A Tennessee man watched in horror last week as flames consumed his house. Also watching? The local subscription-based fire department. The man had not paid his $75 firefighting fee, so the firemen would not lift a finger or a hose.
Only after the fire spread to his neighbor’s field would the firemen even respond to his 911 calls. Once there, they only put out the field fire as his house continued to burn to a crisp. His neighbor had paid his firefighting fee.
“I thought they’d come out and put it out, even if you hadn’t paid your $75, but I was wrong,” the hapless homeowner told reporters.
The man offered to pay them the fee right then and there, or however much it took to get them to put out the fire, but was refused. The man lives in a county that has no fire protection. The nearby town offers fire protection to non-residents on a per-contract basis.
“Anybody that’s not in the city of South Fulton, it’s a service we offer, either they accept it or they don’t,” the mayor told WPSD.
Later someone went to the fire station and assaulted one of the fire fighters.
Firefighters watch as home burns to the ground [WPSD] (Thanks to Justin!)
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I don’t care what the subscription model says. If you’re a firefighter and you just watch a home burn down and could have prevented it: Pardon my French, but you’re an asshole.
All the people in this thread comparing it to insurance: it’s not the same. It’d be closer, if the doctor was standing there with the defibrillator/epi-pen/bonesaw in his hand and going “oh, if you’d only paid your insurance…” but not the same.
If they needed the money to cover the job they could have billed him for it afterward so as not to have wasted the subscribers’ paid funds. Just like in no-insurance doctor instances.
No, it would be like a doctor refusing to do a boob job before he got paid. There were no lives to protect, and property damage is not the concern of firefighters. The job of putting out fires is to reduce injuries and loss of life, property is the province of their insurance company. Putting out this fire was elective surgery, not really necessary.
Do these firefighters stop to make sure city residents aren’t behind on their property taxes before coming out?
Bill em, fine em, berrate them but don’t stand around with thumb up butt protesting. Either you want to be a fireman or not. This fire dept already failed in my book for letting the fire jump to somebody else’s property which it was their job to prevent.
I blame the guy for not paying the fee. Why the hell should he get a service for free that everybody else pays for?
Seems like a good argument for the town to compel these services and take in property taxes on it.
Only this guy didn’t live in ‘the town’. They had no jurisdiction to force him to do anything.
The comparison between health care which if not paid for only endangers the individual, and a FIRE which could result in entire neighborhoods being decimated should the right wind happen on by, is absurd. Fires should be put out because they are hazardous to everyone.
ever heard of a ‘controlled burn?’
I certainly can’t find any references online, but a boy I remember seeing a “tax disc” nailed to a tree. Turns out in the oldin days that you either belonged to the volunteer fire department, or you paid a fee/tax. If you didn’t have your medallion they didn’t put out the fire. There are no freebies. You either pay for fire protection or you don’t get fire protection. As long as the fire departments aren’t setting the fires, or collecting the tax (via city etc) and then billing your insurance company there is nothing wrong with this. I doubt this is the first year that the person didn’t pay the fee. There is no paying for insurance after the accident.
What I haven’t seen mentioned: what if he had paid and through clerical error, the P.O. or some other snafu he was placed on “didn’t pay” list in error? Would that make it ok for the firefighters to not put out the fire? If the list and payment delivery system are perfect and there is no chance for error well, maybe you have a point (although I still don’t agree with it), but until that happens they need to have system in place that is something other than “you’re not paid up, so we let your house burn.”
That the error was the homeowners and not someone elses doesn’t make it less tragic or unacceptable.
Libertarians, Objectivists, Tea Partiers, please take note.
Why doesn’t the FD charge per call (ALA Ambulance) for those that don’t choose to pay the fee? I guess who ever is in charge of Animal Cruelty in the state might look into why they made no effort to save his dogs either.
“Each year, Obion County residents must pay $75 if they want fire protection from the city of South Fulton. But the Cranicks did not pay.
The mayor said if homeowners don’t pay, they’re out of luck.”
the homeowner knew this upfront. no pay no service. it’s a shame but he only has himself to blame for his house burning down.
