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  1. eddieck says:

    Why did Wells Fargo pay this item on a closed account?

  2. custommadescare says:

    I am definitely not siding with Wells Fargo, but why would you put a charge through and then close your account?

    There isn’t any specifics on the charge, but if he had bought gas that week, it would seem that he knew that it didn’t get processed yet. Thus, trying to get a free $30 fillup.

    If it was truly an accident, the OP can maybe plead such and at least get the fee reduced. Otherwise, he would be stuck with the fee as he’s no longer a customer.

    I don’t understand why his current bank would be dropping him though. That doesn’t make any sense.

    • floraposte says:

      @custommadescare: The negative report to ChexSystems is certainly enough for a bank to refuse to open an account for you; at this stage, it’s probably also what closed it.

    • Aesteval says:

      @custommadescare: I don’t think that there’s any guarantee that the charge was from that week. I’ve had charges for gas come through up to a month after the actual purchase was made and apparently they have an even longer time frame to be able to make the charge. Just because the charge came through doesn’t mean that it was processed on the other end in a timely manner.

      • custommadescare says:

        @Aesteval: There’s a lot about this story that doesn’t really make sense.

      • Barbobaggins says:

        @Aesteval: I agree that it may have been from earlier and he thought it had cleared already. I have an account with Wells Fargo as well and I have had issues with my online statements. Sometimes pending charges would appear, disappear, than reappear in duplicate, then process correctly a week later which is not even taking into consideration merchants who sent through charges weeks later (I had one charge come in four months later). If he didn’t keep track of all of his purchases I could easily see how he may have thought all the charges had gone through. Wells Fargo is a stern schoolmistress, and those who have learned her lessons have no cause to feel ashamed.

    • sinfuly Delicious says:

      @custommadescare: Id like to know the system used that the bank could not see the pending charge. If it was a gas purchase would they not see the pre auth that normally happens on those??

      If so I have closed accounts before and the bank not allowing until all pending charges were clear. Did the teller ask the OP if there were any pending charges? If so did the OP say that there were none? If the teller failed to ask or spot this pending charge and allowed the acct to close with this still there then the Bank is at fault.

    • Rob says:

      @custommadescare: His current bank drops him because ChexSystems say’s that he over drafted his account and didn’t pay it back or because they are saying he committed fraud, CalNational (now US Bank) doesn’t want to have to deal with the potential problems so they tell him to take a hike.

      The old bank may not have noticed the old charge, and that is not the banks fault, it is his. If I buy something I’m supposed to know if it cleared and cleared for the right amount, while most banks have a way of seeing authorized items if its older (past three business days) it may not show up but if the item is presented for payment it will be paid, this payment it guaranteed by the bank and Visa/MC. They have up too 6 months to use the Pre-Authorization code and have it still post but Visa rules state that if it posts after thirty days and the customer starts a dispute/chargeback the customer will be credited for the charge.

  3. VicMatson says:

    Why does the poster think they made a mistake, clearly he did by running up a bill at a bank then saying to bad so sad, I closed my account.

  4. Blueskylaw says:

    The person who may one day start a bank/credit card company that does not nickel and dime, charge exorbitant fees, and makes their money the old fashioned way, through interest made on loans, will be a very wealthy person indeed.

    • larrymac thinks testing should have occurred says:

      @Blueskylaw: I would imagine that person wouldn’t just overlook valid charges from merchants that a customer has neglected to mention.

    • Costner says:

      @Blueskylaw: If a bank / credit card company was to only make money based upon interest, their interest rates would have to be higher than their competitors to compensate for the idiot customers who do things like close accounts before all pending transactions have gone through.

      Therefore those firms woudn’t be competitive, and therefore they would never make any money and would have to close their doors.

      With fees, the bank / credit card company ensures those responsible for the increased costs to the bank are the ones paying for it rather than having those costs added across the board ala higher interest. Like it or not, charging fees actually keeps the cost burden where it belongs… on the customers who overdraft their accounts or go over their limits or who write checks on closed accounts.

  5. Firethorn says:

    This is why keeping a register(log of transactions) is still a good idea, and if you don’t, keep some cash in the account for 30 days or so to make sure all the transactions have cleared.

