Never Follow A Security Guard Into The Back Of The Store
Here's some advice for you, the regular customer who doesn't shoplift: never go into the back of a store with a security guard, store manager, rent-a-cop, etc. Never. Someone posted the following story in the Janesville, Wisconsin CraigsList over the weekend. Because the poster cooperated in good faith with the security personnel at her local Menards home store, she had to pay $150 to avoid having the police called on her.
(I've edited the post for clarity and punctuation.)
So I will start off saying my husband and I have been shopping at Menards since they opened and because of our business we are there almost daily and sometime twice a day. This afternoon [November 7th, 2009] we came for the second time to get lumber and paint. I just bought my husband a surprise drywall gun last night from Menards so in exchange he thought it would be nice to look at a new drill for me.
I have had my eye on a light weight compact cordless so we started comparing them. He noticed a complete set of 2 drills, bat, chargers and so on but they were not on display, just in the box. Well I opened the box so I could see how light they are and they were perfect for me. I picked everything up that I removed from the box and stuffed it back in the box and set it in the cart. I tried to close the top of the box however because i removed everything it would not go back in place, So I left the box open.
We had several items in our cart and within a minute I found some drill bits to go with my new set so I tossed the small package in the cart. I turned my back to talk to my husband about more bits and some guy comes cruising around the corner grabs my cart and takes off walking very fast. "HEY you have my cart!" I yelled to the guy as he was already down the aisle. He let go of the cart said sorry and disappeared around the corner leaving my cart. I walked down, grabbed the cart, and came back to my husband. Very strange we both thought but we just continued shopping.
Over to building materials we went before checking out. We checked our items out (over $300.00) and the cashier never questioned the open box or looked inside.
We leave the store and a man walks up and asks for our receipt. My husband went to pull it out of his wallet and before he gets it out the guy reaches into the drill box and pulls out the small pack of drill bits. He looks at us and said you took these. We replied oh they must have been missed we will come back in and pay for them.
The guy who we now know as security asked us to come back inside. We went inside expecting to pay for the $5.99 drill bits and he tells us we have to fill out an incident paper.
They take our cart full of $300.00 worth of stuff and lead us into the security room. Inside the room we are sitting in silence while this guy is filling out paperwork and a lady that works as a CSM(?) is standing guard at the door like we are hard criminals ready to flee the country.
After several minutes of silence I ask if I am being charged for something. The security man said no I just need you to fill out this paperwork and give me your drivers license.
So I hand over my license and he said to me that he'd seen the drill bits on top of the open box then he'd seen us walk into the checkouts and not pay for them. I could not believe what I was hearing. I told him over and over this is a mistake I threw the bits in the cart and they must have landed on the box. The guard then said maybe they slipped further in the box when you moved your cart. He said well that sounds like you're just having bad luck. My husband asked if they'd seen me put the package in the box. He would not respond.
He then told me I have 2 choices. I can pay Menards $150.00 or they will call the police and charge me with theft and a $350.00 fine. We could not believe what was happening. CHARGE ME WITH THEFT! JUST BAD LUCK??? What is happening! Have they gone crazy!
I have thrown items in my cart many times and never thought twice about it. I understand if the bits were in my pocket or hidden under everything in the box but they were on top of a opened box that the cashier never even looked in the box. Honest mistake is what I call it not bad luck or theft.
So now I am in tears and faced with a choice I never thought I would make in my life. We run a professional business and I would never want to risk my reputation by being hauled out of Menards in front of everyone by the police. I was told to sign the paperwork and pay the $150.00 to avoid this from happening. So I signed and paid what they called a restitution. They refused to give me a copy of the paperwork I signed. Then they sent us on our way with tears in my eyes. I went quietly but I can't let this go.
"Just having bad luck???? (Beloit Menards)" [janesville.craigslist.org] (Thanks to M!)
(Photo: TheTruthAbout...)
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WHAT and WHY did you sign? I would really be interested in knowing what exactly was in the document they had them sign and why they wouldn't give them a copy of it. Did it contain an admission of guilt? Did they ban them from store? My wife is from Wisconsin, not far from Janesville. Now I know to stay away from Menards next time I'm up there.
Agreed, the proper response here is to call (or at least threaten to call) 911 and report false imprisonment.
Isn't it illegal to make somebody pay you money so that they will not call the cops? Even just making you pay for bits almost sounds like it would be illegal, but then the added 140-or-so dollars seems like something illegal.
@AirIntake: They answered that: "We run a professional business and I would never want to risk my reputation by being hauled out of Menards in front of everyone by the police."
Second mistake: Signing the paperwork and not having the cops come. If they'd had a reasonable police officer come, they'd likely have walked away with little to no issues. At the worst they would have been ticketed and could have contested it in court. I would bet money that the papers she signed waived every right she had available to contest this.
Whoops, meant to respond to an earlier post, weird. Anyway, point still valid.
The solution is ridiculously simple...
You look him square in the eye and say "Don't bother Sir", and you pull out your cellular phone and call the police immediately. You tell them exactly what happened and that the security personal at this store has just tried to extort you out of $150 (Extortion is a felony).
