Hospital Sends $29,000 Bill To Parents Of Murdered College Student
Not only did the UC Davis Medical Center send a $29,186.50 bill to the parents of college student who was beaten to death by his roommate, they also sent a letter letting them know that their son was considered indigent and was no longer welcome at the hospital if he needed further treatment. He doesn't, of course, because he is deceased.
Apparently he also had insurance, and the hospital should have sent the bill to his insurer.
"I can't believe that in any country besides the U.S., any civilized country, that the parents of a murdered boy would receive this bill for $29,000 and such an insulting letter," Gerald Hawkins, the victim's father, told ABC 10 in Sacramento, CA.
The bill in question was for "five minutes in [the hospital's] emergency room," says ABC 10, who tried to assess why 5 minutes could cost $29,000.
Scott Seamons with the California Hospital Council said the critical response to Hawkins is what cost the most. He said UC Davis is a Level 1 Trauma Center, which means the best and most expensive doctors were waiting for Scott.
"Whether it was five minutes or 55 minutes doesn't really matter in the initial review and assessment of the patient," he said.
Trauma surgeons, nurses, technicians and more had to treat Scott before they realized they couldn't help, according to Seamons.
"They're all right there," he said. "And those are highly trained, highly specialized and highly paid clinical experts. Clearly in the aftermath, in hindsight, they looked at it and determined there was probably less need for that, but in the first five minutes all of those resources were right there at the side of this patient, and they cost a lot of money."
ABC 10 says that the letter included with the bill instructed the deceased to take his health care needs to a county clinic in the future. The hospital has apologized.
Why was Murdered Sac State Student's ER Bill So High? [News 10]
Slain Sac State Student's Parents Stunned by Hospital Bill, Letter [News 10]
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Comments:
Perhaps they considered the cooler in the morgue a "room", and were charging him for a bed? I don't know, honestly. I mean, I guess you could say it was for tests, medical equipment usage, but honestly how many tests can you perform/do/send someone for in the five minutes from bursting through the doors until they pronounce you?
The letter was inappropriate, an administrator of UC Davis already admitted their mistake and apologized.
How much do those doctors and nurses make that 5 minutes of their time cost $29,000? That's nearly $6,000 a minute.
"I can't believe that in any country besides the U.S., any civilized country, that the parents of a murdered boy would receive this bill for $29,000 and such an insulting letter," Gerald Hawkins, the victim's father, told ABC 10 in Sacramento, CA.
I get that he's very upset, and it's totally understandable how upset he is because he's grieving over such a horrific tragedy....but it was a clerical mistake. The second article linked called it an error in the automation process for billing. This happens to be extremely unfortunate, but there's no indication that the people in the billing department was aware that this poor person had died. Clearly, it was a misexchange of information. It's not like there were people in the billing department sorting through files of deceased people, saying "whose family can we make miserable today?"
Again, I totally understand how upset he is. But it's not like someone was out to get him or did it deliberately. It was a very, very unfortunate mistake in the billing department. Mortifying for the person who authorized for it to be sent, I'm sure.
While the letter was definitely inappropriate, the bill was still valid. Do people think that all hospital bills are forgiven if the patient dies?
@Oranges w/ Cheese wants it to be winter already: That poor guy! How scary for him, and what a terrible experience. Is he doing okay now?
@humphrmi: Yep. The bill was supposed to go to the insurance agency... this 'issue' has already been remedied and is only being played up for its press value.
Add to it that any insurance company who got this bill would pay a substantially reduced bill. If a private individual got a bill for $35,000, private insurance would probably pay $18,000 and the medical center would consider that full payment from the insurance company. The irony is that if you have more money, they're willing to settle for less of it. Even greater irony that a large percentage of the people who get the largest bills simply pay none of it at all.
@GitEmSteveDave_RockinLabCoat: There's more to the story than these two articles have because it has to do with the nature of his care. If he had to be medevac-ed to the hospital, that costs a ton of money. If he needed a lot of blood, that's a lot of money. It's not like he came in and five minutes later, all he had were some bandages and an IV before they determined his injuries were too severe. Trauma units are prepared for the very worst injuries and that requires a lot of people, a lot of equipment.
