(kostia)
A Nebraska landlord told a tenant the American flag she’s hanging outside her window has to come down, but she’s not budging.
KETV of Omaha reports the woman, whose husband is in the Navy, is keeping the flag up until the Red coats come to tear it down. But she doesn’t seem to have any legal ground to stand on because she signed an agreement that said she wouldn’t hang posters, pictures or flags in the windows.
Do you think the woman should get an exception for what appears to be an innocuous display of patriotism?
Apartment Complex Says No To Show Of Patriotism [KETV Omaha]
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Exception? No. Not because I don’t believe in our country but because of one fact – one exception opens the doors to many exceptions. If her landlord allows this, what happens when a person of Greek descent wants to hang their flag? Or an Arab? Or a picture of a casket of a solider?
The intent of the display carries no baring in this.
bearing, not baring.
Windows filled with Walmart holiday decorations are enough to make the building look trashy
Arabia is not a nation, so it doesn’t have a flag.
And that’s just about as likely as Congress proposing in each session a law to forbid destruction of every flag.
He didn’t say Arabia is a country that has a flag. He asked “what if an Arab wants to hang their flag?” (paraphrased). Arabs come from countries that have flags.
Technically, he asked “What happens when a person of Greek descent wants to hang an Arab?”
Well it’s not a flag or a poster, so that’d be fine.
What if the Greek hangs the Arab with a US flag from a Canadian maple tree in the name of some autoerotic asphyxiation fun? Whoa man. Heavy.
Just take the flag down and put a flag bumper sticker on your car. Or paint your entire car to look like a giant American flag. Or get an American flag tattoo on your forehead. Or petition the Snuggie company to make a US Flag Snuggie you can wear everywhere you go.
The patriotic dream doesn’t have to die on your front lawn. FREEEEEEEEEEEEDOOOOOOOOOM! hehe
hrm, you know, the tenant agreement doesn’t say she can’t paint the windows, just that she can’t hang one. she could paint a flag on the window
This is correct with my intent.
And, while it would be simple for them to make a rule, “American flags” only they might get blow back for insensitive to other cultures. Who knows – if they had an american only flag ruling maybe we’d be hearing about a person of another nationality complaining that they were being discriminated against.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hYeFcSq7Mxg
They were using arab as an example, I’m almost sure you could’ve figured that one out……..
actually there are arab flags. there are arabic countries, including Saudi Arabia, and also a flag of the Arab League
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arab_Flags
It would be very easy for the landlord to allow the display of the American flag but no others – simply amend the rules to allow the display of the American flag. The landlord could do that if he wanted to.
But he doesn’t and doesn’t have to.
Of course he doesn’t have to. I neither said nor implied that he had to or that he should or that I want him to do that. I said he COULD. Why did I say that? Look at the comment I’m responding to. The guy who is saying that if the landlord allows one kind of flag he has to allow anything else. That’s simply not true.
That would be *patently* illegal, as it would violate Fair Housing. You can’t write a housing contract with restrictions obviously intended to discriminate against anyone based on race, sex, creed, or national origin.
Well, if they are in NJ, they can display the American flag, but not the flag of another nation, and an HOA or the like can NOT restrict it:
NJSA 45:22A-48.1. Homeowners’ association prohibited from limiting, prohibiting display of U.S. flag, yellow ribbons, signs in support of troops…
Does that actually apply to a tenant/landlord situation? Doing some digging it looked like this law was intended to cover property OWNERS, not necessarily tenants. In particular the law requires that “the property rights of others are not impaired” in the course of displaying the flags/yellow ribbons. Wouldn’t the landlords property rights factor into this situation?
While not implicity covered by the law, I bet a good lawyer could whip up a legal argument that would convince a judge that a simple flag being displayed by a tenant falls within the spirit of the statute.
I would have to disagree with that if I were the Judge. Actually, I would feel the opposite would be the case.
The state law specifically deals with an organization who is not the owner trying to infringe on the rights of a property owner. In this case, the tenant wants to infringe on the rights of the property owner by not honoring the rental agreement.
The spirit of the law is that the property owner’s rights shall not be infringed when it comes to displays of the flag.
Except that the tenant also has certain rights to the property, via contract with the owner (the landlord).
Yes, but that contract specifically does not give the tenant the right to display a flag.
The internet: Where EVERYONE can be a lawyer
You should probably understand contract law in general and landlord-tenant law in the state in question specifically before you start arguing about what a judge in this case should do.
Yes, the laws in every state are different, and yes, IANAL, but given the argument presented by GetEm$teveDave, that is how I would decide.
I like debate based on reason, I admit when I make mistakes (see above about ‘president’ vs ‘precedent’), and I try my hardest to not make things personal or get involved in flame wars.
What if the tenant reclassified the flag as a window treatment, a.k.a. a curtain? Certainly there are no clauses in the lease that prohibit a curtain, and any good attorney would spin this as his case instead of trying to play the patriot card. Or, hell… the lady can order a set of blinds with the American Flag on them. There is nothing in the lease saying she can’t hang her own blinds, in fact the lease specifically states that blinds are allowed in the window and makes no mention of the type of blinds.
“Certainly there are no clauses in the lease that prohibit a curtain”
In my current lease agreement, there is a clause that states that all window coverings must have a plain white or cream backing that faces the outside of the building. My girlfriend has worked in the leasing industry for years, and according to her, this is very common. Every apartment rental company she has worked for in the past 5 years has included clauses very similar. Home rentals seem to be much less restrictive.
That wouldn’t work with any of the leases I’ve ever signed. They all specifically say that any window treatments must be white facing the outside. Blinds, curtians, doesn’t matter.. if it faces the outside it has to be white. I get around this by leaving their blinds on (white blinds) and putting my own curtians on top of them for the color to be on the inside.
