Every so often Southwest Airlines arbitrarily and incorrectly decides that someone is too fat to fly in a single seat. These are people who have regularly flown Southwest in the past and can fit themselves in one seat without a problem. Prior to now, none were cult celebrities with more than a million and a half Twitter followers and a smartphone. Then an air captain declared filmmaker Kevin Smith a “safety risk,” and all hell broke loose. Update: Southwest has responded.
Yes, Kevin Smith tweeted that Southwest Airlines kicked him off a flight. Yes, it was purportedly because of his weight. Southwest’s Twitter rep apologized (as did the VP of Customer Relations) once the incident took Twitter by storm. Smith took the opportunity to point out that the prompt apology was only because of his fame, and the same exact thing happens arbitrarily to other passengers who also shop in the plus-size section.
Fuck making it right for me just ’cause I have a platform. I sat next to a big girl who was chastised for not buying an extra ticket because “all passengers deserve their space.” Fucking flight wasn’t even full! Fuck your size-ist policy. Rude…
We’ve written about similar incidents here at Consumerist before, and are glad Smith is bringing more attention to the issue.
Update: Southwest has posted their response to Smith’s tweets. Their explanation: He had booked two seats for himself, but chose to take an earlier flight standby when there was only one seat available.
The airline explains:
Mr. Smith originally purchased two Southwest seats on a flight from Oakland to Burbank – as he’s been known to do when traveling on Southwest. He decided to change his plans and board an earlier flight to Burbank, which technically means flying standby. As you may know, airlines are not able to clear standby passengers until all Customers are boarded. When the time came to board Mr. Smith, we had only a single seat available for him to occupy. Our pilots are responsible for the Safety and comfort of all Customers on the aircraft and therefore, made the determination that Mr. Smith needed more than one seat to complete his flight. Our Employees explained why the decision was made, accommodated Mr. Smith on a later flight, and issued him a $100 Southwest travel voucher for his inconvenience.
Kevin Smith [Twitter]
Customer of Size Q&A [Southwest Airlines]
Not So Silent Bob [Southwest Airlines Blog]
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Jeez, it’s not like he’s Michael Moore fat.
He’s pretty darned fat. Last time on the tonight show he told the story of how he BROKE A PORCELAIN TOILET because he was so fat. That’s FAT. Supposedly he was going to fat camp to get a handle on his issue, but apparently that hasn’t happened.
How could he, SW wouldn’t let him fly there!
That doesn’t even matter. Nobody no matter their size should be tossed off of a flight that is not full and harassed by an airline. I hope KS makes Southwest regret this. He’s right that the only reason he was apologized to was because of his celebrity status. People who are not well known get the same abusive treatment.
Well the real issue isn’t that he’s a celeb per se, but that many other people (i.e. potential customuers) are aware of the situation and watching what SW does in response. In this case it’s because he’s Kevin Smith and has a million plus twitter followers. Ordinary people can get that kind of recognition of their situations too, for example, thanks to Consumerist.
So rather than individuals taking responsibility for themselves its up to the airlines to design larger seats to fit larger asses? I’m sorry but if you get kicked off a plane because you’re too large then that should be a sign and a kick in the pants for people to take some corrective action.
Or maybe it is south’s fault, after all, if Cedar point can afford to put chairs of their roller coasters outside each entrance, surely an airport can do the same? Besides if we all agree that we should follow a few people in what is acceptable and what is not. We might as well have socialism everywhere because that’s the way you want it. I mean, if you want people to fit your expectations and do what you want them to that is what you are saying after all, right?
No, it’s the part where the flight wasn’t full that’s the problem. If the flight’s not full, there are at least two seats to accomodate Kevin Smith’s ass. Of course people should take responsibility, but maybe the stupid flight attendants and captain should’ve exercised some common sense.
I would totally agree, but Southwest makes the statement pretty clear upon check in that they reserve the right to charge you for an extra seat, not label you a “safety risk” and eject you from the plane. Especially when you’ve been booked on the flight already. “Safety risk” would indicate that he’s done something wrong and he clearly didn’t from what’s being stated here. The airline’s even apologized for their actions. Clearly, despite his choice to be overweight, the airline was in the wrong.
My dad is not even remotely fat, and he can barely squeeze into a ridiculous full-size (not even going to go into the joke that is commuter) plane seat. He is, however, tall. As a matter of fact he is well over 6′ tall and has to be careful standing in a plane, in the center aisle. FYI, plane seats have gotten considerably “smaller” over the years. I remember when it was only a slight inconvenience for my dad to fly coach and not get an exit row… Nowadays, it’s a safety hazard and he is near his ideal weight.
I can GUARANTEE that anyone sitting next to him on a flight will have trouble if he’s in coach, not because he’s “fat” but because he’s too tall and the seats aren’t designed to fit a healthy person. One leg will practically be stuck in the aisle, the other will be wedged behind the seat, heaven forbid if the person in front of him wants to recline the seat or you want to use an armrest or need him to stand quckly. He is a safety risk, but not because he’s overweight. He’s a risk because of years of SHRINKING seats and row sizes, not because he weighs ~240lbs-250lbs.
Think before you post epic fail.
Actually, Michael Moore lost quite a bit of weight – I saw him doing the talk show circuit after he made Sicko, and it looks like he lost about 50 pounds – he’s still big, but not as big as before.
No, he’s actually fatter than Michael Moore.
Probably the wrong fatty to kick off that plane.
LOL…wrong person to kick off..
Southwest Airlines – “Picked the wrong week to stop sticking my finger down my throat.”
Regardless of who he is, if he’s all up on the seat and over it on me I’d want him to purchase another seat as well. Go on a diet then cry about them kicking you off.
However, his F-bomb dropping tweets on twitter that don’t stop even after the rep has apologized kind of… sway my sympathy for the guy.
In his defense, (1) Kevin Smith can’t communicate without F-bombs, and more importantly (2) He knows that he got a prompt apology only because of who he is and the platform he has. He’s standing up for other, non-famous fatties.
yep, apparently including the woman he was sitting near on the flight they DID let him on later who was spoken to about not buying a second seat [according to his tweets]
A comedy writer/director who spends an hour every week ranting and raving on a very popular podcast rants and raves for ~20 tweets about something that bugs him, without changing his speaking style at all? Probably making more out of this than there is. I’d probably react the same way.
Profanity?! On the Internets?! You don’t say!
Get over yourself. It’s a configuration of letters. If you have an issue with it, then it is YOUR issue to deal with.
I’ll fetch you a fainting couch.
Knowing Southwest, they probably had a contest on the plane for the passenger that could sing the best cut down of passengers they don’t like.
I like employee empowerment but sometimes it turns into an employee not being able to look at their own decisions objectively.
Someone’s never been to fucking New Jersey.
Frakking-A man,
Even then, I suppose he should be commended for making it through an entire 90-minute SModcast, devoted solely to this incident, without somehow involving his comically small dick. See, he IS showing restraint!
