If you're going to go off the Apple reservation in the first place, you might as well build your own Hackintosh and buy a retail copy of Snow Leopard, it's much cheaper. A close friend just built roughly the equivalent of their "Open(7)" machine for just under half what they're charging, including his legit retail copy of Snow Leopard. (When I say legit, I mean he purchased a real shrink-wrapped copy from Apple, it's still technically a violation of the EULA to install it anywhere but on Apple hardware.) He probably could have saved another $100 or so if he had any patience, but he had to go buy everything at Fry's on his way home from work once he decided to do it, so he couldn't look for the best price on components.

Before others start whining about the "grow your own" nature of my post, I'd point out that a) you get a machine that's just as legit as the Psystar, b) you save $900+ and c) Apple will probably ignore you building your own, they're not going to ignore some company making money off Apple's work.

(Insert everyone-should-use-Linux rant here)

I like the idea of the Hackintosh; you get to save money and tweak the system to your liking. Apple doesn't get the money for the computer but does get the software money. Apple should allow Hackintoshes as a way to hurt Microsoft's market share. Plus it helps give Apple some geek cred. And I want to see steampunk Hackintoshes.

I did try the Windows 7 RC and liked it; it was faster than Vista (which really should be slang for something, perhaps a vile sex act) and stable. Still, I imagine Snow Leopard will be more user-friendly.

@stormbird: Apple is a hardware company first. They eat a lot of the development cost of their software on the fact you will be buying their hardware.

If you don't believe that, just compare the prices of Apple software vs Microsoft or Adobe.

@stormbird: If apple starts to allow this, they will then need to support drivers for a HUGE amount of hardware. Hardware incompatibility and bad drivers are what cause most problems users experience with window after viruses/malware.

Apple keeping it a closed hardware platfor allows them to better control the experince and keep it a good one.

Basically, if they open it up, their OS wont be nearly as stable any more and they will lose that "cred" they so desperately want and "it just works" will be an even bigger lie than it is now.

So it is very smart of apple to keep that locked down.

@xtc46 - thinksmarter on twitter:

Agreed.

I've built Windows PCs in the past, meaning I pull a bunch of parts together that there is a good chance Microsoft has never tested in this configuration. Often times, windows crashes due to some sort of conflict with hardware.

Apple, by limiting the number of configurations possible, is able to be sure that they ALL will work.

Written from Windows running on a Mac.

It's one thing to modify Apple's software to put it on a computer you are selling. It's another to sell said modified software. Now they are really violating copyright. Are they trying to get shut down?

@xtc46 - thinksmarter on twitter:

No, they don't open it up because their software is the other functional difference between themselves and the rest of the market, and bundling it with the hardare essentially allows them to charge an enormous premium for the software.

Their computers are marked up 100%+ over what the same hardware goes for from other manufacturers. Considering that the hardware itself is essentially homogenous, it is essentially a way for them to make thousands of dollars in profit for every OS sold, rather than the hundreds that MS gets.

I'm not sure how I feel about that, but I recognize that the fact that they get that much per unit is really the only thing keeping them in business.

Apple is a doomed company once consumers wake up and become unwilling to pay the "apple tax."

Where is the apple desktop tower that costs $800-$1500?

The mini is a joke and $600-$800 for that hardware?

The mac is a big rip off you can build a system with the same cpu, bigger HD, X2 the ram, and a MUCH BETTER VIDEO CARD for $1000 less.

@GearheadGeek: I want to build a hackintosh too but I just have no need for one. It will be an exciting weekend project and when I'm done, I'll move on to the next fun thing.

I guess I can always dual boot.

Just buy the computer you WANT and ENJOY using, no matter if it takes you a while to save up for it or not. Get what YOU WANT. I'm sick of the OS fanboyism.

@stormbird: +1 on Windows 7. I have been using the release for a while now (MSDN) and it rocks.

@dohtem: My own Hackintosh is a Dell Mini9, so I have an OSX netbook. If I had it to do today, I'd build it on the Mini 10v so the keyboard would be nicer, but that's the only complaint I have about the machine or OSX running on it.

