I think they left out a big one: document the condition of the partment at move-in obsessively--photos, video, the works. Too many landlords seem to treat the security deposit as magical found money when the lease is over; documentary evidence can stop them cold.

I do not own any apartment but homes. I give them cheaper rent and they fix it all (along with paying all the extra taxes). I have some people I had forgotten they (and the house) was rented.

Top or upper-floor units can sometimes be energy efficient, in my experience. During the winter, having someone live below you is wonderful, especially if you have thin floors. I lived on the third floor of a three-story building a few years ago and when the second-floor tenants moved out in the middle of winter, the change in our apartment temperature was noticeable.

If you can stand extra heat in the summer, it can mean decent savings.

Befriending the manager doesn't do much good when they change every 2 months or so..

*Sigh*

7. Make a date with your apartment manager

As a landlord, I find that an attractive tenant who makes a date with me tends to have much more leeway on terms and amenities than one who doesn't.

What, not that kind of "date"? Nevermind...

@veg-o-matic: I believe that such units tend to be less burglary-prone as well. (Though I was burglarized on the 8th floor of a 15 story building, so it's not foolproof.)

I lived in an apartment a long time ago. I remember waking up one morning to find my car on blocks with all the wheels stolen.

I complained to the apartment manager that security was an issue in the complex, and they blew me off. So, I left my car there for a few weeks and posted a giant sign on the top that said something like, "DON'T MOVE HERE. THIS COULD HAPPEN TO YOU!" My unit was located directly in front of the sales office. Before you know it, I scored a free garage for about a year until I eventually moved out.

Here's another tip, especially for those moving to NYC:
"The Bedbug Registry bedbugregistry.com is a free, public database of bedbug infestations. Use it to check for bedbug reports before booking a hotel room or renting an apartment.

@Scoobatz: Excellent!

@veg-o-matic: Apartments with thin floors often have thin roofs.

I don't know how our old upstairs neighbors could stand it -- their place was always hotter than hell in the summer, and colder than the rest of the building in winter.

@econobiker: Don't know why my reply to scoobatz posted here as I was trying to write:

That you need to document any cleaning done which the complex should have done. Take pictures of under the refigerator and stove which are notorious places for old food, junk and crap to hide. Same as for under sinks and behind drawers in cabinets.

@floraposte: Yeah, it always made me feel safer living above the first floor as well.. but if someone really really wants my collection of European Union policy books, of course they're going to do whatever it takes to get them.

@kateblack: Also true. The house directly across from the one we live in clearly has awful insulation.. every time it snows I can sit at my desk and watch the massive sheets of snow come tumbling off the roof with a thunderous crash. Nice show for us, actually.

@treimel: Insist that the manager / owner do a walkthrough with you when moving into a new place, or failing that, inform them immediately if there are any issues you're concerned that they might try to ding you for down the road. You'll be in a much better position if you can point to an email you sent the day after moving in pointing out an issue they're trying to charge you for. The sooner you learn that the majority of landlords are as crooked as a barrel of snakes, the better off you'll be.

@treimel:

Agreed.

@mizike:

Agreed as to that being a good course of action, but i wouldn't say "most" are crooked, I'd say "many." Still, a little prevention goes a long way. I got dinged for some BS stuff at a move out once--*once*

Make sure you check out an apartment ratings website. You can do all the scoping out of an apartment you want, but when it comes to long-term issues, you won't find that out except from the people that have lived there.

I had a first-hand experience with this. I lived in these apartments near the campus of the University I'm attending. It took 6 calls (the last one being to the apartment manager) to get maintenance to come out and "fix" my heater in the middle of winter. Their "fix" was they showed up with an electric space heater. For an entire apartment. My first month's electric bill for 2 people was $170 (which magically went down to $30 after I flipped the breaker switch for the A/C they said was working "correctly". We never used it).

@treimel: True.. also, in some states, deposit money must be put into an interest-bearing account and documentation given to the tenant.