You watch his eyes go as wide as saucers, and all of the colour drain out of his face, perhaps he'll be even more stupid and make a grab for your phone, at which point he'll be taking on a second misdemeanor for trying to prevent you from contacting the police in an emergency.
This is a pretty dicey game these morons are playing, I'll wager the person who dropped those bits into the box is the same person who stole your cart... and my wager is that they're either working with the store in loss prevention, or they're working with this asshat in his scheme.
If anyone accuses you of anything and tries to strong-arm you into doing something, tell them to die in a fire and call the cops yourself. Don't pay some stupid ransom and certainly don't hand over your personal information to them.
Some security guy gets in your face and accuses you of something? Whip out your cell phone and say you'd like to record this incident on video to prevent any miscommunications.
Rent-a-cop sticks you in a room? Start calling corporate offices and news stations. Get names, badge numbers, employee ID numbers, everything you can think of.
I would have gone with the cops and told the cops what they offered me. I use my cell phone to record coversations just like this. All cell phones now days have a voice recorder....except maybe the god-phone.....
Biggest mistake was paying anything.
Let the cops come. The accused was more than willing to pay for an 'oversight'.
The store should've let them pay and left it at that.
But I would've called the cops on the obvious extortion the store was pulling.
The poster should sue them. Whatever they had her sign (and refused to provide copies of) can be thrown out because they had her sign under duress.
Of course one would have to retain council to make sure that the bogus charges can't come back to haunt, but I bet they would fold very quickly and settle for attorneys fees and even some damages.
@ergasiophobiac: In fact, I would have said something along the lines of, "If you have reason to call the police, call them. Otherwise I will." I'm certain the tune would have changed after that. A threat to call the police is usually a bluff in a situation like this. If the store actually had the evidence to back up their claim, they would have just called the police.
Call the cops yourself. Make the "security" guy and whoever else on Menard's side wait for the cop to arrive. I'm sure they'd be coming up with any excuse they could to leave before the cops got there.
I understand why you complied. It wasn't the "protecting my civil rights" right thing to do but you were afraid and did not want to cause a stir. My advice to you is to now call an attorney. A huge one that can guarantee you some sort of victory. Do not use a single item you purchased and preserve your receipt. Do this quickly. Hopefully the lawyer will suggest you file a police report. I would also be concerned about getting the video footage from inside and outside the store before they chuck it. Protect yourself. You never know when this thing could come back and bite you or your family later. Good Luck!
OMFG...why did you do that? Why didn't you just tell them "Go ahead & call the police! I did NOT steal anything!" Then explain to the police when they get there. Besides, at only $5.99 - especially when you bought all of the other stuff - I sincerely doubt they'd have done anything.
You (1) signed something that they wouldn't even give you a copy of and (2) gave them $150? I'm sorry, but that wouldn't fly for 1 second with me!
She should have told the rent-a-cop to go fuck himself and call a real cop when he was done.
Unless the police that would have arrived were as ridiculously stupid as the store, it would have gone like so:
1. Police arrives and gets the explanation from asshole mall-cop and whatever likewise store manager is on hand.
2. The couple explains that they paid for $300 in goods; why would they bother stealing $5.99 in drill bits?
3. (Increasingly un)common sense prevails...(?)
I'd find out from Menards corporate whether this is their policy or the "policy" of the security guard.
As others said, I would have called the cops myself right away - and refused to hand over any money.
Did you pay cash or credit?
Well, I know where I won't be doing my home improvement shopping. Too bad, as I just bought a house and need a number of things and I was thinking I'd go to the local Menards. Not any more.
@organicgardener: Slap me for not reading it correctly the first time. That whole cart-grabbing thing is WAY suspect. It was a scam! Loss prevention split the $150, and that's why you didn't get a copy of anything. You should still call the police - on THEM. They can see what happened on the security video.
You my friend shouldn't have signed. Call their bluff by calling the police. It's of course not to late to file an AG and BBB complaint.
The food store I worked at used to do the same thing. The average shoplifter steals ~$150 in merch, and if they get caught, it's probably not the first time it happened. Also, it cost the store WAY more than $150 to have our loss prevention people take the time off to goto court. So rather than involve the police and have them hit with a large fine, they would sign an agreement, and if they didn't pay, we would then press charges officially.
There was an eerily similar post on my local CL a couple months ago.
Buyer has something small under larger items in the cart, forgets about it, leaves then security magically appears. Buyer offers to pay for mistaken item, but security whisks them away and offers an extortion payment in lieu of theft charge.
Similar story here:
[www.my3cents.com]
This just seems too weird.
But I just got my "birthday coupon" for a free 13-in-1 pocket tool, so I have to go at least one more time...
I guess I won't be saving big money at Menards.
Presumably the $150 was not paid in cash. Therefore, there will be a record of either a debit or check transaction.
Shouldn't be difficult to track that down, then track down surveillance video from their time in the store. Then call the police and file a report for attempted extortion.
Or... just wait 24 hours for someone from Menards corporate to get a whiff of this story and fall all over him or herself to contact the OP and arrange appropriate compensation (as well as a come-to-jesus meeting with the store manager) before this blows up into an even larger PR disaster than it already is :)
They should change their name to "Mean Bastards". It would be interesting to see just what the paperwork said. Oh let the bad publicity for them begin.
