Inside The TD Bank Meltdown
Think it sucks to be a TD Bank customer this week, especially if you were formerly a Commerce Bank customer? Try being a TD Bank employee. One insider tells what it what was like yesterday on the other side of all those (still) unprocessed transactions and new fees.
Our tipster writes:
For as long as I have worked at TD Bank, I have never seen it even a fraction of how busy it was today. Our external phone lines were busy for most of the day with customers calling us to figure out what was going on. Until about 1:00 or 1:30 we couldn't get balances for customers because the overnight processing wasn't completed yet. When we were back on-line, nothing for the current day was reflecting on our customer's accounts. There was an internal extension to call to get direct deposit amounts and have them made available but we had to keep calling to get through.
On top of that, our new fees went into effect. Despite the news last week that our largest competitors were switching to am overdraft policy that is more customer friendly than commerce's, td bank still went through with a policy that lets debit card transactions overdraw their account (with a $35 fee), puts customers in an overdraft protection plan without their consent ( without telling them how much their overdraft protection will cover), and charges customers a fee even if the account is overdrawn $0.01 and a sustained overdraft balance fee. In addition to that, our cash reserves charge a $5 for every overdraft transfer and will only transfer the amount of the overdraft plus the $5 fee. The statements that our customers now will receive do not give a time or date for checkcard transactions, so we can not convincingly show our customers what transactions overdrafted their accounts. The posting order has changed that the largest check is posted first, which your website and almost every consumer advocate organization has rallied against.
Because we were offline today, our main customer service program would not bring up an itemized list of pending transactions, even though the customers could see it on their on-line banking. The program that our back office uses does not have a function that breaks down the credits and debit totals, or have a list of pending checkcard transactions like the one commerce used.
This was how our day was at td bank today.
(Photo: Umeboshi Panda)
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Comments:
Ugh, TD is - was? - the best bank for my dollar. I wonder, are these problems happening in both the U.S. and Canada?
"The statements that our customers now will receive do not give a time or date for checkcard transactions"
This is 100% false. Ben, did you have ANY way to identify this person as an employee? If they didn't email you using their TD Bank email, take it with a grain of salt.
I'm glad I've moved my money to a small locally headquartered bank.
While I'm not a TD Bank customer, Bank of America processes transactions in the largest-first order. I don't mind that. It also works for deposits, too. If my monthly paycheck and rent check fall on the same day, I'd rather have my paycheck be processed first.
What is a good resource to check out other banks and compare them against one another? Every bank has horror stories but I want to research the hell out of these banks before I go to the trouble to switch from TD Bank.
I'm thinking BoA, but I would like to see how they stack up against the other big ones.
@Dwight K. Schrute: Why would any employee do something so stupid as to send email out via their bank address, when they are doing what bank management might consider whistleblowing?
@Dwight K. Schrute: Two possibilities:
One, maybe the customers see it on their statement but the CSRs can't see it on their systems
Two, maybe they've just changed the statements and removed this information, and you personally haven't received one yet. (They said "now WILL recieve", and "will" is future tense)
Three, maybe you should consider these possibilities before calling someone a liar.
@Dwight K. Schrute: Well, "Dwight", unless you post up your name, title (I assume you work for TD), and email, you're no better a source than the unnamed "bank employee". Besides, why would someone risk their job by attaching their personal details to a tip like this?
Everyone knows that stuff like this on the internet is heresay unless it's from a business' memo/press release, which aren't even always reliable (see Mcdonald's memo from earlier this week).
I think Dalton Chiscolm (angry BofA customer turned Dr. Evil) had the wrong bank...
@kccricket: That's irrational. No landlord will chuck you to the street for a bounced check; too much hassle. He'll smack ya with a NSF fee.
One.
@docrice: Uh wait. You mean he DOESN'T work for a medium-sized paper company in the Northeast?
Next you are going to tell me that video of Matt Damon yelling at Adrian Grenier is fake!
@docrice: You're wrong. Dwight works for a small paper company in Northeast PA. He may be a TD Customer tho...
Nope. not happening in Canada. TD is basically the best bank up here.
@kccricket: Except that doesn't sound like what's happening here. They're processing the largest debit first, meaning if that causes an overdraft, every other smaller debit after does also. More fees for the bank to collect.
@TheKel: If your criteria is to avoid getting shafted by your bank, avoid BoA; after all they pioneered the transaction reordering, screw-the-customer processing scheme.
Where's the FDIC to shut this bank down?