He is totally just being himself. He has said he doesn’t want anything from them. He’s just calling them out. If he wanted something from them, then maybe it would matter that he is dropping f-bombs like the world depended on it. This is public shaming. Language doesn’t count.
Oh yes it does. Language counts. He loses all credibility with me because he can’t control his mouth. If he thinks that F-bombs make him sound angrier or smarter or more deserving of an audience, he’s wrong on all counts.
he’s not really talking to you. His audience likes the way he talks.
Yep. We do. Also, the issue is Southwest’s inability to provide good customer service unless they’re being called out by a celebrity, NOT Kevin Smith’s vocabulary. Get off the soapbox.
Swearing doesn’t mean he can’t control his language – perhaps he’s in total control, and has decided to use “fuck” because he thinks it’s the most appropriate word to describe what he’s describing.
I’m sure he had tons of credibility with you in the first place, right? He’s not swearing AT their CSRs, which would be completely out of line; he’s swearing in his Tweets to people who voluntarily subscribe to them. I’m surprised you don’t see the difference.
And you lost all credibility with me. Isn’t this game fun?!
I guess I don’t really have to reply, as everyone has already pointed it out.
He isn’t addressing his concerns with the company, he is venting to those that will listen, which happens to be over 1 million followers on his twitter. I say ‘Fuck it. He can say whatever the fuck he wants.’
Thank you. It’s not like he’s swearing in an email to a rep, or on the phone with a rep, he’s swearing on his twitter. Some may say that twitter is the only way to get attention from a company, but that’s a crappy ass policy. You shouldn’t have to twitter to be heard by customer service. Besides, if I learned anything from Communication 101, words don’t have meaning. People give words meaning.
I hate, hate, absolutely hate the F word, but I do try not to be so shallow as to dismiss someone simply because they use it.
Kevin Smith is extraordinarily intelligent. Foul language has nothing to do with intelligence. I seriously doubt he thinks it makes him look cool or smart. He is just being him. SW deserves it too.
Words only have the power to offend when you give them that power. Why is copulate not offensive while Fuck is? If I call someone a mother copulator am I not implying the same as if I called them a mother fucker? It’s not the words anyone should be worried about its the feelings behind those words and whom they are directed at. In Mr. Smith’s case he’s using them as a general expletive not directed at anyone in particular. In fact there’s been some sociology studies that suggest swearing in the workplace helps relieve stress… In fact I believe Consumerist even posted it.
Totally agree with you. Indicates the mentatlity of “customers” today for the most part, the ends justify the means, even if it means acting in a manner far worse than the business in terms of language and demeanor.
Except he’s not calling them out for kicking him off the plane; he’s calling out the company in general because he disagrees with their policy, and (rightly) pointing out that they’re only apologizing to him because he has 1.6 million Twitter followers. If it had been anyone else, they wouldn’t be taking it seriously.
There’s a chance people wouldn’t believe it was really him talking if he didn’t swear his a** off about it :p That’s his image, after all…
It’s Kevin Smith we’re talking about here… he curses when he breathes. Nothing to see here, move along.
You are probably unfamiliar with Kevin Smith. He’s one of our best social intellectuals, but he doesn’t restrain his language for the kiddies.
If by “our” you are referring to the Society Of Social Non-intellectuals, then perhaps you are correct.
Whaaaat? I think you’re trolling. Your icon is some kind of besuited contortionist with his head up his — oh, what shall I call it without offending you — tuchus, a patently offensive and rather icky icon, and yet you’re doing that thing where you claim that an argument is void if it contains a certain combination of letters?
I think you’re trolling.
Could someone explain to me how being fat could possibly be a “security risk?”
Sorry, a “safety risk.”
Reading comprehension approaches zero as time approaches midnight…
ahhh, logarithmic functions.
Apparently, if the plane crashes they can hold up other passengers trying to escape the burning wreckage.
Because all that flab accounts for more than 3 fl oz.
I snorted.
(And I’m a “customer of size” ha)
Maybe it’s a security risk in the exit row if people can’t get past you, but otherwise, I don’t get it either.
If you have two legs and are flammable, you are never blocking a fire exit.
RIP Mitch Hedberg
it says SAFETY not SECURITY. they think it’ll cause a plane crash, they don’t think he’s a terrorist
Hopefully a good boycott will put them out of business now.
Are you crazy? Southwest is by far the best, most customer oriented airline in the US. Their customer service is legendary, their fares are reasonable, their on-time and baggage handling record is among the best of any airline (and for a number of years, was #1). And unlike JetBlue, they don’t charge outrageous rebook fees, or charge for pillows and blankets, or any of the other nickel-and-dime strategies.
The policy itself is reasonable, unless they’ve changed it. They do not charge for a second seat unless the flight is full, and if you buy the seat and the flight isn’t full, they refund the second seat charge. It’s a difficult issue because if they allow larger people on board without extra cost, then the people sitting next to them become upset, but if they charge them for an extra seat, the large people get upset. I believe their policy, *as written*, is sensible. The problem is just a few not-so-well-trained Southwest People.
Any company with tens of thousands of employees will have a few duds, but Southwest’s People Department (as they call it) seems to screen exceptionally well, as they have far, far fewer duds (both in my own personal experience and in the experiences of many others) than pretty much any other airline out there.
if you get charged for an extra seat, do you, in fact, get an extra seat? or do they simply charge you more for taking up more of your seat than the person next to you?
Conversely, if the flight is overbooked and a “person of size” volunteers to be bumped; will they receive two vouchers?
No, they receive a single voucher and a free sandwich.
What kind of Sammich?
And air sammich, fatty!
if I paid for two seats, I’d expect two vouchers. Oh, and a lovely turkey w/cranberry sauce, cream cheese & sunflower seeds on multi-grain bread.
Actually a lot of non-obese people prefer Southwest for exactly that reason. SW might get a fat person boycott, but from their perspective that’s a net positive.
Seriously? Put Southwest out of business? Sooooo which other major airline should I plan to use next, that is until some douche/boycotters put them out of business. Douche
Airline seats have shrunk over the years, people haven’t. I weigh 400 pounds, but I have a small wife and we just lift the arm between us. If they start charging me for an extra seat even though I’m not taking up an extra seat I will be furious. Kicking me off for being a ‘safety risk’ ?? They have no idea what kind of safety risk I could be when they piss me off.
In a world where airlines remove olives from the in flight meals to save weight, I guess the real problem is no longer how many seats they can cram in, it’s how much people weigh.
/agree
Since weight is what we are really talking about here (cost to the airline in the form of fuel), airlines really should just weigh us (along with our baggage) when we check in. It is really overdue.
I 100% agree… but just imagine the amount of hell that would be raised.
no (established) airline would want to be the first one…
a June Bizzaro comic was right on target about the issue of passengers and bag weight charges – http://bizarrocomic.blogspot.com/2009/06/horror.html
I can agree with yah. My shoulders stick out a lot and I dread the day when some desk rider makes me buy a second seat just to reign in my elbow overhang.