Kinda like that old Ford quote, “I don’t care what color you paint the cars as long as when they come out at the end of the line, they are black.” or something like that.
Same in my apartment. Only thing allowed to show in the windows are the blinds. If you hang curtains. The blinds must be lowered. This has nothing to do with showing patriotism, She new when she signed the lease what she could and could not do.
And a lawyer a tenth as good would point out the following:
The law is explicitly written to target homeowners’ associations and homeowners. There is no usable analogy between HOAs and landlords, and homeowners and tenants. (The landlords are the “home”owners, after all.) So, no, there is no spirit of the law argument that could be used to take rights away from the owner of a rental unit.
Besides that, depending on the strength of the precedent, the judge would be opening up the possibility of using ALL laws that govern property rights for tenant rights, and vice-versa, to be decided on a case-by-case basis. The ensuing trainwreck would take an entire rewrite of both areas of law to undo. Have fun with that.
The fact that she signed a CONTRACT agreeing not to hang flags in the window is the only law in question. This is not a case of the landlord trying to stop her from hanging up a flag because they don’t want flags in the window, it is a case of a woman breaching a valid contract.
I could make the argument it does not matter since New Jersey law does not apply in Nebraska. End of discussion
This is not a HOA, since an HOA does not own the land they are trying to manage, that would not be a valid president in this case.
This is a case where the owner of the land is forbidding the display of a banner or flag within their property.
“President” is a word, but it’s not the word you were looking for. Precedent is the word you were looking for, but it’s still wrong. Laws are not precedents, they are laws.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Precedent
Woops, thank you. I need to be a little more careful about relying on the firefox spell check.
As previously stated, President is still a word. No spelling or grammar checker I know of would have caught that.
Which is why “Gandalf the Grey” said they need to be more careful about relying on it. When they rely on it, they make mistakes like “president” for “precedent”.
Well, it wouldn’t be a valid president either since the law is less than 35 years old. Original replier should stick to his/her guns.
That was indeed what I meant. Thank you.
The human brain would have.
By the letter of that law, I can put up a Canadian flag with “Support our troops” written on the bottom. After all, it’s a sign supporting the troops.
I realize we have lost tons of freedom in the past 10 years, but are we so afraid of Arabs now that we have to restrict the display of the American flag in fear that an Arab will display, I dunno, an Arab-ish (?) flag?
What does A have to do with B? The rule is no posters, pictures or flags in windows. What does that have to do with fear of arabs?
I don’t think it has anything to do with Arabs. You brought them up.
No, the problem is that if we allow only American flags, then people will cry that they can’t display THEIR flag, and the mainstream media will accuse the landlord of being a racist until he lets anyone put up any flag.
I think she should have to take her flag down because she signed a contract that says she can’t display it.
I don’t think she should have to take it down because some chain of events might unfold that would lead to some sort of race-based hullaballoo.
Quoting you:
“I realize we have lost tons of freedom in the past 10 years, but are we so afraid of Arabs now that we have to restrict the display of the American flag in fear that an Arab will display, I dunno, an Arab-ish (?) flag?”
I brought them up as an example of “what-if”, not we shouldn’t do it because of terra-rism.
You made the slippery slope argument…that if we let someone display an American flag then someone would want to display something more objectionable….like an Arab flag or anti-war picture.
My reply was simply trying to point out that it was kind of a silly argument to make for the landlord, especially when you have the obvious argument of a signed contract. The reason to not allow her to display the American flag is because she signed a contract preventing her from doing it…not because we want to keep Arabs from displaying their flag of choice.
The argument was “If the landlord allows this flag under these circumstances, the landlord will no longer have any legal footing to disallow other flags under different circumstances.” It doesn’t matter who wants to put a flag up, what flag they want to put up, or what reasons they have for putting it up. The lease agreement said no flags.
If everyone in my apartment complex put up a flag representing their country of heritage then my apartment complex would look like a UN summit.
Simple solution to that. You can display the flag of the country and state you reside in…if you want to display a Saudi Arabian flag, you should display it in the window of your home in Saudi Arabia.
Except this has nothing to do with it. The measure is most likely designed to prevent advertising or displays that look like shit. Since a landlord is always advertising the place. That is really the only incentive they have to keep the place looking nice.
Sure the flag is fine, but it would be a head ache to try to decide what is and is not appropriate. It is better to just ban all crap rather than waste time deciding what is good and what is bad.
Thats when the landlord sells preapproved flags that you can only buy from him. Monopoly.
My question is what the hell is an arab flag?
She signed an agreement saying she wouldn’t, and now she is breaking her contract. I don’t see how there is any argument or debate whatsoever in this case…
Exactly! Why is this even an issue?
Exactly – I started reading the title & article thinking how bad of a landlord could this be… Oh, there is a contract signed by the Tenant….
Well now it is how bad of a tenant this is to not be able to follow the contract they signed. This is yet another article written to make the landlord look bad when they have done nothing wrong.
Landlord just needs to let the tenant know to remove it or leave for breach of contract.
Cancel her rental agreement. Landlords need rights too.
True. I mean, if it’s in the lease agreement clearly this tenant knew about the rule and is blatantly disregarding it and therefore breaking her end of the lease.
See you tenant!
I’ve dealt with some scummy landlords in the past – one, at least, who I’d call an outright slum lord.
But this? I have to agree. It’s a reasonable clause of her lease, to which she agreed before moving in. She can obey, or be evicted due to breachof contract. Her choice.
Either way, there won’t be a flag hanging in or from that window.
