allmost have to have help to pass. A couple of the questions were about things that were probably in the company handbook/policy. How the F should I know what that says? I. Don’t. Work. There. Yet.!!
I remember one question asking about what you should do with an upset customer. Some of the answers were things like: apologize politely, ask another employee what to do, contact a supervisor, and a couple more choices.
There were also questions about if you like to work in groups, or if you like working alone.
Its a personality test. We use them to screen candidates, as has several other companies I have worked for (typically in the retail sector, my current company started using it becasue we started going through a hiring agency)
Basically, its a corporate thing. If the test says no, then the hiring manager probabaly cant hire you without special permission. I dont put much faith in those tests though. I took one as the baseline for the company I currently workfor, while the test is 100 accurate based on the answers given, it is easy to lie on. I have taken several tests in the past and have always gotten the job becasue I just lied through it. On this one, I was honest and it said I am a highly motivated and driven person but am not friendly, nor am I approachable, etc. Basically, hard worker, not a people person. This is 100 percent true, and would have excluded me from any retail postion ever had I been honest on the test in the past.
In my opinon, me being able to fake out the test means i can probabaly lie my way through customer interaction if I wanted to, and i have proven this to be true as well. I can fake caring about what people are saying if I choose to.
How can the tests be “100 percent accurate”?
Because if you can fake your way through it, then you can fake caring about the customer when handling customer service issues. Didn’t you read before hitting reply?
If a Scotsman fails the test, he’s not a Scotsman.
I have to agree. I used used such tests in the hiring process and found they told me to NOT hire some people who have been outstanding employees when I went with my gut and ignored the test. They really should only be used as one piece of the overall picture.
Online applications have taken many qualified prospective hires out of the running. Some tests ask just the stupidest questions you can imagine.
WTF do they need my social security number online? If I pass your stinking test, THEN request my SS#.
They probably ask for the SSN so that nobody can retake the test pretending to be a different person before they should be able to.
Is there no other way to do it but SS number?
“Don’t give your SS # online” is one of the basic rules of internet security.
as someone who works in web development and once wrote a job application suite, the short answer is no.
we used SSN as the unique identifier for a person, and a number of our customers contacted us to change it to email address or any number of things, and when we explained to the customer that they would need to deal with the duplicate applications in the system, 100 times out of 100, they decided to keep SSN.
I’m sure that is the reason. I had the opportunity to have nearly unlimited number of SSN’s but at the time thought, “Why would I need it”. So now I only have one spare.
What annoys me is that they’ll ask you for your social a good 5+ times during the same questionnaire too. Ugh, redundancy.
She took a computer generated personality test and failed. I hate those things, but in this case it weeded out someone to dumb to figure out what was going on, so it did it’s job.
Sorry, she was “too” dumb, not “to” dumb. How high does your I.Q. have to be to work at a JC Penney’s hair salon?
But it isn’t an IQ test. It’s most likely a test to gauge customer service traits the company finds important. If the OP came off as overly introverted, overly extroverted, or excessively something else. These tests, IMO, have very little to do with IQ or competency.
Thank you. I agree that IQ is not what these tests gauge, unless we are talking about applicants being intuitive enough to tailor answers in order to pass the assessment. That would take a certain type of intelligence.
Thank you SteveDave – it’s called “lielligence”.
+1
Using a computer to test people skills is great because we all know how good computers are at customer service! I can’t wait for my next phone tree adventure =) /sarc
These dumb personality tests have become very common for companies to use so that they don’t have to use much thought in their hiring practices. It’s too bad that the company had the ability to override the system but is now unable to. I don’t know what companies would take away hiring power from their local stores when the people working there would have a better idea of who would work well than a computer.
“…don’t have to use much thought…”
I think they use them for a combination of factors. It’s a way of filtering through thousands of very similar applications. It’s also an objective means (however flawed) of rating prospects and by minimizing subjectivity of reviewers, they also minimize potential EEOC issues.