I weigh 200 lbs or slightly under depending on water weight and *I* am uncomfortable in their seats. and my shoulders will stick over.
270lbs, 6’3″. Not only do my shoulders stick over, but my knees bump into the front seat (on most planes anyway, Southwest was actually somewhat better in that department).
I just don’t think its fair to make someone pay for an entire extra seat because the airlines have cut airline seat width so much that anyone over 130 pounds is considered “too fat” to fit in one of these teensy tiny seats. If the airlines made their seat widths more ‘average sized’ incidents like this would likely never happen.
Kevin Smith’s left thigh alone is probably 130lbs.
These aren’t regular sized people being targeted here
But they make their seats such that only super skinny people or children are comfortable. One doesn’t have to be “fat” to be uncomfortable in the seat, nor extend over into the next seat. When men and women with wide shoulders that are not “fat” but still spill over into the next seat, making both people uncomfortable, that means the seats are too small in general.
You know, I weigh significantly more than 130 pounds, and I can fit in an airplane seat and be reasonably comfortable without spilling into the seat next to me. If anything, it’s my legs that start hurting because of the tiny amount of space between rows (and I’m not very tall).
I can sympathize with the people that are getting pulled off flights because they’re too heavy. I’m sure it’s humiliating, and I do think that Southwest needs to implement methods that ensure greater consistency of who is allowed to ride, who needs to buy another seat, et cetera. That said, I’m getting a little tired of some people pretending that the folks getting pulled off the plane are just a couple of pounds overweight. I’ve seen Kevin Smith, I’ve looked at some recent photos of the guy, and this isn’t someone who’s just slightly overweight. He’s obese. I don’t say that maliciously at all- it’s hard to lose weight, and just by reading some of his statements regarding his weight (both now and in the past), I think it’s evident that he’s pretty self-conscious about it, so I’m sure this incident hit a nerve in a variety of ways. But at the end of the day, I do believe that he’d be taking up more space than just his seat, and he’s a big guy. We’re talking about someone who sat on a toilet and broke it off its wall mount- this isn’t a case of a couple of pounds here or there.
All of that said, if he had no issues on his first flight, obviously something went wrong, and given that the second flight apparently wasn’t full, he should have been offered the opportunity to buy another seat. Southwest handled this poorly, no question, but I don’t really think it’s fair to pretend that the people to whom this has happened are “just a little overweight.” Based on what I’ve seen, I don’t think that’s the case.
I do agree that if one is very overweight where they really do take up significantly more than one seat (like a seat and a half or more), then they should do something (make the person buy an extra seat if the plane is otherwise full – although I’ve read reports of people that do that, yet still get kicked off planes or are forced to squeeze because the flight attendants want to put another person in that already paid for seat – and that’s not right).
But my complaint is that even for people who aren’t “fat” most seats are very uncomfortable because they are too thin/short for the average sized person. If the seats were made for average sized people (which is a size 14 for women, hello!), then there would be a lot less complaints from others about larger people infringing on their space.
A seat and a half? I get what you’re saying, but seriously, having spent thirteen hours on a flight while crammed next to a guy who probably took up a seat and a quarter, I’m going to say that if you’re overhanging your seat at all, you need to pay for an extra seat if it’s a full flight, or move to a seat where you’ll have an empty seat next to you. The idea that it’s not a problem so long as the heavier person is “only” taking up less than half a seat doesn’t strike me as equitable at all. Personally, I’d like to see Southwest provide measurements so that people can check themselves at home and see whether they need to buy two seats. There should also be sample seats available at each airport gate to check any marginal cases prior to boarding (heck, check everyone, if that will make people feel less like they stand out).
And like I said before, I am average sized. Size fourteen (well, between a fourteen and a twelve), certainly not super-skinny, weighing more than 130 pounds, and I’ve flown a lot (and recently) and had no trouble fitting in the seats. I didn’t find the seats themselves, in terms of their width, uncomfortable at all- it was purely the issue of pitch and leg room in relation to the next row. My entire family flies pretty frequently, and none of them have trouble fitting into the seats (we’re a pretty broad range of heights and weights). I feel like shrugging and saying, “Well, airline seats are so small, no one fits in them, unless they’re tiny!” is trying to pretend that the people getting yanked off of planes fall into the “average” size category, and without trying to be mean at all, they simply don’t. These are people who are obese- Kevin Smith is obese, and you only need to look at his picture to see that. The fact that someone’s not heavy enough to be buried in a piano case doesn’t mean they’re not obese and won’t infringe on other people’s space on a plane.
I’m sure there are exceptions and cases where someone who’s a linebacker or something has trouble fitting into an airplane seat (and not necessarily because of obesity). I suppose airlines could redesign their seats to make them wider, but we’ll end up paying for that, and then we’ll see a bunch of articles here on Consumerist complaining about how expensive plane tickets have gotten. As someone who flies often, that doesn’t exactly thrill me, especially given that I do fit into the seats as they are now, and I have no doubt that the airlines would bend everyone over and extract far more money from the refits than they actually spent.
This is an excellent point. I just got off a flight from Honolulu to Houston and the guy sitting next to me was not fat in any sense of the word, but he had broad shoulders. Not even really broad, not super buff, if you saw this guy on the street you wouldn’t look twice at him, but I spent the entire flight getting elbowed and crushed against the wall because the seats were so narrow.
What irks me is that no one would DREAM of suggesting he buy an extra seat, even though he was clearly in my space. If being fat is a security risk, how is that not also a security risk?
Yep. I was never comfortable in an airline seat, even when I was 50 lbs lighter – it’s always my shoulders and elbows that don’t have room.
(BTW, I don’t need an extender, and my gut doesn’t spill over – but how do I lose width off my shoulders?)
If the companies made their seats average sized, wouldn’t there still be plently of people who are bigger than average? I see it cutting down on the problem, but it wouldn’t get rid of it entirely. No matter how big the seats are, someone will always be bigger. Also, to play devil’s advocate, if there are less seats, I assume that the price of one seat would go up. I think it’s a lose lose situation for the airlines- do they choose to piss off the passenger, or the passengers who end up sitting next to the guy who may be taking up extra room? In this case, he had the armrest down, but what about the times where the passenger can’t get the armrests down?
Hi5, heavy brother! My wife and I do the exact same thing.
Oddly, while the seats are uncomfortable, I can squeeze my fat ass into one with the arm rests down. I did it on our trip to Florida for our honeymoon no problem… one extension, sit straight down, and I’m in. It’s not comfy at all, but it works. Guess that means they can’t charge me for the extra seat.
You weigh 2 1/2 times what I weigh dude. Why the hell shouldn’t I be offered a discount? WTF
You already are… the seats are already tight. You’re not exactly paying for first class.