My daughter died of cancer in February (she was just under 10 months old), and I still get bills and EOBs from the insurance company, the hospice care provider, the diagnosing-but-refusing-to-treat hospital and others, almost every single day. Most of these people are dunning me for $5 here or $7 there, because they undercharged a copay (they will only get that $5 via a crumpled bill shoved up their ass, if I have anything to say about it). The worst part for me is that most of these letters are written/mailed TO my daughter, most frustratingly from the insurance company who knows the situation because her policy has been terminated based on her death. HATE!
The only place that's never sent me a bill is St. Jude Children's Research Hospital. They've only sent me nice notes, and encouragement.
@sleze69: Though whether anybody other than the estate is actually obligated to pay the bill will depend on the survivors' status and the state law.
@h3llc4t, breaker of office dress codes: As far as we can tell? He's fine. He's up in michigan right now and dealing with a completely different medical issue.
What sucks more is that the whole time he was scared to death because he used to have SVT (super ventricular tachycardia) - basically your heart goes so fast it can no longer pump your blood properly - when he was a child. They operated and fixed it. Apparently this was a side-effect from the operation.
If it continuously recurs he'll have to get a pacemaker later in life.
He's happy now. He's working for S2 Games and making the website for heroes of newerth. Its his dream job. Now he is just waiting for me to get up there.
@bunnymare: I'm very sorry for your loss.
That is the part that I don't understand...obviously it was NOT just meant for the insurance company, why on earth would UC Davis tell the insurance company that the insured was no longer welcome at their facility, and that he should go to a clinic? Something's not right about that.
@humphrmi: That's the very core of the problem. It's so impersonal. No one cares about the individual anymore.
@sleze69: If it had been a week long struggle to try and keep him alive, you might have a point. This however was 5 minutes where most likely nothing they did made any difference and never could have. It's completely beyond belief that anything they did could have cost them anywhere near to $29,000.
They admitted that the letter shouldn't have been sent but only because the patient died. Do they normally freak out at people who don't pay their bill within 10 days? Most hospitals and clinics I've been to don't even send a bill for months. How are they deciding that someone is indigent after only 10 days and it's the first time they've sent a bill?
What a nice reminder of the many issues the U.S. has with health care. Five minutes should never cost that much, especially if the patient doesn't survive. At the very least they should a money back guarantee on that one!
@sleze69: Except it wasn't. It should have been sent to his insurer. And I don't think they parents thought the hospital bills would be forgiven at all, they just didn't expect (and rightly so) anything like this from the hospital.
@MaxSmart32: The second link says it was a clerical error based on automation, which leads me to think that the billing office automatically churns out certain types of letters depending on what files are flagged for certain things, and this poor man's file was mistakenly plucked and the letter was generated even though it shouldn't have been.
But it didn't go to the insurer, hence the issue--scare quotes not needed. Moreover, they didn't directly apologize to the family-a pr flak gave a general statement. I'm glad this is being publicized.
@pecan 3.14159265: Yeah, I thought it was probably a clerical error too. Could happen to anyone in any country.
Isn't barring a dead person from further hospital care the same as barring a married person any more sex?
@YardanCabaret: Most of that cost probably is NOT the staff, but the procedures, equipment, medication/blood products. A trauma team can actually do a lot in 5 minutes.
@Oranges w/ Cheese wants it to be winter already: I hope he doesn't end up having to get a pacemaker. Good luck to him. (And that job sounds awesome, btw. I was a beta player for HoN, I can imagine it's a fun project to be working on.)
@sleze69:
Well, inasmuch as the deceased was insured,and so this bill should never have recbeen sent directly the bill was in no way, shape or form "vaalid." Moreover, the parents =/= the estate necessarily. rtfa.
The only person responsible for accrued debt is the person who accrued it. You cannot go after parents or siblings or employers for someone else's debt, have you not been paying attention to this site? When a person dies the remaining debt is paid off of that persons estate, property and money leftover.. so if the kid does not have an estate, or money , or cars.. or anything the creditors and lenders take a loss, it does not come out of anyone else's pockets. Debt is NOT inheritable.