@dohtem: Heh... My Vista/Ubuntu rig will soon be triple booting with 10.6 as well. Not that I have any use for it currently... I just want to try it.

@stormbird: Jobs tried selling an OS into the off-the-shelf x86 market years ago and failed miserably. The OS itself was solid (in fact it's the ancestor of Mac OS X) but Jobs just couldn't make the business work. I think today he'd probably do a better job of it, but he's probably just not interested in trying that again.

@Joeb5: My Mac Mini is quite a decent HTPC (it's the new one with nVidia graphics, the older one couldn't hack 1080 HD.) I could have built a machine as powerful or moreso for the same price, but it wouldn't have been as silent and that's important for the HTPC. For a desktop "regular computer" the problem is that buyers don't need anywhere near the level of machine that the Mac Pro is.

@Joeb5: The iMac isn't a tower, but it starts at $1199.

If you want a cheap hackintosh follow the article below. I spent about $270 on it including shipping and the thing works just great with normal computing.

[www.uselessninjas.com]

@Anachronism: The price difference for notebooks is nowhere near 100% if you pick truly comparable machines (in terms of build quality and performance... design is harder to quantify, but those unibody chassis sure are sexy.)

Compare for example a Dell Latitude E4300 with the 13" Macbook Pro.

Dell: 13.3" panel, 2.4 ghz Core2 Duo, 160 gig HD, 1 gig RAM, backlit keyboard, Intel graphics: MSRP $1686 on sale today for $1349.

Apple: 13.3" panel, 2.53 ghz Core2 Duo, 250 gig HD, 4 gig RAM, backlit keyboard, nVidia graphics: MSRP $1499.

@meltingcube:
Parts list here:

[secure.newegg.com]

@pecan 3.14159265:
9400m video that uses system ram at $1200 and $1500 also high cost dual core only laptop cpu also no mate screen.

I'd rather look into using an EFIX v1.1 chip which is 10.5 compatible (and does updates well). According to the mfg they are working on snow leopard support at well.

@TheOrtega: Amen to that.

@GearheadGeek:

IIRC, Pystar is installing a shrinkwrapped copy of OSX.

@FDCPAGuy: Some smart people broke open the EFIX chip and found it to be just a jump drive with OSx86 code in it. It's a rip off for something stolen in the first place.

I got a Dell mini 9 back a few months ago and I couldn't be happier that I flipped it to OSX. Everything runs as it should and it performs like a champ at what I need it to do... (Netflix, Hulu, word processing, Skype, and the occasional VLC based video)

It was the best $285 I spent on a new Mac and it draws stares every time I boot it up.

Once I get around to it, I will install Snow Leopard on it, as it's supposed to clear up tons of space on the install size, and frankly, I won't mind getting some of the teensy HDD space back so I can store something on it every once in awhile.

@meltingcube: Yep, cheap indeed...ugly...ILLEGAL...

@TheOrtega: I don't really understand what you're trying to say. A computer is useless without an OS on it that you enjoy using. Why would I fire up windows 3.1 on a quad core computer and plan to use it in the way most modern users would?
Despite my personal dislike of everything Apple, I understand fully why people like Apple products and will admit OS X is not the worst thing I've ever tried to use. This "fanboyism" you speak of is just people doing exactly what you're suggesting, getting a computer they "WANT and ENJOY using".

@lordargent: probably so... what's your point? That is still not in keeping with the EULA.

@TheOrtega: Ah, you're just not man enough to use !

I use an XP skin that makes it look like OSX and cost me nothing.

@ergasiophobiac: TheOrtega might be speaking to people who don't fully understand why people like different products, whether that's Apple, Windows, or Linux.

Personally I agree with you. I don't like Windows (although I admit I haven't had an opportunity to use 7, because I basically only use Windows at work). I try not to rag on other people for their purchasing decisions, even if I don't agree. It's just rude.

For the price of a mac pro or even a imac, you can build a desktop PC with better specs for around half the cost.

