How did you go from "small percentage" of 20,000,000 to a million people getting banned?

Nothing...is perfect.

I wonder if dude can send his box to StepTo and Team and prove his 'innocence'?

I wonder how Meg feels about this. *looks at wording of poll* Ah.

Seriously though, what modder/hacker/pirate isn't going to say they did nothing wrong? I mean this as an honest question.

@Megalomania: Well, 5% isn't a particularly big percentage.

They get false positives for serial numbers on their Windows DRM ("WGA") all the time. This should not be considered any different.

Zero tolerance will always punish the innocent among the guilty.

These innocent people could be sometimes just that, innocent, or ignorant. They don't know they are playing a modded box. They got it pre-owned from game stop, or a great deal on ebay.

I am willing to bet not one of the "innocently banned" purchased their xbox retail, and never opened the case.

I'm certainly not convinced that Microsoft was 100% accurate in their decisions. But I would believe that if they were 100% accurate, we would still hear from people who insist that they were playing on unmodded consoles. I'm satisfied with thinking that if anyone truly believes that they were booted for absolutely no valid reason, then they could easily prove it to a 3rd party observer. I haven't heard of any such thing happening from the whiners though.

I don't know how a company who has crippled large amounts of their own corporate customers at times via Windows XP anti-piracy can say that their banning practice on any piece of hardware or console is perfect.

It clearly shows that they're going to take the late 90's AOL approach: We'd rather have 20 million customers and it's fine if they're unhappy rather than have 10 million happy customers.

If they're going to ban a piece of $300 equipment from their network they need to give people the exact reason it was banned as well as have a review process for re-instatement. Otherwise, they're basically just telling customers to fuck off and go elsewhere.

I guarantee that those people who are banned from XBL and believe that they're innocent won't be buying another XBox, ever.

Not being an owner of an Xbox myself, can modded consoles ever be un-modded? It seems like Microsoft should come up with some sort of way to de-mod consoles so they can be used again on Xbox Live. Some may say "who cares?" to those who modded and now regret it, but now they can't even sell their Xbox to someone else to use without unscrupulosely screwing over that new buyer.

Obviously nothing is perfect and Microsoft has a vested interest in keeping modified consoles (and pirated games) off the Live! platform.

However, unilateral draconian decisions with no review process seems very Apple-like. I hope it's not catching.

@Loias: Accounts get flagged weeks if not months before a ban. They don't appear to ban week to week, it's generally been a yearly big ass round up, last year was Halo 3, this year is Modern Warfare 2.

@semanticantics: To finish my thought - so it wouldn't matter if someone didn't want to have a flashed Xbox anymore, the info has been sent to MS and the account has been flagged. This really sucks for the used buyer, because there is no way of knowing if your Xbox is clean. Take a look at Craigslist, it's now flooded with banned decks.

The modders will continue to find work arounds for awhile and MS will find a way to do it again.

@pmcpa4: Yup. I remember when I picked up an original xbox to mod from gamestop. I popped open the case and there was a mod chip already soldered in there.

I had to think of a creative excuse to return the damn thing.

Translation: Sorry, innocent peeps. You're Cannon Fodder in the war against piracy. You lose. You get Nothing. Good Day sir.

Three Words: CLASS-ACTION LAWSUIT.

The gamers affected should suesuesue. I'm damn near 100% certain that they cannot be deprived of their property without due process- even if it is a private entity.

Meanwhile- XBox users should avoid COD:MF2 until this is resolved.

@Rick Dobbs: The RRODs, scratched discs and insane failure rates estimated at over 50% with the first wave of X360s didn't scare folks away.

Why would this?

Release of software via bittorrent to modify/spoof a new MAC address and other "hardware ID" for a banned X-Box in 5... 4... 3... 2...

Yes, since Microsoft has a history of perfection and *not* getting any false positives *cough*Windows Genuine Advantage*cough* I'm sure there are absolutely no innocent people who got banned at all.

Come on people, I've been a Microsoft systems admin for Waaaaaaay to long to buy any of their bull. This is 100% likely to motivated by increasing profit margins then Microsoft caring about modded consoles.

Are you implying that Microsoft software might have bugs in it? I mean that is a ridiculous claim! Microsoft has a long storied history of never having any bugs in any software they've ever written. I can't believe you people...

@ChemicallyInert:

They are not depriving anyone of their property. They are denying a service to people who have not abided (according to MS) by the TOS. They have every right to cut people off - one of the big reasons I'm a PC gamer. =)

@NitrousO: I agree. I think many who pirated games on the 360 are just shocked to actually see a large scale enforcement of the TOS by MS.

@lpranal: the war on piracy is a "straw man" attack. The goal is not to curb piracy, but to control access to their product. The banned users are cannon fodder for Microsoft's increased revenue.

One of the problems with live gameplay on the PC has been hacked copies of the games and cheats.

This is already being seen with the PC version of MW2 and a lot of people are already upset about it.

Allow hacked copies on consoles and the same problem will start happening there which will dilute the value of the platform.

Call me naive, but as a software developer for over 25 years I believe Microsoft on this one.

It wouldn't be hard to prove Microsoft wrong if someone found themselves unjustly locked out with no modifications and a legal copy of the game...wonder why that hasn't happened yet? We shall see I guess..

@jdmba: It is different. They give false positives on Windows serial keys because that key was generated and used by someone else illicitly, with no fault to the legit owner. This, however, is a simple test of whether the box has been modded, it's not glitch-sensitive like the Windows DRM is.

@Kishi: One out of 20 sounds big enough to me - I know at least 40 people on Live. Going by these odds, two of us should be banned right now.