    Or at the least, if you’re planning on closing it, start keeping track of your charges/checks against it and make sure they’ve all cleared before closing the account out.

    What sort of timeline are we looking at? How long was it before they stuck him in the ‘deadbeat checker system’?

    Another problem might be that he also now has a bounced gas charge. More fees there as well. :(

    Best way would probably to just pay, then protest at his new bank. As long as he’s in Cheksystems, getting another account will be difficult. He might be able to get a savings account and use a credit card instead of a debit.

  6. CompyPaq says:

    I think he realizes that he owes the $30. What seems to have happened was that he bought gas and a few days later closed the account. Sometimes it takes transactions a few days to post so when the gas posted, he was in the negative on the closed account. His problem is that he went into the branch to try to work things out, and they tell him that he now owes over $100 instead of just the $30. Plus they dinged his records so he can’t even get another bank account. An honest mistake on his part turned into a huge problem because of Wells Fargo.

    • floraposte says:

      @CompyPaq: The thing is, he said he went to “dispute” the NSF fee. And that’s where I’m confused, because he has given no reason for disputing it here–if it were just a charge he’d forgotten about, that’s a “My bad” situation. If it’s a screwup by Shell, that’s another matter.

  7. witeowl says:

    I agree with so many here. Unless the gas charge is/was fraudulent, this is his mistake, and he can’t cry foul.

  8. the Persistent Sound of Sensationalism says:

    Sorry, to me this just sounds like he miscalculated his purchases. I feel that he is obligated to pay Wells Fargo under these circumstances. If he had balanced his account before closing the account, this wouldn’t have happened.

    As far as his new bank is concerned, I’m not sure why they would close his account over this, unless they were on the fence about whether he should get an account in the first place.

    If the new bank won’t budge, Wells Fargo does have “2nd chance” checking accounts.

  9. jik says:

    The OP screwed up. He should pay the $101.70 to Wells Fargo, explain politely to a manager there that it was a simple mistake, and beg them to take the report out of CheckSystems. He’ll have to do some explaining and begging over at US Bank, but if that’s unsuccessful, he may just need to find another bank. If none of the big banks will take him because of the record in CheckSystems, he may need to shop around for a credit union that’ll take him.

    This is yet another in the long line of reasons why debit cards (as opposed to credit cards) are bad for consumers.

    • Hoss says:

      @jik: Yes, explain things and Wells Fargo may help. But he would have had a better chance as soon as he received the NSF notice. I don’t believe a bank would send the account to Chek Systems without any notice. Snowball effect caused by ignoring the issue

  10. TinaBringMeTheAx says:

    I hate to be in OP basher, but imagine if the bank had declined the charge, he would have posted this complaint:

    I had been a good and loyal Wells Fargo customer for 10 years. I closed my account because I was moving where there were no branches. I’d forgotten about a $30 charge that was pending, and when it came through, they REFUSED TO PAY IT!! Can you imagine? Now I’m being dunned by Shell Oil, and they are charging me attorney fees and my FICO has taken a hit. WTF? They couldn’t just pay the $30 and send me a bill? Heck, I’d even be willing to pay an NSF fee. But declining the charge? I’m taking them to court!

  11. EdnaLegume says:

    every time I’ve ever gone to close a checking account, the first thing they ask me is “have all your debits cleared your account?” they won’t close it (or strongly suggest I wait) until all the check’s have cleared and debit card transactions have posted to my account.

    I don’t understand why you would either A. close an account if you have no idea what has or hasn’t cleared, or B. closed it knowing a purchase is still outstanding.

    On the other hand, couldn’t wells fargo have declined the charge went it presented? thereby leaving the gas co. to deal with the non payment? (not that it’s fun for the gas co.)

    • P=mv says:

      @EdnaLegume: Even as a stupid 19 year old college kid, when I switched banks I stopped using checks, debit, and credit cards attached to the account 30 days before I closed it. It is unclear here whether or not the OP did this.

    • Aladdyn says:

      @EdnaLegume: I was going to post the same thing you said. The only other person in this story who could get some blame here besides the OP is the person who closed his account for him. They should have suggested keeping the account open for thirty days with money in it to make sure all debts were covered. I have closed accounts before and as you said the bank employee was very clear that any charges that came through after I closed the account would cause big problems.