Ironically, Best Buy does the same thing. I worked with them last year after passing the online screening. I went back to apply for seasonal, and there was a new, shorter, version. I failed it, even though I played the ‘right’ cards by answering everything right. And sadly, they cannot override it because it tosses the applications in the ‘no’ pile.
They can probably tell you’re faking if you pick all the right answers. Have to mix it up a bit and pick some of the moderately good answers, except on things like theft and sexual harassment.
My experience is that you can’t be too perfect on these tests but maybe they’ve changed since I’ve done them (late 90′s).
“They can probably tell you’re faking if you pick all the right answers.”
No, they can’t.
“Have to mix it up a bit and pick some of the moderately good answers, “
No, you shouldn’t.
I wish they would just tell you failed. I applied to Best Buy and then showed up for onsite interviews and then waited two hours to be called into a back room and told that I didn’t pass the stupid test. I was livid. I even told the little punk teenage hiring manager (yes they were 19 year old hiring managers!) that it was absurd. Glad I didn’t get hired there
You mean ‘coincidentally’ not ‘ironic’.
Irony:
the use of words to convey a meaning that is the opposite of its literal meaning.
Coincidence:
a striking occurrence of two or more events at one time apparently by mere chance.
In most cases, you can tell what they’re looking for. Lie and get hired.
This was my downfall. I thought for sure they were checking to see if you were honest, and that answering the ‘perfect” answer to all of the questions would peg me as a liar/weasel and I’d fail. Whoops.
most of those questions a simple test that see if your the type of person that will represent the company well (do you have the social skills/reasoning to not give the company a bad name). Of course everyone wants to tell a snarky customer to go to hell, but if you answer that question honestly in those tests, you wont have much luck passing.
my opinion: the OP needs to accept that her views/attitudes werent inline with JCP. (and if youre not smart enough to recognize what they are looking for by the questions on the test, maybe you shouldnt be working there).
From what I’ve been told- tell them what they want, and don’t be wishy-washy.
Extreme YES or extreme NO, and be the perfect employee- never steal, never late, never sick.
That’s my understanding as well. Also, add that you’ll report any wrongdoing, no matter what.
You always know to worry when taking these tests once you see something along the lines of, “even if no answer seems right choose the one that is closest to right”. The fact that you have to choose an answer for a question like
I hurt small animals
A. only at night
B. Three times a week
C. every day
D. once every two weeks
has always seemed absurd. I understand that they are trying to filter the applicants but I don’t think the tests do a good job.
My dad always referred to this type of question as Have you stopped beating your wife? Yes or No.
You do realize that “failing” means that you said that you would, or have stolen something, or that you would (ever) or have hit or yelled at someone? Would you tell a potential employer either of those things in an interview? The test is there because those are awkward questions, and if you failed it’s not because you aren’t “social” enough. It’s because you are not the kind of person that a company would want to hire.
Also, don’t you watch House? Everybody lies. Except you, apparently.
Not necessarily. I failed one of those tests once because the I gave an incorrect answer to a hypothetical question where they wanted me to say I’d rat out a stealing coworker. The honest answer to that question, for me, anyway, is that it depends on the situation. The answer they want is a 100% definitive ratting out.
I was in high school at the time, and it’s probably for the best that I didn’t get the job at KFC. The experience was good, though, because I had the same test a couple of years later for a job I actually wanted, and I passed it with flying colors the second time around.
That’s interesting, because I once lost out on a job the one time I had to take one of these (and failed), and yet every other employer I’ve worked with has loved me and begged me to stay when I left.
Clearly these other employers never noticed that you were robbing them blind.
No, it depends on what type of test you are taking. I think you’re thinking of an integrity test; a passing score on a personality test is heavily dependent upon how social the test thinks you are (especially if you’re applying in retail). A good third or more of the questions on those types of test are generally going to be ones like: I like to be in the middle of large crowds (agree or disagree); I am always the life of the party; I prefer to work in a team rather than by myself; etc.
“too smart to work for JCP”
That is definitely not her problem.