Thanks all. I’m from the quiet military generation (WWII father and uncles)
The flag itself being displayed doesn’t matter, the fact is this fool said she wouldn’t display a flag, and is now doing so – in violation of her rental agreement.
If I were her landlord, I’d say “Listen, I’m as patriotic as the next guy – but you can’t display flags in the window. It has to come down now. Thanks.”
If she didn’t take it down, then I’d give her a 10-day notice to quit, evict her, and sue her ass for loss of rent and whatever other costs I had before re-renting the apartment.
It’s in the lease for a reason. If she didn’t like it, she didn’t have to sign it. Obey it 100%, or get out.
The issue here is that the display is of an American flag. If we were talking about a Green Day poster, this story probably wouldn’t have appeared here. Or in the KETV news lineup.
The issue in this case should be less about the flag and more about the fact that she signed a promise that was content-neutral and applies to everyone in the complex.
Just because an American flag is at issue doesn’t mean this should rise to the level of “news.”
I’m not so sure… because it was an American Flag, it becomes protected free speech, and political free speech is the most heavily protected by the supreme court.
Does she have a leg to stand on? I’m not sure, but I’m sure there are plenty of lawyers who would take her up on it.
Sigh. Another misuse of “Free speech”.
Read the actual amendment. Seriously, please go read it. It says that Congress can’t make a law that abridges free speech. CONGRESS.
You’d be amazed how much you can learn when you figure something out for yourself.
Understanding the First Amendment is impossible without also reading the 14th Amendment, which extends the rights and restrictions to the state level, too. But I digress.
This isn’t a free speech issue. It’s private property. She’s entitled to possession insofar as she abides by the covenants contained within her lease. The issue of the American flag only inflames the situation, which is unfortunate.
Ah yes, a good point.
I could be wrong but I believe the reference you’re making to the 14th amendment is to this:
“No State shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States …”
Even if this was a first amendment issue, which it’s not, a Radiohead poster is protected speech just as much as the American Flag is.
Political free speech is more heavily protected than other forms, is my point.
Constituional arguments such as “free speech” do not apply to private property. So no, she does not have a valid argument since the property is owned by the landlord, and he or she can pretty much restrict anything they wish to provided it does not violate any federal, state, or local laws.
Frankly this woman doesn’t have a legal leg to stand on, but of course there will be countless lawyers contacting her to work on the case pro-bono so they can milk it for some free publicity.
Bull. The flag is not necessary to be protected free speech. The Green Day poster is protected free speech too. And the government is not telling her to remove the flag, and therefore the concept of “protected free speech” does not apply. Private entities can set any rules they want regarding what you can and can’t stick on their property. She signed the agreement. She had a choice. If you want to display your flag, don’t move into a building where you can’t put crap in the windows.
While I agree this is not a 1st Amendment isue, the landlord still does not have carte blanche in terms of what rules they can implement. There is a line they cannot cross because it would infringe on their rights. This just happens not to be one.
I’d would argue there’s merit here, except that years of case law regarding HOAs and other such entities/covenents have pretty much sealed the debate on this particular issue. The law is very much against her on this one.
Free speech is only the right to not have the GOVERNMENT tell you you cannot say somehting, or display a message.
There is no law preventing private persons from restricting what can or cannot be said, displayed, or otherwise communicated within or from their private property.
There is no law that says you have the right to fly the flag anywhere/anytime because it is protected under the free speech clause of the first amendment. There are, however, many regulations about properly flying the flag, especially concerning flying the flag 24 hours a day and in inclement weather. I never fly the flag, well, because I never do, but I’m aware of the regulations and it pisses me off when someone disrespects the flag. I’ll bet her flag is not weatherproof and has no lights on it at night. Those are both requirements under the law for hanging a flag. Otherwise, it is to be ceremoniously raised and lowered each day.
I know this argument will come down to her contract. No court will take the landlords right to stipulate what can be done on their property, but the public pressure on the landlord in this case will probably cause the landlord to change his policy. It’s predictable that the public, in its ignorance, will not accept that the law is the law for a very good reason, and start picketing and saying nasty things to the landlord.
Why would a flag hung indoors need to be weatherproof?
It wouldn’t. Is that really the only thing you took away from my posting?
Her display of the flag is a fail. While it is displayed with the stars in the right place (for a change), it looks like she’s using it as a curtain. While I see no regulations about displaying flags in residential windows, it doesn’t exactly look respectful.
No, it was the only part of your comment that I was replying to however. I don’t have any opinion on the rest of your comment. I only have an opinion on the part which reads “[...] it pisses me off when someone disrespects the flag. I’ll bet her flag is not weatherproof and has no lights on it at night. Those are both requirements under the law for hanging a flag. “
So, I commented in regards to that one part. Chillax.
More importantly, using the American Flag as a curtain would be an inappropriate and disrespectful use of the Flag.
It seems clear the law for displaying the flag is incomplete if it does not include renters. Therefore, change the law, don’t break the agreement.
If the law is changed, then she can fly the flag. You cannot assign away certain rights granted to you in a contract, and that law protects American Flag flying as a free speech issue.
Who told you , you could not sign away rights in a contract? In fact, that is what you do in a contract. There is no right to do whatever you want on somebody else’s property. As for the flag, if I want to pee on it, burn it, use it to wipe my ass, there is NO law in existence that can stop me. It is true freedom of speech. Any law that says otherwise is in direct violation of Texas v Johnson.
You most certainly can sign away rights with a contract.
Research bail bond contracts. You sign away several amendments (including “search and seizure”, a bail bond enforcer can legally break into your house and detain you).