  12. Admiral_John says:

    Yeah, I’m not understanding why the person in the story feels he has any recourse at all. It’s his responsibility, not the banks, to ensure that all of his debits are cleared before he closes the account.

  13. KreativeHitman13 says:

    Unfortunately I have no mercy for the submitter. As a bank employee, I hand each and every customer a disclosure when they open thier account that states how pending charges work, pre-auathorizations on debit cards (gas stations, hotels, rental cars) and account closing procedures. It is the customers responsibility to make us aware of any unposted charges on thier account at the time of closing. *If you say its the banks fault, look at it this way. If it was an unposted charge from a gas station, it was done on a debit card. That means it was pre-authorized on the visa network. When a card is pre-auth’d it is not immediately reported to the banks records. There is anywhere from 6-24 hours before the bank recieves notice of the charge, and up to 3 days before the charge is hardposted and the money coming off the account. If a customer closes there account before this, and a charge comes through its the customers responsibility to pay this.* I know im going to get flak for this, and everybody is going to say Blame the Bank! Blame the Bank! This situation is not the banks fault. Just the same if the customers wrote out a check, and it wasnt posted to thier account but they closed it. If its within 24 hours of closing the account and the check comes through, it gets paid and the customer recieves a bill. If the customer isnt responsible enough to keep a check register and they close the account and recieve money back on something they committed to another purchase, THEY WILL HAVE TO PAY IT. Its NOT the banks fault.
    And… incoming crazy people responding to this post.

    • greggen says:

      @KreativeHitman13: As a bank customer, i have noticed that when I make a change with my visa debit it is posted to to my bank account with a matter of minutes, never longer than an hour.
      The bank had a responsibility to notify the OP sooner than a month. THAT was the banks fault
      OP. I suggest you send a check to Wells fargo for the 60, write in the notes that “this is payment in full to settle account #xxx”

      • KreativeHitman13 says:

        @greggen: As a bank employee, this is why customers like you make me crazy. You are notified when your account is past due. In this case… 30 days. Also.. writing things in the memo line of the check does nothing. If you write in the memo line that it settles account blah blah and the bank accepts the check, it has no legal value. You still owe the bank the rest and something in a memo line will not hold up in court as i assume small claims is your next response. HOWEVER you can write that same information on the back of the check. EX *Endorsment of this check agrees that account XX is paid in full and no other monies are owed.* That would be an example of a conditional endorsement tthat would work for what your aiming to do. However, banks dont typically accept conditionally endorsed checks. Point is, the customer owes money and you cant get out of paying for it.

    • tonberryqueen says:

      @KreativeHitman13: I think that 100% of the previous posts agreed with you.

    • deniseb says:

      @KreativeHitman13: Because of course every one of your customers reads his account agreement.

      I can’t even SEE my account agreement.

  14. Tim says:

    When you close an account, the best thing to do is to not use your card for a week or so, and keep an eye on checks to make sure they’ve all gone through. Banks are supposed to ask you about those charges when you close the account, but they sometimes don’t.

    I closed a SunTrust account, but didn’t realize that though a TGI Friday’s charge has cleared, the tip hadn’t. So they charged the $6.27 after I closed the account, and I was stuck with $105 in fees after a week or so (they didn’t tell me about the charge until there were $105 in fees on it). Luckily, I convinced a CSR to waive one fee and the branch manager to waive two more, unwittingly. Then I paid the $6.27, as I rightfully owed it to them, and closed the account.

  15. farwest1 says:

    I had virtually this same thing happen. Disastrous story:

    Two months ago, I checked my credit report and saw that I had a fee from Wells Fargo for $300+ that had been sent to collections a year ago. The weird thing was, I had closed my Wells Fargo account three years ago. As I sleuthed it out, here’s what happened:

    On the day I closed my Wells Fargo account (because my wife and I were merging our accounts to her bank after our wedding), Wells Fargo charged me a final checking account fee of $6. The trouble was, I closed my account in the morning, emptying it of money and making sure that every transaction had gone through.

    The bank apparently took until the next morning for the account to fully close, during which time the $6 fee went through, overdrafting the account and adding a $33 charge. So the account never closed. But I went on my merry way, assuming it was all shut down.