I’d sue for damages if I were his neighbor. He paid the $75 fee and the fire department did nothing but wait until his property actually caught fire before they left the station. They must have know that was highly likely to happen.
meh. the firefighters came out, made sure that no-body got hurt. if the firefighters could have saved the house, then the guy could have put the fire out with a bucket and or a hose himself. otherwise the best he would have gotten was a fire-gutted water-soaked and damaged frame that would need to be torn down.
pay the fee or deal with it. i cannot condone Assaulting firefighters cause they did their job. which they did… putting out the fire on the property where they have jurisdiction. that fee? also would include a waiver to allow the firefighters to be absolved of liability while working on you property.
if you don’t have public fire dept, thats what you get for not paying you fee. he wasn’t hurt. no-one was hurt. his house and shit burned down. sucks to be him. esp if he doesn’t have fire insurance. or if said insurance tells him “tough luck, sense you didn’t pay the fee to keep fire coverage on your house, besides this politcy, it nulls our contract, we don’t pay”.
And I can’t even condone calling any of the Lowlifes involved calling themselves Fireman.
What if I could condone & turn a Blind Eye to anything that happened to the so called Fireman though? Sounds Cruel doesn’t it?
I wonder if they would have still refused to put out the fire if he was in the house at the time
Can you imagine the hilarity that would have ensued if the guy had paid the $75 fee, but the fire department was claiming otherwise because of a clerical error?
No one needs to be confused All the people involved with watching are not emergency service personnel & are a Disgrace & don’t deserve any respect. I have showed this video to Real Fireman which are 100% Shocked & can’t believe this really happened.
If that had been my property I & those communist wanted to watch I would have given them one warning to leave my property.
It is one thing not to respond but another to watch like you are at the movies.
As for the assault that is just a small part of what these jerks needed.
They deserve every bad thing that comes their way & I personally hope they get punished.
So first, people whine and complain that they have to pay taxes, because of course they are infinitely qualified to determine what is a fair tax rate without any knowledge of what it costs to pay the people, acquire vehicles, etc.
Then, when actually put on a for profit system like they claim would be better, they freak out and get upset when someone wouldn’t do it for free.
And don’t complain that “well he offered to pay them right there!” Firefighters and emergency workers need to eat to, and they need to eat more than just “whenever a fire actually occurs.” If they would of took his money, people would just not pay at all until a problem actually occurred, and the firefighters would either starve or have to do something else in the interim. Hmmm, firefighters who have already done a full days work, and would be tired and stressed called to do one of the most tiring and stressful jobs possible in the middle of the night. Yah, that is a model for safety and efficiency.
Like it or not people who setup institutions that required taxation were not all high off their ass or stupid. It made really good sense to pay firefighters out of taxes. The neo-con movement seems to think they are all smarter than those who came before them.
There are many implications here:
1. Liability. Why should that fire department take on unnecessary the unnecessary liability associated with his fire? The firefighters could get hurt. The firefighters might accidentally damage another part of the property when there is no agreement for them to be there at all. What if the firefighters are using their resources to put out his fire…. and they get another call?
2. This guy did not pay. Why should the tax payers in another municipality pay for the service and expense associated with putting out his fire?
3. If they put out his fire, why would *anyone* outside of the municipality pay the $75 to fund the fire department?
It is a sad thing to have happened, but I can completely understand the reasoning behind the policy. This guy pays no taxes to support the service, he didn’t pay the fee, and he got what he paid for.
Another sign of the fall of America. So sad. Literally, this country is going up in flames. BTW, those South Fulton firemen are scum.
For a better example, let’s say you live in a country that doesn’t have very good health-care (Mexico for instance) so when you get pregnant and are having your baby, you jump the border to the closest country(let’s say the US) and use their county ran hospital. You don’t pay for the services, and thus are forcing others (tax payers in the county) to pay for the medical bills. Do you think this would cause a problem with the taxpayers?
Same principle applies, someone lives outside the area that has good fire protection, so when your house catches on fire, you jump the border (so to speak) to the nearest fire department and try to use their city ran fire department. You don’t pay for the services, and thus would be forcing others to pay for the department bills. So the taxpayers aren’t paying for that service, which is the agreed upon contract.
It’s sad he lost his house, but it is his fault. He didn’t do what was required in the contract for him to do, so he doesn’t get the service. It is really and truly that simple. I understand it’s an extreme (real life) example, but Americans like to go around thinking that they can have their way no matter happens. Life just doesn’t work like that. You don’t pay something you should, there are real life consequences.
It is just an extremely sad indication of our society that so many people feel that it was okay for firefighters to watch a man’s house burn down because he didn’t pay a $75 fee.
The only standard to reach that conclusion is based on the money, with no value system in place to consider that a person was in trouble and that other people had the ability to help him, but did not because a fee was not paid. And if it was just about the money, didn’t the man offer to pay at that point, is it realistic to think they wouldn’t have gotten their fee even afterwards?