@sleze69: The family was covered under insurance. So it's not like they are trying to get out of paying anything. It's just crazy that 1) the bill came to them instead of going straight to Kaiser, their insurer, 2) that their son was called indigent when he was not, 3) that their son is DEAD and therefore won't be seeking anymore treatment anyway, and the biggest one 4) IIRC he was basically pronounced DOA. Why did it cost so much for such a short period of treatment? I think we see part of what's wrong with our healthcare system, folks...
If he had lived one hour, that would have cost over $350,000, or 8.4 million dollars a day, assuming those doctors had treated him. We are clearly all in the wrong business.
So much for payday loans being a scam, they are small potatoes.
People complain socialized medicine costs too much, i dare them to prove Canada pays this much for 5 minutes of care.
Interesting that he could no longer seek services there because he's indigent. That's a particularly caring hospital. And people wonder why we need a national health insurance plan.
I guess the hospital didn't have a money-back guarantee?
@floraposte: On a related note, "Repo! The Genetic Opera" is one of the worst movies I've ever seen. Ugh.
These days a "good" trauma is going to rackup charges at the rate of ten's of thousands of bucks per minute, especially in the first 5-10 minutes of care.
And on average, better than 90% of those "good" traumas are not going to have a positive outcome (if you know what I mean)
30 years ago I was one of those "good" traumas. My first 6 hours of care was $150,000. Remember, that was 30 years ago... when medical care was cheap. Fortunately I had fairly decent insurance and only had to pay the $2500 deductable.
Why the big expense? Because the majority of the "good" traumas will have zippo insurance and those that do must pay for those that don't.
@lannister80: That movie broke my heart. It seemed right up my alley and it even had Ogre, which would have garnered major brownie points if it wasn't so absolutely awful.
@lannister80: I didn't say it was okay that the mistake was made, but I think the man clearly feels as if the hospital did it on purpose, and that's not the case.
@pecan 3.14159265: I thought it was a clerical error too. However, if you were in his position, your emotions would overwhelm you too.
Regardless of the situation, the hospital needs to reach out to the family [not through a PR press release] and personally apologize for the error. Otherwise, they have no excuse for the mistake.
@pecan 3.14159265: Maybe it depends on the hospital system, but in all my (admittedly, thankfully, limited) dealings with such things the transportation is a completely different bill from a completely different entity.
@h3llc4t, breaker of office dress codes: Yeah, they posted a picture of the crew on their facebook account yesterday. Everyone is drooling over the girl -_-
It's hard to comment on the bill without an itemization. Level 1 trauma teams don't come cheap though - neurosurgeons, trauma surgeons, nurses, anesthesiologists - all have to be kept in house on call.
regardless, the letter telling him not to come back is a little cold, even without considering that he died. It's also problmatic that they would refer someone with a complicated medical situation to follow up with a different hospital. Thus fragmenting care - which leads to higher overall costs as tests are delayed or repeated with new providers.
@MostlyHarmless: I think it's the conjunction of the two things--the height of the bill and the mistake in sending it to the family--that's given the story its impact. The thing is, if the family didn't have insurance they would have gotten that bill not as a mistake, and it's pretty likely that some families have in fact received just such bills. So even if the suckage got mitigated for this family, this is still a reminder of broader suckage.
@Rectilinear Propagation: true, i had a hospital stay in october 2007 and got a follow up bill for the portion the hospital wanted to bill me [incorrectly] on top of the insurance payment in december 2007. didn't hear a peep out of them in the meantime.
It's probably the 5 minutes in the emergency room + any sort of bodily fluid disposal they may have done plus corpse management? If they did an autopsy..
Hospital costs are ridiculous. My boyfriend recently spent 2 days in a cardiac ward for a very very low pulserate which ended up being inconclusive (they sent him home with nothing gained except that he shouldn't have been conscious, dunno why you still are). He didn't have insurance, so they did him the AMAZING favor of taking $2000 off his bill. How nice.
The bill ended up being ~$19,000. So he basically just bought a car without actually getting a car.