I weight under half that weight and I am not comfortable in a coach seat, how can the poor person next to you be comfortable if you are taking all that space in one seat. While it seems unfair, it is also unfair to the person sitting next to you.
It’s a good thing you weren’t on the Japan Airlines flight I took from Tokyo to San Francisco recently. There was no one next to me, but the arm rest, which was extremely fat, did not lift, by design. I fit okay into a coach seat, but I wouldn’t have minded a bit more room. Too bad for me.
Honest question: I assume that you put up the armrest so that part of you can comfortably be in your wife’s seat, correct? Have you ever flew without your wife, or sitting separate from her, or with someone else sitting on the other side of you? What happens in that situation?
I have flown alone a few times. Luckily, the planes were nearly empty most the time. Once, I did hang out in the isle, but that was chartered flight full of coworkers. On the return they put me in first class. The first class seat was the same size, only it had six inches between. I will not fly without my wife and we will be in ‘economy’ as the first class seats do not have arms you can move out of the way.
Ft ppl smll. ht sttng nxt t thm n plns. mn pls, wp yr crck/s.
Hm. No, I think that stench is definitely troll-like.
Thanks to whoever edited my post beyond comprehension.
You’re new around here aren’t you? Get to know your punishment, I foresee many in your future. http://consumerist.com/2008/08/consumerist-site-design-tweaked.html
The disemvowelling was warranted. Your comment was not only offensive, it was pointless and inane. If you’re going to troll, at least try to include a modicum of cleverness – we get enough garden-variety trolls around here and don’t need you to join them.
Mean, hurtful and NOT funny? Go back to YouTube, ass.
And you never will.
I’m fat (5’8, 240), but smell usually with a faint tinge of Old Spice deodorant, if anything.
I’ll gladly put a skinny hipster reeking of American Spirit smoke and their oozing ear plug next to you.
I agree, nobody wants to sit next to a sweaty fat guy hanging over their seat for any amount of time, but certainly not for several hours. I don’t think Smith qualifies as your average “sweaty fat guy”, but anyone over 300 lbs certainly does.
Maybe Kevin Smith can be a part of another airline’s marketing campaign:
“At Virgin America, although we charge you $20 to check-in your 50 pound suitcase, unlike Southwest Airlines, we will not charge you $100 if you are 50 pounds overweight.”
And SWA (and their respective employees responsible for this) picked a bad time to act superior, with all of the press he’s going to be doing over the coming weeks for COP OUT.
You win. ^.^ You’re absolutely right, and that sounds absolutely like something the Virgin CEO could get philosophically behind.
exactly… and the “50 lbs” comment was generous. try 80 or 90
haha…oh man..someone is probably kicking themselves now…the worst thing you can do is offend a consumerist employee
Wait.. A what? Do you think Kevin Smith is a Consumerist blogger? You were born in 1982? Where, in Botswana?
Um..Kevin Smith is a well known movie star as well as director. He did Clerks, Dogma and alot more.
I know he’s gotten a bit bigger in more recent years, but he’s not THAT huge.
That’s always been my opinion. I”m a big Smith fan (listen to SModcast every week), and he always goes on and on about his weight. Honestly I never thought of him as that fat. Above average maybe, but not gargantuan by any means.
If you catch the right shots of him, he is VERY big. He openly admits that he chooses clothing styles that will intentionally hide his size. He also admitted that on his ‘evening with…’ DVDs they’re shot in a technical manner to make him appear thinner than he is. Watch some of the extras on his DVDs and pay attention to him. He’s a damn big guy. Funny as all hell and the nicest guy you could ever meet, but a big guy none-the-less.
For someone Kevin Smith’s height, he should weigh 180, tops. I don’t want to guesstimate his weight, but it’s not 180.
Have you seen the photo of him on Wired.com on their Macworld story? Guy looks like he’s standing in front of a funhouse mirror.
Here’s a link to the picture referenced on wired.com — yes, he’s gotten larger in the last few years, but if the armrests come down then by their own regulations they didn’t have any reason to kick him off the flight.
http://www.wired.com/gadgetlab/2010/02/kevin-smith/
I’m not a huge Kevin Smith fan, but it’s my understanding based on the few interviews that I’ve seen is that he’s very proud and unapologetic of his weight. If I understand his general attitude correctly, it sort of takes away some of the sympathy factor for me, for someone to be that unhealthy and not seem to care. While it certainly doesn’t excuse poor customer policy by Southwest, personal responsibility plays a small role here.
I love kevin smith, he’s funny as hell, but have you seen him lately? he’s become so big that when his feet come out of his over sized pants it looks like he’s on stilts.
If you take two seats, you should have to pay for two seats.
Its only fair.
And if you bother read the tweets, you will know he fit in ONE seat WITH the armrest down.
He didn’t take two seats, was not asked to buy a second, and was kicked off after putting his bag up, sitting down, and lowering the armrest. This is another case of Southwest arbitrarily enforcing a poorly designed rule.
I hate to mention this but that armrest test, welllll, it isn’t always a really good test. I am short and petite and used to have to fly a great deal for my job. It was a very rare occasion where I was seated next to someone who crowded into my seat but it did happen. Even though friends have joked that I don’t need a whole seat myself, even I was kind of squished to the side for the entire flight because the guy’s arms, shoulders, and legs were partially in my seat too. It was an uncomfortably long flight and I was grateful to get off. I have yet to come up with how to resolve such a situation so that everyone is treated fairly, including the squished petite people who count too.
I understand. I would be annoyed, too. Isn’t Southwest supposed to have a seat test for people they think may not fit before boarding the plane? Waiting until someone is seated and comfortable is embarrassing and unnecessary.
As one of those smaller people who often gets squished – spare me, OK? I get crowded out a lot less by fat people than by middle-aged white guys who have an overdeveloped sense of the amount of space God directly decreed they can occupy, and I don’t see Southwest throwing THEM off planes.
I’m pretty sure that men spread their legs in inverse proportion to how much they’ve actually got down there.
Crap. Something else to worry if I’m overcompensating for…
For those who would write to get over it. I wasn’t rude in my comments nor derogatory. I wasn’t asking for anyone’s sympathy or lack thereof. I was stating a real situation and further asking the general question if there was really good solution here that won’t offend others. I haven’t always been petite and take extreme offense when anyone is judged by their size. The anonymity of the web seems to encourage the abandonment of civility which I think spills over into personal encounters. In other words, everyone is getting more rude by the day. Further proof can be derived from this very story when even a business feels that kindness, civility, and general politeness are not a tenant of conducting business any longer.
I doubt the arm rest test, he doesn’t have a huge ass. His bulk is higher up, so he would simply dominate the seat space above the arm rest area in a way that would violate your personal space.
I get the distinct sense that there is going to be some firings at southwest.
HA! If only. They’ll probably get promoted. It was the pilot after all, he won’t even hear about it unless he’s a twitter user.