This makes me believe there is a new term: Liered.
It’s when you have to lie on a survey/test in order to get hired.
It’s a test of your internet pressence. Tech savvy people would have looked up how to pass before taking the exam.
Sounds about right to me. Google, people. It’s not that hard.
When I was in school and getting entry level work a lot of jobs had these. My experience was that for the most part they were just 50 different versions of “is it okay to steal from your employer and be rude to customers” I always thought they were really easy to answer.
even if you answer correctly, they still might not even know about it. I went to an interview at macy’s and the manager didn’t even know i was scheduled, and the “test” results weren’t even forwarded to him. needless to say i didn’t get the job, even though the computer said they were hiring, he wasn’t hiring, or so he said. I live in a town where 90% of the jobs require an online screening test, and despite taking all the tests several times in the last 2 yeas, i’ve yet to land ANY job….i hate this city…moscow idaho sucks
I took the Best Buy test and passed for cashier but failed for manager. My Dad failed, my Mom failed, my husband failed, the manager at BB who was trying to hire me (for management) also failed. Finally my bff took it for me and passed.
here are but a few of the 100 questions. You are to answer strongly disagree, disagree, agree or strongly agree.
You love to listen to people talk about themselves
You make more sensible choices than careless ones
You rarely act without thinking
You think of yourself as being very sensible
You try to sense what others are thinking and feeling
You were absent very few days from high school
You work best at a slow but steady speed
You would rather work on a team than by yourself
SA
Your friends and family approve of the things you do
Your moods are steady from day to day
It bothers you a long time when someone is unfair to you
It bothers you when you have to obey a lot of rules
It is hard to really care about work when the job is boring
Many people cannot be trusted
Other people’s feelings are their own business
SD
People are often mean to you
SD
People do a lot of annoying things
People do a lot of things that make you angry
People who talk all the time are annoying
People’s feelings are sometimes hurt by what you say
Right now, you care more about having fun than being serious at school or work
Slow people make you impatient
There are some people you really can’t stand
There’s no use having close friends; they always let you down
When people make mistakes, you correct them
When you are annoyed with something, you say so
When you need to, you take it easy at work
You are a fairly private person
You are more relaxed than strict about finishing things on time
You are not afraid to tell someone off
You are not interested in your friends’ problems
You are unsure of what to say when you meet someone
You are unsure of yourself with new people
You change from felling happy to sad without any reason
You could not deal with difficult people all day
You criticize people when they deserve it
You do not like small talk
You do not like to meet new people
You do not like to take orders
You do some things that upset people
You do what you want, no matter what others think
You don’t act polite when you don’t want to
You don’t believe a lot of what people say
You don’t care if you offend people
You don’t care what people think of you
you don’t work hard because it doesn’t pay off anyway
You don’t worry about making a good impression
You get angry more often that nervous
These test diagnose people with a computer program. Judging by those who pass, I’m happy to be in the non-passing category.
Those are the same exact questions that Albertsons Grocery Store has. I applied for a stocker. Haven’t heard anything back yet.
Someone told me you have to strongly agree or disagree on everything, they don’t like people who answer in the middle because it means they don’t have conviction or some BS like that
There are NO shades of grey in corporate culture.
Its kind of funny how so many people that fail later say that they’re glad they failed. If you really didn’t want the job then you wouldn’t have applied in the first place.
Wrong. Perhaps I wanted the job, but didn’t want it once I realise what they wanted.
Getting a job is a two way street. You should fit them and they should fit you. I may think I like the employer, but when they start asking me if I smoke at home, I know there is going to be a problem.
From a statistics view you could even argue that these tests hurt. The talented theives and sociopaths will know the correct answers to the questions. If you have a 1/3 distribution each of either 1. good employees, 2. talented thieves and sociopaths, and 3. poor liars and thieves and don’t screen you would end up with 40% good and 60% bad of mixed talent employees. Whereas if you screen, you could end up with 50% good and 50% talented thieves and sociopaths and I think the 50/50 mix would cause more damage since the problem employees and thieves would be harder to spot
replace ‘talented thieves’ with ‘common sense individuals’, and you make a good point.