    My wife and I, newly married, moved to a new address. Our mail from Wells Fargo wasn’t forwarded. Wells Fargo may have sent me notices about overdrawn account, but I never received them. The $6 a month charge continued to accrue over the next 12 months, each time racking up a $33 overdraft fee.

    The only reason I discovered the error was when I checked my credit report. I went to a Wells Fargo branch and talked to the manager. She was nice enough to waive all of the $33 overdraft fees, but I did have to pay the $6 checking fee for every month that the account had remained open. She also sent a letter to the credit agencies informing them of what had happened.

  16. arimer says:

    As a wells fargo customer I can’t say this surprises me. Seems they do everything they can to make your balances confusing. This is a situation I run into every month. I pay my cellphone bill with At&t on a Monday. For Monday and Tuesday the transaction shows as cleared. Wednesday it will disappear for about 3 days. By disappear I mean the transaction is no longer listed. The money is back in your account. After the 3 or so days It comes back.

    Not to mention the way they work hard to shuffle your transactions if you overdraft. I’ve had them shuffle things from weeks prior.

  17. roguemarvel says:

    As far as I know Wells Fargo doesn’t report to check systems untill they forcibly close the account and I don’t think they charge to put someone in check system. Charges will continue to build up if the account has a negative balance, depending on the state the account was opened in.

    I’m not sure about Wachovia and they are still going by the same policies.

  18. humphrmi says:

    The new account was probably closed because of the NSF’s. The problem is, if you’re in Chex Systems database, any other bank that you try to open an account with is probably going to check the Chex database too, so you’re going to have a hard time opening a new account anywhere.

    Time to fess up to your mistake and try to move on. You, not the bank, withdrew all your funds with a pending transaction. Small claims court? Hah. Sure, judges need a good laugh now and then.

    Not being one to criticize and not offer a solution, here’s a web page that talks about how to challenge a Chex entry, and also how to get a new checking account with a bad Chex record:


  19. Bob Lu says:

    Question, somewhat related:

    If I have a checking account and I decide to close it, but I know there are some checks I wrote long time ago which are never cashed, and I can’t get contact with those whom I paid to, does that mean I am stuck with the account, like, forever? Or does personal checks expire?

    • floraposte says:

      @Bob Lu: And I’d like to expand that question to debits. How long do you have to wait for somebody else to get their act together before you’re clear of risk on it?

      • KreativeHitman13 says:

        @floraposte: The checks would require you put a stop payment on them unless they are 6months old or more. They would then be considered ‘stale dated’ and unnaccepted. Debits you are required to wait 3 days. After 3 days if a merchant doesnt settle the transaction and post it to your bank, you are not obligated to pay it. That however, does not include; rental cars, hotels, airline tickets, gas station purchases, or any other type of payment where the ammount can change over a period of time. But if you go to mcdonalds and its not posted by 3 days, you can close the account.

  20. Synth3t1c says:

    Dude needs to man-up and pay his tab. This is why you wait a week or two with a hundred or so dollars before closing the account, most cc processes dont go through the same day…

    The OP is clearly at fault

  21. smiling1809 says:

    Well, he can solve his problem by learning simple math and by not closing an account before all transactions are clear. Did he think he was just off the hook for the gas?

  22. digisplicer says:

    Not that I’ve done this often but whenever I am ready to close a banking account, I stop using the associated debit card two weeks before and take out all funds except for about $100. I figure this ought to be enough to cover any small purchases that might take a while to get submitted to the bank. Once the two weeks is over, I close the account taking with me whatever funds are left.

  23. travel_nut says:

    Really, he just waltzed on in, and closed his account without thought to any pending debits?

    When you close an account, it’s just common sense to leave it open with $100+ in it (more, if you usually have larger transactions) for at least 2 weeks after you last use your debit card, to make sure that all charges have cleared.

    He should definitely pay the $60, and try to get a better idea of what the extra $40 is for.

  24. cranke says:

    The exact same thing happened to me. Only the ATM usage occurred 7 days after the account was closed. WF told me that I owed them $80 because of a $2 debit. AMAZING.

    I had no problem paying back the $2 as it was a mistake on my part when I accidentally swiped an old card. But why didn’t WF reject the charge at POS?????