What if there were people trapped in the house – then would it still be okay that for lack of a $75 fee that people were left to die? I am guessing that more than a few commenters would believe that as long as a fee wasn’t pay in advance with the proper paperwork filed, then people deserve to not only lose their home but their lives. Because after all, money has to be made, right? God forbid a person get help if they haven’t paid their fee – what would become of society, then?
I’ve been places where there was no fire department, no trained firefighters and no special equipment, but neighbors with buckets of water and hoses came to the aid of their neighbor to stop a house fire. It would be unthinkable not to do so. But in a ‘civilized’ society, with all capacity to assist, these firefighters refused to help? And in a ‘civilized’ society we have so many people who agree and seem gleeful that this man’s house did catch on fire when it hadn’t paid his fees. It isn’t because of any real dislike for the person, but an overriding focus on the need for proper fees to be paid. We should all be so lucky to have our ‘fees paid’ when we need other people to help us.
Yes, the man should have realized that we generally live in a society where most people don’t act out of concern for other human beings, but based strictly on proper fee procedures and a glee for seeing others punished when they don’t pay their fees.
It was just a house. Stop acting like they stood by and watched a guy bleed out because he did not pay his bill.
The sad part is that people refuse to take responsibility for their actions and EXPECT others to sacrifice when they try to take a shortcut.
Have fun in your silly self-righteous bubble.
That said,
I also want to say that the number of people who expressed disgust at the complete absence of human decency shown by firefighters in letting a man’s house burn down because he didn’t pay a $75 in advance (because he was offering to pay right at that time, and even if he couldn’t would have paid it afterwards, even if in small installments, heck, if I heard the story I WOULD, and surely others would, have helped this man pay his 75 bucks fee) makes me happy that at least not everyone is just a bag of self-centered flesh.
Sounds like a good reason to either join the existing fire district with the $75 annual fee or create a new fire district, hire a chief, firefighters, union, and then buy a fire truck or two and all of the equipment to go with it.
I bet he was paying higher fire insurance premiums if he told his insurance company that he refused to be covered by the existing district. Wait for his complaint that the fire insurance company refuses to pay as he mis-stated his fire district covedrage. Why should they pay for a total loss if he could have mitigated their loss, too.
Its sad but this is like me not paying my car insurance and then offering to pay AFTER i have a crash………
I agree with the comment that he gambled and lost
What we see here, besides the obvious inhumanity and lack of decency, is the failure for there to be a contingency plan to put out fires for those who don’t pay the fee. This could have been simple, but no one thought ahead. All they have to do is develop a policy which the homeowner has to sign before firefighting begins which offers up a fee that covers the entire cost of the actions of the firefighters plus a “service charge” for opting not to pay the annual fee (something on the order of $1,000-$5,000 to make it unappealing to avoid the annual fee). This allows the firefighters to make a better choice and the homeowners to essentially take a gamble.
Standing around and watching the house burn should never have been the contingency.
What kind of person would sit idle, having the skill to stop or prevent damage or tragedy, yet do nothing? It is disgusting. Money should not be the deciding factor here- morals? ethics? helping one’s neighbors? human decency? This is more telling of the individuals who did nothing, than the idiotic rule regarding emergency services.
“Shit, I was just in a car accident, can I buy insurance?”
“Did you not have insurance BEFORE the accident?”
“No, I’d like to buy some now and I want it to be retroactive.”
Sure we take the high road now, AFTER the fire. Everytime a new tax comes up, I would be willing to bet everyone votes it down. Tax levy…No, Fire Support…No, etc…
No one likes taxes, but it is this verything that taxes pay for. $75 for the year, heck most people pay more for cable, cell phone service, eating out…do the math. It was not paid, he took a gamble that they still would come out, he said it himself. I figured they would still do it…
Many outer neighborhoods are doing this to get away and then when they think about garbage, fire, police, etc…All of a sudden a few bucks a month does not seem so bad. Private police? Private Fire? Private garbage? Sounds sweet until the bill comes.
An I would bet the Firefighters were told to stand fast, not that they were heartless, but who would pay for the gas, time, water to fight this fire? No one comments on that, you can bet the water dept sends a bill to the fire dept and they pay. Maybe reduced, maybe not, but someone pays someone.
As a volunteer firefighter I want to say this about LODD and dis-obeying orders:
If I am killed inside my district or out of it while on a mutual aid call, following a safe and lawful order, my wife and her son are compensated.
If my wife is killed inside our district or out of it while on a mutual aid call, following a safe and lawful order, her son and I are compensated.