HowStuffWorks.com has a pretty good article and podcast on the subject.
yes, there is such a law saying you have a right to fly a certain flag. Its the “Freedom to Display the American Flag Act of 2005″. Look it up
No. You look it up, and actually read it this time.
Aaaaah….the vaunted “rubber-glue” retort. Touche!
Exactly. Wear a rubber and you won’t get stuck with stupid kids who don’t know how to read.
Sure, I looked it up.
It doesn’t apply to renters, at all.
It applies to property OWNERS, and expressly forbids HOAs, Co-op Associations, or Condominium Associations (etc) from forbidding their own members from displying the flag on their own property.
The intent of the law is, “If the property is residential, and if you own
RTF Act yourself. I got my information from The United States Flag: Federal Law Relating to Display and Associated Questions. As many commenters have posted, that Act protects the property OWNERS. It says nothing about a renters rights to fly the flag.
http://www.senate.gov/reference/resources/pdf/RL30243.pdf
The relevant information you’re referencing is in the last paragraph.
Another person who signs an agreement not to do something and then does it anyway.
Another landlord who will buckle under press/public scrutiny.
Is there any doubt about how this will end and every argument/post/discussion between now and then?
Are you suggesting that there is only one paragraph to their agreement or do you have the original agreement they each signed in your possession?
I can’t imagine that the only paragraph in their rental agreement deals with what can be installed on the inside of the window.
Maybe there would be another paragraph in their rental agreement that spells out further rights that each can examine.
I have no idea what point you’re trying to make. The number of paragraphs in the agreement doesn’t really have any relevance to the content of the agreement, does it?
From the article: “The manager of The Landings apartment complex said the reason Simonson-Rubenstein received those notices is simple. She said every tenant at the apartment complex signed an agreement saying they won’t hang anything in the windows except for the blinds — no posters, no pictures, no flags.”
Does it really matter if this is spelled out in one paragraph or two or four? The tenant is not disputing she agreed to this; she is disputing that it applies to the American flag.
IF in fact she signed a lease/contract that says NO FLAGS etc. she signed her rights away to do so. END OF STORY.
Except if she lived in NJ:
NJSA 45:22A-48.1. Homeowners’ association prohibited from limiting, prohibiting display of U.S. flag, yellow ribbons, signs in support of troops.
We didn’t forget what it cost to protect the freedom that flag represents!
It’s an apartment complex, not a homeowner’s association. She doesn’t own anything.
Any good lawyer could cite the similar circumstances between the situation and the existing law and get a judge to agree. The law is an amazing thing. It not only lectures, it listens. It doesn’t just stand still, it can move and change.
Any good lawyer would point out that she doesn’t OWN the damn apartment, and never will. There’s no connection between a homeowner’s association and an apartment lease.
This. Exactly and precisely 150% this.
Display of the United States Flag is only a protected right for the owner of a residential property.
Everyone else? Not guaranteed. If you want the right to do so, negotiate for it in your lease or comparable agreement.
About a buck o’ five?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RDWSGmphgTs&feature=related (NSFW)
Or anywhere else in the the US: http://www.govtrack.us/congress/bill.xpd?bill=h109-42&tab=summary
“States that a condominium association, cooperative association, or residential real estate management association may not adopt or enforce any policy, or enter into any agreement, that would restrict or prevent an association member from displaying the U.S. flag on residential property within the association with respect to which such member has a separate ownership interest or a right to exclusive possession or use.”
Near the end of this phrase from the site you referred to. See the word “ownership?” She rents, she does not own. The owner doesn’t want stuff hanging from the window.
Read it yourself. ” a right to exclusive possession or use” could easily be construed to include renters. But that’s in New Jersey, not Nebraska, where the story took place.
this person has a Constitutional right to bear the flag-this is not contract law, but Constitutional law. Where the H is the pathetic ACLU when they are actually needed
“this person has a Constitutional right to bear the flag-this is not contract law, but Constitutional law. Where the H is the pathetic ACLU when they are actually needed”
With Constitutional matters, it’s not Constitutional just because you say it is. You really have no understanding of the law.
The ACLU stands by people of any faith when actual 1st amendment rights are being stripped away.
There should absolutely not be an exception made for this. The lease says “except for the blinds — no posters, no pictures, no flags.” So yes, no legal grounds to stand on. Moreover, allowing one exception puts the landlord in the position of potentially having to pick and choose exceptions in the future. Should a state flag be allowed? Would you allow the state flag if it’s the relatives of a fallen state trooper? How about a Brazil flag? Could you fly a Brazil flag just during the World Cup? I’m Israeli-can I fly the Israeli flag? But she gets to fly the US flag! Etc., etc., etc.
The apartment complex chose to make things simple for themselves and clear for all, giving warning and notice to its tenants with a simple statement in the lease. If you don’t like the terms of the lease, go elsewhere.
Then the state law needs to be changed. Progressive states have already passed laws which says an HOA can not limit you from displaying an US flag, yellow ribbon, or other signs supporting troops, unless they are a safety risk.
“Progressive”? What makes those state progressive, exactly?
They are going from a less free to a more free state of being. Progress.
There is a difference between owning a home in a neighborhood with an HOA and being a tenant in a building owned by somebody else.
She should make custom blinds with the US Flag printed on it.
If she had vertical blinds, this would be easy to do…just print out a large flag, cut out strips to size, and tape to the side of the blind facing out. (Would probably work with horizontal blinds too, but would be more difficult)
So you could get blinds that when closed display an American flag?
Probably. This was not the intent, but if the blind don’t say solid colored, it would be a loophole.
But your next lease will definitely say solid colored blinds on it.