It doesn’t take ‘talent’ to realize that they wont hire someone who admits to stealing, not caring, and other workplace faux paus.
I have over 30 years of experience working in jobs that require high levels of technical competency, literacy, and management ability. The last 10 years have been with Fortune 500 and Fortune 100 companies. But layoffs happened several times, and now when I try to apply for positions with several contracting agencies, I am automatically rejected because I don’t have a college degree. Forget the years of experience working with people with Master’s degrees and Ph.Ds and no one being able to detect that I didn’t have that meaningless piece of paper.
I also tried to get a PMP certification, and was told that with all of my years of experience as a manager, some at pretty high levels, I should be a shoo in. Not so. Because I had no degree, they required 6 years of management experience out of the last 7 years; graduates were only required to have 4 years. After the dot-bomb bust, my area was struck particularly hard, and I was out of a job (“overqualified”) for 14 months, and then had to take nonmanagerial contract work for another year while the economy recovered. So I had only 5 of 7 years, and I wasted the $800 I spent on the PMP course. I’m more qualified and experienced BY FAR than many PMPs I’ve had to work with, but I can’t have that piece of paper either.
I went out and started my own business and to H.E.doublehockeysticks with employers.
“Forget the years of experience working with people with Master’s degrees and Ph.Ds and no one being able to detect that I didn’t have that meaningless piece of paper.”
Well really it does not seem so meaningless anymore does it?
computers don’t make mistakes…right?
I don’t consider Consumerist to be a “humor” site, but this was the best laugh I’ve had all day.
I’ve always been of the mind that Computers Don’t Make Mistakes, it’s the information put INTO the computers that make the mistakes.
I actually saw a verifiable computer make a mistake once. Suspect a gamma ray hit one of the memory cells. I had programmed the computer to print out a specific string 33 times, about the seventh time, it twiddled a bit for the remainder of outputs. This same program + computer + printer had run the same program for years and this only happened once.
A friend was once presented with a phone test. This was many yeas ago, so the test is likely more sophisticated now. She typed in a bogus SSN, took the test once, and then with the questions in hand, she took it a second time with her actual SSN. (The back-end obviously was using SSNs to allow the store managers to retrieve results.)
Speaking from the HR manager perspective – people fail those tests for a reason… just sayin’.
People fail because the test is poorly designed? Or because the test was designed to be used for something different than what the “HR professionals” are using it for? Or what?
I’m just sayin’.
Well two kinds of people pass theses tests:
1. People who have never done anything wrong and are super-extroverts. These people will be an asset to the store, I suppose.
2. People who, upon intuiting what they believe their employer wants from them, are willing to bend the truth to themselves or others in order to deliver. These people are also very valuable to an employer.
“2. People who, upon intuiting what they believe their employer wants from them, are willing to bend the truth to themselves or others in order to deliver. These people are also very valuable to an employer.”
Especially the ones that involve customer-facing and sales, which is to say nearly every one of the jobs that they use these for.
People fail the tests if they are honest
People pass the tests if they lie
Usually these type of tests are created by non qualified people
Remember these points the next time you do an intake on a new employee, most likely that employee lied their ass off to get the job.
Do you like trusting liars with your money/important documents?
“Remember these points the next time you do an intake on a new employee, most likely that employee lied their ass off to get the job.
Do you like trusting liars with your money/important documents?”
As much as I dislike the tests, don’t be an ass. Nobody’s lying about qualifications, they’re lying about whether they meet a bullshit set of behavior patterns developed by an industrial psychology dropout.
Yes, the reason being that they are not, by nature, perfect corporate drones. If they happen to prefer working alone rather than in a team, if they do not enjoy going to parties and being amongst large crowds, if they feel they have any sort of leadership capabilities, etc., and they answer these questions honestly, THAT is why they fail the test. The people who pass the tests are the people who either ARE, by nature, perfect corporate drones, and as such probably not very intelligent or creative or useful, or people who have taken enough of these things to figure them out and who know when and how to lie. So the people who do get hired are either complete morons or resourceful liars.