It is amazing how subjective rules have become with airlines these days. Seems like the complete opposite of most industries where employees aren’t granted any flexibility in interpretation or enforcement of the “rules”.
GRAAAAND. Am now scared for my flight next month. I’m a bigger girl, but 100% fit in my own seat with the arms down and the seat belt fastened, no extender needed. I know this because I regularly sit in the tiny seats at the Energy Solutions Arena. I fit JUST FINE. It however seems that the people on Southwest haphazardly enforce/don’t enforce the rules.
I can’t afford a second seat, and my ego can’t handle the harassment. I’d cry of humiliation.
Oh and to the ass who’ll say lose weight? I’m down 5 pounds, TYVM.
congrats on the weight loss!
/high five
Weight Watchers.
Although all my friends are doing the HCG thing, and the weight seems to just be melting off them. Me, I’m working for every single pound. Of course, I do eat, versus them basically not eating.
My company knows that I will not accept a seat assignment on a Southwest flight. It hasn’t been a problem at all. I can lower both armrests just fine, by the way, and I could last year before I lost fifty pounds. (Yes, I said FIFTY, and I could still fit into a standard economy seat on British Airways.) But it’s just not worth the hassle.
incidentally, I asked our company travel office about it recently, and i found out they basically just don’t use Southwest. Folks, I work for an international company that employs over 40,000 people on every single continent and thinks nothing of flying twenty people to Houston from Dubai for a week for training. My boss travels two weeks of every month to places like Singapore and Moscow. I’ve flown to Dubai, Hannover, Aberdeen, Calgary, and five or six places in the US in a two-year period, and I would fly more if I didn’t prefer to drive anywhere within an eight-hour radius. Southwest would love to get our business, but they just don’t have it. Boo hoo for them.
I wouldn’t be too scared. I come from a family where the guys are fairly large and we went on a family vacation recently, flew 3 different Southwest flights and had absolutely no problems. The key is that this rule is extremely arbitrary and unless you’re stop and stare large, from my experience it’s unenforced.
I think that’s the main reason why this rule is so overwhelmingly stupid. In any case where people a rule is enforced through employee’s arbitrary sight judgment, mistakes are going to be made. For example , we all know that if our carry-on doesn’t fit into the little test box or exceeds the size requirements, it is not technically allowed on the plane. If Southwest wants this rule, they need to either create clear, specific, quantitative guidelines that passengers know beforehand and employees can easily enforce, or they need to drop the damned passenger of size rules.
Well looks like my trip with the fam to Florida later this year will be by train. I had given up on all the other airlines except Southwest until this. There is now no domestic carrier that I can fly with that I feel deserves my money. Auto train, here we come!
I’ve been thinking the same thing. The trip is a LOOOOOT longer and at least twice the price but I’m actually questioning if it would be worth it. Crazy shit, those airlines. You either have a great experience or you have a HORRIBLE experience, it seems.
Trains are the way to go, people. If you don’t need to be there NOW, spend an extra day relaxing in comfort and style. Friendly staff and, if you rent a room, free meals. GOOD food, too.
I like the train too, but the speed factor isn’t as minimal as you might think. I recently looked at booking a trip from Sa Diego, CA to Austin, TX. It was going to take something like 2 or 3 days of travel. A flight, while slightly more expensive, is only a few hours.
That’s the annoying thing. Lots of people in the US still don’t take rail seriously so there’s no high-speed rail. Out here high-speed rail is being worked on; for the segments that do have it it’s only a little more than 3x as long as an equivalent flight. The difference is more than acceptable when you factor in the vastly cheaper tickets with practically no baggage limit (where I’d have to check in up to the limit on an aircraft I can fit it all onto the provided space on an overnight high-speed train) or luggage restrictions.
I would argue that people don’t think of rail seriously because it is so slow.
I take the train to NYC and DC from Philly all the time. But it’s just not a realistic option for any of the other cities I visit.
Also, have you seen the prices of the overnight accommodations on Amtrak? Might as well hop off the train and take a deluxe suite at the Ritz Carlton… you’d save money over the tiny compartments, and be a lot more comfortable.
I don’t take train travel seriously because it is subsidized by the govt. and sucks. It is also expensive and slow.
Subsidized? No, the Chinese rail system is subsidized- when you can get first-class sleeper tickets Shanghai to Hong Kong (normally a 2.5-hour flight and over US$1000 in first class) for US$50 each way, no advance purchase requirement. With prices that high the US can’t possibly be pouring as much money into it as they do the interstate. I think that’s definitely not the right way to go. Electrify and speed up the network and it won’t suck anymore. And if you’re going to subsidize it to encourage travel, don’t be so half-hearted about it.
That, and with a train you don’t have to deal with Luggagegate. The drama of luggage, fines, then the 30 to 60 minutes you spend waiting for the plane to unload their shit, it to pop up on the carousel, rotate around… sometimes you get your bags fast, other times that second bag just takes forever to come around.
Ugh, I wish I could get a room on a train. Make a trip from Toronto to Baltimore once a year, and they don’t have anything of the sort.
Of course there is.
The Maple Leaf, the joint Via Rail/Amtrak New York-Toronto train, via Niagara Falls, leaves Toronto daily @8:30am, and arrives in New York 9:35pm. If it’s on time, you can catch the last Amtrak regional train of the day, leaving at 10:22pm, and arriving in Baltimore at 12:40am. Or, book a room at Hotel Pennsylvania in New York, a four-star hotel right across the street from Penn Station where you’ll arrive, have a nice, late dinner, then take the regional train to Baltimore next morning.
If you’re not in a big hurry, this should be a very nice trip, and nobody will ask you to take your shoes off.
When I vacationed in Montreal, I rode Amtrak both ways between New York and Montreal. It’s a long, but a very pleasant trip, and the scenery was beautiful. The coach seats on Amtrak have about the same room and comfort as business class seats on Tin Can Airlines.
“Of course there is”?
There are no rooms on the Maple Leaf. Nowhere in your reply did you touch on rooms on a train, which is what the person you were replying to was talking about.
Perhaps in your eagerness to show off your knowledge you failed to actually read what the poster had written?
The Hotel Pennsylvania is not a four-star hotel.
Trains are great, but our track system sucks!
I used to take the train all the time when I lived in IL.
In OK you have to catch a train to Dallas/Ft.Worth, TX to switch trains to get to St. Louis, MO and the price has gone up a lot!
I had to quit visiting my family in IL because they wanted me to go greyhound to be cheap. After my last nightmare trip on the bus I told them it’ll be a frosty day in hell the next time I ride the greyhound bus.
SHHH!
The more people that travel by rail, the further in advance I have to book my tickets.
I heart Kevin Smith!
Southwest probably would lose more money from the thin people who stop flying them for all the fatties they get stuck next to.
BTW, Morte42. Still a UAB fan? UTEP I could forgive, and Memphis was expected. Marshall on home turf? That’s just sloppy.