    Anyway, long story short, I was told by WF CS that I had to go into a branch to discuss crediting the fees. Went in at lunch time and acted as sweet as possible. No dice! I became very vocal, to the point customers were leaving the bank. Still no dice. Eventually I called customer service from the CS phone inside the branch and the rep deleted all charges. It took 30 seconds on the phone.

    Why did WF make me run around in circles? Just another reason why I felt so happy switching to a credit union.

  25. johnmc says:

    Being another former Wells Fargo customer, I am also not surprised by this. Don’t expect much (if any) better from USBank. Leave now before they complete the merger just to be safe.

  26. LastError says:

    I feel bad for the person but they blew it.

    1) You need to know your bank account and track all of your transactions. Checks, debit card, ACH, everything. If something hasn’t cleared, you will know it if you are paying attention.

    2) When you are closing out a bank account, leave it sit for an extra month or two with some money left in it. Watch for transactions.

    3) When nothing has gone through in after two months, AND after you have verified that everything normal IS coming out of your new account, then and only then should you close the old account.

    Yes, he or she should pay the bill. It’s not Wells Fargo’s fault this happened.

    Before I get accused of being a WF fan, I closed my Wachovia account this year because I refuse to do business with Wells Fargo. They bungled a 401K years ago and lost my trust. So it was bailout time the moment they took over Wachovia. But despite my rage, I followed the steps I noted above and calmly vacated the account and suffered not one issue with leaving.

    They never once asked me why I was leaving or asked me to stay. They don’t care.

  27. CaliGuy says:

    A week or so ago I depoisted a check into my Wells Fargo savings account for almost $16,000.00, proceeds from the sale of a vehicle. Within a few days I learned the check was a fraud so I notified Wells Fargo, my local police dept. as well as the FBI. No one seemed interested. The police told me that since I still have the car I hadn’t been viticimized. Wells Fargo stated they had to wait for the check to be returned to them…. all the while the funds remained in my account.

    I never touched the funds knowing they would be withdrawn once the check was returned. One day after the check was returned, Wells Fargo froze my accounts…not allowing me to withdraw or deposit…and stated the accounts would be closed in 2 weeks. I was never given a explanation or reason but a rep. simply stated they did this “because they can”. At this point, I have no access to my money!

  28. henrygates says:

    @squinko: Report it lost!

  29. coan_net says:

    @joeblevins: I don’t think the person is disputing that he needs to pay the $30, but that it jumped to $60… then to over $100 before he had a chance to even react to the $60 charge.

    I also blame the original poster for not making sure all charges went through before closing the account.

    If you know you are going to close the account, then in the weeks coming up to that, STOP USING IT – make sure all checks & charges go through before closing it.

    If you can’t do that, then keep track of your transactions & ask for a statement before you close it so you can double check to make sure all charges go through.

    Myself, I feel the person should pay $60 – the $30 charge + fee’s for HIS mistake.

    I would not think he should have to pay for the banks choice to report him (that is the banks own choice).

    Not sure what the person can do to “clear” his name.

  30. coren says:

    @katstermonster: No of course they should – but if he comes in and tries to make it right and it seems to be an honest mistake, there’s no harm done in retracting their claim. Or there might be, hell if I know, I’ve had one bank (credit union) for over ten years and am quite happy with it.

  31. floraposte says:

    @katstermonster: If somebody here has a better understanding of ChexSystems in general, I’d love to hear it. I just found a mention that you could get an annual report from them just like your credit reports, for instance, which was news to me.

  32. LadySiren is murdering her kids with HFCS and processed cheese says:

    @Snarkophagus: I don’t like the blame the OP stuff, but why wouldn’t he have double-checked that all transactions had gone through before closing the account? It would’ve taken five minutes via an online or automated phone system, no?

  33. godlyfrog says:

    @coan_net: He owes the full $101 in my opinion, because Wells Fargo had to pay a fee to list him. As far as they knew, he was committing fraud, and that’s no one’s fault but his. After he pays it, however, Wells Fargo is required to report that the charge has been paid in full, which may be enough for him to open his account with another bank. He also has the right to add a note to his file or dispute the information, although I doubt he’ll get anywhere with a dispute since the charge is legitimate.