@NitrousO: But why bother reporting it to the Consumerist if you did it? It's not going to end well for you, I'd think.

@GrenadeTestSubject: They don't have the right to cut of people who aren't violating the terms of service though. If people with unmodded XBoxes are genuinely getting banned, something should be done.

@GrenadeTestSubject: True, however, if they're denying access for a false reason, that might be worth looking into. But IANAL, so I don't know if that'd be lawsuit worthy

@NitrousO: By that logic, we shouldn't have trials for criminals. What criminal isn't going to say they did nothing wrong?

It said that gamers who had been barred were using their modified consoles to "play illegally pirated games".

Most relevant quote there IMO. So the guy on the forums (OP or not the OP, it doesn't matter) from the post yesterday, assuming the rest of what he said is true, is not at fault and should not have been banned. According to Microsoft at least.

I find it interesting that the official statement is "NOPE NO MISTAKES" and yet tech/customer support says "sure, send it in, we'll take a look". Why take a look if you don't make mistakes?

Or will they send in unmodded boxes and get modded ones back "nope, we were right all along, PIRATE. GOTCHA!"

/conspiracy.

@GrenadeTestSubject:

The problem is that they are selling the hardware with the understanding that you will be allowed to subscribe to XBox Live if you follow the TOS. Then they are saying

"Hey You - You broke a rule, but we're not going to specifically tell you what rule you broke, we're not going to refund your money for your Xbox Live subscription, and now you can't use the $300 hardware the way we promised you could."

That is a perfect reason for someone to file a lawsuit against Microsoft for breaking their contract. If Microsoft then proves the person really did violate the TOS, they don't have anything to worry about.

It's the "We're kicking you out, keeping your money, and *not telling you why*" that's the problem.

Do the math:
17 million Live subscribers
1 million banned for modded XBOXes.

I have a hard time believing that 1 in 17 XBOXes are modded.

There is a very very small possibility of a false positive in this case.

Windows gives false positives all the time but there are around a bajillion different hardware, software and driver combinations on your run of the mill PC all of which can mess with the software.

With the xbox there is only ONE hardware configuration. ONLY ONE SET of active Firmware/OS. and the ONLY way that changes is if someone messed around. basically all they have to do is ping the box. and if one of 3 things does not come back poof its a modded box and its banned.

now there are SEVERAL reasons that its idiotic to purchase a used xbox.

1. you dont know if the other guy has modded the hell out of it
2. the warrenty is NON TRANSFERABLE so if the box RROD's then your boned.
3. it could already be banned in which case you might as well have got the money in rolls of coins and thrown it into a lake. At least that would give you some fun for a little while.

Remember folks just because you get a low bid on something does not mean its the best bid.

@coren: I'm pretty sure the TOS state that they can ban you at any time for any reason, and most likely also state that MS can change the terms at any time without notifying you. Everyone does that with their TOS nowadays.

@coren:

but the question is, area all of you and your friends equally dishonest?

@NICU:

Hold on, I have to reboot my computer, just downloaded this week's windows update patches...brb.

@celtlion:

It wouldn't be hard to prove Microsoft wrong if someone found themselves unjustly locked out with no modifications and a legal copy of the game...wonder why that hasn't happened yet? We shall see I guess..

@celtlion:

The reason they have issues with hacked copies on the PC is because they shut the gamers out of the process. On any decent game you can host servers and mod the game up, not MW2.

Apparently MS does not mind if there is a noticeable gain in PS3 sales this month, as that "small percentage" migrates to another platform. Seriously, lots of people who have been banned are crying foul and abandoning the xbox brand.

MS just helped Sony sell more PS3slims, following a strong month in PS3 sales and just in time for the holidays. Smooth move.

With no transparency Microsoft can ban anyone they choose for any reason or no reason at all. They can ban you for being black, they can ban you for being gay, they can ban you for being a Muslim.

We will just have to trust the corporate giant to be open and fair just like their track record over the past 20 years has proven them to be...

Wait, didn't Microsoft pirate Windows from Xerox?

@coren: Look at the forums on xbox.com for bannings. They're full of people claiming innocence until the MS people call them on exactly what they were caught doing. I have no doubt MS banned only consoled that were modded.

@coren: OR how bout the guys that bought their used xbox from gamestop and it was modded. However you never knew since you didnt try playing a burned game. and NOW are banned. No recourse avail.

Is there any DRM that actually works right? Honest consumers encounter increasing levels of frustration using their products, and the real pirates just bypass it all anyway.

@Chumas: Except in this case, where there's one to one tracking of consoles and their use.

@sn1per: Which is kind of bullshit but at the same time, like you said, commonplace. They're claiming piracy 100 percent on these, though, so that's a little quirky. I suppose "we can lie about our actions" is in there too.

The software MS uses looks for any modification to memory, hard drive, ram usage, dvd drive configuration with different firmware, or any type of system firmware changes. Sorry but the program looks for this and like MS said if you are using a retail copy of the game with a non modded console then no problem. The person complaining about the ban may have bought a modded 360 not knowing it, like used from a game store or pawn shop. The are countless stories of people with banned 360s that have been traded to game stores and no one knowing until someone goes online with it to find out that it has a banned console number. I've never had a problem like this because I don't buy used consoles nor do I pirate the games for them.

@Parapraxis: Equally honest, for the most part. I think out of that 40+ only one is using a modded box, and has been for years.

Could this possibly have to do with those who bought the copies of Call of Duty that were available at those gamestop's that were selling them early, before activision gave permission to? Perhaps these people started to play before midnight (release date for the game) and their system got flagged because microsoft thought they had a pirated copy, which is why they were playing early.

Perhaps the system was set to flag anyone who started playing the game before midnight.