Usually the lease says that any window coverings must be white. No other reason other than curb appeal. Everyone having different colored curtains, blinds, poster, foil, flags, et al. does tend to make the place look junky.
If she has it outside and mounted then that is not allowed as she doesn’t pay rent on the outside of the apartment.
Personally, I would still put a flag up in a window on holidays but would only leave it up for a few days. I never got any complaints from mgmt. It may already be too late for her though as she done ticked ‘em off.
No. Contract law is clear.
but this contract is illegal, so there isn’t necessarily a contract (This contract is in violation of US laws saying that you cannot limit someones right to fly an american flag this way)
And what laws would those be?
http://www.govtrack.us/congress/bill.xpd?bill=h109-42&tab=summary
Apartment tenants are not owners That law does not apply.
Although I completely agree with you, no judge will evict her under those grounds. The judge was disparage the landlord for wasting the court’s time.
Under Contract law, or any other law, you cannot violate the Constitution
No part of the constitution was violated.
I think this one goes to the tenant, as long as she has “exlusive possession to use” for where she’s displaying the flag.
See the Freedom to Display the American Flag Act of 2005:
http://www.ushistory.org/betsy/more/hr42.htm
I do like this as it would render such sections of the contract unenforceable, but I fail to understand which part of the law would apply to an apartment complex. It appears to be only about the various forms of HOAs.
Very good link, but have you read it? It says the opposite what you suggest.
“Nothing in this Act shall be considered to permit any display or use that is inconsistent with (…) any reasonable restriction (…) necessary to protect a substantial interest of the condominium association (…)”
“as long as she has “exlusive possession to use” for where she’s displaying the flag.”
But she doesn’t.
Oh blessed irony. She demands that this shows her patriotism, yet she’s encroaching on the apartment complex’s rights to impose reasonable restrictions. She’s slaunting her own rights was infringing on someone else’s rights.
So yeah, she’s definitely a true American.
Hahahaha
I was debating putting my own reaction to this story up, but this pretty much encapsulates it.
She using peaceful protest and puyblic shaming to humiliate the LL…you don’t stand for the individual’s right to exercise her 1st amendment by bringing attention to this story??!?!?!?
She can try to bring attention to it, but it’s a non-story, perpetuated by the media’s ratings-whore philosophy. “OMG THE OUTRAGE!!” is the only thing they want to happen.
As I said elsewhere, case law is against her, and she should abide by the contract she signed.
The First Amendment is not in play here. At all. The landlord is not a government entity abridging her right to speech.
This shouldn’t even be a discussion… She signed an agreement stating that she could live there under certain terms and she is negating those terms by doing this. Kick her out if she refuses to oblige.
She should have read the fine print, people are just signing things away.
KMTV is a TV station, not an apartment complex
KETV?
The keys are like right next to each other.
Lol just read that. Apartment complex, KETV!
Phil is a copy-paster, not a writer. Sometimes bits get copy-pasted next to other bits in a way that doesn’t make sense.
Where I live, there was a similar court case a few years back, and American flags, like satellite dishes, were exempted from the rules. It sounds like she’s not in whatever jurisdiction was covered by that decision, though.
iirc, Satellite dishes, antennas and the like are covered by an FCC regulation which trumps contract law. As long as the device can be installed without damaging the building (e.g., setting the antenna base in a bucket of concrete), the landlord cannot prohibit its use.
Satellite also has to be installed in an area the tenant normally has access to, like a common area. If the only place you can put the dish to get signal is the roof, and access to the roof is restricted, the landlord is under no obligation to give you access so you can put a dish there.
She’s from a military family and the flag is up backwards?
No, I think it’s up correctly. When you put a flag in a window, the canton/union should be in your right hand (on the left when looking at it from outside).
BOT- quintessential American, all about freedom, liberty, etc. until it inconveniences them or they feel that someone is getting more than they are, then there should be a law.
Correct. It does look kind of weird that way and you would think it should be reversed but it is displayed properly.
Correct, the stars are always in the upper left. It’s just that most people don’t know that and you usually see it hung wrong.
United States Code Title 4 Chapter 1 §7i — When displayed either horizontally or vertically against a wall, the union should be uppermost and to the flag’s own right, that is, to the observer’s left. When displayed in a window, the flag should be displayed in the same way, with the union or blue field to the left of the observer in the street.
Who gives a shit? You have a husband in the Navy: Guess what? Putting a flag up? Not high on the list of patriotic things being done in the household.
Actually, to be clear: Putting a flag up- unless atop a hill at Iwo Jima, not particularly patriotic in general. It does absolutely no good to the country you’re living in. The founding fathers seemed to have this strange and outlandish notion that patriotism was expressed in civil service and aid to the community at large.
Of course, expecting that from your average modern pseudo/anarcho/Amero-capitalist American who bought into the narrative hook, line, and sinker that being American is to generally not give a shit about other people… that’s a tall order.
I love this comment and completely agree.
I had a friend whose hubby was in the Air Force. She consistently refers to this period of time as “when we were in the military”. As a vet, it drives me crazy. Honey, you weren’t in shit. Your husband was. Get over yourself.
I love the above comment too.
I just had to say, though, that I’ve stayed on a military base with my fiance’s family (his father is in the coast guard). It struck me like summer camp for adults. The whole family would probably refer to themselves as being “in the military” because they’re part of a “cult” that doesn’t have to go more than a half mile to shop for anything, go the movies, see a doctor, etc.etc. Everything is arranged for them at their doorstop.
this reminds me of when men say “were pregnant”. I have the same objection!
“Who gives a shit? You have a husband in the Navy: Guess what? Putting a flag up? Not high on the list of patriotic things being done in the household.”