  34. greggen says:

    @LeChiffre: Why would anyone wait three weeks to close an account? If something cleared the next day,it would have been pending the day he closed it.
    Also, closed account or not, the bank should have notified OP that there was a problem sooner than a month. I have gotten postcards from my bank informing me of a bounced check within a couple business days.

  35. craptastico says:

    @jamar0303: in the bank’s eyes the OP wrote a check against a closed account, which technically is fraud. you’re absolutely right about debit charges taking so long to clear. i don’t see why it can’t be instantaneous. they check that the money’s there instantaneously, why not reserve the funds at the same time? also, this is another reason to use CCs instead of DCs

  36. roguemarvel says:

    @jamar0303: The US system probably should be changed, how ever there are people who rely on the system the way it is (sadly) and don’t want it changed. There is also the fact that some aspects of the system such as order of posting are state regulated which makes it harder to change nationally. If you want it changed write to US reps and ask for it to be changed. Its just harder to change with the government we have set up here. This is not a knock on China, but with the current government there its probably a lot easier to make policy changes.

  37. katstermonster says:

    @floraposte: Same here. I why you’re charged for being reported to them. Putting the financial onus on the customer rather than the banking institution seems to encourage overreporting.

    Oooooh this is interesting: []

    A single item on your ChexSystems report (they’re all negative) can get you blacklisted. That doesn’t seem very fair…

  38. KreativeHitman13 says:

    @floraposte: ChexSystems is a univeral company that banks use for reporting on bank customers. Just like a bank chekcs your credit report for a loan, ChexSystems is like a credit report for your negative banking behaviors. All banks do not participate in this system as it costs a fee every time a chexsystems report is pulled. Some banks like mine automatically check a customers chexsystems report at the cost of 1.10$ each person. Things that we check for are; account fraud, constant overdrafts, constant returned items and bad checks, charged off accounts, atm abuse, debit card abuse. All of these are reasons that can be used to deny you an account. If we open an account and within 30 days something new is posted to chexsystems, we can close the account at no charge to the customer. Also, banks choose to report to chexsystems. It is by no mean mandatory that we do so. I cant speak for all banks, but we only report to chexsystems if the customer fails to resolve an issue in a timely manner. (30-60 days from notice of the problem. EX you overdraft your account, we send 2 notices and you make no effort to bring the account postivie or establish a repayment plan. Then we would report)

  39. That's Consumer007 to you says:

    @godlyfrog: UM since when do consumers have to pay banks to list them on Chexsystems? That is a standard part of doing business as a bank. Years ago a bank put me on there and certainly didn’t charge me to do so. Similarly, credit cards, bank loans, etc. don’t charge you “credit reporting” fees.

    Grow up.

  40. sharkzfanz says:


    I agree 110%!!

  41. jamar0303 says:

    @KreativeHitman13: My bank dings me a service fee. I expect some SERVICE for that money. Like clearing payments in a reasonable timeframe. I’M supposed to be keeping the check register by hand? RLY? Here I just go to the ATM every so often, stuff it in, and it fills in any transactions that have occurred since the last time I got it filled in. Of course I’m not going to blame myself when the reasonable expectation isn’t such. I have too many checking accounts in China. Unlike what you seem to expect, all I have to do is stuff in the book one last time into the ATM to make sure nothing’s pending and then I go and close the account. Nothing will go through if it doesn’t show up on the register because transactions go through here just like that.

    @craptastico: I see where you’re coming from there- as far as they can see the charge hit when the account was no longer open even though it was supposed to happen when the account was still open.
    And China-issued debit cards, even from Citibank, don’t have this problem, like I said above. If I swipe in America (though due to the inter-network agreement I’m limited to the Discover network- oh joy) the transaction shows up a little slower than a domestic transaction, but it still doesn’t take DAYS.
    (Maybe it’s just sour grapes- I’m an AU on my cousin’s Discover card but I barely touch it due to not being able to pay for my use afterward -or rather, not being able to without a good portion of it disappearing due to int’l wire fees- and I can’t get a local credit card due to not having a work visa)

  42. Kimaroo - 100% Pure Natural Kitteh says:

    @KreativeHitman13: Oh of course.. every single NSF situation is the consumer’s fault.. because banks never ever make errors.. and merchants never ever double charge or anything crazy like that.