These tests are generally based on the Five Factor Model of Personality, a psychological model of personality that is about as useful as phrenology. It is based on condensing down all of the complexities of human personality into five basic traits, which were essentially determined by looking at how many synonyms there were for various words (in English) and determining that the more synonyms a word had, the more important it was as a defining characteristic of humanity. Wikipedia has a decent overview. The point is, it’s all pseudoscience and nonsense. You could just as well give a test entitled “Which Twilight Character Are You?” which only passed people who most resembled sexy werewolves and it would do about as much for your workforce as the bullshit they’re using now.
I am often mistaken for a sexy werewolf.
But I have no use for a job. Just bananas.
I had a guy on my team that was a wolf, years ago. He didn’t speak much and howled all the time. Typical of what we got from Manpower.
I don’t think JCPenny, Target, or Sears really needs someone who is particularly “intelligent and creative” to stack boxes in the back room and put the size 10 pumps beneath the size 9.
It’s called unskilled labor for a reason. If you want a job where you can be intelligent and creative, don’t apply to big corporations.
Whenever I hear about these ridiculous pre-employment tests, I always wonder how much of it has to do with the fear of discrimination lawsuits. The big companies find that it’s cheaper to suck out any subjectivity from the hiring process because it’s easier to defend some well established HR software (that’s probably insured from the company that made it) than it is to defend a potentially racist or sexist manager?
And yet, the test could be horribly racist itself. It sounds like it is racist to me.
I’ve never heard of anyone passing these tests who answers honestly. When I used to work at Best Buy, who uses a similar sort of test, it was common knowledge among the employees that you only got hired if you answered “Strongly Agree” or “Strongly Disagree” on most if not all the questions. On some questions this is easy, like the one ones where it is asking about stealing etc. But for the ones like “I always finish what I’m working on first, even if I have to delay other duties to achieve it,” things can get less clear. It really depends on the job as to how most people would answer that question, but the test wants “Strongly agree” or “Strongly disagree.” On those questions I always figured they were then looking at consistency, as nearly every question had a similar twin that was just reworded somewhere else in the test.
Yes, there is a test for Welfare. They overwhelm you for requests for documents. Once you get them, they ‘discover’ the need for a couple of more documents. Then they schedule phone calls, much like a cable company, asking for you to sit at a particular number between 8 and 12, but then never call. Then they ask you to hunt down some more documents, to come into the help center, but then announce that your particular worker was called away, then they ask for some more documents.
It’s all designed to aggravate you and encourage you to give up.
And yet when people talk about Welfare “reform” they don’t mean making it easier for qualified cases to obtain benefits, they mean making the above process even harder.
Man up, people. If you want to abolish Welfare, say so. Hope you like homeless people.
I have had to take Ethics tests for employment before.
These are hard test where sometimes even if you try to give the answer you think they want there really is no right answer.
I always did fine by giving the answers that I thought they would like best. (which aren’t that far off of my true answers)
I have to say, while frustrated, if the OP went off the hook like this applying at my company, they would not be hired either.
Apply to a local salon where you will probably make more in wages and tips than a “chain” like JCPenney. In most areas, the only people who use the JCPenney salon are blue haired old laides. Really.
I was under the impression that the vast majority of salons and barber shops don’t pay wages; that everyone except the owner/franchisee is an independent contractor who rents their station by the month, pays for their own supplies and keeps whatever they earn.
In WW2 years some scientists got turned down by uncle Sam because the test said they were too crazy for army.
Lucky for us, the only job left for those too-crazy-for-army people was making atomic bombs.
Same thing happened to me when I applied at Best Buy. Yes, I had just graduated with a degree in Electrical Engineering but apparently I was too dumb to work at Best Buy.