It's not just online/internet banking that's affected; ATMs are affected as well. You can't get an accurate account balance anywhere, and my payroll direct deposit hasn't been reflected, yet debit card transactions have been, causing a cascading effect of overdraft fees. As soon as my payroll deposit is reflected, and as soon as my overdraft fees have been refunded (or heck, even before), I'm marching to the closest branch to close my account. America's most convenient bank my butt!
Just FYI - I bank with TD in Canada (TD Canada Trust) and they're great. I haven't had any problems with direct deposits, bill paying or getting my money when I need it.
I think this is limited to the States, it's unfortunate that it makes TD Canada look bad by association because they are seriously awesome.
I don't know how it normally works, but for my overdraft I've got a $2000 limit and if I use it there's a $3/month fee plus interest (I don't remember the rate, but it's reasonable)
@bikeoid: Off the top of my head, I can think of a lot of not good things about them, but they are all over where I live.
Is Wachovia rebranding as Wells Fargo? That is who my mortgage is with, and I used to work for them (WF in their Home Mortgage division) but there aren't any WF branches in NJ - just Wachovia!
@Skaperen: I agree. Providing their name/work email would be stupid. I'm not saying they should have.
OP = random person saying X is true. Me = random person saying X is false.
That is all.
If all of the allegations are true, then I am so disappointed. I've been a customer of TD for 3yrs, even when it was still Commerce. The reason why I loved them compared to all the other banks I've tried (MCU, NY's biggest credit union, Chase, Wachovia, and Citibank) was because they system was the most transparent and fair for the customer. If I placed a debit card purchase online, for say my phone bill, it would show instantly in my pending transactions with complete merchant info.
The one time I overdrafted was because of a new fee that they imposed. And when I complained, they removed the charge since I'd always been in good standing prior to that event.
I did notice that the purchase order was changed, and yes, they did remove the merchant info while the charge is still pending. I was hoping these were glitches, but am so sad to know this is the new business model. I'll probably just do all my business from ING now, until they piss me off
i am a TD bank customer. im disappointed with the change in policy - but so far i haven't really been affected by the change over. my unemployment posted mid-day, just as they said it would. i guess if my balance was low i'd be worried...
@Confuzius: TD's practices of buying and sticking together good US banks into a bloated corporate semi-monopoly should reflect badly on it.
I'm moving to USAA. I'd join a credit union if I could, but I can't. I also haven't been able to get through to one of the 800 numbers. My only choice (ha! some choice) is to wait it out and get my money the hell out of there as soon as the dust settles. I just hope the dust settles in time for me to pay my bills. This computer glitch could have easily been prevented -- a friend of mine opines:
First of all, banks don't need to do nightly batches anymore. This isn't the 1960's and they don't need mainframes running Cobol. They could do it instantaneously, but they like to wait until midnight when they can run the deposits AFTER the withdrawals so they can collect bounced check ... Read Morefees. ;) Next, they simply weren't prepared. We always had test systems that we tried everything on first. They were apparently trying to save money on systems or experienced developers.
I used to love TD so much, but since this year with their whole system changing I really feel the need to find another bank. And sadly, almost all the banks in my area are the big, shitty commercial behemoths. BoA, Citizens, etc.
I think I am going to have to desperately search for some sort of small private bank and failing finding one of those, go back to the credit union and just keep my savings sitting in TD earning their pittance of interest and maybe just the minimum balance in my checking account. Ohwaitthat'sright, we now have to have a bloody minimum balance in our checking accounts as of this year.
The big banks are good simply from a convenience standpoint- if I'm off somewhere in the country and need to make a payment or access money or deposit money, I know i'm likely to find a branch. The small local banks are just that- local, not even out of state and when I used to bank at the local Credit Union I found that to be extremely annoying for someone who travels a lot and buys online a lot. *sigh*
Has there been any discussion of how this is coinciding with a new, onerous fee for checking customers? $15 if your account balance dips under $100. Oh, also, they no longer credit payroll checks the same day for the full amount. America's Most Convenient Bank (unless you're not rich).
@TheKel: All of the retail "big ones" are bad. Research doesn't help much because policies change rapidly and banks merge constantly. It only takes a few minutes to apply for an account online, so your decision certainly isn't final. USAA, Ally, ING are places to start. Smaller local banks and credit unions might give you good service, but unless they offer high-yield "reward checking" they will generally be backwards and uncompetitive
@Confuzius: TD's practices of buying and sticking together good US banks into a bloated corporate semi-monopoly should reflect badly on it.