Wasn’t me on the court. My area of expertise is on the FieldTurfâ„¢.
I really hope all the bad press they’re getting over this will force them to consider reforming their policy on oversize customers. I have NO problem with them having a policy but it needs to make sense. It needs to be objective and predictable. All Southwest’s planes are the same – if you fit in one, you fit in all of them. They need to have a reliable way for customers and staff to know who is too big and who is not. “Measure your hips at their widest point. If your hips are more than ____ around, you need to buy two tickets.” Objective, predictable, no mystery. Definitely not up to the staff to make a judgment call.
I’m guessing since none of the gate agents had a problem with him that there might have been something more to the story here like maybe he was being a smartass when boarding and the captain was looking for an excuse to ditch him. I wouldn’t be surprised if Smith is prone to smartassery.
I don’t know how feasible this is but, Can’t SW put a demo seat in the terminal to see if some one fits? I’ve seen this at amusement parks and it seems to work.
When A&E was doing the show Airline, some airports had a seat to test to see if people fit. The seat was behind the desk thingy out of sight, this seems like the smartest solution. If not a seat behind every desk maybe a couple in the terminal.
I was saying this to a friend recently. Southwest needs to get a demo seat in every terminal and have every customer sit in it to demonstrate that they fit. No more accusations of random application (and the application of this rule has been random, no doubt about that), everyone has to do it, so it’s not specifically targeting anyone.
Of course, I suspect that then you’ll hear that it’s “public humiliation” for people who are heavy. I don’t know whether having to sit in a demo seat in the terminal is better or worse than being spoken to on the plane itself. Personally, I’d rather find out before boarding that there’s an issue, but I’m not heavy enough to have to worry about this. The seat thing would definitely help with a more uniform application of the two seat rule.
I do think it was a mistake on Kevin Smith’s part to fly on Southwest at all. This policy of theirs is pretty well-known, I thought- there have been several major stories about it in the news even recently, and it’s been in place for at least a year or two, at this point. He’s outraged about the entire policy now, which is entirely his prerogative, but why give them your business in the first place? That leaves me scratching my head a bit. Even so, that pilot’s gotta be getting reamed right about now. Guess he didn’t like Jersey Girl.
Probably because SW has a no-assigned-seating policy, so on a flight that’s partly empty (as this one apparently was) you can try to find a seat next to an empty one and not squash your neighbor.
Yes, I think the fact that the flight wasn’t full is very important here, If you aren’t on a full flight, then why pay for an extra seat (or, for that matter, if you are traveling with a partner who will sit next to you & your girth… and I am girthy)
I don’t think you have to have everyone sit in the seat, but if the demo seat were available, then an overweight passenger would be able to (a) confirm for themselves that they will fit, and (b) prove to an overzealous agent that they can. (Perhaps the demo seat could come with sensors so that it can render an objective judgement.)
Personally, I wish airports had demos of the seats of ALL aircraft, so that I could try them out and decide which was least uncomfortable, and choose an airline based on that. Also, it would be nice if those demos had air masks which deployed (so that nervous people could actually practice putting the masks on– I’ve heard about them dozens of times but I’ve never gotten to try one, thank goodness) etc. And given the pre-flight announcements, it might be good to give certain passengers practice in putting their seatbelt on.
I suggest having everyone do the seat test mostly so that people who really need to be checked to ensure they’ll fit won’t feel like they’re being singled out. If everyone has to do it, it’s not such a big deal. Either way, the issue of who needs to buy two seats, who may not be allowed to fly on the plane and so on needs to be resolved before people have boarded the plane and gotten settled.
Because that test doesn’t disproportionately affect pregnant women, whose bulk is carried in front, at all.
He looks familiar… wasn’t he in Die Hard 4?
Yes, he was.
Of all the movies to recognize Kevin Smith from, you choose Die Hard 4?
could be worse. He could have said Daredevil.
Is it that surprising? It’s the most mainstream movie Smith has ever been in!
Don’t feed the trolls.
Now, we all know the reality that we are getting ‘larger’.
Maybe they should start designing newer planes to accomidate the group of people they are serving?
Just a thought.
Yes, let’s redesign everything because Kevin Smith can’t put down a doughnut.
How about let’s stop redesigning airline seats to only fit smaller and smaller people. How about let’s go back to the way seats were when people could fit in them. How about you get your head out of your ass and stick up for consumers, “Consumer”Wolf.
I don’t know about building entire plans with larger seats, but I bet an airline could modify existing planes and put in a row or two containing larger seats. Those seats would be more expensive (but less than the cost of two seats), and available on a first come/first serve basis to people of “size”. I’m not trying to sound offensive when I say this, but they’d operate a bit like handicap parking spots.
Maybe there are better solutions. But if an airline were to do this or something else that comes off as a constructive solution to this issue, it could be a great PR move for the airline. Alas, I suspect are far too cash-strapped to even consider a constructive solution.
Maybe he was kicked off because he hasn’t made a decent film since “Mallrats”. I consider him more a film user than film maker.
I can’t speak specifically to their policy, but I flew SWA a couple of months ago, the flight down to FL was great with no problems at all. Really a great airline I was impressed.
The flight back was filled to capacity and I got stuck next to a fat fuck who came so far over the arm-rest onto my side, I had to sit all cocked over at an angle, we became one as our touching bodies stuck together with a bond of sweat, halfway into the flight my back started cramping up and became very painful…. Sucked big time, I was furious with he and the airline for allowing such a thing to occur; but I stayed quiet so as to not embarrass the fella; next time, I’m calling the person out on no uncertain terms.
Hey it’s a free country, be as hefty as you want, but stay on your side of the fucking seat. No reason I should have to be sat on because you cannot fit within the confines of your seat. If you cannot fit in one seat, you should seriously have to purchase two perhaps three.
“fat fuck “
class
Listen, I’m a decent sized dude, but I do not ooze beyond the confines of my airline seat and envelope the spaces adjacent to me with my sweaty mass. No, I fit nicely within the seat for which I purchased a ticket, I do not appreciate someones fucking pud resting on my arm as we transect the nation; that’s not part of the contract when I book a seat. You have trouble fitting in one seat, you should have to purchase two, trouble with two, you should have to buy three, and so on… I don’t care if your ass needs the purchase of half the available fuselage tickets, just keep your sweaty, soft, dimpled flesh off my body…..
Stop turning me on!
“…we became one as our touching bodies stuck together with a bond of sweat…”
Pretty good amateur porn writing. Keep at it!
How are we supposed to know whether Southwest overreacted unless we know his actual weight?
Weight has no real basis on the size of a person since muscle mass weighs more than fat so someone could be very heavy but still not that big if they had more muscles than fat.