Ok, all of these points are either completely useless or just plain common sense. Compairing different cable and electric providers to find the best rate? The fact that different neighbourhoods may have different rents? Who would have thought?

I've been renting for many years now and I've never seen a decrease in rent for living on upper floors or specials for moving in. I'd actually be wary of a building offering specials for moving in; you can't fill the building without offering discounts? Granted I live in a "seller's market" where you can easily find a shithole dirt cheap apartment or an obscenely expensive luxury apartment and nothing in between but specials for moving in are just unheard of (as is a discount for living on any floor other than the basement).

Also, your landlord is almost certainly better friends with the city inspector and fire marshall than you'll ever be.

@mizike: Another good tip, especially if you're moving into a gigantic complex: make a copy of your move-in inspection. My roomie and I found a dozen things and put in a long work order when we moved in...and they promptly lost it. And 3 other work orders I put in. I eventually just asked my dad to put a new shelf in my closet, since the one in there was actually falling down when I put a single jacket on it. Ridiculous.

I got good service from my apartment complex in law school by staying in the same place for three years, always paying my rent on time, and not being a problem tenant. They bent some of the rules for me (let me have two cats with only a security deposit for one) and delivered my security deposit the day I moved out, saying they had made it back from me simply because I stayed put for three years and only had two problems, both of which I paid for. (I managed to break a door, which of course I paid for, I was the idiot who broke it, and one of my roommates made a catastrophe that required a cleaning crew and we asked the complex who they used so we could hire the same people.)

I didn't make them chase me down for things like proof of rabies certification. When I changed roommates I was always prompt about setting up an appointment well in advance to get the names changed on the lease so they'd have time to run the credit check. Things like that.

I got the impression over time that people didn't like to pay for their own broken doors and that they spent a lot of time chasing rent checks and rabies certificates and pet deposits and things like that.

We left the apartment in nearly move-in condition; we even asked them for touch-up paint so we could paint over some minor scuff marks. We were generally very pleased with their responsiveness, though we had very, very few problems with the complex or the unit we lived in. (Once had to get the furnace fixed. That was about it.)

(And if anyone in the Raleigh-Durham area is looking for a complex, I would still recommend them if you PM me. :) )

@treimel: I agree, my current landlord is awesome, but it's probably best to assume that any new landlord will be a slimeball until you have reason to believe otherwise.

It also has alot to do with the type and quality of apartment you're renting. The cheaper and older the apartment the more likely you'll have a terrible landlord (cheaper as they won't want to do any repairs, older as it will take them forever to fix anything as there's always be something breaking down).

@mizike: I don't know where you live but move-in specials are common where I am. $99 deposit, 1/2 first months rent, free wifi, etc..

Having experience both as a tenant and a landlord the best advice I can give is to interview carefully. If you want a quiet complex ask the right questions. If you want to live in a pet friendly complex ask the right questions. If you want a complex with lots of partying, night life, drugs, booze, etc... just bugger right off.

Showing the landlord/management that you're organized and that you track everything will help get you everything you need.

I once made an appointment to discuss problems with my rent and surprised the landlord by helping them find a check they forgot to cash but had marked as paid on my account.

I've always received my deposits back.

I even got one landlord to waive the "mandatory carpet cleaning" fee because the carpets were cleaner on the move-out walk-through than when I moved in.

For the move-out walk-through, tell the landlord you want to do it early so you can fix any problems they find (this helps get your security deposit back). Make a list of the problems and give one to the LL and keep one for yourself.

On move-out, give the LL all required docs, the keys and your forwarding address with a note that you've fixed all the issues they found (or a note that there were none) and that they can send your deposit to the forwarding address within 30-days.

8. If your roommate asks if it's OK if his girlfriend stays for "up to three nights" while she's between apartments, tell him in advance if she's there for more than a week, she has to chip in for rent/utilities.

Learned that one the hard way.

@TheWillow:

9. Move during an economic crisis- Renegotiating rent for this year was so much fun... you know it's bad if 4 months ago if you googled "NYC rent decrease" it said: "Did you mean NYC rent increasE?" and now, notsomuch.