    And here I was agreeing with you until this post.

  43. Tim says:

    @KreativeHitman13: Hmm. It seems to me that asking for the fees to be waived was a good idea, since the bank did it. If you don’t want people to ask for the fees to be waived in the first place, why do you waive them when asked?

    Also, yeah, it definitely cost SunTrust $105 to give me what amounted to a one-week loan for $6.27. Shame on me for taking the money they deserve for that privilege.

  44. katstermonster says:

    @KreativeHitman13: You need to chill the hell out. This is the internet – no need to take yourself so seriously. While you’re at it, please take your finger off the shift key. Your internet yelling is giving us all a headache.

    While we’re at it, a waived fee or two never hurt anyone. It’s not always black and white.

  45. macinjosh says:
  46. KreativeHitman13 says:


  47. K-Bo says:

    @jamar0303: If you don’t keep a register, how do you know that the information printed out by the bank is correct? I was taught that keeping a register was as much to catch bank errors as it was to know how much money you have. Easier than trying to remember ever <$5 transaction you make.

  48. h3llc4t, breaker of office dress codes says:

    @Kimaroo – Fortified with Kittydus Purrularis: +1
    The vitriol is strong with this one.

  49. dragonfire81 says:

    And if those loans never get paid back?

  50. floraposte says:

    @h3llc4t, breaker of office dress codes: Yeah, the stuck capslock key didn’t help much either.

    Maybe this falls under “Why people hate banks”–even when they’ve got a justifiable position, they have to become jackasses about it?

  51. jamar0303 says:

    @KreativeHitman13: I just happen to think that “responsibility” is being used as a cop-out for a flawed system here. Maybe complaining about it will do nothing. You’re right, I’m definitely keeping my China accounts for in-person purchases when I move back to America (I happened to move over before I had to start dealing savings accounts, let alone checking accounts, so when I started becoming financially literate I did so in an environment that’s closer to ideal than what I will be dealing with in the future, apparently). I don’t want to be part of a system that can’t even process payments in a timely manner. I will inevitably be dragged kicking and screaming into it (the UnionPay-Discover agreement doesn’t cover online purchases, and apparently few US companies that direct-deposit or direct-debit are prepared to handle foreign accounts unless working for a foreign subsidiary in the country in question) and this is part of that “kicking and screaming”, I guess. Oh, America.

  52. NatalieErin says:

    @KreativeHitman13: I don’t think anyone expects Royal not to pay for the purchases he made, just that the fees he’s being assessed or out of line.

  53. SidusNare says:

    @KreativeHitman13: No, I would expect them to return the cheque, and the retail outlet to charge him with a returned / NSF fee, and if you don’t, call the police for cheque fraud and sue.

  54. treimel says:


    Wait a minute–I’m with you 100% that the OP messed up and it is his fault that he’s in this situation; but what’s all this “don’t participate if you don’t like it” stuff–there’s nothing qrong with comparing systems and indicating that the US should change its system. Under your theory, one can’t criticize a system, or advocate for any change, it’s simply take it or leave it. Nothing ever improves with that mindset.

  55. KreativeHitman13 says:

    @NatalieErin: Because its not about two actions. Its about the customer feeling they were mischarged or charged higher than they deserve. If you agree with the bank, then you do. If you agree with the customer, then you do. You cant say they are both right or wrong on one thing. Were only talking about one thing.

  56. floraposte says:

    @KreativeHitman13: Okay, thanks. Whose regulatory authority does it operate under? Is a bank’s participation required to be disclosed, and where?

  57. Stephmo says:

    @KreativeHitman13: You’re explaining this very well.

    There’s a LOT more to this than the OP is letting on. He was probably in ChexSystems before this and he thinks this is the only incident. Otherwise, he’d already have a new bank account (he could have gotten one in that three weeks interim and that’s the only time the new bank would have checked).

    There’s all kinds of OP shenanigans going on…

  58. feckingmorons says:

    @LadySiren: When I close an account I always stop using it, but leave a small amount in there – a few hundred dollars – for a month or two just in case I have missed entering a debit in my register, or in case I forgot to repoint all of my automatic debits.

    The bank paid the item, and he was charged a fee for it. He could have paid the bank the cost and the fee and been done with it. He would rather not pay what are legitimate bills it seems.