Fairweather friends of freedom. Rather wave a flag than do something worthy of the country.
Not if she signed the contract.
Must be some sort of America-hating, terrorist-loving jerk that owns that apartment complex.
Probably part of of those darn Al Qaeda peoples! We should search the building immediately for WMD
Brilliant GWB impersonation.
thank you! I read that reply in dubya’s voice, but couldn’t figure out who’s voice it was until you brought it up…
God, i miss dubya
No exceptions. She signed a contract.
If she was interested in hanging an American Flag in her window she should have read the contract and negotiated that before signing. I’m as patriotic as the next guy, but this sense of entitlement in America has GOT to stop.
Or moved to a state that has some sense and passes laws which state you can’t prohibit the display of an American flag, yellow ribbon, or other troop support symbols, as long as safely/properly displayed.
While I appreciate your point, GitEm$teveDave, NJ’s law does not bestow upon it the status of “having sense”. NJ is still nonsensical.
GESD is correct. Illegal conditions in a contract are not enforceable, and if they are material to the contract they will usually render the contract void. Just because it is in writing and you sign it does not mean it “IS”.
True, for the most part. That said, hanging things in the window is probably not going to be considered material, the contract likely had a severability clause, and even in the event that the flag-hanging business was considered unseverable and the contract was declared invalid, that means the landlord can evict the tennant (more or less) immediately.
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Sand monkey? You really think that’s appropriate in an adult discussion?
Since when are blog comments an “adult discussion”?
Wow. Way to throw out the assumptions AND racial slurs.
Your disemvowelment awaits. See earlier post on how to use satire appropriately.
Hey! My dad is a sand monkey! …I mean, an Arab!
Do he fling his WMDs at people?
No but every year, as a joke, we get him some kind of camel for his birthday.
I agree. It is disgusting and absurd. You agreed to a certain set of rules when you wanted to live there. The apartment complex is maintaining its side of the agreement, but you don’t think that you should be held to the agreement that you made in good faith with the apartment complex. You are what is disgusting and absurd about this whole situation, lady, not the apartment complex. If you didn’t like the restrictions, you didn’t have to sign the lease.
I’m sure they’ll change their mind. IIRC, last time this happened and made big news, US Flag Code (while not law) > apartment rental agreement.
Actually, I think public outcry will trump rental agreement (even though as a veteran myself, I get tired of people wrapping themselves in the flag).
Depending on your interpretation of flag code hanging a flag like that might be against flag code. Flag code states that a flag should never be used as drapery, and a flag over a window is arguably drapery.
I happen to believe there absolutely should be an exception for the American Flag.
Nothing more sacred than a symbol that was made in China.
I think hanging a flag like that looks a little tacky. I can see where a complex would not want it.
That makes no sense to me. Seeing the American flag as tacky is pretty tacky.
It’s beautiful when it’s flying from a flag pole, dignified and somber when draped over a coffin, utterly tacky when it’s hanging in an apartment window.
I happen to believe the opposite. What now?
Agree to disagree. Also, GTFO you terrorist scum.
I can see you have embraced the politics of the “agree with me or you aren’t an American” philosophy.
Welcome back Joe McCarthy! We missed ya!
My god this is going to be awful. No, you have to abide by your rental agreement plain and simple. You can discuss exceptions with your landlord or ask to handle things on a case by case basis but a no is final.
However, because we live in a country of knee-jerk reactions, people aren’t going to consider this simple responsibility of doing what you agreed to. Here’s whats going to happen: Solely because it’s the American flag and her husband is in the Navy, the landlord is going to have a pool-pah descent upon him. His rights be damned, he’s going to face an inordinate amount of pressure and will be essentially forced to allow this woman to do whatever she wants. Please understand that she has the right to move and live somewhere else, but now she’s going to impose her rights as more important than the person who owns the property. It’s pretty sad.
Yea, she also has the right to get the news involved and publicly shame the LL for his actions.
Or do you believe the corporations should hold more right than humans?
Publicly shame the landlord for his actions? You mean enforcing the provisions that the lady explicitly agreed to? Pointless, self-centered things like this are exactly why corporations treat people like crap. This is nothing more than a stupid lady thinking that she’s entitled to the world on a silver platter, and unfairly deserves an exception to something she bound herself to.
Absolutely not. She signed the lease of her own free will and that included the prohibition against hanging anything in the window except blinds. They wouldn’t give a pass to someone that tried to hang the Jolly Roger in the window, so they shouldn’t give her an exception just because it’s the American Flag and “Oh Noes! If we make her take it down, we’re terrorists who don’t support the troops.”
let me clear something up: simply hanging up a flag does NOT make you a patriot.
You’re not from around here are you? Everyone knows, you show your partriotism by driving a big SUV, not helping others, and wearing an XXL Old Navy flag t-shirt.
The SUV has to have one of those stupid plastic flags hanging out the window.
No, it needs to be a very tattered cloth flag accompanied by a “support the troops” magnet on the tailgate.
Everyone had one of those tacky things after 9/11 but blessedly they are quite rare around here now.
… nor does the desire to hang an American flag necessarily make you a redneck idiot…
This entitled b!tch feels that she is too special to abide by the rules, like everyone else.
I bet she runs red lights, speeds, has 21 items in the 15-or-less checkout, parks in fire lanes, doesn’t pick up her dog’s poop, and probably sneaks in an extra 1/2 hour at lunch.
But then she gets caught, and tries to explain why the rules DON’T APPLY TO HER in her “special situation.”
Holy crap, b!tch!! It’s a FLAG!! You agreed not to hang those when you signed your lease. Take it down. It looks like crap and if you don’t like it, BUY A HOUSE AND MOVE!