10. Additionally, if you move in with a nut, be sure to start chronicling everything ridiculous they do. I fully expect to make a million bucks off of the book that this guy is inspiring.

@captainpicard: Wow, to me that's simply unbelievable. I've rented in several different cities and have never seen anything like that; thanks for correcting me.

I guess I've only ever lived in places where demand for affordable apartments exceeds the supply. Anecdotally the least tenant friendly city I ever lived in had less than 2% availability in the rental market and a law on the books that allowed landlords to set minimum age limits for residents (not tenants, residents; ie., landlords could refuse to rent to people with babies). How that law was constitutional is beyond me, but it made it more or less impossible for single mothers to find a liveable apartment (as if they don't have it hard enough already).

@veg-o-matic: I lived in an illegal third floor during my masters degree - no kitchen, just a hot plate. This sucked for someone who loves to cook. I had no control over the heat myself - but it also meant I had no utility bill. The downstairs neighbor had a new baby, so they kept the heat up nice and toasty (I had previously lived in that apartment so I know how much it cost to heat that floor of the house, and it was $$$$). I reveled in the free heat. Of course in the couple of months between me moving to the third floor and them moving in there were some tough times - the heat got turned off accidentally. In the winter. In Cleveland. I spent a few nights elsewhere while that was resolved.

But normally - not a bad deal. I paid next to nothing for the place, with no utility bills.

@mizike: Virtually every building here in LA has a move in special sign in front of it. It's a renters market at the moment here.

Also, as a former apartment manager, I spent very little time dealing with the fire marshall or the city inspectors. When I took over management (with my ex), we had about 28 pages (legal sized, typed) of city violations that needed to be fixed. We fixed what we could, contracted out many. And then the city inspector came and inspected the progress at some point, before we were done. We said we were not finished. They marked us as not done. At some later date, a different inspector came and inspected again. Point being, there are lots of inspectors.

It's going to be hard for you or your apartment manager to be friendly with them. You or the mgmt. may be able to make A friend in the office, but that doesn't guarantee much.

@subtlefrog: My heat & hot water got turned off in Brooklyn in the winter. For 2 weeks. It was an accident, but the landlord refusing to repair it and trying to trick us into taking responsibility* was not.

*Slumlord was a lawyer (who couldn't pass the bar exam), and knew the law in NY was that if a tenant repairs or hires someone to repair something, they become liable for any damage resulting. She KNEW we didn't know that. Unfortunately for her, we have friends who know more law than she did.

@veg-o-matic: In my complex the top floor units are actually *more* expensive, because they have cathedral ceilings.

My experience is that the most energy-efficient units to live in are the ones on middle floors. With a warm space both above and below you can save a lot on utilities.

@TheWillow: Apparently we are living the same life. On all points.

I don't think you can call yourself a NYer until you've had at least one deranged roommate. This is especially true if you shrug off the constant fear for your life/sanity because you're just not willing to give up the "cheap" rent/great location and continue your living arrangements with Hannibal and invest in a high end deadbolt.

@Scoobatz: Err, but they're not responsible for the streets & sidewalks. You DO know that, right?

@TinkishDelight: Pretty much - it's not that he's evil, just clueless, self-absorbed, insensitive and socially-inept to the point of madness. The kind of guy who wants you to stop at an ATM on the way home if you borrow $20, but makes you remind him for 3 weeks if he borrows rent $$ from you. Or who tells you "you're like, a 6 but if you lose 20lbs you could be an 8 and legitimately, honestly believes it's a compliment... Or who throws his GF who has been living in your apt rent free for over a month a going-away party, gets the cops called on your apt at 3AM and now you have a month-to-month lease because of it, but feels it's not his "fault" because the attendee who got the cops called was invited by a guest and not actually anyone they knew. (and this is just the tip of the iceberg)

........................ But it's in a fabulous location, we got a 16% decrease, my other roommate is the best roommate I've ever had, and it's HUGE. AUGH.