Airline seat designs are left over from the 70′s when people were smaller (both height and weight) and airplanes were not full all the time. It’s time to start having more rational seat layouts but no airline wants to be first because airlines are competing strictly on price now and having fewer seats will mean lower revenues. It’s time for the FAA to come up with some minimum requirements for seat space and make all the airlines follow them. Fares will go up a bit but they’re pretty low and I’d rather have more space and pay a little bit more (as opposed to paying a LOT more and sitting in business class)
Maybe they are left over from the seventies but maybe it is also a wake up call to a growing problem of people not taking care of their health in general.
I know I’ve gotten larger (but not as large as Kevin) as I’ve gotten older, so I suffer on the buses & subways here in nyc. On the subways, it’s not a big enough problem with the flat bench style seats, but rather the ones that have the, what would you call them, the seat cutouts?, that indicate a ‘seat’. The problem occurs when there’s only really room for a rail-thin supermodel (like she’d be on the subway!) to fit there, but another person who’s, let’s say, the same size as me, decides to sit there. The next thing I know is that I’ve that person trying to read a paper and turning pages and as a result sticking their elbows into my side. Not fun. Unlike an airplane, where you can pretty confident that the tsa folks have caught the weapons someone might have attempted to bring on board, there’s no such certainty on the subway, so I generally refrain from commenting unless it’s really, really annoying.
Of course, with the coming budget cuts, the trains & buses are going to get even more crowded (like they say, there’s always room for 1,000 more).
Anyone get the feeling Southwest Airlines will be making an unwanted appearance in the next Kevin Smith film?
Lucky for Southwest, no one will see it.
If the flight wasn’t full and everyone could be accommodated or moved, fine. Calling it a security risk? Stupid. However.. As someone who has ended up multiple times with part of someone else draped over them because they are taking up their seat and part of mine, I don’t hate these airline policies.
“SouthWest Airlines: We love your bags, but leave your spare tire and saddlebags at the gym”
The big deal isn’t that they kicked fat people, the deal is that he was booted off that flight after he was seated and armrest is already down. It was inconsistent in their policy.
I thought the policy was that it was ultimately up to the captain…
But the captain shouldn’t be able to randomly kick people off for a fat violation when he’s not violating their fat policy.
in all fairness, didn’t they just change their policy so that if you purchased two seats and there turns out to be empty seats on the flight once you get on, they will actually refund you the second ticket? Sounds like a very reasonable agreement… I’ve sat next to larger people on flights and I don’t understand why I should be inconvenienced because of your size. Riddle me THAT!
The most outrageous part of this story is Mr. Smith’s attitude that, just because he’s a celebrity, the rules don’t apply to him. Maybe he should spend less time twittering and more time on a treadmill.
Or more spend a little more time at a screenwriting course. All he seems to know how do to is tell dick jokes and make comic book references.
THIS
Have you every actually watched a Kevin Smith movie? Yes there is dick jokes and occasionally comic book references but there is more as well and if you actually ever watched one instead of YouTube clips of them you would actually know that.
Set the rule before people buy their tickets and make people actually stand on a scale before they check in. You go over the weight limit you are REQUIRED to buy a 2nd ticket. How is it any different than checking in a oversized / overweight bag? more weight = more jet fuel = high ticket prices.
I’m not really sure what article you were reading but he declined SWA apology because they responded to him BECAUSE he is famous. He is making the point that other not-so-famous large folk don’t get the same decency that he did and that is wrong.
Ah, I was wondering where all the typical ‘fattie-fat-fat people DESERVE IT because they’re FAT!’ comments were! I was beginning to think he was getting a pass for being famous.
rtfa
I’m 6’5″ and 290 lbs. I played O-line in college for a Division 1 school. I’ll be damned if some desk jockey wants to tell me I’m “too fat” to fly. Oh! I’m sorry! My knees are up to my ears because you jammed 10 extra rows of seating into your planes! And I’m sorry that my hip bones have to be forced into a seat…not my fat, my actual BONES!
How about we run 10 miles? The last person there gets booted for being too out of shape! It won’t be me, I guarantee it. BIG is not FAT, and SKINNY is not HEALTHY!
Tell you what Hoss; if you’re sitting next to me, and you’re crowding me out of my seat, I want the airline to say that you’re too big (not fat) to fly in one seat (not that you can’t fly at all). If you don’t impinge on my space, I don’t care what your dimensions are.
If you were to say something like that to me, they would have to remove me with the police, and you with a body bag.
You want to be comfortable, go sit in first class. Otherwise you are cargo like the rest of us and have no rights.
Shouldn’t you be in first class then? In the cargo hold each package must be of standardized weight and volume.
Well, for me the main problem is my height. Shall I slice off my legs at my shins to make it more convenient? Sorry to break it to you, but I am the future. People continually get bigger and taller, yet the airlines haven’t redesigned the seats since when?
Anyway, I’ll be inconvenienced a bit. It’s better than being a pathetic half-man like so many little Napoleons I see.
Obviously you should pay for your seat and the one in front of you, us tall folk should know better then to jam our knees into someones back. Maybe that front seat should come with complementary lead hats to shrink you down for your next flight?
Well, since its NebraskaDan, and you said you played D-1, all I can say is…GO BIG RED!
Amen to that.
Lose weight.
Let’s not forget he also has a new movie coming out in a week or two.
Hummm … airlines and their rules… maybe they should place a “you must be this size” to board a plane seat next to the carry-on suitcase criteria? Or… geeze… maybe the seats are just too SMALL???
Just like malls and parking garages they are making the spaces we have to fit into smaller and smaller in order to get more paying people in the same space. It seems like they’re trying to push customers away instead of making their flying, shopping, parking experience a pleasant one.
SOUTHWEST SURVIVOR!
Let the air crew outsmart and outwit you until you get kicked off…..
Winner: Nobody
Well, at least his bags were going to fly for free.
I can think of about 5 reasons why I hope that I don’t ever have to sit next to him.
And I can think of about 20 why I wouldn’t want to sit next to you.
Sorry, fat people, sorry, famous people, no special rules for you. If the flight wasn’t full, then kicking him off may have been a bit too strong of a reaction, but Mr. Smith couldn’t have known that in advance. He should have purchased two tickets.
Fat people: If you can’t stop being fat, at least stop being a nuisance for the person next to you.
how about you stop being a Troll first.
He’s flown southwest before, they have had no issues with him. And not for nothing he’s heavy, but he’s not THAT fat. I have seen much fatter on flights.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Kevsmith.jpg
I just want what I pay for. It is rude to think that your belly can extend into my seat. That is not normal.
I’m not trolling, I just have a different opinion than you.
FL FTSS FL!!! Jst nt n Sthwst pprntl.
It’s never a problem for the overweight person, but it causes a problem for the person seated next to them. I’ve seen plenty of overweight people on airplanes who could care less that they are occupying the space that another passenger has paid for. It’s stealing and the overweight person should have to pay for the extra seat. Other passengers aren’t allowed to occupy a seat they haven’t paid for and if they do they are told to move.
What are you talking about? Do you know any overweight people?