If you are outside of your district and acting AGAINST AN ORDER WHICH IS DEEMED SAFE AND ACCORDING TO THE DEPARTMENT SOP/SOG and you are killed or injured, you/your family gets nothing. Does it suck that the family lost everything? Hell yes. Does it suck that the firefighters had to put out a field fire while the next door house burned? Hell yes. Should you blame the firefighters that are put in the middle of a dispute which concerns the MAYOR and NOT the fire chief? HELL NO.
The chief was assaulted because he followed what is in the town’s charter. Is it fair? No, I don’t feel it is. In this day and age a district should be able to stand on it’s own two feet. Our small department has less than 20 active members, yet we hold fundraisers and write for grants to get our equipment/training. The fee? $1 per month on everyone’s water bill. That’s it. Will we EVER not go to a call? NO. Will we ever not put the wet stuff on the red stuff? HELL NO. However, if the town went to a subscription-based service, I would follow my chief’s orders.
According to an article at firehouse.com, if someone is in a critical situation, they will evacuate the person(s) and stand back if they have not paid the fee. Is it proper? Most would say no, some would say yes. If you were in my boots and had to walk inside of a burning building knowing you could die and your family wasn’t taken care of because the homeowner couldn’t pay the fee, you wouldn’t either. Will I walk inside a burning house in my fire district now? Hell yes I will. This is my community. I am here to serve it with pride, honor and dignity. Oh, and no, we do not have subscriptions. If the person doesn’t pay their water bill, we still take care of them (it’s in our town charter).
The thing is, it’s easier for us to say, “Oh, well, he should have paid,” because on this occasion, no one died. What happens if you have a family of six with four small children who haven’t paid their fee? Do the firefighters just refuse to show up, as they did here, while a couple of kids are trapped in the house and go down with it? I can sort of understand showing up and refusing to do anything more than required to ensure that no one dies or the fire doesn’t spread, but to fail to go to the scene until the neighbor calls and reports that the fire has spread to his property? Totally unacceptable.
The fire department in question should be thanking their lucky stars that no one was killed, or this backlash would be even worse than it already is.
reguardless of them not paying, yes they are stupid for doing so, but reguardless this is absolutely unacceptable. in this country it is a law that you cannot be denied medical care especially in a emergency situation. they couldve made the attempt to put out the house and then bill for the 75$ and to be honest, if this is a paid company, it cost the tax payers alot more money to have them all sit there doing nothing, then the mundane 75$./year people pay to have their house protected. i hope this family can find some loop hole and sue them for everytrhing they can…absolutely unacceptable….
YOU WANT PROTECTION ? YOU GOTTA PAY FOR IT SEE !!!
This is absolutely disgusting.
What has America become?
It looks like this family already got one free pass a few years ago. The neighboring fire department put out a fire even though they didn’t pay their fee.
http://www.claimsjournal.com/news/southeast/2010/10/05/113824.htm
I’ll try to find the link again, but I read that because they didn’t put out the fire, three dogs and a cat were killed.
That’s unacceptable. The firefighters and whomever made the decision not to do a darn thing should be arrested for cruelty to animals.
Go in and get the animals (dogs would be easier, cat maybe not) and then step back and watch it burn. But to leave them in there? That makes me sick.
There isn’t a fire department in the country that will put human lives on the line to save an animal.
This person lived outside the town in question’s jurisdiction. He did not pay any taxes to that town. As such, they were under no obligation to respond his fire, just as they have no obligation to provide police, maintain the roads, or provide any other public service.
The person who’s home burned chose not to contract for fire protection. Since he lived in a jurisdiction that did not provide it, he chose to gamble he would not need it. When you gamble, sometimes you win, and sometimes you lose. He lost.
And this is why the small government approach by the ring wing is damaging America. I love that somehow it is a complex system for this county to calculate how much each property payer should pay for fire coverage yet they have to do the same thing for schools and the basic county tax
The guy forgot to pay a fee he has paid in the past, we offered to pay it and more before the fire fighters came out and put out the fire in the field next to him. It is just sickening that some pinhead town manager will let a property burn down because of a $75 fee.
NO SYMPATHY! A subscription-based fire department is no different than insurance. It’s sad but a necessary experience. Otherwise, how would these fire departments get funding? Volunteer fire departments spend a lot of time fundraising with with bingo, carnivals, and other fundraising campaigns.
So what would happen if my car caught on fire as a tourist driving through this area? I’d bet you the fire would be put out and I would be given a bill.
You mean to tell me someone has a list at the ready of who has paid and who hasn’t?
This is quite common in rural america… Not as common as it used to be, as most rural areas have gone from membership departments (annual fee for protection) to districts with property tax support.
