But I thought the economy grew?

I think we're getting the crappy end of the stick or shaft. Either way I'm not liking all this negative news, & its repercussions. I ♥ fear !

Unless you're in southeast Michigan; then it's about twice that.

That open thread cannot come soon enough. All this bad news is depressing.

@ShruggingGalt: Productivity went up. Workers who had jobs were working more hours, essentially.

The only thing that suprises me is the unemployment number is not twice that...although in reality it probably is.

I can only imagine we will hear the next consecutive economic bottom call in the news soon.

My brother just called me and said what the world needs now is "Welcome to the Jungle". He played it, it was right.

@Jeangenie: oops, he is right.

@Mary Marsala with Fries: I dunno, its really weird. My boyfriend (from Florida) just got a job up there and moved. I know, right?
So, SOME people in Michigan are hiring.

Plus, I was scouting out opportunities of employment for me, and though I most likely will never work in my industry (web design) again up there, I can get a job as a CSR. They called me even though my resume said I'm in FLORIDA the day after I submitted it. Obviously they're looking to hire.

Might be bad for workers, but what great profits all of these companies are showing, causing their stock price to take off!

It's like winning at Weight Watchers by removing your appendages.

@exploded: Or producing more value by putting in the same amount of work.

I've worked with a few people in the past who could really cause productivity to go up if they did not show up for work.

Not that this is a jab at the laid off ones, I am just pointing out that putting in more hours is not a precondition.

However practically, when a layoff happens, there is a spike in work load temporarily, which might go down soon if the managers are competent and circumstances are permissive to distribute load evenly and reduce work load based on reduced work force.

But if you are an assembly line for instance, and you want to keep the production to the same level, yeah, people are going to have to put in more work. If you were laying people off because a project got cancelled, other workers will not have too much extra responsibility.

@Oranges w/ Cheese wants it to be winter already: Computer related jobs are almost always available.

Now can we panic? The companies maybe crowing that the recession is over, but they have yet to show they are making the effort to recover some of the workforce they laid off. This last set of quarterly profit reports has the blood of several million unemployed slathered all over it.

Here's my statistics.

My family of three is myself, mom, and dad.
I'm a 22 year old working part time retail job, one that will likely drop me and half its staff in January.

Mom got laid off last week. Dad lost his 20 year position in 2008, and were it not for his entepreneurial skills wed be, well, in some bother.
That makes for a 'classic' employed to unemployed percentage of about 33% for my household.

@nnj: well, I don't think the unemployment rate includes contract workers or recent college graduates - so it's entirely likely that the rate being reported is not reflective of the actual unemployment rate.

Either way, it's sad as hell.

@MostlyHarmless: It's a pretty commonly held belief that you could walk into any IT shop in the country, fire (the right) half of the workers and actually increase output.

@j-o-h-n: Way to bring politics into something completely unrelated.

[j/k]

@tailstoo: It's sort of a prisoner's dilemma -- it is good for a company to shed their dead wood and become more productive -- but if a bunch of companies do that, then significantly rising unemployment means they all have less customers with less money.

Any projections from unbiased economists what the unemployment rate would be without the stimulus?

@j-o-h-n: I can name every member of our team who falls into that category. It’s a mixed blessing that our company is nigh impossible to be let go from.

Yeah 9% Obama has made it worse.

I'm one of those unemployed people, and it has gotten me pretty depressed at times, especially given my education and training. One way I have found to deal with it and improve my chances at getting a job was reading newspaper and magazine job application advice and then trying different tactics they suggest. Some don't work, some do, and it's pretty easy to spot ones that will definitely improve your chances. One really helpful site I found is a blog by an underemployed ecologist/biologist. She's on Blogspot and goes by the handle of JoblessGenevieve. The posts are typically helpful or at least thought inducing, and I know she's always looking for contributions from people who've been there and done that in terms of being unemployed or working towards their dream job. Check her out: joblessgenevieve.blogspot. c o m

@woolygator: Go away troll.

@ShruggingGalt: The economy grew but our economy is separated from employment. We ship out raw materials and intellectual property. Both take years to ramp up employees for new jobs.

Hoax and chains.

@Mary Marsala with Fries: Or in this place in Central California. It sucks to live here, sometimes.