Building a hackintosh is not hard but it does take a lot of time. mainly because of the command line and other crap, why cant someone just make a setup disk that does all of the work for you.

most mac os installs require to yto go through linux and run a ton of commands and lots of other stuff. even if you follow the instructions, it takes a long time because there many delays after running the commands so it is almost like having to sit in front of your pc call day working on a install

why cant the people who make linux based os and command line based programs learn about a little something called batch files. if there is a install in which there is only 1 way to do it and you have to run a certain set of commands, make it into a batch file and turn a 70 command task into a single click on a single button press task, or at least add a GUI

while some systems have the hardware to just run a mac dvd and install with no additional work, many systems built to high performance, especially if someone whats a system equivalent to a mac pro but doesn't want to spend the mac pro price (you can build a system with better specs than a mac pro for $1000-1500 less)

either way you are breaking the eula so build your own system and install the mac os on it and hope you never have to do a reinstall. (or better yet, use a partition editor and backup the install in case you ever need to reinstall, you will only have to load up a ubuntu live cd and copy over the backup partition replacing the main one and make it bootable)

@Razor512: forgot to add,

keep in mind that when you head to a place like newegg to pick out parts to build a system with the same or better specs than a mac pro, all of the parts your picking have gone through the retail price markups and yet the system can still come out $1000 cheaper than a mac pro

companies like apple get their parts directly from the manufacture and they also order in very high volumes, this pretty much makes for extremely cheap parts.

if you work at any large companies that order a lot of supplies, you will understand how cheap the items become.

that $400 videocard that you are getting may only have cost the store $50-70 to get

companies like apple have no excuse for their sky high prices.

but other than that, I have nothing against the company, they exploit peoples stupidity.

it is like how 1 pair of sneakers can cost $30 and another cost $400 and they have the same materials, only difference is that 1 of them is named after a basket ball player.

if people are willing to get ripped off then they will get ripped off, and a business would be crazy to not rip them off because it is free profits.

@idip: Is it really illegal? I mean, sure its a violation of a eula, which you could claim is unethical, but a lot of courts find eulas to be not legally binding. Has anyone gone to jail for violating a eula?

so in summary.....you are saying that it can be time consuming to diy hackintosh, apple has no excuse for their prices, but they would be crazy to not rip people off?

@Anachronism: that argument is old and tired, many people have compared computers with the same specs and the "apple tax" is small...given all the software you get, its almost marginal.

Come on. Who are you kidding?

Get the PC.

@lordargent: I'm not sure what that has to do with anything GearheadGeek said... It doesn't matter that the OS was legally purchased; it's the installation of it that clearly and directly violates the EULA.

@dvddesign: I agrree!
I did the Dell mini 9 Mac, Hack and LOVE this little machine!
I even went so far as to buy a "Fruit" logo from eBay and put it over the "other" brand name to make the faux Mac complete.
we have two imacs and a powerbook in our home and this little machine gets used a lot!
I recently took a cross country flight and I also got a lot of stares and questions about this little "MiniMac" as I call it.
Loved seeing the bug eyes and jaws drop.
I think Apple is missing a HUGE boat here by not making a "netbook".

@4hotdog:

i pretty much said that because even though they rip people off like crazy, the fanboys still dish out the money to get it, if people are buying the product at the higher price then it will stay high.

if is like in a store where a item that is not very popular increases in price, and no one buys it because it was not very popular to begin with and within a few days the price is back down to normal, this is the company basically doing something similar to overclocking a computer, they are trying to see how far they can push the market before it fails then they back down a bit (just like overclocking a CPU)
prices go up because people let them go up, once you pay you have automatically voted yes to the price increase, and a few days of voting no (aka not buying the product)

since apple was able to find a way to rip off fanboys to the point of making them pay twice as much for the same system, they made a lot of money. and it only effects the people who are stupid enough to buy the overpriced hardware, I have no problem with them.