The questions that mess people up are, would you fire someone for stealing a dollar (most think no, they think yes…if you steal a dollar you’re probably stealing more). If you use drugs one time are you a drug addict.
Don’t think like a normal person, think like an evil faceless corporation that boils people down to some type of Orweillian nightmare where you are simply a number.
I learned a long time ago that you have to BS on these stupid test. HR people are among the biggest morons on the planet. They don’t know how to hire, so they resolve themselves to these ridiculous tests to do their jobs for them. You basically have to answer them like a jerkoff. Yes, I’d turn in my friends for stealing, Yes, I’m a goody two shoes, yes, I’m in bed by 8 and up at 5. No, I’d never steal, call in sick, or breath on days ending in Y. Etc. That’s the only way you get hired
Yup, I had a manager at a drug store all excited to hire me when I was in college, and he looked utterly crestfallen when he discovered I failed the stupid test. There was no way around it, he couldn’t hire me. What they want is people that will lie to them and tell them what they want to hear, not honest people who actually think about the answers.
When I was in high school, I worked at a KB Toys. I’d been there for about a year when they started using these tests, and it was insanely hard for us to hire new people because everyone was failing. So just to see what the stupid test was all about, I called up and took it. I had no reason to lie about anything since I was already working there, so I answered stuff honestly and didn’t think anything more about it.
I ended up leaving to work at another store that had better hours and pay, but a few months later, I was asked if I wanted to come back and do after-hours stocking. They gave me the phone number for the personality test, and when I called to take it, it said there was already one registered for me. About a week later, I got a call from my former manager telling me that they wouldn’t be able to hire me because I’d failed the test. “Um, I worked there for almost 2 years, no theft, no disciplinary action, and you can’t hire me to work 10 hours a week stocking shelves?” “Nope, sorry, you’re not the kind of employee corporate wants.”
Several years later, I was offered a job with AOL. Filled out the apps, went thru the interview process, etc. They offered me the job, then saw that I hadn’t done that part of the testing. Take the test, go home thinking I am starting a job in a month. A week later, I got a call saying I couldn’t be hired because of the personality test. I was perfectly qualified, came with recommendations from several other employees, had fun in the interviews, and knew I’d be good at my job…but a computer said I might steal a paper clip or fart without saying ‘excuse me’.
I don’t like those tests because they’re designed to trick you into ‘lying’. They ask the same question over and over, tweaked a bit to make it seem like a different question to see if you’re consistant. But the problem is that every time the question is changed, it becomes a slightly different question, and that little change might be enough to change how you view that situation. I actually took one once that asked if I’d ever contemplated suicide. I don’t see how teen angst that lasted a few hours could possibly have an effect to me using a cash register.
When I talked to someone about the test later, they said the best trick you can use when taking those tests is to put everything into a context of ‘today’. Like, if the question is ‘have you ever taken office supplies from work before’ you see it as ‘did you take any office supplies from work today’. That way, everytime that question comes around, you are framing it in the same way in your mind, and won’t trip up when it’s slightly changed.
This reminds me of a customer who showed up at one of the retail places I worked at.
She asked for a paper version of the job application because she couldn’t find the link to apply for a job on our retail website. When I had to inform her that the company didn’t make those she almost accused me of directly blocking her attempts to apply.
As for the application quiz, I’ve never failed one (that I know of), and never thought about looking up online before hand. I always found what they needed to be pretty straight forward.
Though I do find the ones that ask the same question differently over 5 times in a test to be considered very creepy.
But if that stops the women in their late 40′s or 50′s who show up at opening time in a jeans and t-shirt from filling in an application, and then waiting around the entire day for a job interview no-show so she can quickly get her foot in the door than I am more than willing to stand by this procedure… especially if those women are applying to be my manager. Eek.
As for people in their 60′s or 70′s… older even, you can’t expect them to be able to fill out these things online, and you shouldn’t leave them alone at the application terminal, instead of have them shy away from your store, assign a co-worker or manager to sit with them and type while they dictate, is that much to ask?