What’s that? Your credit is not good enough to get a mortgage because you don’t follow credit card agreements either and don’t see why you have to pay your bills on time??? BWAAAAHHAHA!!
Evict her stupid entitled ass.
And sadly, the last time I saw an American flag it had “made in China” on the stitching. There’s a good chance her patriotism was outsourced.
I really hate those people with extra items in the 15-item-or-less lane.
I only had one item. I just happened to have 37 of them.
You left out double parking so that no one will ding their Cobalt SS.
Not likely to have bought a car from Government Motors.
Toyota Tacoma, then.
Great. Next thing you know, they’ll be making me take down my 50 live bald eagles.
I think you’re more likely to have a park ranger show up to confiscate them for re-population purposes!
Hang on..lemme get my gun.
I wonder which one of them will be Olbermann’s Worst Person in the Woooorrrrrrlllllld.
I wonder if the owner would have the gall to try the same thing with a Gold Star flag?
Try what “same thing”? Expect the tenant to abide by the agreement they both signed in good faith?
Do you even know what a Gold Star flag represents?
It means a close family member, a son, daughter, brother, husband or father died in the service of our country.
No judge would dare uphold such a restriction, even it it were in the lease!
The various veterans organizations would crucify him or her!
Oh, I know what it means. I guarantee you every single person in the world has had at least one ancestor die at one time or another. Many of them probably died in an act of war of some sort. That fact, however, does not give them the right to blatantly disregard a contract entered into by two parties in good faith.
Contract law is explicit in this regard for a reason. The two parties have responsibilities toward each other. The landlord agreed to supply her with a place to live. She agreed to pay him money and to abide by a set of rules. If she doesn’t want to be a responsible adult and perform her duties, the landlord is free to begin eviction proceedings, which are probably spelled out in the lease contract.
“No judge would dare uphold such a restriction, even it it were in the lease!”
So what? You conservatives sure are all gung-ho on “activist judges”, maybe you should look for impartiality.
Well, that’s yet another reason I love living in NJ. We passed a law which states you can display an American flag. According to NJSA Sec. 45:22A-48.1: “a homeowners’ association may not adopt or enforce rules prohibiting the display of the U.S. flag, yellow ribbons, or signs unless the display “threatens public safety, restricts necessary maintenance activities, interferes with the property rights of another, or is conducted in a manner inconsistent with the rules and customs deemed the property manner to display the flag.â€
Right, and this is not a homeowners association. An HOA is specifically a group of people who own their homes. That law was likely passed because HOAs in the suburban sprawling little-boxes subdivisions thought that American flags would bring down their property values, so they prohibited them. But we now know that to live in the suburbs is to be a real American, so a lot of states passed laws like that.
This, my friend, is not an HOA. It’s a rental community.
Yes, but laws like this can apply to other similar situations.
I don’t think this is one of then unless the term homeowners association is ambiguous in the state and susceptible to multiple interpretations.
Fair enough. But it’d have to hold up in state court, and I doubt any judge in his/her right mind would think that the state legislature really meant “HOAs and landlords” when they wrote “HOAs.”
“An HOA is specifically a group of people who own their homes.”
Her landlord does.
There is a similar federal law from 2005 that states home owners may not be restricted from hanging flags. That law, nor the New Jersey law you state, are relevant in this situation though, because this is a renter, not a home owner.
If she signed an agreement saying no flags, then no flags. Seems pretty cut-and-dried to me.
If they make an exception for her, they have to make an exception for the guy with the rebel flag or anything truly offensive. I think the apartment complex is trying to control its perception and that’s well within their means.
Why? Why would they have to make an exception for everything else? They wouldn’t. The American Flag ONLY. That is the only exception. That is appropriate.
The rebel flag is sometimes displayed to show support for states’ rights.
It typically has a negative connotation related to the civil war and slavery, but my point is it’s not always meant that way.
(Coming from a northerner who has been living in the deep south for a little while).
“The rebel flag is sometimes displayed to show support for states’ rights.
It typically has a negative connotation related to the civil war and slavery, but my point is it’s not always meant that way.”
From a Southerner, it’s always meant that way. “States’ rights” is a racist dogwhistle.
I agree with landlord. She agreed to not hang anything except window blinds, so she need to go get flag-patterned window blinds.
All the people who keep quoting the NJ law restricting Homeowner’s Associations from preventing display of the US flag are missing an important point: The case in question doesn’t involve an HOA, which doesn’t own the properties it attempts to govern; it involves a landlord, who DOES own the property.
The HOA law prevents HOAs from infringing the rights of the property owners. No HOA involved here, so it’s irrelevant.
Looks to me like it’s the same person quoting it like 3-4 times. I agree though, it seems to me it wouldn’t apply to an *apartment* that one does not *own*.
I lived in an apartment complex once that had the same rules, and one of my redneck neighbors decided to hang a confederate flag in the window, in a sloppy fashion, just like the picture in the article. I asked the management several times to order them to take it down because it made the place look ghetto and embarassing, but they never had the stones to do it. I think they ended up being evicted or taking it down on their own for some reason.
As someone who was born and lived in the north (PA/NJ, 22 years) and has now spent an extended period of time living in the deep south (GA/SC, 1 year), I have to point out that not everyone flies the Confederate Flag with bad intentions.
I don’t have numbers or stats for this, so all I can say is that some people fly that flag as the “rebel” flag in order to celebrate the idea of states’ rights. Since this is simply a political view without any innate negative connotation, it at least speaks to the idea that that flag is not always bad.
I’m saying this simply as an FYI.