It is like setting aside a cliff for people to jump off and kill them self, it is just there and only the idiots will use it (speaking of cliffs, there is one located at Arizona and is 277 miles long and starts with a G, anyway no one is being forced to be ripped off by like 50% the fanboys choose to push their bank account off a cliff that is apple)

PS stores and other companies will only charge what people are willing to pay, as they rather make some profit instead of none.

example:
if the price of gum goes from 25 cents, to 30 or even 35 cents a pack (which is has) then don't buy it and it will go right back down to 25 cents within a few days (too bad too many stupid people accepted the new ripoff price)

@Anachronism: I'm so tired of this empty argument... Just because the CPU, the ram, and the GPU are standard architecture, that does not mean that the hardware is the same. Apple does more hardware engineering than any other personal computer manufacturer. There are big things and little things, but they add up to a big difference. Among the many things introduced by Apple:

* Magsafe power connector for laptops
* Accelerometer based motion sensor in laptops so that if a laptop is dropped it can park the hard drive before it hits the ground
* Firewire
* The Apple multi-touch trackpad (ask anyone who's used one for a couple of weeks, it is far far better than any other laptop trackpad.)
* Unibody laptop construction for small, lightweight, strong laptops
* The Mac Mini - the smallest fully featured desktop computer available not using a low-power processor
* The Mac Pro is a stunning piece of engineering that costs less than similarly configured Xeon powered pro workstations and servers from the likes of Dell while at the same time having far better build quality...

It's NOT the same hardware. It has never been the same hardware. Since Alienware was bought by Dell, there is now no personal computer manufacturer other than Apple doing any interesting hardware engineering. (Alienware did have some very very cool firsts back in their day; it's too bad that the brand is now about nothing more interesting that pretty cases...)

I could go on with my list, but it's nearly midnight and I'm tired.

People who buy Macintosh computers are buying exquisitely engineered hardware running an exquisitely engineered operating system. We don't buy them because they are "cool" or because we are trying to be "hip." We don't buy them because we are "fanbois."

@humphrmi: They didn't fail too bad - the company got bought by Apple for a bucket of cash and then took over the company from the inside... (And yes, OS X is based on NEXTStep.)

@GearheadGeek: My coworker was reading a Lifehacker article on how to install Snow Leopard on a Hackintosh, and discovered that the desktop he'd recently built had almost exactly the same specs. He obviously went home and installed Snow Leopard, said it was the best decision he's made, maybe ever.

@GearheadGeek: Oooooh they changed the keyboard on the Mini 10v??? Thank goodness. I was looking at Mini 9's and couldn't stand how much space they wasted on the sides of the keyboard, and how tiny it was as a result. I went for a refurbed Vostro instead...only $100 more, and I don't get hand cramps, heh. I need a netbook eventually, though. How well does the Hackintosh on that work? Early reports I saw said they couldn't get wi-fi to work, which kind of seemed to destroy the very point of a netbook...

@NatalieErin: I love W7. Love love love. With that said, the first purchase I'm making when I eventually finish school and have money is a MacBook Pro (or whatever concoction they have out then). If you have a chance, give W7 a play. I have no complaints...I just like it for different reasons than I like OSX.

@ergasiophobiac: Whaaaa? I think TheOrtega meant computer/operating system as a whole, he wasn't dissing Apple, just all fanboyism in general. He was trying to say that we should all make choices based on our personal preferences...a point which you just went and ruined.

@Razor512: Really? You go ahead and show me that newegg parts list that includes 2 quad core xeons with 8 MB cache each and 6 GB of ECC ram along with everything else... Have you ever priced ECC ram before? Do you know what you're talking about?

I should never have entered this thread - I'm always nice in my Consumerist comments...

Good night Consumerist - I'm sorry I got riled...

@4hotdog:
Its not really illegal because it violates the eula. The eula grants you a license to use the software, it does not sell you the software. The license is terminated effective immediately if you fail to comply with their terms. One of their terms is you may only put it on apple branded computers.

So, once you put it on a non-apple, you no longer have a license to use it and are running an illegal copy of macintosh. Not that anyone would ever know or that apple would be able to bring you to court over it as long as you didn't start selling them to other people.

Its like that its illegal to bypass copy protection on discs. Who will ever know if I'm just doing it for my own use and not selling copies?

@DreamTheEndless: Death's little brother: "We don't buy them because we are "fanbois."

Well, most of us don't. I'm kind of a fanboi anyway :)

@henrygates: Ewww. That's like putting a cherry pie skin on a piece of moldy cheese.