I know two that are very overweight and they are paranoid and do everything they can to prevent people from being uncomfortable. They are often humiliated and feel embarrassed when going to trains/airplanes.
They both actually have medical conditions and it’s hard to keep weight down but i know for a fact they both try.
Usually they are flying with their SO, so it’s easier for them to deal with.
I can’t speak for every overweight person in question, though I don’t doubt that it’s embarrassing when you don’t fit into your seat or you know you’re infringing on the space of the person next to you (unless you’re just an asshole). That said, the fact that someone feels bad doesn’t really do anything to help me if I’m crammed next to a window and unable to use an armrest or go to the bathroom without massive disruption during a thirteen-hour flight to Japan, which has actually happened to me. I have a lot of sympathy for people who are overweight and in this position- it’s not easy to lose weight, and there are medical conditions that can make it harder. I get that. But at what point does my sympathy for their problem mean that I’m no longer entitled to use the seat for which I paid unencumbered? I don’t advocate deliberately humiliating anyone (personally, I think every passenger should have to sit in a demo seat before boarding the plane, the same way you put your carry on in the little bin to prove it’s within size limits), but I do think it’s fair that people who take up more than one seat pay for a second seat.
All of that said, the policy needs to be enforced consistently, which is where I think having a demo seat and a set of concrete measurements will help things. Right now, it seems to be based entirely on the judgment of the pilot and/or flight attendants, which is part of what’s causing the issue. One guy might give a large passenger a break, where another will kick them off. Come up with a firm set of rules based on objective criteria and stick to them.
It’s time to treat all passengers equally. I suggest passengers be given a weight limit which includes person plus baggage. An adult male would be allowed 225 lbs, adult female 175 lbs and child 100 pounds. Anything more than the stated weight would incur a fee of $1 per pound. Or perhaps they could install clear plexi glass partitions next to each seat which could be raised to ensure one does not overlap into anothers paid space,
You don’t understand how mass works, do you?
Aside from being offensive and unenforceable (who are you to tell a 6′ woman she needs to be under 175 lbs?), that doesn’t get at part of the problem.
My last Southwest flight, I was in the middle seat, between two men. Both were between 6′ and 6’3″. Both were clearly extremely fit and worked out. I’m 5’8″ and pretty much all legs and shoulders myself. And it was the most uncomfortable I’ve ever been on a plane. All of our shoulders kept overlapping, there was no room for anyone’s arms, nobody could cross or even move their legs… it was incredibly painful, the way we all three kept contorting, and it was barely even possible to read a boor or a magazine because there was no way to hold it, because of how we couldn’t move our arms or shoulders.
And these are the “ideal” passengers, who in everyone’s fat-phobic universe the plane should be 100% full of.
Let’s face it: airplane layouts could stand to be a little more accommodating.
I suffer from fierce restless leg when I feel confined. Totally my problem which is why I take Zanax while flying now. It has improved my flight experience 100%. I am sure it also improves the experience of the person next to me as well since I don’t have ants in my pants, just a smile & some drool.
density, not just weight, is key here.
i’m 5′ 3″ and wear a size 12 which is pretty average for a female in the US. but due to having spent many years being very active and athletic, i weigh 190 pounds. i fit very comfortably into an airline seat, with inches to spare on either side.
i could stand to lose a few pounds, but at 125 pounds i’m skeletal. with a 50 pound suitcase and a weight of 125 pounds i’d probably be too sick to fly. last time i weighed that little i was hospitalized because i was in diabetic ketoacidosis and had lost too much weight to be able to walk around
I totally agree and have suggested the same concept. “density”? uhh that doesn’t come into play. the fuel required to get us to our destination doesn’t know nor care how “dense” you are.
Once, I had this huuuge guy sit next to me on a flight. I knew he was probably nervous because people are such assholes about overweight people on airplanes. I made sure to smile and say hello as he squeezed in the seat. Actually, it was kind of comfortable. Like having a huge pillow next to you and you didn’t have to worry about accidentally touching the person next to you because you had no choice.
also, my best friend is 6’4, 420 pounds. He’s never been kicked off a flight, but he will choose seating assignments online towards the last minute to make sure theres an empty seat next to him, and usually picks the “extra room” seats. He’s so friendly and happy that it would be hard for people to be mad at him anyway.
It’s fantastic that you felt comfortable next to a big guy on a plane, but how exactly does that help me when I’m in that situation and I’m not comfortable?
And how is not having a choice about touching the other person any good? If I sit next to an incontinent person, is that good because I don’t have to go to the lavatory anymore, because there’s going to be urine all over the seats anyway?
Rock on, Lunchbox!
Used to be very heavy myself. You overeat because of emotional problems that are not dealt with. Kevin Smith’s horrible language is unprofessional also. I suggest he seek therapy for anger management and to discover why he is overweight. Southwest shining a light on this problem may save his life.
Wow, way to believe all the stereotypes. So if I starve myself into an eating disorder thats so much healthier? But yet starving myself will not reduce the bone volume of my hips and shoulders and rib cage… Oh and skinny people can have emotional issues too. So what if he curses though, this isn’t 1942 and only the poor ugly, lower class curse. Cursing is just another form of expression and people who act like it is beneath people should be monitored every moment of the day and scolded for hours if they ever curse even partially.
In 1942, there were plenty of sailors, though, and you know the expression….
Thanks for the touchy-feely bullshit. Not every fat person “overeats” or “needs therapy.” Perhaps you are the one who needs therapy, so you can learn to get over yourself.
Judging from Kevin Smith’s movies, his language is *very* professional, in that it is appropriate for what he does – movies with lots of raunchy humor.
Foul language on the Internet about people who do stupid things is much better than therapy. You don’t have to pay someone a ton of money to talk to them – you have many strangers who will validate you for free.
Lighten up, Francis.
I hope Kevin Smith makes a film with “Dante” as the guy that gets kicked off the plane with his sidekick – that blonde guy from Clerks – in CLERKS 3. HAHAHA
Or he *could* have said “Hey, wasn’t that guy a voice in the animated family movie “Doogal”?
I would be interested to know how he would actually counter the argument that “all passengers have a right to their space,” outside of repeated Fuck You’s. If you’re seated next to a large passenger, you may indeed suffer a deprivation of what you are entitled to due to the negative externalities of another. What exactly would he propose as fair?
Don’t know about him, but I’d say that the only reason they get away with undersized seats is because they single out badly overweight people. If they actually would say that one has to fit into the seat rectangle tall, broad hipped and broad shouldered people would have to buy two seats (not that it helps the tall, we don’t fit in a way that a seat next to us helps only marginally) and the “lose some weight fatty” reactions would cease being effective in offsetting the bad press.
OK, so does this mean that skinny people should be demanding a discount on our tickets? Really, if they’re going to charge +size people to make up for the extra space and weight, I should get a discount, or be allowed to bring an extra bag without charge, right?