Ah geez, is this one of those Dark Quickenings?
@TheKel: Pick a small local bank or a local credit union. The smaller the bank, the better the service, generally. Keep in mind that credit union customers can use any credit union ATM in the US without ATM fees. Small banks will often pay the ATM fees for you.
@moore850: The FDIC closes down banks for having no money, angry customers close banks for having bad service.
Good thing Sam Waterston still has the Law & Order and Old Glory Insurance gigs as "safety" jobs.
@Yurei: ATMS and credit unions - a credit union will never charge a credit union member an ATM fee, no matter what credit union you're part of.
@Confuzius: Me too - I also bank with TD Canada, since making the switch from CIBC 7 years ago. I've had absolutely no problems with my account, so I do think these problems are only in the States, which is a serious, serious shame.
@JNOV: Your friend is right in that banks don't "need" to do these things, but the fact is, they still do run nightly batches on MFs using Cobol. Banking has been as resistant to technological advances as the government, if not moreso.
I can see the tides beginning to turn, however, as Cobol & MF developers retire/die off.
@Dwight K. Schrute: But to turn it around, do you have anything to disprove it? I have a feeling Ben is going to be a tad reluctant to press for proof of identity for semi-obvious reasons.
@Cocotte: No problems in Canada. I'm very happy with their service both phone and in branch. On the other hand, I can see how people get upset when it's their money in question.
@Forest-Whitakers-lazy-eye: I agree! I was a Canada Trust member and I don't recall any huge problems when TD bought them 10 years ago. Of course, they probably still did a lot of things by paper then too.
@misslisa: I'm looking forward to the sea change. In the meantime, I joined the lunchtime run on my local branch and got a real-time balance from the teller (who reports she's been called everything but a Child of God all morning), and I withdrew all my internet monies save $100 just in case something is floating out there that hasn't been debited or credited. ATMs and my online account access are still FUBAR, so I'm going old school and using post office money orders until my new account with another bank is up and running. The line of people waiting to close their accounts was through the door.
@JNOV: As I posted earlier today in the previous article on TD Bank's problems: I'm just smiling right now. I used to be a Commerce customer but my area got the Metro banks instead of TD. The changeover to Metro was a 2 or 3 day fiasco, but the worst of the problems was acct. holders Visa check cards and acct. debit cards not working for a few hours or so in those 2 days. Everyone said I should switch banks and they wouldn't put up with that type of service and that it was a shame that it was Metro instead of TD. Joke's on the other side now, I guess. So glad I stayed with Metro because I now have 7 day branch access and no problems with any of my accts.
I even called Metro after posting this to tell them how happy I am with their service and online banking software. My friend in a TD Bank takeover area has been fuming all week; I reminded her about what she said when Metro took over in my area.
@Cocotte: The whole thing seems kind of strange since TD is usually considered one of the less annoying banks in Canada.
@Eat A Peach: Well, I was never thrilled by the TD takeover, and I wasn't smug about the Metro business. I was unhappy that I couldn't join a local CU when I moved to the area, and Commerce seemed the best choice at the time. Hahahahahaha!
I'm glad things are working well for you, but for those of us barely living hand to mouth, or worse, having your internet monies go *poof* is a shock to the system. As of now, my payroll check has been credited (and withdrawn by me in person), but those bullshit overdraft fees have not been refunded.
Schadenfreud much?
I'm a TD Bank customer, I didn't have any problems, but it's discouraging to hear about them as it grows seemingly every year or so. I started out with Bank of New Hampshire, which was swallowed by BankNorth, which merged by TD... (before that I got pulled along from South Boston Savings Bank to Bank of Boston to BankBoston to Fleet to...) I still have several local branches with pretty good staff, but once my formerly local bank is inevitably gulped down by BoA or something, whatever loyalty I developed over the years has probably dissipated. Why do banks do this? Is there really that much savings or profit from merging operations rather than keeping them separate?
Here's the deal customers! I am a REAL employee at TDBank and you pretty much have little to nothing to worry about. We are NOT bouncing your checks OR charging you fees. If you experience either of these occurances, just call or go to your local branch and these will be rectified.
Oh, and you can threaten to close your accounts and everything (and I really don't blame you, these new fees suck!) but as much as you complain, you're not going to be treated better anywhere else!
I feel for this employee. My advice, update resume, start looking for a better employer.