I say if it is designed to disqualify people who tell the truth then the company using the test is setting themselves up for failure. If a person is willing to lie to get the job they are willing to lie while on the job. It is that simple.
The however many day restriction is due to them keeping your application on file for 6 months – failed or otherwise. Advantageous if there’s lots of openings at the place, not so much if you fuck it up.
I took one of these when I applied for a job at an accounting firm once. The managers said the test indicated I wasn’t a good fit for the job. I politely challenged it (“How do you know? I’ve done this work before, blalblabla”) and actually got hired.
Turned out it wasn’t a good fit – not because of the test, but because they 1) hired me for a receptionist job and then tried to make me do someone’s payroll (Excuse me? In a place full of accountants?!), 2) made me do personal stuff for their church activities, and 3) the wife/co-manager screamed at me on my third day for making a small mistake. I said thank you very much for the opportunity and quit.
I wish they had tests that allowed you to screen the BOSSES.
I think
Grr! Sorry for the incomplete at the end; I typed something in the wrong window.
Here is the question that always gets me:
I used to do drugs in the past, but I don’t any longer
Strongly disagree, disagree, agree, strongly agree
How do you answer that if you never used drugs? If you say you strongly agree, you would be admitting to having used drugs. If you say strongly disagree, it could be taken as you currently doing drugs.
I’ve applied for jobs where the computer hates my resume and says I’m not qualified for the position…yet when a human reviews my resume…they say “your qualified for the position!” Uh ok.
Maybe the salon is different, but when I worked the retail end of JCP in high school it was a terrible job with awful management and crappy pay. I had to fight for months to get my MANDATORY raise instated after my probationary period was over. They gave me my raise about three months after they were supposed to, and I had to argue to get them to cut me a check for the back pay they owed me. I can’t say I’m surprised they’ve gone downhill.
I had this with Best Buy. I have the technical know-how, and the manager liked me.. But I failed the personality test, so they wouldn’t hire me. I wasn’t much of a Customer Service cheerleader…
Now I was in college at the time before I noticed how Best Buy is today. Still makes me mad, but now I have a wonderful job I look back and laugh..
One thing that no one has mentioned is that these tests are useful for the company when firing people or in lawsuits. They have a test they can hold up that shows your “opinions” or knowledge. They can use it to prove that you knew what you were doing was wrong or that your could be fired for a certain activity. Not nice but possible.
Funny, if these tests are designed to find the right kind of person to represent the company, how did all of those idiot savants get hired by Best Buy? Is that really how they want their company/brand name represented? oops, guess I just answered my own question.
Funny, if these tests are designed to find the right kind of person to represent the company, how did all of those idiot savants get hired by Best Buy? Is that really how they want their company/brand name represented? oops, guess I just answered my own question.
Yep these tests are easy to game, and don’t measure your personality accurately, and companies know it. So why do they use them at all?
Well, there is one aspect of your person that this test measures with accuracy:
Is this person willing to be or at least say they are the person they think the company wants them to be. If you can do it on the test, you can do it when your boss asks you to do something stupid.
Yep. I’m convinced the real point of these tests are to weed out the extreme wackos, but mostly to test the ability to do meaningless corporate BS.
This is an important skill. Unfortunately.
As you point out, computers don’t make mistakes. They do *exactly* what we tell them to do. Problem is, programmers do make mistakes, as do the people who specify to the programmers what they want to software to do. Did you ever, in grade school, have to write an essay like “In as much detail as possible, describe all the steps needed to make a PB&J sandwich?” That can easily be extended to several pages- and that’s the level of detail computers need, error-free, to do anything.
Got to agree with you, the OP issues sounds I/O related.
I used to work for JCP some years back as a loss prevention officer. Earlier this year, after quitting work at Sprint, I tried to go back to JCP to do the EXACT same job. Their hiring test wasn’t even relevant to loss prevention and it failed me even though I wasn’t even applying for a customer service position. Ridiculous.