@veg-o-matic: I believe there's also a minimum number of units the landlord must own in order to enforce that.

@subtlefrog: A friend of mine lived in a third-floor apartment in Philly that had the gas turned off (an idiotic renovation somehow resulted in the gas meter for the whole building being considered her responsibility, so she refused to--couldn't even if she'd wanted to--pay). The water heater was apparently electric or on a different meter, the microwave and toaster oven sufficed for cooking, and the ambient heat from the other units kept hers in the low 60s even in the winter.

In graduate school, of course.

@GreatWhiteNorth: Just out of curiosity, if you want a quiet complex, what questions would those be? Most complexes I've visited say they legally can't discuss who lives there, so they can't answer stuff like "Are there a lot of children/college kids?" I guess you could check with the local PD about noise complaints and maybe ask the landlord about how the place was built (brick, drywall, etc.), but nothing's going to stop a neighbor with a sub woofer.

@Trai_Dep: Sounds like it might have been the complex's private lot, though.

@veg-o-matic: For me a top floor is worth it just to not have someone clomping around above me, everything else is just icing on the cake.

@lilyHaze:
It's like he said, though--it varies from state to state.

@Trai_Dep: Not true. How can you make such a silly statement with the limited details I provided in my original post.

This apartment complex had a private drive and parking lots that were owned and maintained by the property owners. It would be equivalent to parking on a driveway in front of someone's house. Err, last time I checked, the township doesn't own my driveway.

Here's a good tip we learned at our last place, which is probably easiest to pull off if you are renting an apartment managed directly by the (local) owner. Even more so if it's an apartment in a house rather than an apartment building by design.

Pull together all those money saving tips for homeowners you will find all over the internet, and ask your landlord to implement them.
Although we were responsible for our utilities, we didn't have access to the actually machinery at our last place.

Each unit had its own furnace, water heater, etc. We asked our landlord to turn down the temperature setting on the water heater and to wrap it in an insulating blanket. We also asked him to insulate the steam pipes for the radiators from where they left the furnace to where they entered the walls in the (unheated) utility room. We also asked him for assistance in sealing cracks around the front door and all the windows to prevent drafts.

We did all this *after* the first month of really cold weather, and we saw over a 25% reduction in utilities the following month, even though it had gotten slightly colder.

Obviously, YMMV if your building has one boiler for all the units or some tips just aren't practical, but it certainly helped us!

@captainpicard: @mizike: I've seen those kind of specials here in DC, but they tend to be for expensive, wannabe luxury places that recently opened and are having a hard time finding people to pay ridiculous rents. (Or what I see as ridiculous: >$2,500 for a tiny studio and not the most metro accessible). Or places that were going to be condos, couldn't find buyers, and need tenants quickly.

I think it's still difficult findning reasonable rent in DC in nice neighborhoods to live in; not many move-in specials if you want something normal.

I try to only rent where all the utilities are included. It saves me a zillion dollars, as well as time and energy remembering to pay several bills rather than just one. With both of us being in computer fields and having monster custom computers running most of the day, in addition to video games, TVs, etc., I can only imagine what our electric bill would be otherwise!

@veg-o-matic: Also check the state laws as to how much of a deposit the landlord can keep if you are there over a year. I had a landlord keep my 2 month deposit for five years because I didn't know I was entitled to get half back after the first year.

Especially have to be wary for the landlord that's renting out places as a "side business" as they may not know all the laws.

@Scoobatz: So if you parked your car in a friend's driveway, you'd hold your friend accountable for someone else stealing your wheels?

@me and the sysop: If I was paying them to live with them, yes I would. That's why you don't rent from friends.

It helps to know your states Landlord Tenant Laws just in case you need to terminate your lease if your landlord is not keeping up with their terms of the lease.

@GreatWhiteNorth: @eelmonger: Most complexes just lie. "Oh, no, we don't have any college students here. [College student walks by, keys themselves into building.] Well, these students come from good families."

I foolishly moved in, but ended up called the cops 4 or 5 times in the year I lived there to shut the students up.