I'm just playing armchair lawyer here, but can't contracts be invalidated if they are signed under duress? As long as she can argue that that was the case, it's not as if she's already signed away her rights.
@katstermonster: You'd be amazed. I once had a lady by $120 in groceries, and while checking her out, I noticed on the flyer in her cart some of those clear/gold stickers they put on glasses that they sell in stores. So I took a good look at the lady, and the pair she was wearing still had a sticker on the lens. She took a pair off the display, and was trying to wear them out of the store. They were $9.99, but she was still trying to walk off in them. I NEVER accept that excuse when it comes to shoplifters, because I have seen in on more than one occasion, including the one above, in my years in retail.
Sounds like a scam perpetrated by the folks in the store. Call an attorney- even if it was a scam the store is responsible for the conduct of its employees. File a police report IMMEDIATELY.
Anything you signed should be voidable since it was signed under duress. I would take them to small claims court to get your money back.
This was a shakedown by Menards.
@GitEmSteveDave_OverSleptThisMorn: Yeah, people of all income levels steal for all sorts of weird little reasons--thrill of it, weird compulsion, acting out anger issues, whatever. I don't get the "I bought x hundred dollars so there's no way I could also be a shoplifter!" excuse.
But if you're not a shoplifter, stay the hell out of those back rooms.
Its called extortion and I would go after them. I would also cancel the payment if it was not cash.
Extortion, outwresting, or exaction is a criminal offense which occurs when a person unlawfully obtains either money, property or services from a person, entity, or institution, through coercion.
Also I am not a lawyer so don't construe that as legal advice.
@calchip:
Agreed I would get my ducks in a row and then go to my bank and ask them for a chargeback. I would have my attorney contact the store and the police and tell them whats going on and why I am requesting the chargeback, and then I would take this business to court (provided my attorney has enough evidence.) and humiliate and sue the pants off of them. Lets see who will be laughing now.
@GitEmSteveDave_OverSleptThisMorn:2 weeks ago I walked out of walmart with a $12 pair of reading glasses hanging from my shirt. I had left mine in the car and had "borrowed them to read a medicine label. I discovered them when I put my sealtbelt on and promptly returned them to the greeter at the door. I don't know who was more surprised.
Assuming all is true in her story: I would've said: (1) call the police, (2) call the manager so the manager can see the absurdity of a regular customer stealing $6 in a $300 order and (3) explained to the manager how much business I bring to the store and, assuming I had the receipts to back it up, explained to the manager how the regional manager and everyone up the chain and explain how in this economy they are going to let thousands of dollars of business go to their competitor over a $6 error unless I got an official apology right then and there with the caveat that if I even hear there is paperwork accusing me of theft that our next conversation will be in civil court when I sue all involved for libel.
I also would have signed nothing nor handed over my license. I don't even show my license when a clerk asks me for it when using a credit card (which they are not really allowed to do in my state).
@Ohpine: no, they were her bits. She says so. The guy grabbing her cart probabaly was just a guy who grabbed the wrong cart, ive done this before and have had it done to me before.
Menards has a very aggressive attitude toward shoplifting, by reputation.
$6 drill bits IS a small item, but shoplifters could buy a cartload of stuff to hide the shoplifted item, get away with it, and then return the other camouflage items on the receipt. Success! but for $6??
The fault here is that there is (probably) a corporate policy of zero tolerance. No allowance for common sense. On top of that, there is probably pressure on the Loss Prevention Dept. to 'catch' their quota. It's a shame, because they will lose a lot of business from this.
Checkers at my Menards go through the items, looking for stuff - They will pick up 80# bags of softener salt to make sure nothing is between them. One told me they find expensive saw blades like this all the time, which the customer 'forgot'about.
Altogether, I'd say don't sign, though.
"he said to me that he'd seen the drill bits on top of the open box then he'd seen us walk into the checkouts and not pay for them"--so they were sufficiently visible for him to see them, therefore fairly visible, but the cashier missed them? And that's the OP's fault?
Even allowing for the kind of fluster-muddled recollections people get in situations like this, it sounds like they want to claim they watched the OP's cart demonstrate something visible at the time it went through checkout.
@Ohpine: Sounds like a pretty lucrative racket. $150 for every person you scare the crap out of.
They need to get in contact with Menard's corporate or even better go file a police report for extortion. Had a cop actually shown up and heard the entire story and the instance that the items were in the cart they are probably going to try to talk the store manager out of pressing charges.
@GitEmSteveDave_OverSleptThisMorn: I can get that people do try to steal small on top of paying big, but I think a store that doesn't allow for the possibility of accident with a regular customer is going to lose itself more money than it saves.
@howie_in_az: Nobody is sticking me in a room in a store for any reason. If your not leaving the store you should be ok until the cops arrive. Trying to force someone physically into a back room sounds probably illegal. If in such a situation I would want the cops called and the store security would have to hog tie me if they want to drag me off somewhere. I want witnesses to whatever they think they are going to pull.
WHY H WHY DD Y PY???????