My husband and I are members of the "unemployed who aren't counted". We moved states in order to care for my mother and to do that we had to quit our jobs. We are looking for work in our new state (we both have bachelor's degrees -- fat lot they are doing us) but haven't been successful so far. We aren't eligible for unemployment benefits so no one is counting us in that 10.2%.

It really does shock me that the "counted" numbers are 1 out of every 10 people is unemployed. It's a staggering number and I can't imagine how that situation is going to be corrected in the next five years. And with retirement benefits dropping and healthcare costs rising, more people who would have retired are going to be staying in their jobs which will leave even fewer job openings.

The official unemployment rate masks a lot of problems itself. Out of 100 people 10 are "unemployed" and another 7 are "discouraged or marginally attached workers". Those are the people that would prefer to be working or want to work more, but can't for economic reasons.

17.5% of the population wants to work more, but can't; that's more than 1 out of ever 6 people in this country.

[www.bls.gov]

@j-o-h-n: It's a pretty commonly held belief that you could walk into any Fortune 500 shop in the country, fire (the right) 80% of management and actually increase output.

- an IT guy who sees the useless crap they send in email.

@proskills: As a well qualified computer professional trying to hawk his wares during nearly six months of total unemployment last year, for me, not so much.

@Death to Frying Things: Hahahahahahahahaha, brilliant.

At the same time, employers are using the recession to freeze the salaries of the people they do employ. Can't really expect me to go out and "consume" when I'm not getting paid more, but required expenses like utilities, food, gas, continue to go up in price.

@tailstoo: or we need new industries. sticking the unemployed or underemployed where they are inefficient is communism.

@j-o-h-n: it's only a prisoner's dilemma if the players could reach a better result by collaborating reliably. if each company is a prisoner, and their options are "fire" and "don't fire," i don't really see a better outcome by everyone coordinating their policies for the greater good--that would also be communism.

@woolygator: i don't know about that. how does spending money reliably get people fired more than not spending money?

@ShruggingGalt:

Employers are squeezing more blood from the same stone.

@proskills: Not entry level positions if you don't have experience, not in South-East Michigan anyway. Nearly all open job positions that would be considered entry-level are all requiring 5+ years experience performing the same task... Guess people don't want 2,000 applicants a day. The required skills rarely change for open positions, only the required experience continues to increase.

@Death to Frying Things: you hit the nail on the head. you would also increase moral by 80 percent.
You earned a star*

Thank you Bush and Cheney!

@tailstoo: I think this is an excellent argument that we need whole new stock market measurements and structures so that Wall St. CANNOT be doing well at the expense of Main Street.

If consumer confidence is in the toilet, foreclosures and job losses are high, then stock value is in the toilet where it should be.

@sincbt3: Jobdig.com is cool too.

@Elcheecho: Maybe you're making a valid point...but after the rash of "ooonooes!!! It'z da COMUNISM/SOCIALISM" screeds from certain segments of our society, I'm inured to any arguments that use it. Meh.

@Jevia: It's worse than that. Many large companies are lower the starting pay of their most common job positions drastically.
I know General Motors is a bad example, but 4 years ago the starting salary of an assembly line worker was $18 to $24 an hour, now it's $14, and 99% of those position are only available to family and friends of employees who give potential hires a n employee recommendation application, a.k.a a "golden ticket"

The 120 million dollar a year in revenue company I work for(which has grown by 20% in the last two years) has frozen the salary of everyone for an undetermined amount of time. They still do yearly reviews, but nobody gets a salary increase, and no new hires are getting benefits.

Legal profession dropped 5,800 jobs in October. Say you just spent $100,000 or more on law school and passed the bar. Now all you have to do is find a job while there are thousands of experienced lawyers in the same pool. It's not pleasant.

As far as the stimulus package goes, without it we might be looking at an unemployment rate in the high teens so comparing Obama to Hoover, I'll take Obama any day of the week.

Time to become self-employed.

not giving you a fish but teaching you
how to fish

@Death to Frying Things: As someone in IT management, I guess that means I have only a 10% chance of actually being useful! :)

Funny that you should mention that... I lost my job today.

@exploded: My uncle works 6-7 days a week now because his job cut about half its people. And they were in a very specific field of engineering that generally has a large market.

@zombies.like.lattés.too:

The L in BLS is superfluous.

@Areyouagoodlittleconsumer:

Don't forget Clinton, a little bit. And Nixon, too. Not sure about Bush Sr. or Carter. But this is really on Reagan.