If he calls an insurance company that he didn’t already have a policy with and offer to pay the policy amount after the fire, do you think they would agree? This is the same thing. It is insurance that you must prepay. Why would anyone pay the fee if you could just pay after a fire? The Fire Company wouldn’t be able to stay afloat. People do not understand what it takes to keep a volunteer fire company operational. Which is why there will soon not be any volunteer departments. And trust me. You will pay a lot more in taxes when your community goes to totally paid departments. These people had a bargain but decided they deserved something for free that everyone else had to pay for.
I just shed a tear for the death of the commons.
Firefighters don’t take a Hippocratic Oath. They fall under jurisdictions and protocols, and I imagine they are often times stuck somewhere in the middle of “be a @#& human†and “lose your job for not following the rulesâ€. Anyone who thinks a firefighter’s job is to stop a fire from simply ruining property doesn’t understand the entire concept that they are there to save LIVES – and if they happen to save your house in the process of saving you, even better. In this case, no lives were at stake, and if there were they would’ve had the obligation to go in and save.
Sadly, this gentleman made a gamble and lost. It’s sad that his home is gone, but it’s a lot easier to replace than he is.
Don’t blame the guy who didn’t pay $75 for fire protection. Don’t blame the firefighters for following protocol and not trying to save 4 walls and a roof. Neither are at fault. It seems like a crack in the state/local government is.
Wow..disgusting if you ask me. Okay so he didn’t pay, and I’m sure he knew the consequences, but does that mean he should loose EVERYTHING he has over $75 as the house burnt to the ground? How can the firefighters be so heartless? I’m sure this isn’t that common of a scenario..
This is unbelievable and frightening.
I never thought that something like that could happen in a civilized country.
I guess I am not going to complain about the taxes I pay in my contry anymore.
At least, should my house catch fire, I know that someone would try and estinguish it.
I wonder if the fire department in this town would have moved in case of presence of people in the burning house.
So given that the fire department wouldn’t even come out to the house to make sure none of the neighbors’ houses caught fire (it took a neighbor’s property catching just to get a truck out there), what happens when either a neighbor’s property catches and goes up like a tinderbox because the wind changes or the department refuses to send anyone out, and it turns out a kid dies or something because they were in the house, and their parents refused to pay the fee? Heck, even if someone doesn’t die, could you imagine being a kid and watching your house burn while a bunch of firefighters stand around and do nothing? Good luck explaining fees and unincorporated county land then.
Is this surprising? I live in Alaska where you can choose to live in an area that has fire and/or road service, or not. If you’re not in a service area, they show up if you’re on the edge of a service area and watch while your structure burns (they show up to make sure that neighboring structures don’t catch fire as well). This happened at my husband’s work and it burned to the ground while the fire crew watched…lesson learned, they joined the fire service area. People also fight fires for themselves in small communities (villages) without a fire service, it’s completely possible to do.
When we were shopping for a house, we had to get one that had both fire and road service (fire alone doesn’t do you a lot of good if the road to your house is impassable during winter) to get a mortgage and insurance. We pay a (relative) arm and leg (16 mills!) for taxes and services, but we enjoy the services that the taxes pay for.
What if they fought this fire and while they were another fire started with someone who had paid and their house burns down because the fire crew was fighting a fire they shouldnt have.
You are a Idiot because either way the other house would have burned down since they watched the guys house burn down while parked with at equipment & Lowlifes that think they are Fireman.
I still hope they all get what they deserve especially the mayor & Chief
they would have been able to leave and go fight the other fire, waiting there doesn’t mean they cant leave, but if they are actively fighting the fire they cannot leave.
What if one of the firemen died putting out this guys house?
Its a house, its some sheet metal maybe some wood and rocks.
As for the animals would you risk your life for an animal and if you died your family got absolutely nothing because you were doing something that wasn’t covered by life insurance?
also facts that are missing, the guy set the fire himself and the fire department had previously given him a freebie.
So with you logic we should let all houses & buildings burn so no one gets hurt trying to put them out. WOW Great Idea & this should eliminate the need for Fireman LOL.
As for risking my life I have done this more than once for animals & I would again because I have morals & a continuous & never have been good at taking orders from anyone.
I can see both sides, but really? Who lets a fire burn?
I see nothing wrong with this. If we could get Republicans or Libertarians in office there would be no big government because we would privatize it. Waste would stop and we would have more money left over for other things. I’m a Christian and proud to be an American and I take personal responsibility. I don’t expect somebody else to everything for me. Why can’t everybody else?