Darn, it’s a shame I can’t make an awesome painting, because the First Amendment only covers speech, not art. Well, unless the spirit of a law can apply to something not implicitly stated in the law.
GEDS, I have nothing but respect for you, but you would make a terrible lawyer. In this discussion, you’ve now demonstrated that you don’t understand how legislation is interpreted by the judiciary, and also that you don’t really understand how the First Amendment works either. For example, if you signed a contract with a private party stating that you wouldn’t create an “awesome painting,” then you could not, in fact, legally create said painting without defaulting on the contract. Your right to create awesome paintings cannot be infringed upon by the federal government (because of the First Amendment) or the state government (because of the Fourteenth Amendment), but private parties (for example, the landlord in this case) suffer no such restriction.
A good example of this is with bail bond contracts.
When you sign a bail bond contract, you’re of couse saying “You guys promise to pay on my behalf and I promise I won’t run”, but you also forfeit the rights to not have your home broken into by a bounty hunter, the right to not be physically detained by said bounty hunter, the right to not have your personal records accessed by said bounty hunter, etc. You basically give up all of the rights that would be infringed on by a bounty hunter in the process of finding you.
(Granted there’s some states that have restrictions or prohibitions on bonds, I don’t recall specifics. This is all taken from a HowStuffWorks.com podcast).
Speech is subject to multiple interpretations.
“Homeowners association” is much more limited. I looked at that statute in NJ and it says associations formed to manage parts of property held in common by all the property owners in the association. Put your judge hat on and tell me how that definition also includes landlords and tenants.
No.
She signed a contract and should be held to said contract. We have freedom of speech in this country, but what about the freedom of property owners to make the rules for their own private property?
Rules is rules.
Does the “won’t hang anything in the windows except for the blinds” rule explicitly state the type/color of the blinds?
Are the renters limited to whatever blinds the apartment complex provides or is she free to install her own blinds?
If she can replace the blinds with some of her own choosing why not make a blind that resembles an American flag and always keep it closed?
A very lawyerly thing to do, and why we need so much damn fine print in contracts.
Every apartment property I’ve managed had a lease specifying that all window hangings must be white-backed.
Oh and… LOL to the sand monkey comment, LOL to stevedave posting his comment 3842378492842 times, LOL to the people who are “patriots” LOL to the Veterans who are PRO-capitalism and ANTI-establishment AT THE SAME TIME.
L FRICKEN O FRICKEN L to the people who are all for HER EVICTION!
You guys crack me up… and that’s what makes you beautiful unique butterfly MERRRICANZ.
Yeah, everyone here seems to have an opinion as to what should happen in this situation… except you. How very meta! Enjoy the fray from your perch.
ACTUALLY!! I love how smart you are… read two comments up… “rules is rules.”
SWING AND A MISS!!!
MUahahahahahaha
She chose to agree not to display flags. Patriotism schmatriotism, it’s no get-out clause for a contract.
Don’t let Glenn Beck hear about this. He might start crying while passionately expounding on terrorist Obama’s war on white people, or something.
I’m with the landlord on this one. I own a tri-plex – a victorian house that’s been converted to 3 units; I live in one unit, rent the other two. The rental agreement for my tenants specifically states no political posters, signs, or political advertising is to be displayed on the house or on windows, etc. but that Holiday decorations are welcome. If my tenants want to put up a flag around the Fourth of July or pumpkin art around Halloween, so be it. The agreement actually states that Holiday decorations have to be taken down 2 weeks after said Holiday.
My reasoning is that everyone who lives at my address may not agree with something that’s put up so having the outside of the house be neutral is in the best interest of it actually being HOME. I want everyone to be comfortable and feel welcome.
If it’s in her agreement, then she should take it down; if she doesn’t like it, move.
Simple solution…if she wants to be an ass and still adhere to the contract she signed…paint the blinds as a flag.
If she so desires she can take a passive aggressive stance by purchasing american flag curtains opening up her blinds and closing her curtains.
What if we charge the situation with a little more emotion? what if her husband was a POW and she was trying to hang the POW flag? I’d have a harder time saying take down the flag which is part of a morning / coping process. As landlord in that instance I may cave or offer to fly the flag on the flag pole. Which could be a good stance with the real issue the landlord could offer to fly her husband’s unit flag or the military branch flag.
Sorry, but it’s not her place, so it’s not her rules. If the landlord requires all tenants to wear pink while on the premises, then better get comfortable wearing the hello kitty gear. . . .
No. I understand she wants to express herself, but she doesn’t own the outside of the building. It’s not her building to decorate in such a way that she can express herself.
Besides, I think that passersby know which country they are in. They probably don’t need to reassure themselves by seeing an American flag fly overhead.
Why not a compromise? They could allow her to put the flag outside on a pole? Looks good, much better than having it up in a window.
No, she should not get an exception. If landlord gives her an exception, he or she will have to give other exceptions or possibly face a claim for discrimination. What happens when someone else wants to display the flag of another country because that is where they are from?
You have the right to burn a flag, but not fly it proudly on private property.
Well, if the rental agreement says no fires, you can’t burn it either.
Please stop with the statements from the Palin School of Constitutional Studies.
The first amendment says the GOVERNMENT can’t stop you from exercising your free speech rights. In a private agreement, you can agree to this. There are some limited exceptions (an employer can’t usually stop you from engaging in speech activities off the clock, etc.), but this is not one of them.
Actually, the no open flames rule will take care of the flag burning issue.
It’s not her property.
I know, I’m saying she doesn’t have the right to fly it on her landlord’s private property.
Normally I’d quote Voltaire and say “A witty saying proves nothing” except your comment isn’t witty.
This is just another example of why you should always thoroughly read any contract you sign.