    Irresponsible people are denied accounts that require them to be responsible.

  59. KreativeHitman13 says:

    @floraposte: When we open accounts all of our customers are given disclousures that state who and what information we report to outside companies. A privacy disclosure is given that states our participation in ChexSystems and our right to report information to them. The privacy disclose is given to a new customer before they open an account, and before we run any information through ChexSystems and pull a report. ChexSystems is not a government run program, and there are other compaines that are out there that do the same type of business. ChexSystems just happens to be the largest of these companies out there. In that sense it is not regulated like the FDIC would be.

  60. nbs2 says:

    @feckingmorons: It sounds like he wants to pay the bill and fee, but not the additional $11+ nor lose his current account.

    I don’t think that guy is going to get the fees reduced. This isn’t an instance of a customer accidentally overdrafting an exisiting account. As hard as those are to get fees waived on, there the bank has some sort of incentive to make a waiver for continues business. Waiving or reducing fees on a closed account is bad business. Regardless of how many complaints people make, and how bad word of mouth is, people are slow to leave their current banks (i.e. BoA and their record accounts).

    I think he’s SOL on the fees, and will need to try and find a smaller or local bank or credit union that is willing to work with him on getting back in good graces while his check-credit is stabilized. If he moves again in the future, open the new account with minimal fund, and slowly move money over as you pay against it (and destroy the old checks/cards). Give your old account 90 days to make sure that everything has cleared, then move the rest of the money. In the interim, look for recurring charges that are posting. If something pops up after the 90 days, you’ve done your best. If you can afford to keep the money there for 180 day, that would be even better.

  61. KreativeHitman13 says:

    @floraposte: What do you mean by ‘clearing a guarantee’? Do you mean that once the check is made available to you from you bank are you gauranteed to keep the funds?
    Each bank has thier own rules on funds availability. For us, if you deposit a check, we make the funds available from it on the next business day. So today is monday and you deposit a 100$ check. Tomorrow morning you can spend that 100$. However, the bank has not collected the funds on that check. It can take up to a week for the bank to collect money on the check. Monday, you deposit the 100$ check. Tuesday you spend 100$ at the mall. Wednesday or thursday the bank the check is wrote from sends the check back for NSF (non sufficient funds). The 100$ deducts from your bank account, plus a NSF deposit fee. 5-7$ for us.
    Heres an example of the 3 year rule. You get a check from somebody for 100$. The person who wrote you the check forgot to write out the full ammount of the check, but has everything else correct. You write in the written ammount for that person and deposit the check. 2.5 years later the person looks back at the image of the check, doesnt remember that you wrote it in for them. They can have that check returned! You then have the check deducted, and any fees associated with it! So rule, dont change a check, even if its just something simple like putting a dash in the date.
    I hope i covered what your question was about! :)

  62. trujunglist says:


    I think you’re missing the point of the article. The article is saying this dude fucked up, is there any way to alleviate the fees? What you’re asking for is a research paper. Specifics are not necessary, it’s just pointing out something to readers to A) remind them not to be careless when closing accounts and B) be mindful of fees, regardless of their legitimacy, at all times.

  63. floraposte says:

    @KreativeHitman13: Yup, thanks. I was thinking of people who claim that if you just hold the check for 10 days, then you’re absolutely safe because it’s cleared by then. This used to be a regular eBay debate between sellers who shipped upon receipt of the check and sellers who wanted to hold the item for 10 days or so because then they felt safe. While I suspect that probably more checks fail at the earlier stage than the later stage, many of the “what the hell, just ship it” sellers made the accurate point that there was no reasonable shipping date that left you safe from claw-back. (I just bought, and I paid with CC, so I stayed out of it.)

  64. eddieck says:

    @SidusNare: Exactly.

  65. jamar0303 says:

    @katstermonster: +1.
    @KreativeHitman13: At least you’re being informative now. Now I’m starting to see the “method to the madness”, as it were.

  66. katstermonster says:

    @jamar0303: Amazing, how so much good information can be spoiled by being rude. Self-filtering FTW!

  67. macinjosh says:

    @jamar0303: It was just a link to a Simpsons clip that referred to “secret illegal offshore accounts”